Model Info = Dangerous?
 

ok, Im doing some design work here for a client and I open the CD's up and see the models birth cert and drivers license. Nothing is blacked out on either one.

upon further looking it lists where she lives where she was born, her drivers lic. number and even her moms mailing address.

To me this seems a little bit dangerous for the models safety. I wonder if they know this info is going out to anyone that buys the content.

sonofrage started when he received his content cd :/

well I am sure it has happened before.

I would think the content providers would want to protect there models alittle more than this.

:1orglaugh

It is easy to blank out the contact details.

The answer is don't buy from morons. Or buy from guys in the Czech Republic. We shoot stalkers here. :1orglaugh

Yeah, like really how hard is it to blank her damn address?

:1orglaugh :1orglaugh

It's extremely dangerous, and also illegal to give out personal information like that on the internet. It's also highly irresponsible, in my opinion. In fact, were anything to happen to the model in question (such as murder) that would be linked to the documents with her information, the person who distributed them could very well be charged as an accessory to the crime. It's happened before.

Two of these models even have social security cards supplied with nothing blacked out.

The content provider posts here on the boards so if you read this you might want to start blacking these out.

Yep... Identity theft is not a joke.. I have a good friend who's still dealing with the reprecussions of having his identity stolen, 5 years later. Definitely not a good idea.

Sorry for the noobie question (see post count) but I am confused.

What purpose does blacking out the model info serve if the info is included with purchased sets for compliance reasons? If the info is not made available, would you then need only the record holder info instead to pass compliance inquiries up the supply chain?

I understand the safety issues, and believe in taking every precaution, however, shouldn't the providers require additional verification from webmasters?

Being new to this bidness I prefer to meet the requirements myself rather than relying on another where legalities are concerned.

Thanks for any feedback.

Name names! :thumbsup

Catch 22

You're getting into a big issue.. the ONLY INFORMATION that is NECCESSARY on the id is the DATE OF BIRTH and the picture of the model.. any other information is extra and not neccessary. In fact, 2257 requirements do not EXTEND to model releases. Model releases are between the producer, the model, and the FEDERAL GOVERNMENT, should they require it. Only TWO people need to be concerned with the documents.. that's the primary producer/custodian of records, any secondary producers (such as content providers) that may be involved. . TECHNICALLY all that's required for end users is ACCURATE custodian of records information. Do you REALLY need a model's SIN number to verify her age, when it's right there on her DL? What good is that to you? None, whatsoever. What good is it for her for you to have it, even less.

If content providers extend the option of giving ids (or even releases, which are not really neccessary under the law), giving out the models' personal information such as her home address, phone number, contact information etc, is doing NOTHING to verify her age. If the AUTHORITIES want to see that information, they are referred to the custodian, who can give them UNEDITED information, and THEY can contact the model if needs be. Randomly handing that information out is like putting a knife to a model's throat. Potentially dangerous and damaging, and can invoke criminal charges as I've said before.

Producers, what if a model finds out you are handing out her personal information unedited? That is no less grounds for lawsuit. Keep that in mind.

More reasons to go with a content provider you trust.

I usualy keep my mouth shut...but this and a few other issues have realy frosted my balls so to speak.

I see new content providers all the time, I usualy check them out as sort of a market research as the simple fact is I am a new content provider, and I've found some VERY distrubing shit...

- Total ignorance of 2257 law, what is required what is not required, how to protect your models and yet still stay protected. Alot of the ones I've checked out recently dont even have any form of 2257 information.

- Misquoting of 2257 law by armchair lawers who seem to have enough sence to start a business but not hire an attorney to explain it to them..So they shoot from the hip and are usualy dead wrong.

- Foreign content providers who leave there purchasers on a very thin wire...

Lack of ethics
- My favorite so far a content provider who spams me at least 2-5 times a week has been advertising an obvious bullshit scam in his newletter its obvious this guy is associated with the scam in some manner one of those stormpayl 7.50 to this person and then you get put in a random rotation script that everytime someone does a paypal to that fund it picks a random person and sends them cash...

Oh joy you can also pay more money to get better position on the randomizer...WHAT THE FUCK!!!! Common does anyone left in this busness have ethics. I would love to think that this guy was some random east european nation but no this chowderhead is from the USA, Orlando no less...

Would you buy from a guy who's advertising is out to fuck you over????

And lets not even get into producers who dont know a fucking lighting rig or how to use a light meeter that realy frosts my balls. I'm a video guy I have others shoot my still work, but even in video I know the in's and outs of how to light a scene and due to compression you usualy have to overlight it. Dark shakey movies crappy sound (the best is when the girl makes a high pitched noise and due to the compression and an over at 0db you get this hiss sound that is sure to wake up the wife in the other room.

And these guys out sell me on a daily basis...
FUCK!!!!

Uh.. why don't you contact him/her instead of "hoping" they find this topic and change things?

I love Aaron to death...he may be brash, he may be crude at times but the man gives back at every chance he gets....and frankly im starting to understand where he comes from when he goes off.

http://ampcontent.com/ContentProviders.htm

Thanks, LM, for clearing that up for me. I appreciate the info.

Yep, I definitely feel where you're coming from. Those of us who DO retain proper legal counsel continually fighting with those who figure they have it all figured out. The problem is too, that there can also be several interpretations of some of these laws, so even legal counsel is not infallible. The 2257 laws were insituted more with videos and whatnot in mind, most of them were put in place before the internet.. so that leaves people scrambling to figure out obligations. One of the big problems is end users attempting to take on TOO much responsibility without being aware of the legal ramifications.. I've seen too many newbies putting THEMSELVES as the custodian of records, when all they have is altered copies of docs. Sorry, but that is NOT going to save you in a pinch. And giving out UNALTERED copies to these people is unnessessary and dangerous too. (The only time I would consider this is if someone were to purchase the content EXCLUSIVELY, and that is NOT general distribution. It's for everyone's protection). The custodian of records and the secondary producers generally KNOW their job, and if they're doing it right, they will have your back should an issue arise. Keeping an altered copy of the id around never huts anyone, for sure, but as far as legalities go, it's best to let the people who are legally obligated to do so, do their jobs. If you can't trust your content provider to be there for you, my question is, why are you buying from them?

Ditto on that one.. this is a battle that Aaron has had to fight way too many times.. And he's not doing it for his OWN health. He is of the same mind that we are. An informed webmaster community is a safer one. If we don't police ourselves, keep ourselves informed, the authorities will. Period. He could just as easily let it slide, let people who are ignorant or foolish or just plain lazy take the fall, but he does try to fight the good fight. It's not easy, and it doesn't always sink in. But it's nice to know someone's trying.

You're welcome.. and might I suggest perhaps contacting a lawyer for yourself as well. Don't take my word for it. keep yourself informed. Check out http://www.adultsitelaw.com/ . THere is some wonderful information there for adult webmasters. :)

I see a very disturbing trend that people are buying from those with the best blowout or lowest price and not buying from trusted sources. I'm not talking about this multi thousand dollar mega deals like clound9 or brads company offered or even Pauls bargin basement store but the smaller ones who are pushing it out as "filler content" and people are sucking it up even though the companys are not comeing close to protecting the webmaster, and are producing well crap...

And then this cheesedick from orlando who is running a program that just screams FRAUD then again a fool and his money are easily parted...lord only knows i've been a fool a few times in my life...

Unfortunately too many people HAVE been sucked in by promises of cheap content, and unfortunately when it comes down to it, the content is stolen or doesn't have proper documentation to back it up. Oftentimes, if a deal seems too good to be true, it is.

Word to the wise, if someone approaches you with a "kickass content deal", be wary! Do your research. A reputable company having a content sale is one thing..but if the person is a relative unknown and offers you a deal, check them out! Ask them for proof of documentation, ask them if the pictures are theirs. If they are representing someone else, ask to speak to that person to ensure that the person approaching you has permission to sell the images! If they are honest and legit, they will do their utmost to secure the sale and co-operate fully. If they get dodgy or things looks suspicious, don't waste your money. Saving money on content is not worth having to scrap it all later, or potentially going to jail over. ;)

I have and will continue to do so. It was simply my misunderstanding and noobie paranoia that made me think to cover my own ass as much as possible regardless of the reputation of the provider or knowledge of council. You can only really trust your own interigty.


btw, the content provider listing is great. Thanks for the hard work.

AdultWebGraphics:

Sheesh!! Screwups do happen, but that oversight can be dangerous in several ways!!

We ain't letting any ID's out with addresses, SSI or any data which is not required - can be a source of massive problems for the girls! Hell.. I would not do that to anyone!

Anyone want my ID and some credit card numbers and stuff? :1orglaugh

Absolutely..and the content provider listing is all the work of Mister Aaron Matthews.. Best of luck! :)

You should see the bullshit my friend is going through. He had his identity stolen like 5 years ago, and he has to continually prove that the charges that keep getting laid on him are wrongful because it's not him. New ones are popping up all the time. Poor guy.. I don't wish that on ANYONE, and it's certainly not a way to KEEP models :P

LadyMischief:

Yep! :thumbsup

I read a thread where you explained this - nightmare!!

There is this downside to "ID", (I still have no ID photo cards of any of that stuff - don't want it!), means there is nothing to steal and no crime of "identity theft"!

I knew one person in the US who had a dormant bank account for many years and discovered she owed this bank a good few thousand $. Turns out some ass stole her "ID" and got some checks printed and removed funds from this dead account.

They did a nice job on the signatures... not surprised, - it turned out a bank employee was issuing data on her account to a third party! The money??? Still waiting on that to be replaced four years later!!

Agree with you on models... do that a few times and you lost models! :thumbsup

click on this link 2257 and read that information. also make sure to read the 2256 info and the 1028 information.

Well imagine if the girls knew their info was being handed out to every tom dick and harry? Who WOULDN'T sue? And legally, they would be within their rights...

The law is the law, but there is a lot of grey area here...... When they come knocking on my door asking to see model release information, well, I want there to be no doubt that every girl was over the age of 18 when shot - NO EXCEPTIONS.

Anyone else want to take that chance?

And what chance are you taking with documents that are edited removing things like a model's address, phone number, SS number etc. Those are verifying her age to you? You feel that information should be distributed indiscriminately? It's illegal to do THAT too.. You know she's of age with edited docs, you have custodial information. Potentially endangering her life is unneccessary, wouldn't you agree? Why would one buy from a provider they couldn't trust in the first place?

(Of course I know you guys shoot your own content, and you have your own custodian etc.. As I said exclusive content is a bit different, as information is only given to ONE person. I'm speaking hypothetically here.)

We have had serious, serious problems with our models and stalkers. Also a lot of people do not take model ID seriously.

We had a members party a few years ago. Doorman checked the models ID and then told some of the attending members the models real name (I'm assuming in exchange for a healthy tip). She was unlisted but somehow one of the guys got the address anyway. He showed up a few times. Short story is she had to move and two years later this guy is still very actively trying to find her pretext calling her parents, bank etc. Now we simply don't attend events where our girls will have to show ID. Not worth the risk.

A lot of people who have not had experience with stalkers tend blow off the issue of just how important it is that the absolute minimum of information be disclosed to still legally run your business. Everything else aside if a good scare gets put into a girl you can lose a very valuable model. It just does not make sense to mess around there.

I'm rarely in the mix here, check my number of posts in the past year, but this thread effects every webmaster.

First of all 2257 requires a "custodian of records". If you have a trusted long-term content provider, they handle that for you and you do not need the info. Our biggest clients, TopBucks and SilverCash list their providers for the custodian of records and the providers keep track of all the legal bull. To keep track yourself is a nightmare...every photoset on every site has to referenced by date of shoot, real name of model and stage name of model. We have a full time person that processes and files this info every day for us.

I do not give out our models id's and release's except to our exclusive customers that demand it and most I attempt to explain it is not necessary for them to have it. We only have 2 out of 20 customers that want this. Only when they feel uncomfortable and want the extra security of seeing the 2257 info is when I release it, and then only under the written agreement that it will not be released to anyone else.

We produce a tremendous of content for many of the largest companies in the biz, and our clients reputation is as important to us as their business, 2257 is no joke. I've sent many hot, cute girls home because they only had one ID instead of two...part of the biz.

Content is an important wheel in this business, be sure you work with the guys that do it right. Lighting, hot talent, exciting scenes is all fine and good, but staying legal with our current govt. crackdown is just as important.

my 2 cents :)

What does the federal govt have to do with model releases? Isnt this just a contract like any other? Maybe i am unaware of it, but is there a federal law saying you must have a model release? I dont think so, but tell me if i am wrong.

Absolutely you must have a model release.. that is your insurance! The model release is what indemnifies you if the model produces fake id (it should be somewhere in the release that she is liable if this is the case). The release is the legal document that is an agreement between you and the model that the images are yours, she can't turn around and sue you for using the images after, etc etc etc. Do you think that a company would allow you to sky-dive without signing some form of waiver? I wouldn't take a picture of a girl unless she signed a release and saw her id for myself, and verified that, on the release. That is a legally binding document. Without it, you have the potential of being sued by the model for any number of reasons, all of which will end YOU up in jail. NOBODY has neccessity to see that document, EXCEPT anyone in AUTHORITY (police officers, FBI, courts) who would require this document for verification purposes.

A model release is not something to be taken lightly! This is also the reason that NO MODEL should be under the influence of ANY form of drugs or alcohol while signing a release. This can completely nullify the legality of the document due to what is known legally as "duress", and leaves your ass WIDE open for lawsuit.

Anyways.. Photogregg you have my full thumbs up man. Nice to see someone ELSE stating it aside from Aaron, or us, lol. :)

See sig :Graucho

Where do I sign up!?

Just click the link in my sig :thumbsup