The Final Solution to the Porn Rpoblem
 

Assumptions

Ok, I have been doing some thinking about how to save online porn. I am working from the following assumptions:
1. Online tube sites offering free full length movies free to anyone capable of searching for the term "porn" in Google is what is destroying the industry.
2. Cheap hosting costs have made it cost effective for the large tube sites to remain profitable while letting their users download 100's of mbs of free content.
3. The Global Financial Crisis is a contributing but secondary factor.
4. Cross billing and banging credit cards is a contributing but secondary factor.

Points 2 and 3 are stuctural changes that cannot be addressed. Point 4 is currently being taken care of as the billing companies and Mastercard etc crack down as a result of all the scams that have been happening in mainstream and porn (Acai Berry free trials etc).

It seems to me that point 1 is the one that needs to be addressed. Due to the rules around user uploaded content that Youtube has championed, taking out the tube sites through civil litigation isnt going to be feasible. Furthermore. the tube sites are located in countries that make it hard to sue them.

So here is the solution:

I call it "THINK OF THE CHILDREN". We have to team up with the batshit Christian fundamentalists and nutty anti porn fags and push to have free porn that is accessible to kids banned. We lobby to have all porn only available if it is placed behind some kind of Credit Card Adult Verification. This would basically mean that porn cannot be accessed unless someone pulls out their credit card to pay for it. Owners of sites failing to agree to this would then be criminally responsible for distributing porn to minors. Sites being hosted overseas that fail to adhere to this policy would be blocked at the ISP level. I know this sounds fucking insane and would require a supreme court ruling to overcome the first amendment ramifications, but this is the only feasible way that the tubes can be stopped. The argument that would be presented int he Supreme Court would be akin to: "Well, we are not restricting people's right to

The alternative is you come on GFY.com posting shit like : "ZOMG adapt or die" or "My program haz nevar converted better!". We all know this is horse shit and something needs to be done asap, otherwise this industry will not exist online in 2 years- it will just consist of 5-10 huge tube sites and a bunch of small long tail niche sites doing balloon sex and midget tranny vegetable insertions.

Implementation

How do we do this: start a campaign of letter writing to local politicians telling stories about how kids have been accessing porn and how it is wrong etc. In Australia they are introducing a "Think of the Children" clean feed which will most likely wind up blocking adult content. We need something similar in the usa also to save online porn.

Responses

Here are some responses you can copy and paste below:

Adapt or die, you need to innovate.

We have never converted better than now and are expanding! See Sig!

More traffic for me!

The only problem i can foresee is the fact that the laws only govern the USA, and the rest of the free world will say fuck off. Also anyone with have a brain will move their operations offshore.

But well thought out post and it may put a dent in it.

Getting everyone in porn to band together and push the government to restrict it... The irony and hypocrisy aside, it might actually work.. short of everyone going or remaining offshore.

All tours and preview clips would need to be PG rated.

So are you gonna spearhead the effort??!

Why should we write them letters telling something that is not true? Shall we give up our freedoms.... for money?

I think joining the Christian fundamentalists is a very bad idea. If you look at Australia as example, it's already proven that if you give them one finger, they reach for all. Bit by bit, they will wipe out porn, ALSO paysites. Sites like abbywinters.com is now forced to move their hole company and production to Europe. Same shit would happen in USA, and then you have the same problem as the tube sites.

if one western country bans free porn, meaning no intercourse shown and exposed genitals, most likely others will follow. kids are indeed exposed too much to all this freely available porn plus it will greatly benefit our industry as an added bonus. question is how do we do it? we have no lobbying forces to push it forward.

Utter nonsense ... Germany has banned this already for years now and no other EU country has yet followed, and a lot of German porn companies just moved to the Netherlands and basically nothing changed in the end.

I totally disagree that a solution lays in self-censorship, it will be the beginning of the end of online porn

I am just writing down an idea that I cam up with. What needs to happen here is the tubes need to be shutdown or its all over inside 2 years, probably shorter. This nuclear option is the only way to do that, there is no other way.

As for people saying they can just move offshore, then the solution is that ISPs are required by US law to block domains that are not compliant. I know how extreme this is, but this is the only way that this can be achieved.

That's a dangerous game to play..It could lead to more unwanted regulation within the industry that could hurt or even destroy the current affiliate model.

For example, if you ran a blog, legal tube site or TGP they could argue you're still displaying explicit material without credit card verification. It is very difficult to create "PG" tours for sexually explicit sites.

I agree with all your other points though. However, it is seriously out of our hands. I know you're sick of hearing "adapt or die" but it holds a lot of truth in a sense. You either adapt and accept that this industry is dwindling or you move on. Until new laws / legislation is passed it is not our fight. :(

It just sucks so much that a handful of people have completely raped the industry with tubes. I agree there are some people doing cool innovative stuff: hahahahahahahahahahahahaha with amateur picture sharing and myfreecams.com with cams. But I am not seeing a lot of innovation in stealing a fuck load of videos and making them easily available to even the most retarded surfer.

It will be interesting to see how Rupert Murdoch's pay-gateway-lockdown of his online news sites turns out. Actually porn is in a worse situation than news. What is happening to us is the equivalent of rival news sites just wholesale stealing his premium news content and then reposting it as "user uploads" to avoid litigation.

it is insane so stfu.

That idea would fail instantly. Everyone would move their shit to offshore companies where this law doesn't apply and that would be that.

not reading all that.

I mean adapt, as in make changes and accept the fact you won't make as much in this industry because of the problem. I didn't mean adapt as in create an illegal tube site and be apart of the problem.

The simple fact is the average affiliate/paysite owner HAS to adapt to make money in this industry.

Charge less for your memberships
Promote unique fetishes
Offer free/paid trials
Only offer streaming media

The days of promoting teen porn with a TGP and expecting ratios like 5 years ago are gone. (not at all implying that is what you're doing, just giving an example). :)

There are also ways to use illegal file sharing sites to your advantage. Here is an example. Say you're a paysite owner, register on a site like PornBB.org and RIP your ENTIRE site with image caps but use file sharing links that are inactive. Create your own image host site with banner ads to your paysite. Those megathreads get millions of views, everyone is able to see the content but they're unable to download it. Guess where they go after they can't download it? Think it sounds ridiculous? I've tried it, it works.

The "adapt" part is the competition. You have to adapt to competition. Or die. The infringements, on the other hand, is not fair competition and need to be adressed with harder methods.
Let governments, especially religious or anti-porn organizations, interfere with our competition is never a good idea. Governments should only ensure fair competition, nothing more. Comply or be shut down, is a good idea, but only illegal websites, like child abuse and repeated infringment.

Age verification through credit card will not work. Many adults do not have credit card, so should they be denied watching porn? I think that conflicts with freedom of speech. Anyone should have the freedom to express their sexuality visual, also for free.
I think the only way to protect children, is to label the website with a voluntary filter, and educate adults how to filter on their childrens computers. There are already laws that forbid you to trick children into porn sites, so that issue is not a problem.

I can't see how this is going to stop the tubes though.
If you implement some kind of CC verification why can't it be used by tubes as well ?

Another more serious problem is that it opens up for a wide range of potential fraud.

Things are available to kids because parents give them a computer in their bedroom and know fuck all about what they are doing online. I wish I could have photographed the look on one of my friends faces when she said her daughter had been on this site called Chatroulette and I accidentally called it Knobroulette and then had to explain why :1orglaugh

Teaming up with utter lunatics won't solve anything it will just give them a foot in the door that you can no longer shut in their face.

the problem remains - any kid with a brain can access porn regardless whether their parents use parental controls or not, i actually think a lot of kids are exposed to porn than ever before due to internet and free porn plus the industry is hurting. i would rather see free porn being made illegitimate than the state of industry it's currently on. but i realize that's just wishful thinking at this point.

the 1st ammendment protection is what prevents all the producers from being arrested under prostition laws.


if you are going to successfully destroy the 1st ammendment rights enough to allow this kind of censorship how are you going to stop it from making all porn illegal.

how does 1st amendment fit into play while TV stations are not allowed to broadcast porn in public channels?

i find this funny considering the infringement you are talking about is a government granted monopoly that only allows you to sell your content.

no sexual intercourse and nudity in public places - that's the rule shat should be also applied to public internet. it is no different. nothing to do with free speech

i like the idea...but hard to make it reality
we really need a lobbyist in washington to make things happen

but hard to trust anyone with that power as well, im sure they would only serve the big boys.

another way would be to just have someone send some big boys to some towns here..and break into some houses at 7am and smash legs and arms into many pieces

maybe they decide to close down their tubes :)

I guess I'll be on the "dying" side of the biz...

I am sensing a:
"We have never converted better..." in disguise.

Heres an idea. sell a product worth paying for

Credit Card Adult Verification - interesting idea.

However, a child can still take a parent's credit card.

So many dreamers and it took 15 posts for someone to come up with the reason the idea would fail if we were legislated to put all porn behind a CC verification and blocks those who did not comply. If in the dream world of anti Tubes legislation did happen, the Tubes would charge $1 for a life times membership.

Here's why porn tubes are killing this industry.

1. The customers prefer them to what paid porn offers.
2. They make a profit.

So the real solution is simple and something we can control. Yes we have to adapt or die.

1. Produces sites and memberships at a price the customers will pay for.
Most sites are not what the customer wants for a 30 day recurring membership. If this were not true they wouldn't be choosing Tubes over paysites.

2. Attack the ways Tubes are making a profit.
By giving away or reducing the price of live web cam and dating sites inside the members area. The sponsor and affiliates has already earned from the member and does not need to earn from the upsell. They needs to take away the customers from Tube sites.

Will my solutions mean people may earn less in the short term? Yes, but short term thinking is what got us into this mess.

In the years Tubes have been taking members can anyone seriously say what paysites have done to adapt to the challenge?

Anyone can produce and sell. There are thousands of producers and paysites. They are not a monopoly, but in competition with each other.

there are some huge assumptions in that solution that wax over the biggest problems with why that solution would never be viable.

it's silly to think that anti-porners would work with porners and just as silly to think elected officials would join forces with us as well. not to mention there's nothing from stopping a tube from creating cc verification. not only that, but cc verification is no real proof someone is of age to view porn.

So to summarise:
1. Tubes charging $1 for entry would not affect their traffic much? Well they sure as hell wouldn't be getting 16 million pageviews per day as they are now. It sounds like a good start to me and it would let people know that this shit isn't always free.

2. "The customers prefer them to what paid porn offers." errr yes I think that has been established.

3. "Produces sites and memberships at a price the customers will pay for" Well unfortunately Paul, that figure they are prepared to pay is increasingly $0. As I have said above, any user with the ability to type 'porn' into Google can find the tubes, and once someone has been to the tubes they are unlikely to ever pay again.

4. "Attack the ways Tubes are making a profit." You suggest paysite owners adding things to their members area. I am not sure how this attacks tubes. This wouldn't be so effective if people dont sign up in the first place.

5. "Children can sign up using their parents credit card" Yes, a CC is not 100% protection but I would guess it would be somewhere in the 99% range. When I was a kid, I wouldn't have used my parents CC to sign up. Some measures arent 100% effective but they are implemented anyhow (speeding fines, airport security etc).

6. "anti-porners would work with porners and just as silly to think elected officials would join forces with us as well" It all really depends how it is done. If you introduced yourself as the producer of the movie "Ass Rapers IV" and tell them how you run Gay Felching sites they probably wont want to talk to you. On the other hand, if you were professional about it and lobbied in a smart way, there is no reason influence couldnt be had. This would be a great story for the media - porn professionals who want to stop kids seeing things they shouldn't.

INNOVATE OR DIE!

The only reason the stuff in quality paysites with original content is "not worth paying for" is that people are ripping it off and giving it out free on tubes.

Pass Law Requiring Credit Card verification for age :

That's been tried and failed and there is no reason that I would believe a bunch
of porn masters will make any difference by joining in.

Do what you please, im looking for the next midget tranny vegetable insertion top model :)

let's not forget the entire online adult bidness is based on *free*

galleries/MGPs/TGPs/tours everything.

What you have now is an entire worldwide culture that thinks porn is free. The population has been spoiled and will never, ever part with their favorite free tube site.

Who cares about the 16 million. It's the 1000s who buy we need to target. These are the guys who pay the bills. Remember Tubes exist on those that BUY not those who surf for free.

So paysites need to change. Shorter membership options. More selection. Bigger paysites. And more.

Then all the spin put out by paysites is meaningless. The customer does not want HD, Exclusive, 3D etc. If you're right we might as well close the shop now. You're not right thankfully.

It adds quality and diversity to the members area. Members like to view live action and the message will soon spread that paysites offer a better deal with web cams and dating than Tubes. You say everybody wants it for free and won't want free or cheaper web cams or dating. Which one is it?

Tubes would not survive if you were right. They survive on buyers not free surfers.

This is the stupidest idea I have ever heard. Only way to kill tube site is to cut off their revenue model. Tubes site rely on their advertisers, as long as advertisers keep pumping big dollars, these sites will thrive.

I understand the frustration content generators feel. But just like online music sharing, software or anything that matters, porn sharing will not die. Free porn is an intrical part of internet. So we have to get innovative to protect our content.

Find ways to protect content. If you can innovate an encryption tool that will only allow someone with the key on a registered device to view your content , you have a solution.

Oh why not move towards on demand streaming only. Launch PPV types that will encourage users to pay for what they want to see. As along as you allow people to download content, they will find a way to distribute it freely.

Offer streaming only, look what zune and 100's of other movie sites have done. Or find a way to subsidize your content. FREE PORN & INTERNET are connected at its core and it will not die.

just my two cents

sounds like a good idea to me...
worth a try

If we all move to streaming content the Tubes will fall back on DVDs. They will convert the scenes to FLV and then claim it was user uploaded. This also does not include sites who will give them content and what they already have.

Attacking the source of their income is spot on.

Over the thirteen years I've been in the industry, I've seen this same cycle
repeat several times. Free porn has been here since the beginning, and
since the beginning those trying to earn a living have complained about it.
Several things have been tried, only one thing has worked at all.

As mentioned, new laws have had little effect because they only hurt the industry
in the country that passes the law. This isn't speculation, it's been done.
In the US, Clinton did the CDA and COPA. That scared the _US_ webmasters a bit.
Neither was enforced much before the court struck them down, but we've
seen more enforcement elsewhere, such as what we've seen in Australia.
No law has ever reduced free porn, only made the thieves and webmasters
in that one country a little nervous.

There is one thing that worked somewhat well from roughly 1996-2002 or so.
It didn't eliminate "free" stolen content, but it did keep the problem under control.
Deny them the resources they need - hosting, advertising, banner money, etc.
In those days, the thieves were separate from the legitimate adult industry.
We would not aid or assist them in any way, nor would we tolerate anyone who did.
In that time, the thieves couldn't buy advertising on GFY, because if GFY accepted
advertising from them, GFY would then be considered to be in partnership
with thieves and no legitimate webmaster would have anything to do with GFY after that.

For a time, the thieves couldn't join any affiliate programs, except a couple
run by thieves who would themselves steal from the thieves who were their
affiliates. Legitimate affiliate programs would not accept them. If someone
started accepting thieves as affiliates, all of their legitimate affiliates would leave.
The few programs that accepted thieves as affiliates were scumbags who themselves scammed the user, scammed their affiliates, etc. so they went
out of business pretty quickly.

Same thing with hosting - web hosts would not host the thieves. If they did, the
rest of us had enough integrity not to buy hosting from that company. We'd also
send notices to their upstream provider. The upstream would at some point
figure out that providing bandwidth to that host wasn't worth the hassle.
Besides, if the host has no one but thieves as customers, those thieving
customers often won't pay the hosting bill, and those hosts didn't last long.

Same thing for software, etc. Don't buy or sell anything to the thieves, nor
with the people who consort with thieves. If the thieves can only interact with
each other, they will rip each other off often enough to keep the problem under control.

Not one person reading this can claim that they've done that to the best of
their ability, because you are reading this on GFY after GFY accepted thousands of dollars in advertising from a tube site. So if you're reading this,
you have not done your part.

You're spot on on cutting off the advertising - don't consort with those advertisers in any way,
and let them know WHY you won't promote their sites. Streaming is a huge myth, though.
It took me less than two minutes to go to Google, find a tool to save a stream, download it,
and start saving my first stream. The people who steal the content already have that software
installed, so stealing your stream is just two mouse clicks for them. This is such a rampant
myth, let me repeat - it takes two mouse clicks to save a streaming video to FLV. Streaming
does nothing but irritate the legitimate user who can't see your stream or wants to watch it later.
The thieves, the ones who rip off huge amounts of content, don't give crap whether it's set to stream, save, or play via HTTP. It's all two click for them.

it really to bad that what they are doing is legal under the safe harbor provision

Did I read correctly that the Final Solution is to exterminate the tubes? And both Germany and Dirty Dane's avatar have shown up in this thread?

http://www.gfy.com/image.php?u=29525...ine=1206248337

= more sales. :2 cents:

I seriously doubt there is even one single tube site which meets any of the four major
requirements of the safe harbor provision of DMCA. If they know about the infringement or
should know about it they don't qualify. If they profit from the infringement they don't qualify.
If they fail to register a contact person with the copyright office they do not qualify, and
if they fail to post notice of said registration on their web site they don't qualify. So every
tube site I've ever seen is disqualified four times over. The DMCA, as designed, protects
ISPs, such as your cable modem operator, from being held liable for what you download.

You are a fucking retard.

A) Even if you get free porn banned it would only be a USA law and everyone will just move offshore. Over half the porn already comes from outside the US. So now it'll be 100%. This solves the problem how?

B) You can't block sites at the ISP level. ISPs would fight this. Free speech people would fight it. Any law passed would be tied up in the courts for years. COPA was in the court system for 10 years. And if it did really come to pass, your deal with the Jesus freaks may not only mean blocking "free" porn but end up having them blocking ALL porn. Or requiring those that want access to porn to pay a fee to have it unblocked. Now who is going to pay for porn when they just paid their ISP $10 to unblock porn?

Your "solution" makes 3 phrases pop into my head

A) blowback

B) unintended consequences

C) The road to hell is paved with good intentions.

Think about those before you spout off anymore retarded ideas.

Enforce 2257.


.

qft :thumbsup:thumbsup:thumbsup

good luck with that.