Obamacare Repeal and Replace -- We will have that debate

[Barry-xlovecam]

The Senate voted to proceed to debate on the Republican health care bill. Here?s what?s next »https://www.nytimes.com/2017/07/25/u...re-debate.html

Majority needed to pass 	Yes 	No
Republicans 	                51 	2
Democrats 	                 0     48
Total 	                        51     50

VP Pence cast the tie-breaker ...
Now they will have their debate ...
The acrimony will be blinding and the results?

[Bladewire]

McCain just gave a great speech

[Boozer]

Originally Posted by Bladewire

McCain just gave a great speech

Pretty ironic that a guy who just received government healthcare just voted yes to potentially remove healthcare for millions of Americans.

[Axeman]

Really glad that there will be votes and the Senators have to cast on each. No more hiding.

[Barry-xlovecam]

Elimination of the medical-loss ratio rule


Obamacare requires health insurance companies to spend a minimum percentage of their premiums on medical care for customers, limiting how much they can keep as profits or overhead. A Senate bill would eliminate this rule, letting states decide whether to regulate insurer profits.

Of the seven experts who answered this question, five thought it would not survive.

Obamacare+Trumpcare=Universal Single Payer Healthcare + new taxes in the near future to pay for it. The *cure* is as bad or worse than the disease

https://www.nytimes.com/2017/07/21/u...alth-bill.html

[onwebcam]

Proof positive we are about to get fucked.

[C H R I S]

Oh good this is just for the debate...let the insanity begin. They arent voting for health care, just to take it away. Morons

[2MuchMark]

Yet another fucking sad day for the United States. Un fucking real.

[onwebcam]

Originally Posted by C H R I S

Oh good this is just for the debate...let the insanity begin. They arent voting for health care, just to take it away. Morons

Wrong, they will pas a bill. 100% guaranteed. Stage is set for a royal fucking.

[Paul Markham]

The problem with American Healthcare isn't Obamacare, Trumpcare, etc. It's the American healthcare industry. Nationalise it and get a healthcare system that can cost less.

[C H R I S]

Originally Posted by onwebcam

Wrong, they will pas a bill. 100% guaranteed. Stage is set for a royal fucking.

Yeah they may pass a bill to do away with health care insurance as it is today, they have no replacement,

[The Porn Nerd]

Are more people better off WITH Obamacare or WITHOUT Obamacare?

[Paul Markham]

Originally Posted by The Porn Nerd

Are more people better off WITH Obamacare or WITHOUT Obamacare?

More people are better off with a Nationalised Health Service.

[onwebcam]

Originally Posted by The Porn Nerd

Are more people better off WITH Obamacare or WITHOUT Obamacare?

There is no sense in the discussion because Obamacare is toast. It didn't work. It can't continue on as is. The insurance companies aren't going to bankrupt themselves so they have left it. The few remaining will definitely be bankrupt next year if something isn't done. The government is being sued and WILL lose billions of dollars because they decided to steal the dividends of private investors to fund it instead of funding it through congress.

Republicans will bailout the insurance companies and guarantee them profits with tax payer money to get them back on board, change it up a bit and try another future failure. We will pay for it through high premiums AND taxes because if their profits are guaranteed there will always be a loss.

[MFCT]

Obamacare is the first time in this nation's history that everyone has had free health care. And republicans want to take it away. I think that's mean.

[Paul Markham]

Originally Posted by onwebcam

There is no sense in the discussion because Obamacare is toast. It didn't work. It can't continue on as is. The insurance companies aren't going to bankrupt themselves so they have left it. The few remaining will definitely be bankrupt next year if something isn't done. The government is being sued and WILL lose billions of dollars because they decided to steal the dividends of private investors to fund it instead of funding it through congress.

Republicans will bailout the insurance companies and guarantee them profits with tax payer money to get them back on board, change it up a bit and try another future failure. We will pay for it through high premiums AND taxes because if their profits are guaranteed there will always be a loss.

So people can die to save you paying more in taxes. What happens when it's you?

[Barry-xlovecam]

Sorry, Obamacare is not free healthcare, what planet do you live on -- planet poor people? Yes, if your income is below the poverty line;
$12,060 for individuals, $16,240 for a family of 2, $20,420 for a family of 3, $24,600 for a family of 4, you get Medicaid at the expense of all taxpayers.

If your income is less that 4X this amount you get a pro rata subsidy paid to your insurer.

Repeal and Replace Obamacare went down in flames last night. 43 for 57 against.

https://www.nytimes.com/2017/07/25/u...alth-care.html

WASHINGTON — The Senate voted narrowly on Tuesday to begin debate on a bill to repeal major provisions of the Affordable Care Act, but hours later, Republican leaders suffered a setback when their most comprehensive plan to replace President Barack Obama’s health law fell far short of the votes it needed.

The Tuesday night tally needed to reach 60 votes to overcome a parliamentary objection. Instead, it fell 43-57. The fact that the comprehensive replacement plan came up well short of even 50 votes was an ominous sign for Republican leaders still seeking a formula to pass final health care legislation this week.

For Republicans, the failure ended the day on a sour note, hours after a more triumphant scene on the Senate floor. Lawmakers from both parties had risen to their feet in the afternoon and applauded when Senator John McCain, Republican of Arizona, showed up in the chamber despite his diagnosis of brain cancer. He cast a crucial vote in favor of opening what promises to be a freewheeling, hard-fought debate over the future of the Affordable Care Act.

Three pushing four TRILLION dollars in spending or 1/6 of the GNP is what we are talking about is involved -- about $10 billion spent a day. So, every 10% cost reduction means a lot.

[Wilbo]

It has gotten to the point that the average family can not afford the Obamacare rates. My family of 3 will have to pay $20k a year for insurance, then a $6500 a year deductible per person. So it's almost $27k before I get a penny from the insurance company, and that's if just 1 person gets sick.

[Barry-xlovecam]

Sorry to break the bad news to you -- repealing Obamacare will not lower your insurance rates. I am basically at the same costs -- I agree that it's fucked up.

Let me propose something;

That if you elect to fund and maintain a HSA deposit of $10K you can buy a policy at a lower premium with a $10K major medical deductible. Five visits to PCP and specialty doctors should be included for a $30 co-pay and prescription deductibles should be $1K. At least you would get some annual recurring benefit for the premiums you pay.

I don't know what do do about Medicaid and the unpaid part of the indigent patient loses hospitals incur (the federal government pays some of these costs with taxpayer dollars). These indigent patient costs increase hospital prices to the public and insurers both. So, it is a lose-lose situation.

Curbside pick-up is not a viable option in these cases ...

[tony286]

Actually it will lower some rates because they wont have to follow a standard that ACA had. It will be like it was before people were paying for insurance that basically covered nothing.
Trump lowered my insurance 50 percent he rocks!

Wait what do you mean my cancer treatments arent covered?

Wait since I have a heart condition now,you are going to drop me?

Wait what do you mean I hit my max so no more coverage for me?
Wait hospitalization isnt covered?

But hey Trump got me cheaper insurance. It doesn't do shit but its cheaper.

Most of the people this is going to fuck in the ass the hardest will be Trump voters for the most part. But they will find a way to blame Obama.

[directfiesta]

Originally Posted by Wilbo

It has gotten to the point that the average family can not afford the Obamacare rates. My family of 3 will have to pay $20k a year for insurance, then a $6500 a year deductible per person. So it's almost $27k before I get a penny from the insurance company, and that's if just 1 person gets sick.

That is crazy !!! ... and it shows that the whole healthcare system is fucked up .

As long as the US does not take the steps to remove the profit centers ( Insurrance compasnies, Hospitals corporation ) from the system , you can talk and pass bills of every flavor but it will remained fucked !

[Paul Markham]

Originally Posted by directfiesta

That is crazy !!! ... and it shows that the whole healthcare system is fucked up .

As long as the US does not take the steps to remove the profit centers ( Insurrance compasnies, Hospitals corporation ) from the system , you can talk and pass bills of every flavor but it will remained fucked !

You will never ever get the cost down without changing the way the US healthcare is structured or allowing people to die. I for one would have been dead if the Chemo I got wasn't under the National Health Service here. The ironic thing is it was a test of an American drug. Go figure that one. At the moment it's like who gets in the life rafts on the Titanic. And who gets fucked. With paying double what other countries pay for a better system.

Here it's free, in America it's denied on your insurance.

[Rochard]

Originally Posted by Bladewire

McCain just gave a great speech

McCain just walked out of the hospital and then voted to take away the healthcare of tens of millions of Americans.

[Wilbo]

Originally Posted by Barry-xlovecam

Sorry to break the bad news to you -- repealing Obamacare will not lower your insurance rates. I am basically at the same costs -- I agree that it's fucked up.

Let me propose something;

That if you elect to fund and maintain a HSA deposit of $10K you can buy a policy at a lower premium with a $10K major medical deductible. Five visits to PCP and specialty doctors should be included for a $30 co-pay and prescription deductibles should be $1K. At least you would get some annual recurring benefit for the premiums you pay.

I don't think that would fly. Then they would say the rich aren't paying their share because they are rich. I was against the $600 fines imposed on Americans who elected not to get insurance, but now I think they should make the fine much bigger. More people would pay into the kitty and make it less for everyone else.

[Bladewire]

Originally Posted by Paul Markham

Here it's free, in America it's denied on your insurance.

That's not true Paul

[Barry-xlovecam]

@rochard -- I don't see McCain's vote as a vote to 'take away' anything -- just to debate the issues on the floor of the Senate -- rather clever actually as the vote on the Repeal and Replace lost 43 to 57.

McConnell's plan was for shit -- move on and debate.

@Wilbo -- I think you are really making an argument for some sort of Medicare for all Americans. A single payer governmental healthcare plan. Medicare for all might reduce all of the profit and some of the administrative healthcare costs. The premiums we would pay to the governmental plan *might* be less, the deductibles more reasonable and the benefits better. Instead of paying premiums the alternative might be new taxes.

Employers would no longer buy insurance and *hopefully* employees would be paid more to compensate for the new taxes.

You have do do this with a consumption tax like a VAT tax exempting food, medicine, education and rent. You have to create a transfer tax on personal property like stocks, bonds and real estate -- a small tax 1% or 2% to capture non wage income also to pay for healthcare.

If you buy an expensive care your VAT is 15% or something ...

Subsidizing and supporting the incumbent insurance industry players is a farce.

[CoolMikey]

^^
Or we could just go back to how things were in the pre-Obamacare days. As there was nothing really wrong with healthcare in the US for vast majority of the people.

[kane]

Originally Posted by CoolMikey

^^
Or we could just go back to how things were in the pre-Obamacare days. As there was nothing really wrong with healthcare in the US for vast majority of the people.

Unless you happened to either be poor or have a pre-existing condition.

I have a pre-existing condition. I have had it my entire life so it is not going away. Before Obamacare I was not able to buy insurance because the pre-existing condition disqualified me so I had to pay for a shitty insurance policy that covered big things like heart attacks etc (although I'm sure they would try to say my asthma would have caused the big problem) and I had to pay for all the asthma related care out of pocket which can get expensive. This meant ordering medicine online because it was literally 25% of the cost of buying it at my local pharmacy and just hoping they didn't get delayed at customs.

The system before worked fine if you had a job at a reasonably big company that provided insurance for you (or that you helped pay for). If the company was too small their insurance may not have covered pre-existing conditions or they may not have offered insurance at all. If you were self-employed or you were working for a company that didn't offer insurance or that the co-pays were so high you couldn't afford them, it didn't work so well.

[CoolMikey]

Good chunk of that 15% is probably young people who chose not to buy health insurance, so it's safe to assume that it was an issue affecting <10% of the population.

So we went from an issue affecting <10%, to an issue where half the population is barely content with healthcare in the US, and the other half feeling like they are getting fucked in the ass.

That's hardly progress.

[CoolMikey]

It's also a bit odd that uninsured rate was 10-15% for decades, but now when someone suggests that government subsidizing health insurance might not be the best plan, everyone is bitching and whining as though the sky is falling, claiming that without Obamacare society will collapse and we'll have people dieing in the streets.

[Barry-xlovecam]

Straight Obamacare Repeal Amendment Fails ...

Amendment is for shit >> next!

[onwebcam]

Originally Posted by Barry-xlovecam

Straight Obamacare Repeal Amendment Fails ...

Amendment is for shit >> next!

Just as I figured. Now rush the real plan that no one will be able to read through early next week.

[Bladewire]

Originally Posted by Barry-xlovecam

Straight Obamacare Repeal Amendment Fails ...

Amendment is for shit >> next!

Do you think they'll all fail today?

[onwebcam]

Originally Posted by Bladewire

Do you think they'll all fail today?

There is no all today. The plan is to send the bill to a "3rd party" this weekend to "clean" it and it will go to a vote next week. Repeal and discussion is just a ruse. They already know what they are going to send to a vote. Whatever the healhcare industry wrote for them.

[Bladewire]

Originally Posted by onwebcam

There is no all today. The plan is to send the bill to a "3rd party" this weekend to "clean" it and it will go to a vote next week. Repeal and discussion is just a ruse. They already know what they are going to send to a vote.

They were voting on 4 different Healthcare Bill options today, last I checked 2 of the 4 got voted down today. Full repeal failed & partial repeal failed today.

[onwebcam]

Originally Posted by Bladewire

They were voting on 4 different Healthcare Bill options today, last I checked 2 of the 4 got voted down today.

They will likely all fail unless the real one is among those 4 which I highly doubt. Could be they want to take advantage of the momentum though..... I'm still betting on the original plan. Early next week. Something unseen.

[onwebcam]

The masters have spoken

"The association cited “strong incentives for people to obtain health insurance and keep it year-round,” funding for Obamacare’s cost-sharing reduction program — subsidies that help insurers keep out-of-pocket costs down for low-income consumers — and funding for “those with significant medical conditions” as vital matters for a health care bill to address.

“In order to ensure a stable individual insurance marketplace, any final legislation must include these crucial elements to avoid steep premium increases and diminished choices that would make coverage unaffordable and inaccessible,” the federation of health insurance companies and organizations said in a statement."

Blue Cross Blue Shield Lists ‘Crucial Elements’ Of Any Final O’Care Repeal – Talking Points Memo

Individual mandate will be in the bill that is actually passed. 100% guaranteed. It will be called a "compromise"

"strong incentives" = penalties

[NatalieK]

considering Trump thinks Obamacare has been around for 17 yrs, I don´t think there should be a debate about the repeal or replace, it should be the impeachment of a mentally ill president

[C H R I S]

Originally Posted by GspotProductions

considering Trump thinks Obamacare has been around for 17 yrs, I don´t think there should be a debate about the repeal or replace, it should be the impeachment of a mentally ill president

Stop Making Sense

[GAMEFINEST]

repeal and replace with what?

[AndyA]

And this asshole picked a Supreme Court justice?

[Rochard]

Originally Posted by Barry-xlovecam

@rochard -- I don't see McCain's vote as a vote to 'take away' anything -- just to debate the issues on the floor of the Senate -- rather clever actually as the vote on the Repeal and Replace lost 43 to 57.

I disagree. McCain's vote allowed the "debate" to go on so they can "debate" bills where they have no idea what is in the bill. Last night they had a "vote a rama" where they just voted on bills hoping to get one through.

This is bullshit.

They don't care what the bill is so long as they pass a vote. They just want to win.

Is this what our government has become? Doesn't matter what the vote is, so long as one party can claim a victory? "We'll just toss stuff up there until sooner or later something sticks". Fuck this already. Congress needs to do their jobs. If the Republicans want to beat Obamacare, they need to include the Democrats. It's just that simple. Create a bill for the people, not a bill for the Republican party.

[onwebcam]

Originally Posted by Rochard

I disagree. McCain's vote allowed the "debate" to go on so they can "debate" bills where they have no idea what is in the bill. Last night they had a "vote a rama" where they just voted on bills hoping to get one through.

This is bullshit.

They don't care what the bill is so long as they pass a vote. They just want to win.

Is this what our government has become? Doesn't matter what the vote is, so long as one party can claim a victory? "We'll just toss stuff up there until sooner or later something sticks". Fuck this already. Congress needs to do their jobs. If the Republicans want to beat Obamacare, they need to include the Democrats. It's just that simple. Create a bill for the people, not a bill for the Republican party.

You still don't get it do you?

Republicans are going to SAVE Obamacare. You can call it whatever you like in the end or put a R or a D beside it but it's going to be obamacare 2.0. The ONLY real change that will come from it is more money to the insurance companies.. And no that's not a Republican "rich people" conspiracy. It's Washington as usual. The Health care industry now has a noose around our neck and Democrats put it there. Republicans will pull it tighter.

[AndyA]

Originally Posted by onwebcam

You still don't get it do you?

Republicans are going to SAVE Obamacare. You can call it whatever you like in the end or put a R or a D beside it but it's going to be obamacare 2.0. The ONLY real change that will come from it is more money to the insurance companies.. And no that's not a Republican "rich people" conspiracy. It's Washington as usual. The Health care industry now has a noose around our neck and Democrats put it there. Republicans will pull it tighter.

It's a tax break for the rich they aren't trying to save a 'dying' Obamacare
Richard your a dumb cunt

[onwebcam]

Originally Posted by AndyA

It's a tax break for the rich they aren't trying to save a 'dying' Obamacare
Richard your a dumb cunt

Nope it will be nothing more than a modified version of obamacare. Congress never funded Obamacare. Instead they confiscated fannie and freddie's earnings to pay for it and are now being sued over it. They WILL lose this case. It's well documented. So they have to actually fund obamacare. The insurance companies pulled out because they aren't going to bankrupt themselves keeping it afloat. So the Republicans will change obamacare up a bit add the funding and we have obamacare 2.0.

[Barry-xlovecam]

I don't really *get* the mandate thing at all.

If you don't have cash or insurance to pay for expensive in-patient hospital care how are you going to pay for it?

Whether hospital charges are a fair value or not isn't really the point -- people have to get paid for work or services provided.

If you are uninsured and not covered by Medicaid who do you expect to pay when you can't.

Free curbside body bag pick ups for the uninsured

[onwebcam]

Originally Posted by Barry-xlovecam

I don't really *get* the mandate thing at all.

If you don't have cash or insurance to pay for expensive in-patient hospital care how are you going to pay for it?

Whether hospital charges are a fair value or not isn't really the point -- people have to get paid for work or services provided.

If you are uninsured and not covered by Medicaid who do you expect to pay when you can't.

Free curbside body bag pick ups for the uninsured

The problem with your scenario is there are 2 sets of billing practices. The increased cost price if you have insurance and the cash price. If you have insurance the cost is marked up 5-10 fold. So either way for the most part you end up paying the same. Obamacare has made ALL insurance nothing but high priced catastrophic.

[Paul Markham]

Originally Posted by Rochard

McCain just walked out of the hospital and then voted to take away the healthcare of tens of millions of Americans.

Typical for a politician. In the UK all those who got free University, now want to charge students so much it puts them into debt for decades.

[Paul Markham]

Originally Posted by Bladewire

That's not true Paul

Very true. I got it wrong. If your insurance policy covers you getting experimental treatment, you're covered. Can you afford it?

[Paul Markham]

How many US citizens would like to scrap the system they have in favour of the system the rest of the modern world use?

Most definitely well over 50%. It's cheaper, better and available to everyone who is a citizen of the country.

So why can't you have it, in a democracy you should be able. Big Pharma and their shareholders are stopping you.