User Submitted Content And 2257

[rayadp05]

I have been thinking of adding a message board to the members area of my paysite so that members can upload photos and/or videos of their gfs or wives. I have all of the 2257 docs and ID's of all of the models that I have personally shot but what about user submitted content on a message board? How does that work in relation to 2257?

I did run across this information on an adult webmaster law site -

****You must comply if you ?actually film or videotape? or ?create a digitally/computer image? 2257 content OR
If you ?produce?, ?publish?, ?duplicate? ?reproduce? or ?insert on a computer site? 2257 content
BUT NOT IF you are a ?printer?, ?film processor?, ?video duplicator?, ?merely distribute?, OR ?operate a posting service such as Usenet, bulletin boards and similar services? and remove child pornography from their sites, OR are a web host without right to ?manage the 2257 content?
If you ?cannot reasonably manage the content of the site? by contract or technical reasons you do not have to comply with 2257. ALSO NOT noncommercial (free) or educational distribution.****

Of course, I would consult with an attorney before actually going live with this but from the information listed above, it doesn't seem as if I would need the users to send in copies of ID's and release forms being that I would be operating a posting service in the form of a bulletin board. And again, I would not count on this information as being sound legal advice but I am just wondering if anyone has any knowledge on this at all. I don't know how many people would take the time to scan and email ID's and release forms just so that they can post a photo to a message board. There has to be a way to do this without being in violation.

[lacuna]

From a recent DOJ publication:

How does the rule apply to social networking sites?

Most social networking sites would not be covered by the rule because its definition of ?produces? excludes ?the transmission, storage, retrieval, hosting, formatting, or translation (or any combination thereof) of a communication, without selection or alteration of the communication.? Social networking sites would not then normally need to comply with the rule?s record-keeping requirements, labeling requirements, or be required to maintain information concerning their users, and the rule would therefore have no effect on the operations of the site. However, users of social networking sites who post sexually explicit activity on ?adult? networking sites may well be primary or secondary producers. Therefore, users of social networking sites may be subject to the rule, depending on their conduct.

You can read the full text of it here.

Good luck

[JJdotAM]

Delete anything sketchy right away and it's unlikely you'll have problems. If you consult lawyers let us know what the precedents are (ie specific examples of forum operators getting arrested etc).

[Lassitor]

It's like Craigslist. Nobody gave a shit till people started killing people, ripping out babies from a mothers womb and shit. Then the Feds along with the States threatened Craigslist to clean up and know who is posting in the adults sections.

I see the same for adult user created sites. When someone gets hurt and has the money and prestige to make a stink of it, then the Feds and States will be all over the adult sites demanding that those who submit content verify who they are. Probably will see the same as Craigslist...if you want to submit, you have to tie your account to a cell phone number. Craigslist says that already the amount of post have dropped when they did this so one can except the same for adult content share sites.

Any lawyer with any brains will just advise to find a new line of work. It is only time till the the hammer comes down and a few will be made an example of... so it is a question of when and who.....

[raymor]

Originally Posted by rayadp05

I
[I]****You must comply if you ?actually film or videotape? or ?create a digitally/computer image? 2257 content OR
If you ?produce?, ?publish?, ?duplicate? ?reproduce? or ?insert on a computer site? 2257 content

"Publish" is a specific legal term. It means "to make public to at least one other person by any means ".
It's meaning has been carefully considered many times in libel and slander cases,
where you have to "publish" a false and defamatory statement. The courts have
decided that if you tell something to someone, pass a picture along to them, or
otherwise give any other person a message that meets the definition of "publish".
So you are publishing the content.

Other cases have ruled that it is the web site who duplicates or reproduces content
so that the picture is simultaneously on your server and on the user's screen.
(Mostly copyright cases.) Again the site you quoted says:

Originally Posted by rayadp05

I
[I]****You must comply if you ?actually film or videotape? or ?create a digitally/computer image? 2257 content OR
If you ?produce?, ?publish?, ?duplicate? ?reproduce? or ?insert on a computer site? 2257 content

You are publishing, duplicating, reproducing, and inserting onto your site the content,
so according to that site you must comply.

There has to be a way to do this without being in violation.

Open up any random magazine at the porn shop and they'll have a "submit your
photos" section. It will include a form and instructions that you MUST include a copy
of your ID, etc., and the form(s) must be signed by both the photographer (copyright)
and model (2257, consent). THAT'S how you do it without being in violation of the act.
It's not convenient, but yes there is a way to be legal, and that's by doing what the
law says you must do.

Note that along with the actual statute, the commission also makes "rules" which
give more specific detail. The statutes change occasionally, the rules change often.
In the last few years there have been about six important rule documents.
For each time the rules are changed, there are proposed rules, the actual rules,
and an official explanation of what they decided regarding industry suggestions
and questions, with explanations of why. These are actually just a few pages,
so they are worth reading if you're going to use user submitted content.

As others have said, the specific wording of the statues and rules, combined with
legal definitions, is one thing. The likely consequences of a specific action is another
matter entirely. One of my first law professors defined "the law" as "a prediction of
how the court will decide an issue". The law as passed by the congress is one thing,
but "the law" is really a prediction of what will happen.

I predict that if you have girls who look like they are pretty young, you might have a
problem. I predict that when a girl finds out that her (ex?)boyfriend posted her pics
without her permission, you might have a little problem. I predict that if your site has
"extreme" content, BDSM and such, you may have a BIG problem. I further predict
that when users post tons of copyright protected content they got all over the web
you'll hear from the lawful owners of that content.

If you keep the content mild and deal effectively with copyright owners and pissed
off exgirlfriends, I predict you'll be fine.

[rayadp05]

Originally Posted by Lassitor

It's like Craigslist. Nobody gave a shit till people started killing people, ripping out babies from a mothers womb and shit. Then the Feds along with the States threatened Craigslist to clean up and know who is posting in the adults sections.

I see the same for adult user created sites. When someone gets hurt and has the money and prestige to make a stink of it, then the Feds and States will be all over the adult sites demanding that those who submit content verify who they are. Probably will see the same as Craigslist...if you want to submit, you have to tie your account to a cell phone number. Craigslist says that already the amount of post have dropped when they did this so one can except the same for adult content share sites.

I understand what you are saying but I do not operate a user created site. I shoot all of the content for the site and am in possesion of the required documentation and ID's of all of the girls that are on the site. I have been thinking of adding a message board (as an addition to the members area) that would consist of user created content thus that would be the reasoning behind consulting with a lawyer.

Originally Posted by Lassitor

Any lawyer with any brains will just advise to find a new line of work. It is only time till the the hammer comes down and a few will be made an example of... so it is a question of when and who.....

I would not be consulting with just any lawyer but would be consulting with one that specializes in the adult entertainment industry and that is familiar with 2257 issues. I am familiar with a few that are located pretty close to my area and have consulted with one of them a couple of times in the past. As far as some lawyer out there advising me to find a new line of work - I have been working full time as an adult webmaster for 6 years now and as far as I know, my site has always complied just fine with 2257 - and always will - so I don't see why a lawyer would advise this for me but if a lawyer did advise this, I would walk right out of the law firm and find a lawyer that would be able to assist me on how to be in compliance with 2257 regarding working with user created content because I am not going to be looking for a new line of work. That's for damn sure.

[rayadp05]

Originally Posted by raymor

"Publish" is a specific legal term. It means "to make public to at least one other person by any means ".
It's meaning has been carefully considered many times in libel and slander cases,
where you have to "publish" a false and defamatory statement. The courts have
decided that if you tell something to someone, pass a picture along to them, or
otherwise give any other person a message that meets the definition of "publish".
So you are publishing the content.

Other cases have ruled that it is the web site who duplicates or reproduces content
so that the picture is simultaneously on your server and on the user's screen.
(Mostly copyright cases.) Again the site you quoted says:

You are publishing, duplicating, reproducing, and inserting onto your site the content,
so according to that site you must comply.

Open up any random magazine at the porn shop and they'll have a "submit your
photos" section. It will include a form and instructions that you MUST include a copy
of your ID, etc., and the form(s) must be signed by both the photographer (copyright)
and model (2257, consent). THAT'S how you do it without being in violation of the act.
It's not convenient, but yes there is a way to be legal, and that's by doing what the
law says you must do.

Note that along with the actual statute, the commission also makes "rules" which
give more specific detail. The statutes change occasionally, the rules change often.
In the last few years there have been about six important rule documents.
For each time the rules are changed, there are proposed rules, the actual rules,
and an official explanation of what they decided regarding industry suggestions
and questions, with explanations of why. These are actually just a few pages,
so they are worth reading if you're going to use user submitted content.

As others have said, the specific wording of the statues and rules, combined with
legal definitions, is one thing. The likely consequences of a specific action is another
matter entirely. One of my first law professors defined "the law" as "a prediction of
how the court will decide an issue". The law as passed by the congress is one thing,
but "the law" is really a prediction of what will happen.

I predict that if you have girls who look like they are pretty young, you might have a
problem. I predict that when a girl finds out that her (ex?)boyfriend posted her pics
without her permission, you might have a little problem. I predict that if your site has
"extreme" content, BDSM and such, you may have a BIG problem. I further predict
that when users post tons of copyright protected content they got all over the web
you'll hear from the lawful owners of that content.

If you keep the content mild and deal effectively with copyright owners and pissed
off exgirlfriends, I predict you'll be fine.

Hey, thank's for the detailed reply raymor. I am still not entirely sure if I am going to persue the message board addition to my members area or not....but if I decide to look further into it, I will be sure to let everyone know exactly what the lawyer advised.

[fatfoo]

Now, here's an interesting point.

If you are filming porn of only yourself, you don't really have to make forms I think. Because you don't need a form to give consent to yourself.