Break my daughter's fingers? There no fingers to grab in a rear naked choke. You have between 3 to 7 seconds depending on the person before you pass out from the blood choke. That explains the technique is being incorrectly applied.

A fully locked on armbar doesn't matter if it's a man or a woman, your arm is not stronger than your wife's whole back and hamstring muscles. As for the weight, I'm between 240 to 260 depending if I'm lifting weights, 130lbs male while stronger than a woman, is not stronger than me. Being half my size, my arm cannot beat his whole body pulling on my arm hyperextending it.

By saying she doesn't have the strength to finish you means she isn't doing the technique right. My offer still stands to show the proper technique.

You are 100 percent wrong Bro. Submissions isn't striking. I agree with you a woman won't be knocking a guy the same size out anytime soon, but I disagree that she can't sub him. There is no luck in submissions. Either you get it, or you don't.

Kyra Gracie BJJ Blackbelt vs Larger Male Judo Blackbelt

Skip to about 5:00

Here ya go Doc. Courtesy of the staff at Metro Money. :thumbsup

Quick and easy lesson on how to apply a proper rear naked choke.

You didn't say rear naked choke.. and a choke hold is only that fast if the person walked up and got a full lock on you, straight from the start. You either let her put you in the lock - or you didn't do what you could to get out of it.

You can show her if you want, you wouldn't be the first... It's not like she is throwing herself into the armbar and dropping one on me out of the blue. It's already possible to get out of armbars, so getting out of it with with her, isn't a challenge.

Those two are pretty equal in size... and both males.

The getting a submission vs. a KO, would be the same equal chances of it happening... Chances are, she isn't even going to get a submission hold started, let alone set and locked - just like the KO.

What other choke were you referring too dude? Coupled with you saying armbars, that's the choke anyone would think you were talking about.

I've seen a few instances in my life of someone getting out of a fully locked armbar. You'll forgive me if I don't believe you when you say you can get out of them and have zero submission fighting training.

Ummm, boobs flying out of her gi, and you think she's a male? And she got the submission, winning the match.

Aye, I know what they are... they are a pain to get out of, but breakable, you can slip fingers in to keep blood flowing, bashing your head back, rolling the weight to them, ect all helps... and it almost never goes on smoothly without some block coming in to stop it.

You said fully locked on choke. Everything you are saying is before it's fully locked on. It only takes 30% stoppage of blood to the brain for you to pass out.

Sure it can help before it gets locked on, but once that position is reached, you either tap, or nap.

So you saying you can get out of a fully locked RNC is something I want to see. Hell, I'll put $100.00 bet that you wouldn't get out of one just for shits and giggles.

Naked choke hold is on the ground, wrapped in the person - that you let put on you, isn't what we're talking about. When you said choked you out, I pictured her coming up from behind and putting you in a choke hold.. as I never pictured an 11 year old taking you tot he ground and then getting the advantage on you.

What makes you think I have zero submission fighting training? I'm not BJJ trained, but I've taken years of Shootfighting, even though it's not what I prefer to train in today.. I like to box, I just like to throw elbows too :/

Too funny. :1orglaugh



PS: 50 MoFo's that need a chin kick.

That was a great fucking kick.

I never said fully locked choke, I only said choke hold.

Fully locked was in reference to the armbar.

And you can break fully locked rear naked choke, it's just not easy. I'm more than sure you've trained on how to do it, so I'm not sure why it's not possible for others to do it.

Seagal is trying to "lock in" all the fighters so that they have to make action
movies only with him. :1orglaugh

Damn, either one of those was a girl? That's some scary shit. Again though, I said wife, aka house wife - and did say, not girls that train, which we know can kick ass because of that training, the strength gain, and everything else associated with that training.

For my daughter to learn, she has to do it. Considering she has 4 years of BJJ training, why wouldn't she have my back and apply the choke?

Because you are talking like someone who's never been in a fully locked armbar or choke, really. I hear this all the time from people who have never trained, and only two have ever stepped up from the webmaster community to see for themselves. Both times, I started on the ground on my back, them standing, and both times it ended with me on their backs and them tapping to RNC.

Shootfighting as in what they called stiff albeit fake wrestling? :)

True to some extent. But all things considered, she was lighter than him, and he is a Blackbelt. Gave her some trouble too. I may have used a bad example there, as Kyra Gracie is the Granddaughter of one of the creators of Brazilian Jiu Jitsu.

Ok, semantics really. As in you don't half choke someone.

I've trained to stop the choke before it's fully locked on, but even then it's a fight. Once it's locked on, the defense is to reach up over you head to pull their hand off the back of your head. But then they just transition to the cable grip, and you've been in a blood choke about 2 or 3 seconds. I've seen it once in a professional MMA fight where they got out of a RNC.

Agreed... but no mater what I still think you let her get the advantage.


Shootfighting is a cross between muay thai and submission wrestling - it's mixed arts, learn/use whatever. If you want to learn much of the same stuff BJJ teaches but keep your joints from blowing out as fast, take Shootfighting.

I've tapped on armbars, many times... and on choke holds. Again, we aren't talking about YOU putting ME in one, ie: adult males - we're talking about a house wife putting them on someone like you - and you not letting them.

I'm sorry, I don't believe you that you couldn't get out of it.

No disrespect to you or your wife, but she must have a lame instructor.


I sold BJJ classes for the Machados by having the wrestle girls. Had 3 female ringers that were only purple belts at the time.

Ryan Greg, who is co owner of OTM Fight gear, a current BJJ Black belt with a crap load of trophies and titles will disagree with your statements above. I personally trained him and got him started in BJJ 12 years ago, will tell you himself that i put him and all people who doubted bjj and were interested in the intro classes, to train with a girl and an 12 year old boy.


Both whooped his and all comers asses. Ryan got both arms cracked and he got choked almost unconscious. He did not want to tap out and was in serious disbeilif on what was happening to him by this girl and boy. This guy was 170lbs and a good street fighter (so he said) and wrestled in high school a bit.

The girl that whooped him good was Cathy Brothers and he will admit to it. He is not ashamed of it at all. But it was the true technicality of BJJ the whooped him, not necessarily a girl.


Lastly my close friend Glen Chang, who is a purple belt(135lbs) in BJJ gets tapped out 4 out of 5 times by his wife Jocelyn Chang who is a legit black belt in BJJ (90lbs).



And finally; I may have trained way longer than Anthony in BJJ, but even i have to admit that he knows way more than i do on what is really what when it comes to BJJ and MMA than i do.


He is the true BJJ and MMA Knowledge 3 strip Black belt. :thumbsup

Judo can break a RNC, look toward the choke arm, step wide towards the arm directly, push your hips back, role forward, and over they go - 100% of the time. On the ground, finger slips keep your veins beating in your neck, it's really not that hard to stay awake, it's just a bitch to get out of.

Maybe you need me to train you?

of course I did. We were training. Are you telling me you let your wife just choke you out of the blue?

I'm familiar with them, knew a couple of guys who did SF/Pankration. I was messing with you. Don't know anyone who does SF/Pankration anymore as they have either gone to BJJ or MMA now. [/quote]

Well, now that you quantify it that way, of course not. I'm trained, and you are. But the usual joe blow out in the street, I'm betting the house wife could.

When this is the average joe's skill level, it's not hard to fathom.

A standing choke hold, sure the judo move does work, it's part of the Gracie Jiu Jitsu Defense syllabus. But if I have the RNC on you, you aren't standing, and you won't be moving. In BJJ, it's Position before Submission.

On the ground, I'll put $100 bucks down that while you are trying to get your fingers in a fully locked on RNC, you won't last very long. :)

I know you guys like to suck each others cocks in these mma threads, but my god..... I made it really clear we aren't talking about trained females.

I've said many times, anyone that trains has a serious advantage.... all around. And 90lbs to 135 isn't a weight advantage, 90lbs to a 6'6" 265lb heavy weight is though.

It wont save you forever, but it only has to save you long enough to start trying to break it.

If my wife has that hold on me, I'm getting out of it - if you have it on me, it's going to be hell if not impossible for me to get out of - but I will stay awake a hell of a lot longer than 3-7 seconds. Which is what we talking about here - we aren't talking about me breaking your lock.

No, you made a generic statement, then later backtracked it by saying a housewife. Or it wouldn't have gone this far. :)

You really think that? I'd put my money that your wife, taught the proper technique and form, would make you tap or choke you out cold. Though, I don't know if she is willing to put you through that, as she is your wife. My 2 cents anyways.

She can anytime she wants :thumbsup

That's the point though, you knew it was coming and did nothing to stop it... even when it was on you. So really, an 11 year old didn't get a rnc on you and choke you out, you let an 11 year old get it on you and choke you when you could have easily broken it anytime you wanted.



:)

Isn't mma basically like shootfighting, ie: mixed arts?



B.S. aside you probably never want to put me in an RNC, I get horny as fuck when I'm choked, the harder the choke the harder I get... no b.s. either, no idea why. Even if I pass out, I wake up like a rock.

That's a great video... memories of high school come flashing back.

Don't believe me Doc, take it from a BJJ Blackbelt who's trained longer than you and me combined x 2. He's seen it, done it, got the shirt, and is bored with it.

No, I first started talking about this related to my wife, and I also said untrained females - and said training did make a difference.. And you even replied back to me saying 'your wife' before I made the statements you quoted above. I didn't really think I needed to keep saying my wife, my wife, my wife 50 times over.

I don't disagree with what he said... but what he stated isn't anything related to what we're talking about.

It was training, of course. That was in answer to breaking it after it's locked on. It's my, at the time 11 year old. I could pretty much do whatever I want, but it defeats the purpose of her learning it, and being able to use it. Joe Blow won't know how to defend it.


Well kinda. Bart Vale made up the name when he was being interview about his wrestling back in Japan, pre Pancrase days. He called it shoot fighting. It was open hand strikes at the time, and didn't have the subtleties and technical excellence that BJJ has with submissions and setups.

Auto erotica my friend. With this new information, we will have to go to email to cyber. :):):)

Ok, I see where you are coming from. But my whole thing is that it can be trained, and a smaller woman can and has choked out larger males. Why I offered to teach her. :)


To the point that he, like I were thinking that a trained smaller woman or male for that matter would win over a larger opponent.

Keep in mind, both of us came to this conclusion in this discussion.

Hold on... if you go back and look you'll see this started with me being told a kid could put these moves on you and hold them, ie: all technique..

That's all I'm saying - I know what you did it for, that is understandable - which I did say as well.


Ah, did not know that.. but I have always thought BJJ had far better take downs.



Choking myself doesn't really do it... it has to be done by someone else. :thumbsup

This has been happening to me since I was a teenager.

I don't think you "showing her" is going to get her to do it... if she trains in it, dedicates a few years to it, then probably so.




Do you think a 90lb trained fighter would beat a 250lb heavy weight trained fighter? Male to male... probably not, in most cases.

90lbs to 135 isn't really a difference on trained fighters, and 170lb male to your weight, isn't that much of a difference. You might be a little stronger, but it's not over powering by that much.

Male to female though, I don't out weight my wife by that much - and I can over power her by 100's of times her own strength. She can't pick me up, I can easily pick her up and toss her...

Now maybe if she trained every day for years - I'm sure it would be a greatly different story, because I wouldn't be 100's of times stronger than her anymore.

She's been training BJJ since 9, already knew how to apply it. Training aka sparring with her, gives her the chance to use it in real time against a resisting opponent. I resisted, but only marginally, and let her lock it on. Like your argument the average girl can't do this, well the average guy wouldn't know how to defend it prior to be locked on, nor while they are going to sleep.

The RNC is probably the easiest submission to teach, as it's a high percentage one to use. An effective one entails knowing the little things that make it uber effective, like pushing the head forward with your back hand and placing your face on your hand to create more pressure; squeezing with your whole body like you are hugging them versus just using your arms to apply the choke.

90lbs vs 250lbs, same amount of training, no. There's an old Brazilian saying when it comes to weight classes, and training. "For every belt, add 20lbs."
Belts are: white, blue, purple, brown, black

So a purple belt would be able to handle a weight difference of white belt who's 60lbs heavier, and so on. All due to technique and training.

Without a doubt, same weight the male is stronger. That's why BJJ was created. Helio was 140lbs, and would fight 250lbs fighters, and win. It's about leverage and technique. Six months of training, and she would surprise you my friend, a year and it wouldn't even be funny the ownage she would cause. :winkwink: We've had this discussion before, JustDave says 2 to 3 times a week and you'll get good, i'm more of the 5 times plus a week.

Pretty close to the weight difference you mentioned. The difference between trained and non trained.

Royce Gracie vs Akebono


Another one

Genki Sudo vs Butterbean

The showing her was in reference to my wife, but it works the same with your daughter. She had to train to do it, not really just be shown.



Interesting... never knew that.


oh I know, even once a week boxing training has a hell of a difference over nothing for several months... so doing any type of training 2-3 times a week or daily, is just going to advance the person that much faster.

I have a feeling this Helio fellow was highly trained :)

That is some serious fat dudes... damnnnnnnn. Wouldn't that type of size be a huge disadvantage?

Fat, sweaty, blubber of a body... they would win by default with me.

There's some great BJJ academies I'm sure around where you live Doc!