Fitty painful things to ask :Oh crap

Well, of course I am going to encourage people to buy my product, but there's nothing wrong with that. And to be very clear, I never tell that it's an "investment". We even say so on our site that LiveCamNetwork is a "tool", nothing more. He is also clearly shopping around, so he knows there are lots of alternatives to us. Didn't mean to be spammy; I just have a big forum-mouth. :)

I don't wonder why at all. Some people who get into the webcam (or other adult) biz are blinded by visions of rap music videos and think that adult is nothing more than being surrounded by girls with big tits, limo's, cash and drugs. Even when we tell people that this is a serious business and to be prepared to do alot of work and spend alot of money, their dreamy dreams still take over.

There are alot of people I flat-out refuse to work with. For example, here are some of the calls we have received in the past few months. These are all real.

- "I don't need a computer for this, do I?"

- "Why do I need to advertise if I already have a website?"

- "I want to tell customers its girls but when they go private it they find out they are really chatting with are trainnies. Guys love that shit!! But I don't want to advertise trannies on my site because that would be gay".

- "Where can I put my server so I don't need to get photo ID's of the boys I hire?"

- "I moved to the Philippines because American police won't leave me alone"

- "When people are born in the Philippines they are already at age 1. Therefore I can hire 17 year old girls right?"

- "I'm going to spam 1 Million people. Even if I only get 10% at $100 sign ups that's still $10,000 !!"

- "My 48 year old wife can pass for a teen no problem!"

- "So I'll buy ads on my credit card then stop the payment. Then I'll go to another ad place buy up the ad space and stop that payment too" (..he said while asking me if he could buy our software by credit card)

- "Chargebacks are bullshit! I should be paid even when there is a chargeback. It's not my problem its your problem! I demand you call CCBill and make them change their policy RIGHT NOW or I will sue you!"

- "Can I rebill my customers but not tell them about it?"

- "Can I run recorded videos instead of live feeds? Stupid geek losers who pay for this shit won't know the difference and they're fags anyway"


Noobs, sigh.

So pretty much he is fucked then.

Because according to you, he should only take advice from people who own a cam site or run a studio, but yet those people wont be willing to help a potential competitor. He can take advice from people who offer their products for license, but not if they are trying to sell you on their services (all of them). And obviously everyone else isn't worthy of giving advice. So your advice is that there is no advice to be given ? :winkwink: :)

that's helpful advice. :thumbsup

Sounds like you set the bar at IQ of 60, which means pretty much if they are legal and breathing and have the money you willing to make the sale. Seriously the questions above sound like something a kid would ask. You might want to raise the bar a little higher.

The original poster obviously has no clue what he is getting himself into and has no knowledge what so ever based on the questions he is asking here. Yet you jump in with your advice being, "first, buy a license for my software". That is not the first thing someone in his situation should do. This has fail written all over it and you know it. If he is not the norm that you deal with then how in the hell did you take on "clients" who knew less then him. Which is why you deal with so many disgruntled clients, because you advise them to buy a license and make it sound like "well all you have to do is get some girls, go make an account with company xyz for traffic, and with our software you would be all set." Does it ever work out that way for them???

Again, I don't blame your software or your concept, just seeing first hand now how you jump on people with no clue as if you are the solution they need where there is no shot in hell they ever going to make money, that I blame you for. Especially when you get defensive when people fail and get mad at you, when you take the approach like you do in this thread I think you do share some of the blame when they fail since you were the one to sell them in the first place.

fitty painful pages to follow? :1orglaugh

Maybe you could shed some light on how much profit per ONLINE-FOR-24-hours model the camsite owner makes?

Nobody in the MANWIN=COKE thread can
a/ understand the question
b/ has a clue anyway :Oh crap

I know you are sitting there with calculator primed camgirls and getting ever more frustrated at people not giving you this magic number for your "forecasts", so I will try and put you out of you misery.....

The answer is strangely enough EXACTLY THE SAME as the answer to the question "How long is a piece of string?".

You see there is no definitive answer. It depends on the girl, the site, how many sites she is working, how focused she is that day, how lucky she is that day. What day of the week it is, what day of the month it is even, and oh so many other variables.

One day she may get all of her best customers visit her, another day she may get none.

When I first thought about building a cam site, I spent money on some sites, befriended some models with private and they let me hang around in their rooms most of their shift. When they went into private, I looked at my watch, when they came out of private I looked at it again and noted how much time had elapsed. Over a period of time, with a number of different girls, I came up with an approximate figure upon which to base my calculations and forecasts. It was of course very wrong, but it illustrates why the answer is "how long is a piece of string".

I hope this helps.

Note, people advised me to ignore your posts. Your posts can be confusing, but since 80% of GFY posts are not relevant (spam, obvious stuff, humor, offenses) I give you credit to try to make relevant posts.
Now to answer the apparently easy "how much profit per ONLINE-FOR-24-hours model the camsite owner makes" question, you need to add some parameter.
In particular, 1) what camsite and 2) what model, as if I am giving you an average, that can be 10 times smaller then the top and 10 times bigger then the bottom one, a too large range.
I can tell you that it is not uncommon for cam sites to make "only" 5% to 10% profit over gross sales, due to pay models, traffic (affiliates and prepaid spots or bids), pay biller and bank fees, pay 14%-19% VAT to euro guys (unless you risk a fine as AFF/streamray got years ago), pay hosting and software developers (host+dev it's a small bill compared to others, unlike what people thinks, if you make more then a million dollar per year).
I can tell that there can be shaving on a few whales who spend $100,000 a year alone, so let's "cancel" accidentally from db only 10 signups, 1 signup every 10,000 only, just those who spend 10x$100k a million per year, you save lots of profit, don't you - so honest factor is quite important on your question, how much the profit.
Let's assume a very small cam site have gross sale of $100k a month (equivalent of just 3 of the top blonde myfreecams models sales, or of 300 philipina's, yes ratio is 1:100), the owner maybe make $5,000 to $10,000 profit (before tax, if he pay any, and depends on employees to pay too), or more only if he is an affiliate cheater or could steal another cam site members database without pay it.
Let's assume a small cam site have gross sales of $300k a month, he do maybe $15,000 to $30,000 profit. A medium cam site $1 million a month do $50,000-$100,000 a month (but here very depends by scale economy they do, and if so big maybe full time employed dozen people in an office which cost more then pijama part time home workers half paid with credits to chat models for free). The big cam sites make multiple million sales per month and so multiple $100k's profit per month, but not as much profit as Manwin, I quite guess, altough may move many million dollar's between US/Euro customers into East Europe/South Am/Asia or where affiliates and models are - ah yes to a few in US/Euro too, but come on there is mostly who pay, not who gets $$ in adult.
In general a big cheater affiliate can do more profit then a small honest cam site owner, while a big cheater cam site probably wins about profit against everyone except big tubes, Epassporte fails and Madoff's.

very solid advice

Not at all. Please re-read what I said, which is : "There are alot of people I flat-out refuse to work with. For example, here are some of the calls we have received in the past few months."


Maybe you didn't read what AWC said? In his very first post, he said he has already spent $20k on his studio, that he's looking for Professional & Positive ideas, that he's looking for a Cam platform, that he already has affiliates, will only have 4 girls online at any time but wants to support 20-30 models, that he's building a gym room, bedroom, poledancing cam, and has a 1mb uplink. Sorry Will, but AWC sounds like a pro who know's what he's doing, and he can obviously afford our solution. Of course I am going to talk about ours. If I had a sales rep that posted here and recommended someone else, I'f fire the guy.

Will this is not at all what I tell people. Clearly you didn't read my previous post either. I tell everyone that this takes a shitload of work. It doesn't matter what kind of commercial website you have; you have to work and work hard to make it work. Look at me for example. I run 2 websites - only 2 - and yet I live in front of my computers. Any site owner will tell you that it takes hard work, dedication, advertising and more advertising to make it work.

But dude... I never, ever say, "Buy our software and you'll make money" to noobs. That is pure bullshit. Re-read what AWC posted. He already has Studios + Girls + a website. All he needs now is a video chat + accounting program (like LiveCamNetwork), and then he can begin charging whatever he wants to stream his content per minute instead of rely on the commissions from MyFreeCams. AND, he can even do both at the same time so he doesn't need to put all of his eggs into our 1 basket.



Well ok, that's true I suppose, but then again who wouldn't? What I prefer to do is this : When someone blames our software for their own failings, I try really hard not to take it personally. Instead, I post screenshots, logs, reports, to try to show them (and everyone else) where they went wrong. It's really hard to stay calm and professional while doing it because they just don't want to see the truth, but I try my best.

Anyway, look, let's do this. I think I did a nice job pointing out an option to AWC that he was clearly asking for. Sorry if it offended you Will. Next time, I'll try to post in a more Will-friendly way. Deal?


Have a good weekend.

This is exactly right. There is no way at all to know how much anyone would make with a cam site or even with any particular cam model. There are simply too many variables.

re models, is there a uni in Bournemouth? Find one girl and pay her a finders fee to recruit girls.

too many variables? 5% of revenue?

oh ffs what a joke.

Are you all telling me if

LIVEJASMIN HAS 3000 ONLINE ALL YEAR
STREAMATE HAS 1000 ONLINE ALL YEAR
WEBCAMS HAS 500 ONLINE ALL YEAR

then the profits are not roughly 6:2:1 ?

Bullshit! - just the AVERAGE.

If Cams.com declared GROSS PROFIT of $32,000,000 in 2007
that was with about 300 ONLINE, then if you really want to tell me LiveJasmin.com isn't making 10X that you've got rocks in your head.

Good explanation except the 5%, how do you get 5% when Jamin only pays affiliates 25% and models 40%. That's 35% for expenses, a few hundred servers doesn't cost $350 million per year.

I said it is not the servers or traffic, read better I talked of tax and employees and banks and billers - if you run a company is not easy like a single guy who get cash in an ATM card. I use the same merchant and biller of livejasmin and that does not cost 0% even if it is way less then the 10%+ of ccbill and epoch, and note the alternative billing methods like phone pay eats up to 50% of fee, and a % of livejasmin guys buy alternative biller.

I think Jasmin pay models less then 40%. And about affiliates, most of jasmin traffic does not come from affiliate but from buying spots here and there a fixed fee per month which can be $1000 to $30,000's each per month, multiply this per the sites and that's a not small total money you spend. In my cam site I have just a dozen affiliates which is member areas, it's invite only and then 80% my traffic I buy here and there (and jasmin always booked spots I like more lol). I don't even believe much in the affiliate concept myself, why to share % with affiliates when you can buy traffic spots per period or thousands hits and keep all.

I don't have time to reply back to all of those... but for this one I think you need to reread the thread. He said he just signed a lease and is about to start putting money into fixing up the studio... when he is all said and done with everything this will wind up costing him 20K. Sounds like he hasn't spent that much money yet, other than what the damage deposit / first month's payment on the lease is and what ever he would be sued for if he tries to get out of it.

That is why I told him to stop spending money and find out what you are getting yourself into. Not jumping in deeper without a parachute, buying your software, doing renovations etc. but of course the first thing you would tell him to do is to buy a license from you. :Oh crap

Actually I hope he does. People don't listen around here anyway. no one really wants *advice* they just want to be told what they want to hear. If he buys a license from you then we can check back in 6 months when this flops and hear another great success story.

since you already have it figured out.... why were you asking the question ? :2 cents:

The funny thing is that the OP doesn't have a scooby what you are all arguing about.

I will review few big network of webcam sites from a STUDIO point of view. This is not a profound analysis! All networks have good points or bad points...

MFC - one of the best but we don't work anymore on them because most of the girls migrate from studio to sudio or work from home after they learn how the site works (the registration is very easy). However for some girls is not good because the tipping system can be very hard to get used with.

AWE / Livejasmin - I think it's still #1 . Very easy to signup, fast to have a model online from 5 minutes to few hours (everything online, the only thing i upload its a picture and ID of the model). Also referal system is great for new models, as a studio you get some extra % from the new models you bring on the site (i don't share this with them). I don't use them too much in the last time because the girls always complain about their privacy (its hard to block the country, if you are registered member you can see all girls etc).. Also, being such a big site, there are lot of beggars, guys talk rude to the girls etc

Adultwork.com - pays in british pounds you get like ~ 70% , good traffic, members spend lots of money. Its very litlle known here because they don't have a real affiliate program. For studios it's perfect, after you get a little used with the site interface.

Streamate - Good traffic, but only 30%. Its good to have it there..

Camcontacts - true, they don't have free chat but the site have some of the worst and slowest approval process.. Once i submited 3 different ID's for a girl for being approved on the site (all via email)... Time consuming but the site have very nice and polite members some girls love it.. However, I don't use it anymore

Interclimax - its still there

VS / Flirt4Free - Some friends told me is the #1 for them.

iFriends - Last time i checked the same like Camcontacts (lots of papers)

xLove - i personally don't use them too much, but i saw once stats from a friend of mine, he also run a studio: 14 girls, ~22000 Euros / period.. do the math

iMlive, 20% - 30% chargebacks each period, don't use them anymore because some of the girls accused me i shave their profits

Eurolive - works for some