Normally, you are pretty prescient in your take on things, but this is a bit out there. No one with real assets wants this, and the 1% has real assets.

If they were in the convenient position of being in all cash, then maybe there would be some rationale here. But don't confuse investing in treasuries with the idea that they are completely in treasuries.



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I am not sure exactly what will happen, but it will suck for the whole world if we do!

The top 400 households in the US have wealth equal to the bottom 60% of the country. This money sits stagnant for the purpose of going into trust funds for generations to come.

What's happening to the country and the planet's economies is complex, so old models like recessions and depressions may not work to describe what we are about to experience.

And there are many forces at work - digitalization, communications, population, resource depletion and changes in resource exploitation, climate and biosphere changes affecting agriculture and resource patterns, and most importantly changes in the extraction of fossil carbon.

It's hard to imagine, here in this country, what economic development could genuinely put millions of lower and middle class workers back to work in jobs that pay anything like a living wage.

I expect a pattern not so much like a depression, but instead a very long decline, what we would think of as a endless recession that slowly gets worse and worse for certain classes of society, and spreads as those classes inexorably lose their buying power.

It's possible that some innovation we can't predict now could reverse this trend - and we can propose a few possibilities - but so far there doesn't seem to be any sign of such an innovation taking root anywhere.

Nothing seems to be hitting the US economy right now, anyway.

Anybody see any signs of such an innovation happening?

I float between "not really" and "quite likely".

Things are def not good for the average Joe in the US. Inflation, food costs and most importantly interest from personal debt and thus, the continual necessary large cash flow to keep floating is chewing people up.

It may very well crash. Many think it is coming.

Exactly. In the late 80's early 90's when virtually all manufacturing was overtaken by China it spelled the beginning of the end.

It took 20 years but when you buy all your shoes, clothes, on and on and on from another country eventually they own you.

We are the military bitch going into more debt while China and other foreign countries sit by and make money off us.

We should shut down all military operations and quit actiing like this is 1955. We are a broke ass country at this point.

Something is wrong in a country when prices are the same as they were in the late 80's for most manufactured goods such as electronics, clothes , anything imported, which is everything.

Someone just posted how they come to the US to buy all their electronics, clothes, ect. We are a pig consumer nation (sorry we are) who's currency is turning to crap. Luckily the WW2 gen made good money as a whole.

As a whole we stopped making money in about 1970-1980. An education was worth a lot in the 60s. In the 80s forward it was worth crap as a whole. Mainly due to the loss of manufacturing.

The "consumption period" of the last 65 years is coming to a screaching halt as people cant even afford things at prices 20 years ago.

China would have imposed trade tariffs long ago but we go right along buying everything imported.

It's way out of hand now.

For someone to win, someone has to lose.
As emerging economies develop, existing economies will have to retreat.
Exploitation of one nation is necessary for another to live ostentatiously.

You can't push for fair trade, offshore skilled labour, and fight against worker exploitation in other countries (eg: chinese suicides in IPAD plants) if you want your own country to continue to enjoy the benefits of cheap imports...

Yep. Their killing us. They are the new Superpower for this century.

Notice noone in the US disagrees with one word I said. This is what guys are talking about. We all know there is no real money to be made for the avg guy.

Sure the military industrial complex is making money and certain industries are making money but the masses cant earn a good living and raise a family on most jobs.

You say it has always been tough and only the best survive or rise above? True but when your foundation continues to crumble and the common man is hurting, crime gets worse, upkeep on homes gets worse.. a million things get worse.

So it is getting to the point when it will affect us all. And I am already ready. If I told you what my monthly nut was you would shit. :) Super low.

Thing is, it is getting progressivly worse as time goes on.

isn't that just an illusion? one gets older and sees more, thus, 'gets worse'?

Nicolas Sarkozy will save everyone, including the americans...

That depends a great deal on the standards and models you use to measure it.

Our media speaks coyly of things like a "jobless recovery", declares that the recession according to official metrics ended long ago, and offers charts like this one published today by cnn.

Households lost 16 trillion & between 2007 and 2009.

So, according to that chart, and the stock market, things are better, right?

But last month the economy only added some 50K jobs, and we need at least 150K (roughly) just to stay even with population increase - so we are falling backwards - and have been most months these last 5 years.

And, the jobs being added are lower quality jobs than the working classes would like to have. And many are in "wealth transfer" sectors, like health and government and defense, not wealth producing jobs.

So, like I said, much depends on how you are measuring it.

Hmmmm zero sum game model. http://randomfunnypicture.com/wp2/wp...friday-yes.gif

What happened to growing the pie as opposed to your slice getting thinner as others' get bigger?

Very true. Finances are a very personal thing.

But this is why it is getting progressively worse:

Because we ALL (in the US) are getting further and further from the days when my fathers gen ruled the world (post WW2) and made huge money.

We ALL in the US got trickle down from that. But it wont trickle down forever. It will run out.

This IS the end of the innocence for those esp around 50. We still had it pretty good. We were closer to the money. (I speak as a whole in general as a country)

I feel for the younger gens. You grew up harder and meaner with less fantasy and more reality. You're kids (in general) will have even less fantasy and more of the cold hard world where money will be short.

Disneyland aint cheap. Glad my parents took me when I was 14. Did yours?

In 1946 "we" could have owned Japan, China, Taiwan, Hong Kong, India all of them. But we cut them a break.

Full circle now. Will they cut us a break.

We need a break since the US is now big money corporate US and they call the shots. Presidents are just front men. They are bleeding the little guy dry thru 29.9 % interest and all the corporate bullshit and media brainwashing. They (big corps and NOT mom and pop) are the only ones making money since about the 60's and JFK.

I wish I could really speak my mind.

But whatever. You can talk about this stuff till you are blue in the face. :) There's an old saying for you.

Strange how before WW2 we had terrible times from 1929-41. (Great depression) and before that times were better in the 20's but what could you do in the 20's (prohibition) and things were still pretty tough living and conditions.

Then a few Japanese come flying into Pearl Harber one Sunday morning and changed the course of at least 3 generations.

Before THE WORLD would be able to catch up to us again.

It was a good run. Who will change our course again? The course of generations (WW3) as someone before maybe propheticly posted.

Because that is all that may save us now. We aint gonna beat the Walmarts of the world (Chinamart really)

And I dont blame the consumer. They go where it is cheapest. I blame big banking and corporate greed in many forms for allowing this country's manufacturing segment to be taken from the people.

JFK, FDR and even Lincoln or Washington would NOT have let it happen. They were real men. But the PUNKS the last 47 years since the Cou de ta SOLD us out across the board politically.

You know a small segment is making money and spiting the whole of the country through lobbying and corporate BS.

Our political system sucks. We would be better with one guy in charge at this point. Dictatorship. Cou de ta if it dont work. Eliminate all the corporate special interests.

Give Trump 100% control right or wrong for TWO years, not 4. The other bozos can take a permanent vacation.

They get an F for failure.

No New jobs for the middle class. Walmart & McDonalds for you fluoride drinking fools.

After WW2 the US, Canada and the UK should have formed a new country with one govt.

Named The United States :) Actually we would merge Canada and the UK would be state number 52. What would we have called it. Not United Kingdom naaaaah we would have called it simply England. :)

Kick the Queen to the curb. See ya honey and good riddance.

We saved your ass in 41 or you would be eating sourkraut all day. :)

Now we are calling the shots. Should have put FDR (or was it Truman :) whoever!) in charge of those 3 countries and never looked back.

Made Japan our bitch for a while. :) lol

tell em frank



cause frank sounds good



and of course :)

Fuck it. Just talked to Harry S. He wants all of Europe through Germany. The French wont say jack. Italy wont say jack. North Africa wont say jack. Middle East wont say JACK.

Maybe Russia wants to try and be tough now too. :)

Tell ya what Russia. You fuck up one bit and we all all over you.

But noooooooo we were nice guys.

Teddy Roosevelt gave us the Federal Reserve and when it's charter was up in 1933 his son FDR gave us it permanently. That's just one of the MANY things FDR did wrong during his terms. Most of the history books regarding US politics is more like fiction and FDR's is one of the biggest fiction stories of all. He's the one who stole our wealth by seizing the peoples gold and selling it off to other countries and giving us pieces of paper in return. It was all planned and they were amongst the conspirators. History WILL eventually be re-written.

Thank you. Very good input. I am well aware of the disaster that the federal reserve caused by allowing big bankers and big money like JD Rockefeller and the Queen of England, The (fantabulous) Rothchilds and a few others to in essense start running the show from there on. They were the first members of the board. I am no expert but I have heard enough to know they fucked us over.

That is also when silver certificates were no longer exchangable for real silver or gold. 1934 was the last year of the SC. They took all the gold and put in Fort Knox and gave us worthless paper.

Biggest fuckup ever in American politics. And yes we can thank FDR for kill the SC and Teddy even more. (Ill get it right) Unbelievable.

Fuck you FDR and double fuck Teddy. Sorry I gave you any credit.

OK I read your post wrong. I thought it was back around 1910 when the FR was created. :)

Long time back. We got fucked early. :) JD was dead by the 30's but his money lives on.

It was created in 1913 with a 20 year charter ending in 1933. For 20 years the Fed loaned and charged us more and more interest payable only in gold until the US as we know it was declared bankrupt in 1933. It has been operating in bankruptcy receivership since then. Up until WWI we only owed 1 million in gold. We were drawn into that war and within a matter of years that skyrocketed to 25 million in gold. By 1933 bankrupt owing 100 million in gold.

Ok sorry, so they took the gold and sold it off to other countries to enrich themselves and it was not put it in Fort Knox. Anyhow they took the f'n gold and gave us paper one way or another.

Yes history will be rewritten. Perhaps on internet chatboards just like this. The revolution is on.

The internet is already fucking up the Illuminati and all these other quasi groups like the Free Masons that are also part of the problem but maybe that is another thread. :)

Ever hear of the guy who (allegedly) smuggled a hidden camera to a Free Mason meeting in the Redwoods of Cali? A worker. He seen some weird shit incl satanic and gay behavior by some well known folks I better not mention. Look into it.

Not that gay goes with satanic lol but some politicians who you would not think are gay are in fact flaming. Which is also ok by me. :) But dont be hypocrites.

I can feel big brothers (stinky) breath over my shoulder as I write this. :)

Very interesting. Yes 1913. So we have been bankrupt since 1933 having relenquished all gold to creditors.

Well I guess if The Rothchilds for example financed WW1 then they were entitled to whatever was there.

Shows ya. BIG money goes way back centuries. The Q of E has gazillions doesnt she. :)

Did the Rothchilds or the Q of E repay us for WW2? I suspect no. Maybe throw some of that gold you pillaged from the Roman Empire or all the Countries the English Empire encompassed up till the 1900s and WW1 and throw it to your "boy" (relatively age speaking) and help our ecomomy out. :)

We have got no respect Worldwide since we kicked the Brits ass in the Revolutionary war. Should of went over there and attacked them then. :) How dare them come over here and try to take our shit.

Another time we let one slide.

we took a little bacon and we took a little beans



we fired once more and they begin to running

hup 2 3 4, sound off 3 4

I think part of it is what you said at first and part of it is that T-bills (if that's what he's buying) is safe during a time when the return OF your capital may be more important than the return ON your capital.

In that sense, if that is what he's doing, I agree with him. If he's invested in Bonds, however, he's definitely exposed to risk (interest rate risk). If what most of the people on GFY forecast happens (extreme inflation / hyperinflation / dollar demise), the longer end of the yield curve will precipitously decline in price. Although right now bonds remain strong, something I have pointed out in the face of much of the hyper-inflationary type rhetoric, it seems reasonable to expect declines at some point.

However, that said, collapse of the system the way you are describing it means the treasury obligations, all of it, will be worthless, too. Only in a scenario where all the top wealth was concentrated in cash, unexposed to the US Dollar, would this "group" be able to capitalize on a crash, but I neither think that is possible nor do I think the opportunity that would be created as you describe would be worth the pain, wars, loss of assets wealth, etc that these people would also have to face.


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China has a ways to go before they become a superpower. They have plenty of problems and obstacles to overcome.

It's true they have just edged us out of the top position as manufacturer, but you need to look at what they manufacture and why it is that they do and we don't. (Note: The United States was the world's largest manufacturer, with a 2007 industrial output of US$2.69 trillion. In 2008, its manufacturing output was greater than that of the manufacturing output of China, India, and Brazil combined, despite manufacturing being a very small portion of the entire US economy as compared to most other countries. source)

They are good for manufacturing t-shirts, tennis shoes, widgets and certain components and we are happy to export Dollars in return for importing those manufactured goods. OTOH, they don't excel at manufacturing aerospace, agricultural and construction machinery, communications, chemicals, etc.

It really comes down to per capita GDP. When their per capita GDP rises to 1st world standards, they will be looking to outsource "lower" manufacturing as well. In fact, it is already happening to a slight extent as they are beginning to tap other Asian countries for this.

So where does this leave the dislocated US workers and what should they look to?

Well, evolving technologies and comparative advantage will always cause abrupt changes in economies. If you are low skilled worker, you need to acquire higher skills. If you are in a job that performs purely repetitive tasks (autoworkers on factory lines) which are subject to being replaced by robotics, you need a new skill.

If you are a white-collar worker and perform "middle-man" functions, you are also in deep trouble in the new economy. Taking inventory and bean counting by humans will be a thing of the past. If you are a stock broker, but really just an order taker, you have already been kicked to the curb by online platforms. White-collar workers that fall into these type of categories will either need to find some "value-add" to incorporate or find themselves unemployable.

A lot of this is going to be made or broken based on education, and the US is not doing a great job there. But I think that is what will be required for blue-collar and white-collar workers to succeed in the new economy.



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I imagine you recognize that you are repeating a common line of rhetoric, and that the subtext and context of that rhetoric is still essentially "many of you workers are just fucked and you'd best get used to your new class and state in society.".

There are no jobs or industries that need the millions of unemployed. The jobs with "higher skills" by definition require fewer workers. We have no reasonable chance of creating enough "high skills" jobs, in any realistic time frame, that could hire even a small fraction of teh currently unemployed, underemployed, and unemployable.

Presmumably you know this. Yet you still make the argument.

Yes. But it's not an argument, it's just reality. I'm not making a value judgement, I'm just calling it for what it is. At one time there were a lot of blacksmith's, too. If you disagree that this is taking place, then elaborate.

Also, as I've stated elsewhere when people argue against free-trade, globalization, out-sourcing, etc., there are people who will be dislocated that will most likely have to be addressed by political responses rather than economic ones.

ETA: unfortunately, the US is not currently in a great position to address these dislocated workers because of the fiscal irresponsibility that has been in force for decades.
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Quite likely IMHO. Another carefully thought and provoked depression. Fuckin' bankers.

Next, figure out how to steal all the baby boomers' retirement savings: worthless 401ks, bonds defaulting, deflate the cash value of savings, privatize social security, etc...

They will find a way.:disgust

545 vs. 300,000,000 People
-By Charlie Reese

Politicians are the only people in the world who create problems and then campaign against them.

Have you ever wondered, if both the Democrats and the Republicans are against deficits, WHY do we have deficits?

Have you ever wondered, if all the politicians are against inflation and high taxes, WHY do we have inflation and high taxes?

You and I don?t propose a federal budget. The President does.

You and I don?t have the Constitutional authority to vote on appropriations. The House of Representatives does.

You and I don?t write the tax code, Congress does.

You and I don?t set fiscal policy, Congress does.

You and I don?t control monetary policy, the Federal Reserve Bank does.

One hundred senators, 435 congressmen, one President, and nine Supreme Court justices equates to 545 human beings out of the 300 million are directly, legally, morally, and individually responsible for the domestic problems that plague this country.

I excluded the members of the Federal Reserve Board because that problem was created by the Congress. In 1913, Congress delegated its Constitutional duty to provide a sound currency to a federally chartered, but private, central bank.

I excluded all the special interests and lobbyists for a sound reason. They have no legal authority. They have no ability to coerce a senator, a congressman, or a President to do one cotton-picking thing. I don?t care if they offer a politician $1 million dollars in cash. The politician has the power to accept or reject it. No matter what the lobbyist promises, it is the legislator?s responsibility to determine how he votes.

Those 545 human beings spend much of their energy convincing you that what they did is not their fault. They cooperate in this common con regardless of party.

What separates a politician from a normal human being is an excessive amount of gall. No normal human being would have the gall of a Speaker, who stood up and criticized the President for creating deficits. The President can only propose a budget. He cannot force the Congress to accept it.

The Constitution, which is the supreme law of the land, gives sole responsibility to the House of Representatives for originating and approving appropriations and taxes. Who is the speaker of the House? John Boehner. He is the leader of the majority party. He and fellow House members, not the President, can approve any budget they want. If the President vetoes it, they can pass it over his veto if they agree to.

It seems inconceivable to me that a nation of 300 million cannot replace 545 people who stand convicted ? by present facts ? of incompetence and irresponsibility. I can?t think of a single domestic problem that is not traceable directly to those 545 people. When you fully grasp the plain truth that 545 people exercise the power of the federal government, then it must follow that what exists is what they want to exist.

If the tax code is unfair, it?s because they want it unfair.

If the budget is in the red, it?s because they want it in the red.

If the Army & Marines are in Iraq and Afghanistan it?s because they want them in Iraq and Afghanistan ?

If they do not receive social security but are on an elite retirement plan not available to the people, it?s because they want it that way.

There are no insoluble government problems.

Do not let these 545 people shift the blame to bureaucrats, whom they hire and whose jobs they can abolish; to lobbyists, whose gifts and advice they can reject; to regulators, to whom they give the power to regulate and from whom they can take this power. Above all, do not let them con you into the belief that there exists disembodied mystical forces like ?the economy,? ?inflation,? or ?politics? that prevent them from doing what they take an oath to do.

Those 545 people, and they alone, are responsible.

They, and they alone, have the power.

They, and they alone, should be held accountable by the people who are their bosses.

Provided the voters have the gumption to manage their own employees?

We should vote all of them out of office and clean up their mess!

Charlie Reese is a former columnist of the Orlando Sentinel Newspaper.



.:2 cents:

Human Nature :2 cents:


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Duh, what do you think has been going on for the last 3 years?

Do tell. :winkwink:

no lol.. not saying i had a hard childhood, but i was raised in a nice neighbourhood by a good family attempting to make sure 'nothing was free' for me. it was, an educational experience, growing up with nothing trying to make friends with kids who it seemed to 'have it all'

well the model i am measuring is my grandfathers father wouldn't believe me if i were able to say 'i am able to drive across the continent in 4 days'

telling him i'd be able to get to the other side in 5 hours would blow his mind.

Its not a question of if a depression is coming its more of the question of when.

Anyone who understands how our markets work and how overall fiance work in the world should see that this last recession is nothing compared to what is about to happen.

Commercial Real estate is now at about 48% below the peak back in October 2007. The pot is about to boil and when it does you will see 100's of more banks go under, you will see a crash of epic proportions. The index of property is at a ALL TIME LOW!!!

Further more the market is on a 6 week straight decline and is not showing much sign of improvement.

Most of the sheep in this country and or world do not realize the worst has not even come close to showing its horns. When it does, I guarantee unemployment in the 28-35%.

:(:disgust

uh oh... another kook who thinks fluoride is a government distributed poison...


Hint: people in the government drink and cook with the same water and get fluoride treatments when they go to the dentist the same as the rest of us. Why would they mess with that? What could they possibly benefit from that? Oh, right, nothing... except protecting people from harmful bacterias!

Prices are not the same as the 80's...I'm not sure where you are getting that from. Things like electronics, clothes are much cheaper now, other things like food, gas, etc is more expensive.

what we need to do is stop being a debt producing country and start producing goods again. before the 80's credit card debt was rare, and refi's weren't something you would do for extra spending money and still, the economy was pretty good. if you take a look at the huge dow increase, it almost conicides with the consumer debt trend.

things can still be good, people just have to stop being so stupid with their money and companies should not use stock as a value metric for their company, as stocks can't go up forever, its just impossible.

entirely possible. :disgust


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