So what's the consensus? I know there are quite a few countries who have stopped the procedure of adding it to the public water supply.

But isn't there a difference between stopping a practice that may have no benefit and the claim that there is a conspiracy to use fluoride to control or subdue the populace? It seems that's what HerPimp was on about.



.

i don't think there is a 'consensus', just as there doesn't seem to be a consensus of whether people are harmed by always being around electricity or major highways.

is that a nefarious conspiracy? i have no idea. what i am curious about is why there doesn't seem to be very many studies on an act meant to 'fix teeth', that could have a major impact on the development of teeth, bones, brains etc, that was picked up from Nazi Germany.

call me crazy, but make sure you add 'curious' in there somewhere.

Totally agree.

I was speaking about the portion of the middle class that will inevitably fill the space that is available in an economy that is experiencing severe dislocation by the last great wave in technology and innovation. There will be new skills needed to maintenance and service industry in these areas.

I'm not sure what you mean by it being a problem that we are the leaders in innovative technologies. I would think the risk is losing ground here. Today, the majority of Phd's in physics and science are Chinese or Indians. It used to be that these minds would stay in the US, but that is no longer the case. We crank them out and they return to their countries.

It's certainly true that you don't need to be a genius to come up with inventive ideas, but I find it hard to rely on the "were too stupid to understand it's impossible" theory. Moores law will end in a couple decades. New ideas in physics and science, which is what drives technology is key, IMO.

Will Americans maintain their position in these areas as time goes on when we are producing less minds domestically? I think that's a risk. Maybe we will be copying one day, but that seems like going backwards to me.



.

I don't think you're crazy and I admire the curiosity. I haven't taken a deep look at it, but I don't think there is any evidence to support the propositions that have been put forth in the areas you mentioned. Always willing to look at credible data.

The conspiracy theory part is just that, IMO.


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well i am not sure how far along you are at the 'morning sleepiness', but a man once said that everything we see is but shadows of the things we don't

my grandfather laughed at me about conspiracy theories as well, he laughed and asked if i believed in all those chem trail theories.

he didn't like my asking how, if he was supreme leader of the shit pile, would he hide conspiracies on a network of data that would technically be almost impossible to 'hide everything on'.. would he create fantastic imagined stories to seed the half truths that have some relevance?

and furthermore, what is cloud seeding all about?

haha, old people :winkwink:

It's really unlikely.

The small town I grew up in the midwest had the best tap water ever for 100+ years and before that when the Sauk and Sioux Indians drank it. Then in the late 90s they added so much flouride that it is literally impossible to drink it.

There was nothing wrong with the water and they basicly made every one buy bottled water. This is prob the biggest political blunder on the local level I have seen.

Someone is making money. Maybe the bottled water industry. Maybe the chemical industry. Prob both.

This is the problem as pointed out by Charlie Reese: People (politicians) will spite entire villages and take their precious pure water (there was nothing wrong with) so they (I suspect) can make their own personal fortune.

So everyone in the town complains but it was a "state issue or county issue and nothing you can do."

The water is absolutely undrinkable. The stench of flouride is overwhelming. Perhaps they are adding too much. But they took a precious resource that people on the coasts would give anything for and ruined it.

I do believe there is some kind of conspiracy even if it's just a politician(s) taking bribes and corps making more money.

BTW, I drink the same water they used to enjoy (Im out of city limits) via a well on private property that the govt can not regulate. Best f'n water ever and 100% free. They better not try to take that.

Actually they can regulate it but so far so good. It is above specs. :winkwink: We make sure of that. :)

Are you sure you don't have that confused with sulfur or some other chemical? Fluoride has no taste or smell.



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probably cholorine. some water is terrible for strong tastes of it.

FDR is NOT Teddy's son. He's like a fifth cousin. :2 cents:

I became interested in the porn industry after my engineering job went to China. There's little doubt that the porn industry will be affected if the American working and middle classes are destroyed. People that struggle to pay rent and buy food can't afford to buy porn. Dickweed politicians that care only about personal gain are destroying America. The situation is FAR worse than what most realize. You can read about it here:

whileromeburns.org/741776A/blogs/entry/Weiner

The above site has a very graphic pornographic depiction of what's happening and what's about to happen to this country.

I'm sorry. Yes guys it was Chlorine. I just woke up and still a little cobwebby. :)

But chlorine tastes like poisen to me. It is like drinking swimming pool water. There was absolutely nothing wrong with the water. Prob barely above on one part of the state test.

In the late 60's - early 70s I would visit my grandparents in Minneapolis and their water was chlorinated but not nearly as heavily. Maybe 1/4 as heavy.

I'm not going to read all of this. But to answer your question, it is absolutely inevitable. With our shell game currency, peak oil, entitlement junkies and huge government theft of any real wealth, we're not sustainable. Period. It's just that simple.

And when this generation of worthless NOTHING IS MY FAULT and I DESERVE EVERYTHING but I DON'T JUST WANT IT ALL, BUT I WILL HAVE IT N O W grows up into power, we'll be even more fucked

The United States was a great country with good hard working people who GAVE A FUCK and I don't know WHAT to call it now but a GREEDY CROOKED MESS

I'm almost glad some of my closest loved ones got killed when I think, well, at least they aren't going to have to be around to see what it's come to. It's a sick sad shame.

Mr Maxwell, you won't be running for office then??

102 depressions!

On the upside, exports hit an all time high in April.

Since noone is reading this :winkwink: I also graduated in the late 80's with a degree in the worst thing possible: (although the best thing possible twenty years earlier) Engineering Technology (Industrial Engineering) In 1988 there were no jobs except on the coasts and competition was high.

This is part of my reason for ranting on the loss of manufacturing.

I was young and dumb and really did not want to work in an industry environment but you cant keep changing majors. Right students. :)

Hell I didnt know. I was a child of the 70s. :)

I went through the list of majors and said this looks good. Wrong! Fail! But it did me some good. :)

In fact we studied how the Japanese were studying us at that time. :) We knew they were coming.

An economic transformation is happening of a type, and on a scale, that humans have never seen, it's a complex transformation caused by many interacting forces, so, yes, something is "taking place" that changes everything that americans thought were stable.

But, the "solution" of retraining for high-skill jobs that you describe, while it's commonly said, will only work for a few. And I gather you know why it will only work for a few.

A question is, why are we as a people unwilling to tell ourselves the truth about what's taking place?

Yes, a political response, and I like how you casually walk past the question of what type of political responses have a chance to work.

Our nation is not politically mature, intelligent, or experienced - so we've caught ourselves in a trap.

We are watching a cold war between managed & semi-managed economies and unmanaged & semi-unmanaged economies.

But as a people we have defined ourselves as being unwilling to manage our economy. A bit like bringing a knife to a gunfight.

There are a lot of things we are not in a position to address because of what we chose these past decades.

And chances are good our economy is going to have to shed another 10+ million workers or more in the next decade to compete with the managed economies. And again the decade after.

It will be interesting to see what happens when the shed workers and the oncoming generations truly understand what's happening.

Anyone see the Bilderberg list for this year. Interesting pattern.

No no... I make too much sense

Our currency wouldn't be printed at will (well.. I could not reverse that right away because we HAVE TO print to pay interest on debt... just like you can't turn a cruise liner on a dime..) I would start turning the wheel in the right direction

I'd gut entitlement programs and lazy bums would stop getting good peoples money. No more stealing, period.

I'd limit as much as I could the rape of social security

I'd make as much progress toward making it POSSIBLE for businesses to do business here (lower business taxes to lure them back) ... which also can't happen over night

Then there are some other changes like letting Americans own firearms and allowing women to be topless in public

Some little shit like that really bothers me. Why the fuck can a disgustingly ugly horrible looking male go topless while a foxy sexy angel has to cover her eye dazzling rounded breasts?!!



It's too late to give power back to the people, I believe, though. Everyone is too god damned brain dead. WE use to give power to the government. Now THEY give us any power we're allowed to have.

And as stupid as everyone is, it's too late to go back :(

This is why no president even HINTING at being worth a shit will EVER be elected or even get 5% of votes. People will NOT vote for being responsible and actually paying for things ... the day that happens will be when the states crash - it'll vote itself in, believe me.

From this weeks TIME - very relevant to this discussion:

Wednesday, Jun. 08, 2011 - What U.S. Economic Recovery? Five Destructive Myths

@Vjo The education industry lied to my generation. They told us that an engineering degree is the key to open doors to opportunity. The only doors it opened for me were the double doors at Wal-mart. It will be my generation to fight (literally) for the right to survive.



@Jesus H Christ I've worked in facilities where I was one of the few Americans. All the rest were cheap H1B laborers brought in from across the world. We're fucked from both sides, from overseas competition and H1B workers brought over here.

THE SOLUTION CAN BE FOUND HERE:
WhileRomeBurns.org/741776A/blogs/entry/Weiner

a page with photos that clearly sums up the situation

That part was an assumption on my part. Good to know. Appears they all end up being cousins.

Sorry peeps, but "Welcome to the Greatest Depression" :)

We are looking at 20 years of Yugoslavia style poverty with a tyrannical government making sure everyone has a pot to piss in.

There is no way out of this, because nobody wants out! There is no solution because nobody wants a solution. I only say this because everyone seems to agree that we are headed for shit city but nobody wants to actually change anything that would alter our expected arrival at shitville.

As for the porn industry? Well now that the government figured it can tax lap dances it is not long now that the government will simply take over and use SEX as a means to fund itself.

Actually even educational facilities are really about making money. Just another industry. Self educate yourself and save the 100K rather than get a formal ed unless maybe in nursing and a few technical areas which still pay.

Our heyday was prob a day after we won WW2 till the early 70s when many people lost tons over the oil embargo and market crash in the very early 70s. We never eally recovered and it was downhill since.

Each decade with less wealth for the masses as a whole. Since then we keep getting further from 1959 which may have been this country's greatest year. (for the masses as a whole) The peak year with Ike.

Dwight David "Ike" Eisenhower was a five-star general in the United States Army and the 34th President of the United States, from 1953 until 1961.

I looked at the link you posted and the US may be the modern Rome heading over the waterfalls but we sure were a short lived empire.

"I like Ike"

NOBODY wants a solution??? Then why the goddamn fuck are we all here talking about this matter?

I've realized that in my senior year. The profs fought like hell to try to fail me out. Sick bunch of self-serving motherfuckers...a lot like politicians.

Here's the way I see it: The US has 300 million people, thereabouts. The top ten percent may have the money, but they each only get one vote. As long as the election process isn't rigged, if the average folks would select a candidate from their own socioeconomic class they could support the candidacies of those individuals. Look, if the Egyptians could use FaceBook to unite millions for revolution why can't we use modern technology to end the dominance of the Democrats and Republicans by giving s/o with our own interests a real shot at winning?

"Politics ought to be the part-time profession of every citizen who would protect the rights and privileges of free people and who would preserve what is good and fruitful in our national heritage."

http://i892.photobucket.com/albums/a...isenhower3.jpg

"Leadership is the art of getting someone else to do something you want done because he wants to do it"

http://i892.photobucket.com/albums/a...isenhower2.jpg

Dwight D. Eisenhower (1890–1969)
34th President of the United States (1953-1961 2 Terms)
5 Star General United States Army

"William Howard Taft, William Jennings Bryan, William Tell -- whoever. Their spirit is dead -- if they ever had one -- it's gone." Colonel Slade, Scent of a Woman

One can never rest on the laurels of the past-no matter how great they may have been. It is time for new leaders to come forth and lead us into the future.

In theory that's true, but in practice, the economic overlords control the media, they have controlled and gutted education for many years, so for all practical purposes the 90% are incapable of opposing them - as evidenced by the last 30 years of elections and the state of public debate as seen, as allowed to be seen, in the media.

People hoped at one point that the internet would promote freedom, but it is being used to spread disinformation, paranoia, phoney conspiracies, and divide-and-conquer hysteria at an even faster rate than it spreads freedom.

GFY here is a perfect example of that - in fact, we are one of the best examples you could ever find.

I always vote third party. There is not a dimes worth of diff betw dem/rep and if either party wins the special ints got their boy in. All set up. Very convenient.

They pretend there is soooo much diff when they have there lil debates.

Prob is they even pick our third party like Ross Perot and the consumer guy Ralph Nader who keeps stealing dem votes and allowing the repubs to get back in. Still 3rd parties keep getting more votes every year.

We really need a real alternative candidate with a grass roots cmpn like Governor Jesse Ventura did in MN. But big money and media are so powerful they discredit them quick. Still it could happen. Folks will vote if given a real alternative.

Want to fight back? Cancel your TV service. It is all BS. You can get any show you want free on the web. (already happening with today's younger crowd) That will put some hurt in the stinking media.

Save about $500-$1000 in just 12 months and also get the daily BS out of your head. Also watch everything 100% commercial free.

Young guys, that's $25,000+ tax free in 20 years. It adds up. Years salary for many, that is $35,000 earned (before taxes). Want a gauranteed years paid vacation the next 20 years? :) Now you got it.

And for those who say isnt that the same as going to tubes and not paying for porn? Perhaps. But as you always tell me..

Adapt or die. :)

Not everyone is gonna cancel their TV service just like not everyone likes tubes. Incl me. I do buy adult memberships if I see something i like. Then I cancell usually the first month but you get $30 out of me. That is ok. That is a couple $30's a year for 2 memberships.

But the TV industry is recurring charges that never end until you wise up.

If you want to stay another 6 months on your vacation :) dump the home phone now too and put the money aside.

Here's some Grade A Bullshit from the usual suspects - but it includes a few number projections that, while not really meaningfull, provide some scale.

We need to create 21 million jobs by 2020, just to keep up.

Grabbed the link from Big Picture: http://www.mckinsey.com/mgi/publicat...jobs/index.asp

So, what these guys are saying is, temp jobs are the future, sorry workers, your old idea of employment has been disaggregated.

"geographic mismatches between workers and jobs" - as in, you are in the wrong fucking country.

And, the standard coprorate line of "we need a more skilled workforce" - combined with a complete lack of ideas for where these 21 million new jobs are going to come from. "Attracting foreign investment" - really? That's your idea, attract foreign investment in this country?

Also note what is not mentioned - the chronically underemployed - we have 9% unemployment, but another 11% underemployment. (this doesn't even count the unemployable or those off the employment map altogether, like a lot of freelancers, and, oh yeah, people like us, self employed webmasters) The underemployed are just fucked - counted as employed by the government, they simply don't matter, because they aren't part of the media numbers propaganda.

So, if you want to try the give the chronically underemployed a living wage, and 21 million jobs are what is need to employ the officially unemployed and the oncoming generations, what we actually need to create is about 41 million new jobs.

So, what effect do you think that the need for 41 million new jobs is going to have on wages and salaries in general here in this country? Make them go up?

The companies are making money, the economic elites are making money, the international and multinational marketplace is booming, but if you are part of the working strata in america you are well and truly fucked.

I literally took my house phone which was also a scanner/fax out and dumped it in the dumpster.

Keeeer plump! Very liberating. $250/year saved ($350 earned) not incl LD. Thank you very much. It all adds up.

My nut is now very low. THIS is the secret to survival in biz and personally in the next years. Get rid of unnec overhead now BEFORE you have to.

anyone hear how many workers gave up and left the work force last month (and are thus not counted in unemploment stats any more?)

some months it's been as high as half a mil per month.

the official stats are bullshit. something out of soviet russia.

When the people can no longer afford TV, internet, or, hell, even a newspaper, this problem will be solved. Until then, people like us MUST spread the truth.

It's up to us to demonstrate this fact to as many people as possible. Personally I just try to reach the unemployed and the underemployed.

Maybe you should run. Find people that would have a vested self-interest in turning this ship around: the working poor and the unemployed. Plant seeds, find people that truly believe in what you say, and commission them to help you spread the gospel of unification and solidarity against the titans of commerce.

Work initially from the shadows. Don't offer the mainstream media a target to hit. Once you have a core group of supporters then you could make a formal candidacy announcement. Engineer media events and conveniently have your backers with you. The media coverage with throngs of supporters around you would add legitimacy to your campaign and help propel you.

Very honered thank you. I think I could make good decisions and would be truly of the people. I know what it's like to scrap for a $ which is prereq number one.

But that is something you have to grow up with plus I am way too private a person.

Politics is actually not what I am. I am more a survivalist I like to think. The exact opposite. I say go underground as much as possible. A Henry David Thoreau loner.

You all have read "On Waldon Pond" of course? Nutshell in 1845 he went with $80 of beans and rice and seeds and lived for two years on that. He believed that to work your life away was wrong. He believed free time was the highest thing achievable. The worst thing was to be born a farmer's son. You inherit the farm, you have lots of money but you are sentenced to a lifetime of work.

If you are on you own and you want some inspiration check it out. Cool dude really. Wrote a book the whole time called.. On Waldon Pond (Concord, Massachusetts which makes it more amazing. Gets cold there.)

"gaurd your affections" as the Brits say. :) Isnt that the Brits. They are so clever. I love the Brits! :)

I think I could do as well as either Bush tho. :)

488: I dont get much stats with no TV service. I am too busy dl'ng *** :1orglaugh

That is your job to keep us informed. :thumbsup

I have no current facts. And I have other stuff to do.

Isolationist too. :)

http://i892.photobucket.com/albums/a...t/thoreau1.jpg

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Walden_Pond

http://i892.photobucket.com/albums/a...alden_Pond.jpg

Walden Pond
Concord, Massachusetts

Henry David Thoreau

http://i892.photobucket.com/albums/a...t/thoreau2.jpg

Maxham daguerreotype of Henry David Thoreau made in 1856

Born: July 12, 1817(1817-07-12)
Concord, Massachusetts

Died: May 6, 1862(1862-05-06) (aged 44)
Concord, Massachusetts

Era: 19th century philosophy

Region: Western Philosophy

School: Transcendentalism

Main interests: Natural history

Notable ideas: Abolitionism, tax resistance, development criticism, civil disobedience, conscientious objection, direct action, environmentalism, anarchism, simple living