So who is wrong then? The banks for asking for the bailouts or the government for giving it to them?


Or could it just be simpler than that. The bad loans are the result of the same people protesting getting in over their heads with mortgage and credit card debt.

I'm thinking that a large percentage of the protestors never owned their own home. And if they had credit card debt...it wasn't a lot because they didn't have a big credit limit.

Not saying there is anything wrong with that. I'm just saying that a lot of the protestors look kinda young. I know I didn't have a credit card or a big mortgage when I was in my 20's. I was too busy partying. heh-heh

Even now I've got a $30,000 limit on my AMEX card. I could have it raised if I want to I guess. But I'm just saying...I KNOW I've made more money over the last 15 years than anybody on that street protesting. And I doubt very seriously that any of them have a handful of platinum American Express cards with high credit limits.

I think they are protesting on behalf of the people with big mortgages and credit cards maybe?

From what I've read, many of them have massive amounts of debt but not from mortgages or from credit cards. It's a lot of students drowning in student debt, which does not get discharged by bankruptcy.

If you went to college 4-8 years ago and then grad school afterward at any 'good school' you are likely sitting on 100-200K in student loan debt now... at a time when unemployment is through the roof and virtually nobody is hiring a new graduate since there is a surplus of experienced people out of work.

That means you have a massive amount of debt, you can't get a good job, you lack the borrowing capacity or funds to be much of an entrepreneur, you can't use bankruptcy or free money to get out of your problem (which is essentially what banks too big to fail were allowed to do) - it's a rough time to be 25 years old.

Not pointing fingers or blaming one group or another as to WHY they are in that position... but it is an unenviable position to be in and it shows hard working people who are doing 'what they are supposed to do' are getting shafted.

Everyone should be looking for constructive solutions to the problem, instead it's more red team vs blue team vitriol funded by .1%, corporate, union and other special interest groups on both sides who benefit by maintaining the status quo or pushing their own very narrow agendas. :2 cents:

students protesting in tiananmen square = heroes.

students doing the same in the US = terrorists.

poor decisions.
no one should borrow 1-200k for an education.

Fixed that for ya....


That's why some people are upset, it shouldn't cost 100k+ to get an education. But 1/3 of medical doctors have debts greater than that, and the same goes for most double higher-degree people. At todays costs, which is going up every year, more and more.

By time kids today attend college it's going to be 100k for a lower education degree at this rate.

Quality colleges cost 40K+ per year these days. I agree with you, shelling out a large amount of money to go to a 'middle of the road' school is a mistake, especially in light of lower cost state colleges. However even setting aside the Ivys, the opportunity to go to Amherst, William And Mary, Cornell or another similar school *usually* pays off handsomely in a normal economy... and that's what those schools cost. In many cases grad school is a necessity for a particular career. Lawyers must go to law school, Doctors must go to med school etc... and that brings with it 3+ more years of debt-inducing academia.

Saying nobody should borrow 1-200K for education is akin to saying anybody without 200K should not become educated in the present system. The system is in desperate need of an overhaul. It's one of the many things bubbling up from the #ows crowd... they lack the ability to articulate a clear message which is the main problem with their 'movement' but that doesn't mean some of their gripes are any less in need of action.

http://boingboing.net/2011/10/07/122076.html
Tuition is becoming the next bubble thanks to debt that can't be discharged by bankruptcy being repackaged and sold for profit by Universities that are businesses rather than educational institutions. Add in the fact that schools 'invest' their endowments in a market that is badly flawed and the problem gets much worse.

I think the problem is that a segment of society blames the institution for all their problems. It's easy to go out and fuck up then blame it on the banks or wall street or the politicians.

If it were really the banks that are at fault here,why is the majority still doing fine. For every person that was foreclosed on nationally there are at least 10 that weren't. What was it that group of people did right?

its easy to fix. stop governmental backing of student loans and stop excluding them from bankruptcy. problem solved.
and again, borrowing more than you can pay is a bad decision.

borrowing more than you can afford is never a good idea. you have no one to blame for it but yourself.
for every out of work protester boo hooing about his student loan, there are 10 others working hard and paying it off.

The shiftless OW crowd would be the least well off no matter what the economy.

it wouldn't make any sense if they were excluded from bankruptcy... everyone would go to school, then as soon as they graduate they would file for bankruptcy, obviously that wouldn't work very well...

I've already said the same thing but it will never happen. The tea party is pretty much just an meat puppet of the extreme right wing and too focused on hate to ever work with those evil liberal socialist college kids.

A person could borrow $5k and not afford it depending on what happens in life. So yeah, if a person borrows $100k for a job that pays $10k a year, they're stupid - but now let's get back to reality.

Most people CAN pay it back and do, it's not like you can stop from paying it back... so you're logic is fails.

The point that you keep ignoring is, is SHOULD NOT cost as much as it does. You pretend like people have a choice that they pay 10x more for college today than you did.

That's the point YOU are missing.

yes it would.
The student loan market would all but dry up, forcing colleges to stop gouging students.

dear idiot. please point out where I've ignored the cost.
I'll wait right here.:1orglaugh

By itself allowing bankruptcy wouldn't solve the problem. Students would run up massive debt, declare bankruptcy upon graduation when they have no assets and be clear of bankruptcy 7 years later when their incomes actually improve.

The better solution, and it may happen in the not too distant future, is schools willing to go on revshare. Very low upfront cost for an education that also requires people to sign a contractual obligation to allow the school to garnish their wages in year 5-10 after graduation. The problem right now is that schools have zero incentive to graduate people with careers or to turn away people who have no business being in their institutions but for the fact that they are paying tuition. Meanwhile society benefits from having an educated workforce and is doing a terrible job of fostering one presently.

The current educational system is badly broken. It's one of the thousands of gripes coming out of ows unfortunately... but it's one with merit. :2 cents:

:1orglaugh

funny how our least educated have bought into the whole hateful tea party lie.

I explained above why this won't happen.
banks aren't stupid. banks NEVER lent this kind of money to students until the government started promising a payback.

just like the government promised the unworthy a home, they did the same for an education.

Nobody cares about those that did not screw the system. Not every bank, corp, or person was part of what took place.

It's proven countrywide lied, scammed, withheld loan information, etc.. to people on loans, and not just a couple of people, like 100,000's of people, over 500k people in a single lawsuit to give you an idea.

Are you saying over half a million people are to blame here? That the bank did nothing?

The people that did it right? What about those that can afford the house they purchased, did nothing wrong and will do nothing wrong, but because of a scam, fake, fraud valued market the house they own will never, ever, be worth what they paid for it? That's millions and millions of people btw....

each homeowner who gave false information and let country wide run with it are absolutely complicit

Oh let me reverse that.... dear idiot. please point out where I said a person couldn't afford the cost? I'll wait right here.:1orglaugh

Btw, why would you include all that other bullshit you spewed if the first thing I brought up was the cost?

Now, back onto the actual point... people are protesting the actual cost of the education, not other of that other gibberish shit you said.

Courts found countrywide to be guilty.... not the other way around.

Even millionaires, with lawyers... got fucked, scammed, screwed by countrywide - not just the low class nobodies that you love to hate on.

Your hate is shining through today.

I already said that, but the fact is a very large percentage of the Tea Party is pretty much just a bunch of hate mongols. If you look at typical right wing tactics it's pretty much inspire hate against the left.. Calling them socialists, freeloaders ect..ect..

This is what fuels the Right wing and the tea party so as a group they will never work with OWS. However I'd be willing to bet, the sensible people with-in the tea party are probably already at these demonstrations or at lest support what is going on.

On the flip side the OWS movement has it's own problems to deal with from with-in. They also have their own hate mongols and many that are totally unrealistic. I mean really what's the whole "I hate millionaires thing about" it's just stupid, they need to focus on the money in politics and not specific groups.

The problem I see is eventually the Democrats will take over the OWS movement and it will just turn into an extension of the left much the same as the tea party is an extension of the right.

It will just end up being the same ole same ole where the politicians blame each other and keep the public at bay with their hate for the other side. This way they can continue to not work for the people but rather big business.

does anyone know what this idiot is talking about?
Christ, no wonder he's now "doing other things" (unemployed)

Look folks, it's 12clicks twisting another topic that he fails to argue. Shocking!


Yeah, ouch you really burnt me, I mean.. your program sure seems to be kicking it with all your years of killer, non-doing-other-things focus, you've given it. :1orglaugh :1orglaugh :1orglaugh

So how come no guys on stilts dancing this year? Anybody know what this Wall St. Occupation ended up fixing? :thumbsup

seriously dude, you embarrass yourself.

why do you think your so called business dried up?
because your board antics betrayed you.

I don't know why you even argue with him. The dude is disconnected from reality and is a walking basket case.

I wouldn't notice him if he didn't quote me.

he hangs on my cock for attention every time I post.

also, I hit you on icq just this morning.
you should turn it on once in a while. :winkwink:
I'm heading home. hit me up tomorrow morning if you're around

Yeah, I'm totally embarrassed because 12clicks says so. :error

It dried up? Shit I had no idea, maybe I'll add some water.... and again, funny stuff from you - the only thing moving on your program is that gif in your signature, yet you talk to me about dried up business... funny stuff, funny stuff.

lol I was going to respond to 12clicks in a serious manor, but then I realized that he is only here to call people names to make himself feel better. Instead I decided to post a picture of Boneprone with a pancake on his head. I think it pretty much sums up 12clicks thought pattern.

http://www.freshstation.org/gallery/...g?m=1289420719

check out that ''illuminati card game''

These fuckers are playing you americans

Your OWN people will enslave YOU

KILL FOR PEACE card

http://www.bahrainviews.com/wp-conte..._for_peace.jpg


WALL STREET card

http://media.adamdodson.org/index.ph...me/wall-street

Oh I wasn't aware you knew me outside of your tough guy posts on gfy.....

You should go back to your corner, you know what that means, right?

Myself and 12clicks have been doing this for years and years now and still shake hands in person... but hey, if you need to puff your chest, let me step aside and give you plenty of room.

Suck on a .45 lately, or you forgot to take your meds again?

Lol, okay... :1orglaugh puff up and pound that chest big man, get it all out.

You've been drinking again, haven't you? You know your brain meds and beer don't mix. Shame on you!

Lol, again? Could you tell me the last time I drank, mr. stalker?

Still pounding I see, no problem...

I so do enjoy your inflated self worth. Did you learn that from you group talks or from your shrink?

Lol.... I think it's rather funny that you attack someone for the reasons you are. You believe I have a medical condition, thus you believe it's cool to attack a person and use that medical condition as a weapon in your argument.

I mean really, what type of total shit stain person does that? You're the kid that beat up the kid in the wheelchair and tripped the kid on crutches for a quick laugh aren't you? That's sad.

http://cdn.stripersonline.com/7/71/6...et-Signs3.jpeg

ADG

Then why are these people going after Wallstreet and the Banks? They should be demonstrating against the universities.

Isn't that sort of like a burglar telling the judge that for every house he robbed there were a lot more that he didn't :1orglaugh

Look, anyone who has been paying even a little bit of attention knows that a good many of the fat cats who were bailed out would be in jail right now if the fix wasn't in.

Because universities don't give out loans or pass laws. It's not just Wallstreet and Banks, it's also Washington, policies, congress, politicians, money influence, greed and so on.

I agree with Ron about the costs of college tuition being artificially high because of the govt. loans.

Anytime there is easy money to be had it screws up everything. Sucks because student loans are a great idea and was thought up with the best of intentions.

But like my great-grandma used to say: "The road to Hell is paved with good intentions"

And I think he's right...the universities and colleges charge what they charge because they CAN. If you took govt. loans out of the equation...universities would either drop their prices or close shop.

Wallstreet doesn't control tuitions or give tenure.

As I said, "It's not just Wallstreet and Banks, it's also Washington, policies, congress, politicians, money influence, greed and so on."

OWS vs The Tea Party - A funny side by side comparison...



https://youtube.com/watch?v=jp41TfiGddc

Aye, 1992 policy is what changed everything, kids could get loans without parents, thus a ton of money was freed up, and universities took advantage of it.

The legislative issue here is State Schools. They can be forced to not raise or even lower tuition costs, even reduce student sizes if needed, budgets cuts, pay caps, and even profits can be limited.

If State Schools can't over charge, then private schools will automatically be kept in check. However, if a private school wishes to charge some crazy amount, they are more than welcome to do so. As well, I think if a State school uses Federal Money / ie: loans from students then the Fed has more than enough right and power to enforce these regulations. Now if a State wishes to not take Fed money, then they can do whatever they like.... that's just my 2 cents.

With that mindset,the best you can hope for is an asteroid collision.

My business nearly doubled during the recession,and it wasn't small before. Made enough to allow me to acquire another company. I know I am not that smart or that lucky. Why do you think we did well when 9.1% of the rest didn't?