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And people that think this is the first step to universal health care are truly delusional. |
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The part people don't seem to get is that lack of healthcare for *someone else* is a serious threat to you and your way of life. If someone else gets sick and sneezes, they pose a risk to getting you sick. If many people are ill and miss work it has an inflationary effect on consumer market pricing. If someone ever got *really sick* and decided not to get treatment for lack of insurance you open up the risk of pandemics and plagues. Add the national security risk of biological warfare and yes, having somebody you have never met able to get a 'well visit' at a doctors office for free once a year is a vital matter of national interest. We do not allow the Police to include 'profit' in their business model. We don't allow the fire department to charge you extra for fires just because you can afford to pay more than a poor person. We require utility companies and the post office to prove that any increase in rates are a necessity. Yet, if someone has an undiagnosed potentially infectious disease... we tell them they are on their own to deal with a for-profit corporate juggernaut - unless they are so poor as to not have anything left for a parasitic insurance system to take from them. Healthcare is not a luxury, any more than police or the fire department or electricity could be considered one. The law should include significant copays for things, it should not cover anything 'cosmetic or nonessential' - but if someone I have never met develops a nasty cough, it is in my interest and yours to identify them, know why they are coughing and treat it before you or I get sick. :2 cents: |
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If you drive a car with an expired drivers license , you get a fine ( if you prefer , call it a tax ) . You must stop driving, and have to pay the full license fee . This obligation will reduce all the' free ' care provided to people that claim they have no $$$ ... Don't like the obligation ??? I agree, I do not like it either : - school tax ( never had a child ) - Military ( am anti-war ) - etc .... |
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I eat relatively well, I exercise, I wash my hands after touching public property, all because it's something I voluntarily choose to do because at some point I was enlightened to those ideas. Usually the statist response to the above would be, "Well! Not every person in society listens! Not every person acts responsibly!", but is that truly justification for using force against peaceful individuals? (in the case of the ACA the force = theft via fines and the peaceful individuals = anyone who simply chooses not to buy healthcare, which is a peaceful action). It's should not be a question of "private vs. public healthcare?" The question needs to be "voluntary vs. coercive?" for anything the state does. It's like saying, "Well the system isn't perfect right now, it needs fixed, so instead of trying to fix it through the non-initiation of force, let's just say fuck it and use force to attempt to fix the problem" Now a statist is perfectly fine with the train of thought in the quote above, because that's what the state essentially does. If you're fine with that sort of thing, OK. Just understand that you have a serious problem of logic; ask yourself then why can only some people use violence? Why can only some people called the state use violence to provide these services and other people can't? That's like saying "Human beings should not initiate the use of force" .... "except those guys over there in the black suits. Not only they can, but they should." It's morally wrong, corrupt and philosophically incorrect. |
don't mess with a systemt that works this well.
Envy of so many places. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of...mortality_rate |
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Let me turn the table around -- if you get hit by a truck why should a hospital fix you up if you don't have insurance or money up front? |
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..That's not to mention all of the unnecessary drug interventions they give during labor, the insane number of vaccinations a child under the age of 1 receives, which also contribute to that pathetic mortality rate we here in the US have. |
And yet another reason not to tamper with the system. And reasons for so many to envy America.
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http://www.infoplease.com/ipa/A0934556.html http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of...%29_per_capita And it's such a great industry producing massive profits for share holders. Quote:
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I didn't have so many choices. I had to pay and when Eva had an accident the hospital had to save her life, free of charge on the day. When I had cancer, I had to let the hospital cure me so I could stay here and annoy people. Again free of charge on the day. We don't have the options you have. :1orglaugh |
Although, Obongocare is not the quickest way to single payer health insurance, it is much better then the alternative.
Obongocare will die by a death of a thousand cuts and the privatized health care insurance companies will go out of business. Medicare for all should be implemented to cover all Americans. |
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If you want to push, why must I pay school taxes .. or taxes for military , or taxes for prisons where a huge number are there for non-violent ' substance ' infraction ... Fine, abolish all government and welcome anarchy ... WWW ... ( Wild Wild West ... ) |
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The insurance company also makes a lot of assumptions about you getting into accidents based on other drivers when you could have never been in an accident. I've never had an at fault accident and im still paying $4k a year for insurance JUST IN CASE. It's the same shit you old moron. |
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You can also get UI coverage which is Uninsured or Underinsured Motororist coverage. Again, NOT MANDATORY. And insurance will not keep you from getting sued, moron. |
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You think you just walk away? :1orglaugh It protects everyone. |
Right now the people who do not have insurance are costing you tax dollars that the government doesn't have.
How is this soo hard to understand? Eventually Americans have to start paying more taxes. You know these same people crying about Obamacare will be the first to cry about their neighbor who was refused treatment. lol. |
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People comparing ObamaTax to buying car insurance = biggest retards of all. :1orglaugh
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I have paid for all my medical care throughout my entire life, I don't owe anybody a dime. I'm in my mid fifties with diabetes, high blood pressure a few other conditions that make getting health insurance prohibitively expensive, I go to the doctor 6 times per year and pay cash, I pay for all my medications. So now my choices are I can either pay for the overpriced insurance with the money I'm putting away for my retirement, or can go without insurance, pay the fine and take the chance that I'll be able to retire someday. I have a feeling I'll be paying the fine and using the emergency room as my primary care provider, I may as well become what I'm already accused of being. Maybe there are good parts to the law, if I get really sick they can't refuse to sell me the insurance, I can always drop it after. But I will always oppose the mandate. |
I don't see where there is any "health care" at all in this law.
All I see is a mandatory health insurance law. Nothing in it that addresses the deal Obama made with the drug companies to insure that they can continue to charge U.S. citizens 3 and 4 times higher than any other country on Earth. And nothing in there about hospitals over charging for everything ($28 for kleenex for instance). The way I see it...IF we had just said "fuck it" and went all the way with "single payer" and made it basically medicaid for everyone...the insurance companies would have went out of business completely because they would be obsolete. So who really benefits from this? Obviously the insurance companies and their billions of dollars of lobbying got the result they wanted and now they are going to be collecting money from every living person in the U.S. :( |
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just cause i am interested: have you checked how much insurance would be for you under the new law? |
i just had Cryoplasty surgery on the femoral artery (leg- thigh) (similar to angioplasty) the "sticker price" was $72,000.83. (Yeah they wanted their fuckin' .83 too!) The contracted insurer's price was $33,508.37 (cofinity contract.) My insurer paid all but about $ $2,124.82 then some professional fees (surgeon) -- that is my copay and part of this year's deductible. So, what is your leg worth? I have PAD (Peripheral artery disease) a "preexisting" condition. My insurance and medical expenses are about $1,000 a month out of my pocket. |
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----- Me: Did you or your ancestors come TO this country after it was founded? Him: Uh, yeah of course. Me: So the country already had laws and a system of government in place that clearly stated how the laws may be amended over time? Him: Yes. That is absolutely true Me: Did you or your ancestors benefit from living in this country under those laws by getting employed, educated, living without fear of invasion, owning personal property that is protected from thieves, having access to technology and other essential aspects of living in a civilized society? Him: I think I see where you are going with this and I already feel like a fool... Me: Don't feel like a fool, clearly you made a video without thinking things through ahead of time. That doesn't bother me. What bothers me is other people on the internet will see it and assume just because you have a microphone that you have some idea wtf you are talking about... even though we both know that isn't true. Him: Yeah I feel like a real tool right about know. Me: So you admit you are wrong and that if you come TO a state that already exists, explains its laws and you benefit from your free choice to accept a relationship as a citizen of that state with binding laws governing you... you ought to be bound by those same laws until you peacefully get them changed, relinquish your citizenship or change your mind and agree with them. Him: Yes. You are absolutely correct, I am going to go make a new video about that right now. Me: No. Don't make a video. Just sit quietly and think. Do us all a favor. ------ Hope that helps :2 cents: |
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I benefit from living here in some ways but other ways I don't. In the ways I don't, I would like to change. It's not as if anarcho-capitalists, voluntaryists, some libertarians, dare I say anarchists, are simply bickering to bicker. The whole goal is to offer enlightenment, much in the same way Ron Paul has to others with his campaign. The only way a truly voluntary society will come about is through the exchanging of ideas and hopefully kickstarting a society where children are raised to value the non-aggression principle and hopefully usher in a stateless voluntary society in the future. Right now? It could never happen, I agree. We still have generations of people who believe the state and aggression are how you solve problems; but that doesn't negate the purpose of pushing the right message. Edit: Also.. Quote:
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If something serious happens, where you need surgery and a extended hospital stay. Very few can pay that out of pocket in reality. |
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The average nurse makes $75k a year, and would only cover a single eight hour shift five days a week. Then factor in this nurse would have days off, sick days, and vacation days, and your already talking a lot more than one third of their $300k salary. $300k a year is damn good money, but if one third of that is going out the door for special needs, something is wrong with that. |
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Right now the ruling class can not lose. They have Obama vs Romney. Romney wants to repeal Obamacare and replace it with his own. Which would just be a name change. |
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http://1.bp.blogspot.com/-ml_35u1Dzy...0/Obomney1.png |
Galleryseek,
Your point is valid IF we are talking about forming a new Country with a new Constitution and new laws. Unfortunately for you, this country has already existed for hundreds of years and done just fine before you got here,while you have been here and most likely will continue along on the same foundation long after you have gone from it. In UnicornLand TM we can have a government ruled by singular minority viewpoints and funded via 'when I feel like it' donations. This country however will not become UnicornLand TM... to live there all you need to do is find a sovereign land mass and start drafting your new articles of independent governance.* *For step two I strongly recommend fielding a robust military. You will need it if you plan to remain sovergn for any length of time. --------- Minte, I used to think you were an overly self-important curmudgeon. I was glad to find a sense of humor in you as well ;) |
Obama is a globalist. His upbringing and early life experiences gave him the view that he has today. He see's American's as having an unfair advantage over the rest of the world population. Everything he has done and will continue to do if re-elected will be his best effort to level the playing field. His vision for this country is not in our best interest.
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We've evolved past many things; slavery, the subjugation of women, denial of property rights and more, and at a time in history, all societies viewed those things as perfectly normal, but to a large degree not anymore. This is what needs to happen with the removal of the state as a way to solve problems by force. So no, I'm not going to leave and try to start Unicornland TM, instead I'll focus on slowly but surely educating others I encounter by pointing out the logical flaws with the system they endorse. :) |
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His goal isn't to raise up the 3rd world to our level, his goal is to lower us to the 3rd worlds level. |
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Though many would argue that's my own version of UnicornLand TM, I continue to work toward it publicly in words and privately in deeds.;) |
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Now it all makes so much sense. Thank you? |
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Personal stories of American Health Care. 1988 my Father who had a heart bypass op, had an aneurism a year later. The paramedics rushed him to the nearest SoCal hospital with a helicopter so they could airlift him to Harbor Hospital Long Beach. The SoCal hospital decide to start doing tests as they thought a man with this operation would have insurance. They had no experience, staff or equipment to deal with his problem, yet did the tests rather than fly him to where he could get the care. After much testing, he died later that day. My Mum was sent the bill for the testing, she told them to GF themselves. My Mother was a diabetic and self medicating with a US drug. It was so expensive my Brother drove to Mexico where he could buy it over the counter for 25% of the US price. While there he found he could get refills for a syringe to inject insulin, all he needs was the special syringe. It and the refills are not for sale in the US, so he bought them in Mexico and the UK at a fraction of the costs. Same drugs, same syringe manufactured by the US company. Just not the same profit margins. My Brother was diagnosed with Prostate Cancer, the bill was $40k to fix it, plus add ons. He flew to England, got operated on under the National Health and flew back for check ups, it was cheaper. Getting him insured now will cost $1,500 a month. My cousin plays College Soccer, he's covered if he breaks a lag on the pitch. Yet a swelling on his knee due to playing isn't covered and he needs a CT scan to find the problem. $4,500 for the scan as his insurance doesn't cover him for this. He plays College Soccer. His cover ends when the whistle blows to end the game. The problem isn't the prices, the lack of cover, etc. It's the shitty service for the money you guys are charged. |
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You earned your Lifetime VA coverage as a benefit of being a soldier, that's fine with me. However, that doesn't help the working "poor" non-vet who is uninsured for healthcare by their employer or cannot afford to buy his own insurance. |
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