Uhmm... 1/2 a TRILLION dollars is not a "big number"?

Of course there are govt leeches.. just like there are corporate leeches that also milk the govt tit.

I'll give you an example..

General Electric. In 2010, GE earned a whopping $14.2 billion in profits - yet did not pay a dime in U.S. corporate taxes. Not only did they not pay any taxes they received $3.2 billion in govt incentives.

Now lets talk big Oil.. When you combine state & federal subsidies this industry rakes in roughly $133.8 billion to $280.8 billion a year of tax payer dollars in subsidies. Now this is of course the entire industry as a whole, but just the three top oil companies made $80 billion profits last year. (that's about 200 million a day)

A interesting article from the NY Times about how these companies get out of paying taxes and essentially leech/abuse the system.. (humm sound familiar?)

http://www.nytimes.com/2010/07/04/bu...tax.html?_r=3&

I guess it's ok for rich white CEOs & and their cronies to milk the govt tit, but not poor white trash rednecks & black hooligans. As long as you wear a suit and tie while you steal tax payer money it's all good.

If that is true, I feel very sorry for your family.

When you argue 'this or that candidate' it becomes impossible to push people off their stated positions. However, when you argue ideas it becomes very easy to change the mind of anyone seriously interested in finding solutions, or to have your own mind changed by people you respect. If you have no interest in changing your mind and no hope of changing theirs... why not just go talk to a wall instead?

I used to be a huge proponent of a flat tax. My time chatting with Minte and KK, mostly on JBM back in the day convinced me a national sales tax is a better method (though a nominal flat tax in the 10% range for everyone would likely be needed as well). I've changed my mind on plenty of other things over the years discussing them with people I respect. I know I have also changed the minds of many people in the discussions. You ought to try doing it that way, you will likely find it refreshing. :2 cents:

This issue hasn't been solved in 30 years, you think a 7 page post on GFY will get it done? That's like asking the kiddies over at 4chan to create peace in the middle east. :1orglaugh

Why feel sorry, it was spirited fun? People hugged and kissed when it was time to go home. Im very open minded to facts not fiction presented as facts.

What does that have to do with anything? And yeah...500 billion a year is a LOT of money.

Anyway, I wasn't talking about how much we spend, I was talking about the fact that millions of low lifes out there scam the system.

Tony, if online piracy has taught you anything it should be that if you give people free shit, they will take it.

:1orglaugh:1orglaugh:1orglaugh:1orglaugh

Sadly an all to often true story.

So where do you think America went wrong to create this culture? By the way I was also talking in a wider sense than America. Nice of you to ignore that.

Yes there will always be some who will work the system, like you do by only paying a 13% tax rate. BUT why have some countries gone that route and some haven't?

In England there is the same culture, yet in Germany it seems not, here in CZ it's kept to a minority who are mainly gypsies. There are countries where people do go to work and want to or keep trying. What has happened that these people have lost their self respect, their drive to do better for themselves and their families?

Could it be that as jobs in factories like Fords disappeared these kids realised with their education, postcode and race, they had so little chance of getting a job. Working the system was the only way to survive. Sending out CV after CV or turning up for interview after interview or working for an employer who will pay you less than the State. Have some just given up?

And please don't turn around and bleat the same brainwash dished out by those employing and paying less than the State. They are working the system as well. Like employers taking on illegals and paying very low wages, like farmers or food processors. So you can buy cheaper goods. Which is why most of the equipment around you and I are built in Third World sweat shops.

Yes blame the victims of the way our world has changed from a time when the West produced so much and imported so little. It doesn't change a thing. Take the benefits away and those guys smoking and selling meths are coming to your front door for your stuff. And they won't knock on the door so you can get your gun from the cupboard.

Cut military spending and highly trained killers will join them and they can knock on the door with a grenade. Or worse.

So come up with a solution.

Mine is simple, switch the money from funding what those in work can afford to pay direct for. Or tax you higher. Then put it into training for jobs that have a shortage of applicants. Any bright kid who can pass the college entry exam to be a science, engineering, hi tech, etc student and let the State pay for it. Or pass the cost onto those who want to be tax lawyers of plastic surgeons and other such professions that pay very well.

Give grants to factories who take kids on for a year. Even if it's to sweep the floors it teaches the ethic of work.

Then huge public projects, like painting the houses of old or infirm, rebuilding the poor areas of New Orleans or the flooded towns and cities in the UK, any disaster ravaged area. To give unemployed a job in return for their dole. A person doesn't turn up, an ex office worker will be looking at the file, then someone will be knocking on the persons door. Without a great excuse. No benefits. Yes it's tough, but that's what it needs. There are no sugar coated remedies.

Imported finished goods + 10% import tax. Unfinished goods will be determined by the state of the work required. Putting windscreen wipers on a Jaguar, isn't going to qualify to miss the 10%.

The only people who can solve this mess are Governments. Relying on the bosses or the 2% is going to make the problem worse.

Yes it is a big number. A huge amount of money going into the US to keep it afloat and make the Doomsday Preppers waste their time. Take it out and then they will be the guys who were right.

Everyone is pointing the blame here. I'm suggesting solutions. This I know for sure. $500,000,000 divided by 12 million is $41,666. An unemployed person on average gets $????. Not $41,666 a year. So a lot of that goes to pay civil servants, office workers and the costs of running the system.

So $500,000,000 is spread around and being spent in the US. IT HAPPENS IN OTHER PLACES. Cut taxes and all you do is move a slice of that money from Jim to John. There is no extra spending, none at all.

In fact if the money is cut. The cut adds to the unemployed. Simple to work out, shops wont take on anyone new to handle the extra business, the amount of extra good bought, that are made in the US will be negligible and the docks might take on a couple of guys. There is no boost to spending, no recovery. In fact it dumps us all in the shit a bit deeper. Except we will all be able to buy a new imported phone. :Oh crap

If you want to return online porn back to the same as 2000-2006, you have to get in a time machine or have the exact same conditions.

If you want to return the World back to the times of full employment or close to it, again you need a time machine or the exact situations of those times.

The issue could be solved and will have to be one day. Problem is it will need people to accept there are not enough jobs to go around in the system we currently run. Once that happens, there are two solutions. Form of communism where everyone working take a much lower wage so employers can employ more people. which will be a huge risk. Or we accept the world as it is and will be and give people who can't get a real job something in their lives to give the direction and a feeling of belonging to society. Blaming them for not feeling like they belong, is a weak argument. WHY^ don't they feel they belong. WHY do they prefer taking Meths?

Robbie, they can't all be selling it. :1orglaugh

I think everyone agrees that people scam the system, the problem that many try to point out, is the guys on the right "ONLY" focus on the low income whom scam while ignoring the scamming done by big business. In fact the right, almost tries to justify it when it's done by big business or the wealthy while damming the low incomes thieves.. Yet both are cheats & thieves.

I would love to flip the table on the whole 1% & 99% deal. I know how many on the right love to use the quote that the 1% pay more taxes.

I wonder if that same thing works in reverse on the scamming the system. I just wonder about all the tax dollars that are scammed in one form or another whom makes up the biggest recipient of that scammed money?

Do we really think it's those lazy rednecks in trailers or blacks in govt subsided apts with big screen TV's, or is it rich white CEO's & their corporations with off shore bank accounts that hide their investments over seas while getting maximum tax deductions? Whom do you really think the biggest criminals are?

and for the record. I was brought up in a family where everyone worked. My Grand Parents were working class, embroider and a market trader. My parents and many of my uncles became middle class. My brothers and I are.

I can't stop working, even if it's jigsaws I have to do something. Which is why I'm here, writing a book, got a blog. Even though I could do nothing, I'm so bloody work ingrained I have to work.

Now where did we go wrong with so many who don't have a similar ethic?

And the guys on the "left" ONLY focus on the poor who genuinely need help while totally ignoring the massive fraud and scamming that goes on.

As far as corporate scamming...that is not just the corporations. It takes TWO to tango. And their dance partners are the lifetime career politicians in Washington D.C.
The Federal Govt.
THEY are the ones who force us to give them our money in income taxes. And THEY are the ones handing it out for favors in return.

"left" and "right" are making bank in Washington D.C.

The federal govt. is spending 10.6 billion dollars a day. 4 billion of that is BORROWED money. Every day.

They haven't slowed down one bit through all of this. Not one bit.

The only thing that the "right" and "left" are arguing about is how much to INCREASE the spending next year. And if you INCREASE it less than they themselves predicted it to INCREASE...they call it a "cut" in spending.

Fucking thieves. And we are the sheep who keep feeding them. That's why I can't believe that anybody in their right mind thinks it's a good idea to raise taxes and give them even more money that isn't theirs.

Well I think at this point it's pretty clear.. We have become the Roman Empire it's now is only up to time to see how long it takes to finally fall. The only difference is the rest of the world will come down with us, including China whom most seem to think will be the next super power.

Corruption & Greed have pretty much ruined this country, so it's only a matter of time before it fails. The only smart thing they did, was to make sure everyone else would be just as fucked as we are once it finally happens.

I don't understand people like this.

I grew up in a "well off upper to middle class family" in NJ. We took vacations in Europe and has a vacation house in Canada. But my father died when I was a baby, and while my step father was a decent enough man, I left home at sixteen and never looked back. I ended up in the Marines and four years after that I landed in California - I did everything I could to stay on my feet and make ends meet. I started my day with a paper route (no kidding), worked at a restaurant till 2pm, then a fast food job until 9pm, and then at Target after hours.

I remember taking the bus through South and North Carolina when I was in the Marines and seeing how these people lived... And I could never do that.

I never said it was okay for rich white CEO's to milk off the govt tit. I think that needs to be stopped as well. Hell, Mitt Romney got a government bailout a few years ago and now he is railing against them.

There needs to be a reform of corporate welfare as well. Look at Ford. When the car companies went before congress looking for money Ford was right there begging for a handout. When congress finally told them what they would have to do in order to get the money Ford decided they had enough money to fun their own turn around so they declined the offer. That means they had enough money for this all along, but still came looking for a free handout.

It all annoys me.

Yes, but what is going to change it. Neither party is capable or willing to do it. I think it would take a zombie apocalypse at this point to change the world. I say world, because it's no longer a single country's problem but every country's problem because we are so interconnected.

Look at Egypt for example.. They had their uprising and govt has changed, but do you really think anything has changed in the long term outside of exchanging one ruling party for another?

You couldn't just leave it at this?
No, you had to throw in this part:
Why bother commenting at all, then? philosophical midgets... Please, cut the shit. Like you're having these socio-political discussions over trays of hors d'oeuvres with Noam Chomsky and Henry Kissinger at Washington cocktail parties, and not just reading a couple of fucking Lew Rockwell articles in between bong hits, jack sessions and blog updates. Aren't there enough condescending douchebag commenters on this board without you tossing in your condescending douchebag comments?

They have names for people who think they have a direct fucking pipeline to the truth, they call them Nazis, Jihadists, Assholes, Stalinists, Evangelicals, doctrinaire Libertarians, teenagers, etc. - which category do you fall under?

You are right. I finally took the plunge today and registered to vote as a Libertarian.

At least take a few minutes to check out his stand on the issues:
http://www.garyjohnson2012.com/issues

What he says makes a lot of sense to me. Maybe if enough of us said "fuck this" and took a stand we could maybe get some kind of real change in Washington.

In 2008 I voted for Obama's "Hope and Change" and believed him when he said he was going to "fix" Washington.
We all see how that ended up.

Maybe it's time for a REAL change and a President who isn't in either the Republican or Democrat party.

Check it out and see what you think. I'm voting Johnson on Nov. 6th

I assume that you are aware that even if he were to be elected he would be basically without power as he would be facing a hostile Congress and it is only Congress that can make changes and that controls the purse strings.

Of course the people can make Congress pay attention if they become proactive instead of remaining passive. The real power in this country lies with the people if and when they decide that they really do want a change.

The President still has to sign every bill...or VETO it. So he wouldn't be without power. But I know what you mean.

However, as Bush and Obama have shown...the President has a lot of backdoor ways to do shit without Congress.

I'm guessing he could pull all of our troops home without their consent. I'm also going to say that he could order his DOJ to stop all federal drug busts.

And who knows...being a guy with no ties to the Republicans or Democrats, maybe he is the guy who could get things done with Congress. God knows Obama hasn't. And if Romney is elected he will have a steep hill to climb with the Democrats.

They are only taking out their own money providing they don't live longer than a couple of years after they begin collecting SSA benefits...beyond that point they are taking out other peoples money.

I personally think that if a candidate from another party were to be elected it would be a good start as it should give the Democrats and the Republicans a wake up call...but until the people themselves wake up...and take a proactive interest...nothing is going to change.

I would bet that at least 90% of the people do not know the name of their Congressman or Senator...and I would bet that 99% have never contacted them to complain or approve of a single bill or about anything that the government is or is not doing.

I agree 100% that there is very little on the horizon that would lead us to believe anything will change anytime soon. Both parties are bought and paid for by big business so the government handouts to big companies will not stop anytime soon. Hell, both parties end up with people on their cabinets and making policy that are or were part of the same companies that are getting the handouts.

There won't be a change in the people as well. Many people who live in poverty have a mindset that they will always be poor and short of winning the lottery there is nothing they can do about it. Upward mobility is as much a mindset as it is a skill set. I have always aspired to work for myself. I have always done things on the side to earn extra money. The risk of not having a steady paycheck is one that is well worth taking for me. But there are a ton of people who don't feel that same way. Many are very happy working for someone else and many are happy doing whatever they can to work as little as possible. There is no election that can fix that unless those who are elected simply cut off those who are leeching.

I still feel that the actual number of people who are capable of working and simply choose to live on the system instead of working and bettering themselves is pretty small. To me the bigger problem is a general lack of education and training. There are a ton of people who graduate high school (or drop out) and get jobs only to find out that for many of them there is a ceiling on the amount they are likely going to earn and the types of jobs they can get. We don't put enough emphasis on higher education and training nor do we put enough emphasis on the evils of personal debt so many get jobs, get in debt and find themselves stuck.

Some of it too is simply the way our system is built. Capitalism is a pyramid. The higher you move up and the more you make the fewer of those opportunities there are. In order for the system to work you need worker bees. Walmart doesn't exist without all of their employees. The same can be said for any manufacturing company or any company that provides a product or service and employs many people to help deliver that product or service. The odds are these people are not going to make a lot of money, but they are needed to make that company run. We can't glorify the success of a business and then flog those who work for it because they don't pay enough into the system or ask for some extra help.

Bank Teller = ATM
Check out clerk = automated 'self-checkout' system
Driver = Autonomous Vehicle Software
Street Light / Exterior Electrician = Bulbs that now last 10+ years
Librarian = Google
Bookkeeper Accountant = Quickbooks and TurboTax
Simple legal instruments = LegalZoom

The amount of people needed to manage things has shrank quickly. It will only shrink more and faster as we move forward.
That is the nature of technology, it accelerates itself.

Anything repetitive can be automated.
90% of 'work' for most people comes down to repetitive tasks.
Walmart will exist with a skeleton crew soon.
A few people who fix the things that replaced all the other employees.

It is happening already all around us.

:thumbsup Yup. And what's more disgusting; a very poor person who steals, or a very rich one that does?

How many rich people murder others while stealing? How many poor people murder others while stealing?

That's how it works sometimes.

So what's the solution?

No the power will switch away from the West to the East. Other countries will become the customers. The new powers will be based on a few at the top and many underneath. Most empires worked that way.

Greed for consumer goods and the dream life did the damage. The West is running up bills because it lives in a style it can't afford. Take out the debt, borrowing and Government spending and the end will come faster. The West can't survive without it.

After the way the Stock Market crash of 1929 was handled we learned not to make that mistake again. We made the mistake of inflating the financial sector far beyond it's real value and when a pin burst the bubble. The weakness of the system around it was exposed. How many here before he crash were boasting about how much they were making in the dealings in the financial markets? you still see it in the buy gold or silver threads.

That's the life support America and other Western Countries are running on. Take it out and the Great Depression returns. And many in this thread will be broke within a year.
$1,456,000,000,000 is being pumped into the system to keep people thinking they're doing well. Can you imagine the knock on effects of taking it out?

It won't happen, neither Romney, Bush or anyone else is that stupid.

Unless The West can invest that money to start to grow, the West will sink.

And it won't be the fault of the kids dealing or taking meths.

Now what changed the mindset of people between 1970 and today?

Why shouldn't there be a ceiling? I'm serious. Why should people who have no special skills to give to society expect to get the American Dream of a house, two cars, wide scree TV, 2 holidays a year, etc?

If they want that life, they need to deserve it. Or their job goes East.

Agreed and those putting people out of work, expect them to live on scrapes. In fact some expect them to starve. Or is cutting the spending excluding cutting spending on poor to eat?

Those who can make money, need to go full steam and make it. AND expect to support those they leave behind.

Or build some gas chambers. :mad:

Nothing. I grew up in a small town in the 70's and 80's and knew a handful of people who lived off the system. I think there were the same number of deadbeats then as there are now. The difference is that now we have the internet and a 24 hour news cycle so more people are aware of it.



I have always said any job is worth what someone is willing to pay for it. If I were to hire someone to write a short story that I wanted to sell as an e-book I would pay some unknown person with no prior experience a hell of a lot less than I would pay Stephen King.

There are plenty of people who don't have much in the way of education who break through the ceiling, but for most they never will. You aren't guaranteed anything, you get what you earn.



I subscribe to the belief that you can tell a lot about a country and its people by how they treat their sick, old and poor. I personally don't have a problem with the government helping people who need assistance with food and housing etc so long as those people appear to be making strides for digging themselves out of the problems they are in if possible. If these people are disabled, sick, elderly etc then I think having compassion for them and helping them is money well spent.

Relentless makes points that I have been making for 30 years since my high school geography teacher was predicting the future of robotics/automation and globalization. I sat in my desk and wondered what do all the dopes do in the future. And his answer was of course 'retraining' and a shorter work week - wtf, who's going to pay somebody to work less?

Literally 75% of the kids I went to high school with were dopes, the die was already cast for their lives, they were happy to drink beer, fix up their cars, get some job and get married. Destined to be mechanics, waitresses, shoe salesmen, truck drivers etc. 40 years ago the town I grew up in had a big steel mill, a big pipe manufacturing plant and some other factories. Good jobs, lifetime jobs for their parents generation, jobs you could get married and raise a family on. Many of the dopes got those jobs, and the other dopes got jobs serving and selling them stuff. Those type of jobs have been declining for decades. So what happens to the dopes? A percentage of them can be trained to do other types of work and some of them get a wakeup call and create their own jobs - like adult webmastering. But it still leaves a big portion of the population for whom the economy can't provide the type of well paid job a dope can do. People always use exceptions to the rule as examples of how to deal with this problem - 'i knew this woman, divorced single mom living on social assistance, she made delicious pies from a recipe her grandma passed down, she set up a little stand to sell her pies in the summer, soon people were coming from 3 towns over just to buy her pies, today she owns 50 pie bakeries named after her grandma and is a multi millionaire!' There are lots of those self made stories but they are a small percentage, the exceptions.

So, what do you do with the growing number of these dopes for whom the economy has no jobs that provide a good living? A conservative would say 'fuck em, they made their own bed let them lie in it'. A liberal would redistribute some of the wealth possessed by the smart/motivated/fortunate.

There have always been dirt poor people in the US, Canada, the UK and any other 'first world' country and there always will be, that's just how things and people are. But as Robbie said, being poor today is a whole different thing than being poor 50 years ago. The poor of today live better than the middle class of 50 years ago.

:1orglaugh :1orglaugh :1orglaugh


:thumbsup

I disagree with you on this one. Today more people are being left behind. some of them through no fault of their own. They were laid off and can't find work. Stats show this to be true.

So outsource it to the Philippines maybe? Or just have loads and loads of people on the poverty line so you can make more money. We need to compete, but there are prices to pay.

Like me, my education is crap. I broke through the ceiling. Most won't, a lot will never get above a small wage. Westerners have to accept that.

Go tell that to the people in Detroit who used to work making cars. Maybe not the best example, but you'll understand.





However there are two sides to the coin. What does everyone on this board need more than anything else to make a living?

Where do most of them reside?

What is their average income?

Now. How is putting people out of work, cutting them out of the system going to add to your wealth?

Go study why the crash in 1929 had such devastating effects for the world and come back and tell us how just cutting the spending, shipping jobs overseas and putting more out of work on minimum wages is going to help anyone here.

Mutt,

It's the volume that matters.

When 5% of the population is out of work, or illegal immigrants are working poor people.. It's easy for many American to overlook them. However when it is more than half our population and many are hard working law abiding citizens... It becomes much harder. We are headed for massive unemployment on a global scale. More people in the world not working than working. All of those extra people are a big enough force to do a huge amount of damage. It is much easier to destroy than to create, especially in large numbers. It is time to figure out what to do with all the extra people and start doing something about it. A 32 hour work week is the fastest and easiest short term move. I am shocked it has not gained momentum already. If companies have to pay time and a half for all hours over 32 in a week, you'll see a lot of hiring. Sabbaticals and furlough programs would also make sense. There are other things that can be done, but it all starts with accepting the fact that we have more hard working people than there are jobs, and that the number of jobs will continue declining while populations continue rising. They aren't bums, hobos or idiots - they are extra people.

Imprisoning many of them is more expensive. Creating wars of choice is ineffective. Kicking them over and over when they are already down is dangerous. It's time we start to address it as a real issue, rather than just salving the symptoms it causes. In a few decades -population, water supply and extra people will be the main issues on everyone's mind.

A Libertarian is merely a Republican who wants to smoke pot and get laid.

:)

Pre-1997 maybe. Not post 1997 for sure. :2 cents:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of...tia l_tickets

I went to college for computer tech, and a few days before graduation one student asked me out explain to her how pop3 email works. I was a bit stunned.

She went to college, got a little degree in computer tech, and then... Went to become a secretary...

Relentless, so what solution do you propose?

those that work, should support those that don't, right?

No. Not exactly.

The definition of a week's work will change. Someone running their own business or trying to earn a lambo or wanting a mansion will open their own business and work 8 days a week just like many of us do now. That won't change. However, having people who work '9-5, 5 days per week' continue their 40 hour schedule will fail to make any sense soon. It already makes little sense. What you will eventually see is evolution to shift work, splits and shorter work weeks. People working 4 days or working 5 hour shifts instead of 8 hour days etc... And other people being hired to work the other hours in their place. From a societal standpoint it is better to have three people employed a total of 80 hours than to have two people employed a total of 80 hours and one sit home or out getting into trouble.

We need to shift our workforce back toward the notion of one parent working and one actually raising their children, rather than both working and their kids being warehoused. That requires a major change in the POV many Americans have about work and self-worth.

We originally created a slew of labor laws to stop children from working, prevent abusive labor practices and enforce a work week designed to create a minimum quality of life for the working poor. 40 hour work weeks, overtime pay, age requirements, safety standards, etc... However, it ALSO had the effect of limiting how much some people worked and 'created jobs' for many who otherwise would have been unemployed.

People who are incapable of being entrepreneurs don't need to own private airplanes, lambos, huge houses, summer homes, etc... but they do need to live better than our prison populations... and many currently do not. It is shameful that there are many people in this country actually starving or skipping meals for lack of money and lack of aptitude when we also are burning crops to keep prices high and producing more cheap food than paying customers can eat.

It all starts with a return to Nationalism and Patriotism. Screaming U-S-A-, U-S-A at a UFC event is not Nationalism. Saying 'support our troops' when you have no chance of being drafted and no idea why we are fighting a war is not Patriotism. Nationalism is making a serious effort to push our entire country forward, for the sake of the country not for what you get out of doing so. Patriotism is looking after your fellow Americans and doing what you can to help them reach their potential, without ragging on them for being less competent than you are or demanding things from them simply because they are more competent.

The poor are not ruining our country. Lazy people aren't ruining our country. Artists do not destroy our country. Obsolete employees whose jobs are no longer relevant don't wreck our country. Our country was badly damaged by some asshats who wanted to engage in wars of choice, left the 'free market' unregulated to the point where a handful of oligarchs severely damaged the world economy and pushed through nonsensical legal theories that allow things like Citizens United to become the law of the land. That is who is destroying our country. They aren't guys making 250K per year or even 1M per year... sadly they are exactly the people Mitt Romney has been working with over the years.... and Obama is funded by them as well. One exec at Goldman Sachs or Merill Lynch can do more damage in 10 minutes of high frequency stock trading than every poor person can do in an entire year. One idiot poor person can agree to a mortgage they can't afford... but one bank can create a program to lure in and sign up millions of those poor idiots. The scale of the damage is not equal.

In case you haven't figured it out, they use false dividing lines as distractions. Gay people Vs Straight people over gay marriage. The poor Vs the barely rich with meaningless 3% tax cuts. Angry militants Vs pacifists with false wars. One religion Vs whichever other religion. One race Vs whichever other race. As long as they can keep making the sheep think other sheep are the enemy, they can go on doing whatever they want and laughing their way to the bank. It is time to get off the retard-go-round and look into making SERIOUS changes to our systems if we actually want our country to prosper.

Real single payer healthcare aimed at efficiency is CHEAPER than what we had before or what Obamacare promises. A military that handles actual threats rather than cold war enemies who no longer exist is CHEAPER. Legalizing pot and gay marriage is the only logical outcome eventually... I'm not gay and I don't smoke pot... but I have a vested interest in not wasting so much time and money fighting either of those false battles, paying for prisons and riling up the LGBT community for no reason. An endless work week, no vacations and constant pressure makes sense if you are an entrepreneur trying to build a business - it makes 0 sense anymore if you are a dim wit looking to do an honest day's work for an honest day's pay. Income tax when you have money to buy something makes no sense compared to sales tax when you decide to spend that money. Capital gains rates lower than income rates serve 0 purpose. Nobody even discusses these fundamental problems. Instead they get caught up in whether Obama's wife wore a dress with sleeves or without sleeves. Rather than making fun of Romney's wife for owning an Olympic horse, we should have been focused on the fact that owning an Olympic horse included a larger tax break than most people get for having children.

We need to make serious changes if we want to fix serious problems. :2 cents: