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Mr Pheer

11-27-2012 07:40 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by PornoMonster (Post 19335591)

No not really, because when the police get there, they have you announce you are making a citizens arrest if you touched them.

Well in my State anyway!

Georgia's law concerning the detaining of shoplifters:

Quote:

51-7-60

Whenever the owner or operator of a mercantile establishment or any agent or employee of the owner or operator detains, arrests, or causes to be detained or arrested any person reasonably thought to be engaged in shoplifting and, as a result of the detention or arrest, the person so detained or arrested brings an action for false arrest or false imprisonment against the owner, operator, agent, or employee, no recovery shall be had by the plaintiff in such action where it is established by competent evidence:

(1) That the plaintiff had so conducted himself or behaved in such manner as to cause a man of reasonable prudence to believe that the plaintiff, at or immediately prior to the time of the detention or arrest, was committing the offense of shoplifting, as defined by Code Section 16-8-14; or

(2) That the manner of the detention or arrest and the length of time during which such plaintiff was detained was under all the circumstances reasonable.

Causing the guy to die was obviously not reasonable, but the store's employees and security agent were within their rights to physically detain him.

SilentKnight

11-27-2012 07:53 PM

Walmart shoplifting rate drops due to new store retribution policy.

brassmonkey

11-27-2012 08:01 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by topnotch, standup guy (Post 19335590)

Tussles with cops don't usually end well. More so if in the absence of neutral witnesses.

Best to just smile when Officer Friendly hands you the ticket.
.

well what if you toss some lovely words his way and he chokes your ass out? :helpme after he pushes a little .22 in your pocket

freakcore

11-27-2012 08:07 PM

The victim was a serial criminal with 16 arrest in the last 15 years. While this is a sad situation, only one person woke up that day with the intention of committing a crime. Due to his intention, 4 peoples lives are forever changed.

SilentKnight

11-27-2012 08:13 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by freakcore (Post 19335693)

Well said. :thumbsup

16 arrests in 15 years. Seems he wasn't very adept at his profession.

Rochard

11-27-2012 09:34 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by PornoMonster (Post 19335336)

In California, the following Penal code sections provide strict construction for arrests by anyone:

837. A private person may arrest another:

For a public offense committed or attempted in his/her presence.
When the person arrested has committed a felony, although not in his presence.
When a felony has been in fact committed, and he or she has reasonable cause for believing the person arrested to have committed it.

839. Any person making an arrest may orally summon as many persons as he/she deems necessary to aid him/her therein.

841. The person making the arrest must inform the person to be arrested of the intention to arrest him, of the cause of the arrest, and the authority to make it, except when the person making the arrest has reasonable cause to believe that the person to be arrested is actually engaged in the commission of or an attempt to commit an offense, or the person to be arrested is pursued immediately after its commission, or after an escape. The person making the arrest must, on request of the person he is arresting, inform the latter of the offense for which he is being arrested.

844. To make an arrest, a private person, if the offense is a felony, and in all cases a peace officer, may break open the door or window of the house in which the person to be arrested is, or in which they have reasonable grounds for believing the person to be, after having demanded admittance and explained the purpose for which admittance is desired.

845. Any person who has lawfully entered a house for the purpose of making an arrest, may break open the door or window thereof if detained therein, when necessary for the purpose of liberating himself, and an officer may do the same, when necessary for the purpose of liberating a person who, acting in his aid, lawfully entered for the purpose of making an arrest, and is detained therein.

846. Any person making an arrest may take from the person arrested all offensive weapons which he may have about his person, and must deliver them to the magistrate before whom he is taken.

Like to add Employees of a company have even greater powers.

Like you can carry a firearm without a permit, if that company allows you to do so.

I disagree. You can only make a citzen's arrest in the case of a felony. For example, if you see someone run a stop sign you cannot make a citzen's arrest. But if you see someone shoot another person, you can make a citizen's arrest.

You cannot make a citizen's arrest for a misdemeanor, which is what shoplifting is.

VenusBlogger

11-27-2012 09:37 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Doctor Dre (Post 19335011)

Killing someone on a choke must be hard. You need to hold it for a few mins (1-2) to do some serious dammage once the person lost conciousness. The guy wasn't trained proprely if he held it that long.

DRE, why do you have the same as AVATAR as SAIBER HASTLER?

well, I actually think SAIBER HASTLER must have copied you...

Mr Pheer

11-27-2012 10:01 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rochard (Post 19335772)

And once again... you making a citizen's arrest for shoplifting, and a store's employee grabbing and detaining a shoplifter, are two separate things.

DBS.US

11-27-2012 10:08 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by SilentKnight (Post 19335597)

WalMart's disappointed they didn't take out 'dead peasant' insurance on the shoplifter.

You know someone at the head office talked about that.:disgust

Mr Pheer

11-27-2012 10:12 PM

Just for Rochard, because I have a feeling he is going to keep saying a store owner or employee cannot touch you...

California Law concerning shoplifters:

Quote:

(f) (1) A merchant may detain a person for a reasonable time for the purpose of conducting an investigation in a reasonable manner whenever the merchant has probable cause to believe the person to be detained is attempting to unlawfully take or has unlawfully taken merchandise from the merchant's premises.

A theater owner may detain a person for a reasonable time for the purpose of conducting an investigation in a reasonable manner whenever the theater owner has probable cause to believe the person to be detained is attempting to operate a video recording device within the premises of a motion picture theater without the authority of the owner of the theater.

A person employed by a library facility may detain a person for a reasonable time for the purpose of conducting an investigation in a reasonable manner whenever the person employed by a library facility has probable cause to believe the person to be detained is attempting to unlawfully remove or has unlawfully removed books or library materials from the premises of the library facility.

(2) In making the detention a merchant, theater owner, or a person employed by a library facility may use a reasonable amount of nondeadly force necessary to protect himself or herself and to prevent escape of the person detained or the loss of tangible or intangible property.

Supz	11-27-2012 10:15 PM

Laura bush killed a guy

brassmonkey

11-27-2012 10:19 PM

this didnt happen in cali :1orglaugh

Mr Pheer

11-27-2012 11:12 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by brassmonkey (Post 19335814)

this didnt happen in cali :1orglaugh

Nobody said it did.

Rochard

11-27-2012 11:17 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mr Pheer (Post 19335807)

Just for Rochard, because I have a feeling he is going to keep saying a store owner or employee cannot touch you...

California Law concerning shoplifters:

Surely wouldn't be the first time I've been wrong.

Rochard

11-27-2012 11:28 PM

This is interesting...

Quote:

Because shoplifting poses a large threat to retailers, the issue of how far they can go in attempts to stop shoplifters has a long history.

Private citizens generally may not legally hold people against their will. Doing so opens the door to civil and even criminal liability for false imprisonment. However, many states have enacted statutes specifically authorizing stores and their employees to detain suspected shoplifters in certain circumstances. These laws serve to protect the stores from lawsuits claiming false imprisonment or false arrest.

Though these laws vary, store owners and their employees generally are allowed to detain an individual when they have probable cause to suspect shoplifting. However, any such detention of a suspected shoplifter must be reasonable in length and manner. Detentions without probable cause, for an unreasonable amount of time, or in an unreasonable manner may leave the store open to liability for false imprisonment and possibly other claims.

What constitutes probable cause to suspect shoplifting comes down to case by case specifics. Mere suspicion typically will not suffice. Most states require that the store or its employees have evidence which would lead a reasonable person to believe that shoplifting had occurred or was in progress. If the store bases its detention of a suspected shoplifter on information from a non-employee informer, that informer must have a reasonable basis for suspecting shoplifting.

The appropriate length of detention also comes down to case by case specifics. However, detention continued for the purpose of securing a confession from the suspect, or for the purpose of getting the suspect to sign a waiver of store liability, would be considered unreasonable under many states' laws. Such detentions could leave a store open to liability for false imprisonment.

In terms of the manner of detention, the use of excessive force may be deemed unreasonable. An unreasonable manner of detention could leave the store and its employees open to liability for false imprisonment and possibly other claims, such as assault or battery.

http://criminal.findlaw.com/criminal...oplifting.html

DAMNMAN

11-28-2012 06:27 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rochard (Post 19335096)

First off, the man was in the process of stealing so I could care less. I know that sounds harsh and that death is not a fitting punishment for stealing two DVD players, but I believe in Karma... You get what you deserve. If he wasn't stealing, he would still be alive today.

Also, I don't think he died because he was put in a choke hold. Most likely he had a heart condition or something.

And... store employees are not allowed to touch you. Ever. No matter what they are not law enforcement, cannot hold you, restrain you, or touch you in any shape or form. If they do, it's assault, plain and simple.

So if the store employees are not allowed (By Law) to put hands on a shoplifter, then the guys family will be rich. Plain and simple........ regardless of what he was doing.
Also:
If he was choked to death it was intentional, I see guys choked to sleep a couple of times a month in BJJ class and they are all still alive. When they go out ya let them go and then they recover in a couple of minutes.

tony286

11-28-2012 06:32 AM

Stopping someone from leaving is all fine.But beating shit out of him and causing his death is a different story. I dont understand why walmart doesnt hire off duty cops to deal with this for big shopping days. Fucking night clubs and office complexes here hire them. They are expensive but you got a armed cop working just for you.

TheSquealer

11-28-2012 07:18 AM

With 4,000,000 employees and being one of the worlds largest companies and definitely the largest in the world catering to thee worst elements of society, I would say its a mathematical certainty that this will happen from time to time. How many people did wallmart catch shoplifting that day alone in that store? I know that if all the merchandise stolen from wallmart annually went to another company to sell, it would put that company high on the Fortune 500 list.

Does anyone deserve to die for shoplifting? No. But how many people get chased out of wallmart's across the nation and restrained everyday? 1000? 5000? 10,000? How many per week? Per year? 1,000,000? One accidentaly died. Boo fucking hoo. Shit happens.

TheSquealer

11-28-2012 07:23 AM

Crazy that we now have a society where people think its ok to steal and no one should be able to stop you as you escape.

V_RocKs

11-28-2012 07:23 AM

Either way.... he deserved what he got... Stealing a loaf of bread? OK... Stealing because you are a shit fuck idiot? You deserve to die.

alex.missyouth

11-28-2012 07:31 AM

http://img59.imageshack.us/img59/9897/picture11gip.png
:1orglaugh :1orglaugh

Now seriosuly, is there really a need to use a choke fold on a guy? I mean, I'm sure the security guards were bigger than him and trained to immobilize him without using that. I think this was just an act of cruel nonsense violence, regardless of the fact that he was stealing two DVD players.

John-ACWM

11-28-2012 09:17 AM

Indeed Walmart is a scary place! :(

brassmonkey

11-28-2012 09:21 AM

ok picture this people. what if they thought you stole something and wrestled you to the ground? dead mistake? :Oh crap :helpme :disgust it can happen to anyone that shops there. :2 cents:

Tom_PM

11-28-2012 09:24 AM

Sad. But not as sad as the fat ass teacher who sat on a unruly student and he died. What was that, just a year or so ago? I'm betting these were typical overweight people leaning on the guy.. of course he's going to die. It's hard to tell when a struggle to escape has become a struggle for a breath.

RyuLion

11-28-2012 09:28 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Phoenix (Post 19334567)

i can imagine the lawyers rubbing their chops...if there is someone you want to sue....it is walmart

:2 cents::2 cents::thumbsup

mopek1

11-28-2012 09:32 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by freakcore (Post 19335693)

Due to his intention, 4 peoples lives are forever changed.

Not buying that for a second.

dillonaire

11-28-2012 11:01 AM

What im most shocked about is that this day and age someone was stealing dvd player!?!!? Dont they give DVD players out for free with the purchase of a DVD. Or go to the craigslist free section....im sure lots of people listing them for free.

brassmonkey

11-28-2012 11:26 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by gamelinkjeff (Post 19336490)

new in box = drugs he was strung out

TheSquealer

11-28-2012 01:19 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by brassmonkey (Post 19336359)

ok picture this people. what if they thought you stole something and wrestled you to the ground? dead mistake? :Oh crap :helpme :disgust it can happen to anyone that shops there. :2 cents:

It can happen to anyone who is being watched and tracked by loss prevention and followed out of the store as they try to run for it and need to be restrained.

They don't randomly stop people or do it by accident. Wrongly accusing someone of shoplifting is an instant "defamation of character" lawsuit/settlement. It isn't going to "happen to anyone that shops there" and the fact that you even suggest that shows how irrational you are.

:2 cents:

escorpio

11-28-2012 01:59 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by brassmonkey (Post 19334555)

its going to make his family rich :2 cents:

"Mmm hmmm, dat's right! Dis here be a lawsoot! We gon' git PAID!"

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