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Nevermind that, consider other benefits from being in the adult industry early, not only did you make money but the bank you deal with knows this, they see your income, your tax documents show what you earn, all this comes into play when you end up growing another adult business, you can take loans, you can find partnerships, you can find silent investors, etc And this guy definitely did not invest only 50-100k into his business. plus even the MINIMAL chance he did, this wasn't his first venture in adult So i think it holds true that there isn't a new company, only old companies expanding and growing. |
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or really deep pockets full of play money that you dont need |
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I know alot of people here think 10k/day site is big. So people are probably seeing this and thinking, well i have alot of traffic, maybe i should give it a shot. I'd say 95 percent of affiliates ive met who have traffic couldn't successfully launch a paysite nowadays. And most people who have traffic, well they could launch their own product but it'll still only be one product of the many you advertise on your website so its not like you having your own traffic is going to be huge, youre only one person. And its not as if you produce enough to completely fill a site, theres hardly any sites dedicated to a single sponsor, let alone site. You'd need to basically be as big as freeones to where your own traffic is big enough to matter But if youre saying, you better atleast have that ability, then sure. heh I think a more accurate statement would be, you better have a long history of experience in alot of areas in adult. (because by saying that, it generally covers people that have/had traffic) |
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sorry, i am just a producer, not an expert on traffic, otherwise my paysites would be way more successful :1orglaugh but lets make a little calculation for beginners, correct me when i'm wrong: lets say i have a paysite and in todays times i have heard about conversion ratios of 1:2000 from first page to signup and lets say i need 10 signups a day to be profitable - not counting rebills and shooting my own content thats 20,000 to my site and i heard that a CTR of 1% is quite good already so my traffic network would need at least 2 million uniques a day? |
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Impressions are easy to get though. Theres alot of places to get exposure. And yes hats my point, thats how big you have to be to where your own traffic matters, you will always need to rely on other people So having your own traffic doesn't really matter all that much unless you are atop of the best in that category but it atleast shows you have the understanding and learned some stuff along the way, so you can translate those skills into your paysites. |
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still sounds like a lot |
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If your video/content/ad isn't on the front page, your site that contains the traffic would need to more than 2m visitors to give you 2,000,000 impressions CTR is 'impressions - clicks through' Example, i have a solo girl affiliate site, i get 25-30k a day in traffic to that one and when i post a new gallery of one of my models, it doesn't get 25-30k impressions because they have to click on the thumb to goto the gallery before the CTR rate comes into effect. Well the CTR to the paysite that is. So what im saying, sometimes you would even need more than 2,000,000 a day to your network. |
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great idea with the content etc |
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They just threw up some nudie pix, and thought that surfers would just go sign up. Which they did for a long time. It took minimal or no skills, and for the better part of a decade they could get by doing little more than the next ape. Now you actually have to have a few bucks to your name, and some skills. Once you had 10,000 affiliates with the same exact galleries, chasing down the same exact traffic, going after the same exact surfers, you more a less starting thinning the herd and raising the bar. Adapt or die. If you do not know how to sell, and convert traffic, you do not belong in this business. :2 cents: |
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so i am not so far off with my calculation of traffic to get 10 lousy signups a day? |
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But the general theory that you need a TON of traffic to be able a good amount of sales for yourself is true. which is all it comes down to And yes your content has to reach millions+ consistently to get 10 signups a day. because the smaller sites with higher ctr rates dont have as much traffic and you need multiple paths because if you used the same paths, the ctr rate would drop alot (you would run that well dry in a sense). the more avenues, most likely the longer you'll get sales for. but with the more avenues, the worse ratio and ctr because you'd start having to use sites with a lower ctr that aren't quite as targeted basically if you want to use a few paths and get a handful of sales a day, you could do it yourself and keep ctr rate real low. but to reach the next level (and actually come out profiting to a point where you would call the program a success 10+ sales a day), you need to drive impressions up to millions+ I think the gap between small and medium is pretty big because you can always goto a few sources to get a few sales, but given the lack of obvious places to promote, you really need to know what youre doing to find the other 5-10 sales/day (thats when you start seeing ctr rate get worse) same goes for ratio. yeah its possible to produce sales on a good ratio and low traffic but once you get alot of traffic, you'll never keep that up, once you reach a successful level, the more saturated your content is and your ratios end up being much much worse but it doesn't matter because in the end, you see more sales. |
Learn how to sell first. Be a capable earning affiliate, and If you can kick ass, your success potential will be way higher.
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Especially given how hard it is nowadays, if you can succeed as an affiliate these days (from scratch), you would stand a pretty decent chance. |
I still look at the overall numbers. Even if you came in and learned the ropes as an affiliate, you look at the time investment you put into getting to the point where you can carry things over to the building of a pay site. On top of that, you still have to put up a lot of cash, and all for what? You?re looking at a limited return ratio, which could get even worse over time in the industry. I don?t know who in their right mind would want to jump in with those numbers unless you found a way to produce the content for free.
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I do find it interesting that consistently over the past 12 years of being around the industry the entry level to start a new paysite is always $50-$100k whenever a thread like this pops up.
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I actually said its more than that And launching costs will never change a TON because model/producer costs, etc - they've actually all remained quite similar in comparison to the drop that profits have seen. as they should, its not like theyre the ones making all the money the owner sucks up the profits that come with the decline of the industry. and where the producers feel the effect, they simply just dont find quite as much work but when they do work, they still make somewhat similar so for us paying them so we're still paying just as much to startup |
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You really think someone couldnt join the industry today and launch an affiliate program for less than $10k that actually made money? I'd even go one step further and say they could launch a program for less than $10k and break even in the first 3-6 months. |
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For the record, I started with 2 sites back in Aug '11 and then launched new sites as/when the profits from the original sites were there to do so. I didnt start with the $1m budget either, it was considerably smaller :) We are just launching our 8th site in a couple of weeks and plan to roll out a further 6 exclusive sites this year. I like to run a self sufficient company, quickly as possible. I get around 90% of my traffic from the tubes and convert it. Its not rocket science how I do it, I even wrote a guide that tells you how I get my traffic. You can check out my brands on YouPorn Channels: http://www.youporn.com/channels/most_popular/alltime/ My brands are #1, 2, 4, 5, 8 and 21 most popular of all time (since records started in 2007). It all in my guide!! |
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Firstly are you new? Secondly are you going to produce the content or buy non exclusive content? |
Woah, missed that you mentioned erospov.com - yeah I shoot content for the site. (I am obviously biased but) I think the content it alright.. shame that there is so little traffic to a site with quality content
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Even if it were say, a few hundred thousand dollars and you indeed paid that out of your pocket, thats classified as a big budget porn site. Then there are other things to consider like partners to help decrease startup cost, are you the only one with any ownership rights? i dont expect you to answer that if you dont like and truthfully, i dont know you so i wouldn't really 100 percent believe even if you said you didn't partner up with anybody to keep costs down. not alot of people have that kind of money in their pocket |
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Ive seen a couple real good sites in that niche that didn't have a real big budget backing it not take off that well recently. Its a tough one with artsy sites like sex-art, nubilefilms sinking money galore into them and its not generic porn, its still a niche so when theres companies that have most of the traffic, its tough. especially since it will never be cheap to produce that quality |
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My point was never that it was impossible. That its unlikely and that i couldn't think of any I'm still curious of your history in adult pre 2011. Its hard to imagine somebody coming in and just having this kind of understanding of promotion and affiliate program/paysite success. If youre leaving out the fact you worked for another company, well that is quite a big thing to leave out. Since my point was that the growth in this industry have been from people within ;) |
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Content sells, CCBill is cheap to setup (even with the $750 Visa and upcoming $500 mastercard fee) and traffic is free (for all intents and purposes) if he were to post about his new 50/50 revshare program using EXCLUSIVE content on boards like GFY. He already has content (being a producer) all he needs is a few tube style tour headers (which are around $150 a pop if ordered in bulk) and he's all set. By my calculations, thats potentially $1350 for processing and lets say he launched 10 sites, thats another $1500 so, $2850 total. Drop another $1-$2000 on filler content and he'd have a site with a members area to rival pretty much any PPS program in the marketplace right now, at least so far as content went. The rest he'd be able to figure out as he went along and, I would still say with less than $5k invested in his new affiliate program, he/she would break even within 3-6 months. That figure is a far cry from $50-$100k plus. We both know affiliates are fickle, they'd throw elephant shit at a wall to make a buck if they thought it would stick. |
Ive talked to a ton of producers in the past couple years, i really dont think most of them are sitting on a ton of content like you say, especially not content they have the rights to sell. If youre a producer, most content you have that is of quality, was shot to provide to somebody, and you most likely provided exclusive rights.
If its content youve been supplying with no exclusive rights, youre now working with saturated content and no experience. Even if you startup cheap, it wont go anywhere most likely However in this magical land where producers are sitting on all this unused non saturated content, sure they could do it for cheaper ;) |
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" Backed by over 4 years of data from running YouPorn.com and managing over 2,000 brands in the YouPorn.com Content Publishing Platform" ? lol so what this is telling me with a big budget, and a history of running youporn (one of the worlds biggest tube sites) with inside knowledge of how to convert on tubes, years of adult experience, you can succeed post 2010 :1orglaugh Im not taking anythign away from you, absolutely fantastic work. But you have to remember this isn't a thread about whether its possible to succeed, its whether its possible for a newbie to succeed. i simply question you being a newcomer/new company with a medium budget |
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Some producers actually produce their own stuff not for selling to other existing websites, but to broker on content stores. Content is always going to be salable, whether exclusively shot last month, or non-exclusive from 10 years ago, there is always a market segment for content in any genre of any age. If they produced it, chances are they understand that genre of content and most likely will have the basic ability to at least present it in a way that is appealing to that market audience. Then there is the angle that lets say he is just producing for other companies, he's a content producer, he has access to potentially hundreds of models, all the equipment needed and sets, he could easily kick out enough content to throw on a paysite tour in a week at least to get a site launched to affiliates, then during the first month, I'm sure he'd be able to do at least 1 other shoot per site to get next months update in place... If he was smart about it, he could do one shoot to cover multiple niches which would also off-set his production costs greatly... Lets not forget we work in the adult industry where perception and reality differ greatly from person to person and perception is typically what the industry operates on. |
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Also, that "inside knowledge" you speak about is all in the guide that I wrote. You can find it here: https://content.porntube.com . I follow this 100%. |
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I think you better know what youre doing and have a long history of experience if you think youre going to going to be profiting to the point of where you'd consider it a successful program with non exclusive content. While I understand there is still some businesses operating with non exclusive content, most of them have faded out, the ones that remain, have adapted in other ways and have consistently reinvested. Starting from scratch with no experience and non exclusive content. Thats just setting a newbie up for failure. Sure its cheaper, but youre odds diminish greatly. And when you gave a rough estimation of some prices, its easy to make it look like it will cost less. Thats the mistake most people make when launching a business, i can think of 15 costs that you left out. It adds up. and if we're talking exclusive and factor in location costs and model costs and hair costs and test shoot costs and props and wardrobe how about the income you pay yourself while you are spending all day and night setting up your business for 6 months atleast! (i'd say closer to a year for a newbie - starting from the moment they register the server) how about the few hundred dollar a month server bill that piles up from the moment you attempt to startup your business. Time is money and every month youre not profiting from your business, its costing you thousands how about the 5-6 other scripts that bill monthly until you actually get to the launch point? how about promo tools being designed, how about gas for driving models, how about eating out while shooting, how about paying for help on things you dont know |
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What sort of 'producer' are we talking, a serious producer that has all the stuff required to shoot exclusive content for a wide range of clients in the industry or; Paul Markham? If we're talking Markham level then yes, would definitely fail /thread |
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People usually order the cms so that you can do the integration into the design. Affiliate software, because only then do they realize what tools they can offer and what they need also these people generally think theyre going to launch sooner than they do, i think every person in adult can back that up, hell even us experienced people do that and to be honest, i suspect they get all tools they need to early, because like i said, they want all the things together so they can put the pieces together, sure you dont need everything at that very moment, but its easier to put the pieces together when theyre purchased and you open them and get an understanding of how they work hard to learn a piece of software without opening it |
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agree to disagree. you think a producer with no experience in running an adult website can launch a profitable business with 10 sites for 5k ;) I do not. I think its FAR more and that opinion is evident in my past posts |
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How many amateur sites have launched in the past with just banners, no programs like StrongBox, CARMA, etc, etc... I think now we're bordering on the lines between what a 'newbie' actually knows about and what they 'should' know about, most newbies aren't going to have a clue about CMS stuff, cascading billing, etc... Whilst these things do help generate income, they are not necessities in running a successful paysite, plenty of sites were successful prior to NATs, plenty of sites are successful post NATs... |
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Given the circumstances, I was just tying to correct that its not so cut and dry and wanted to make sure people didn't take your post like its no problem to launch a site these days with a modest and no experience Wasnt suggesting you were saying that :) |
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1) What should a paysite/affiliate have to help them succeed tool wise vs; 2) Can a newbie make a profitable paysite. We know about all these things, most newbies dont and wont until they get mentioned on boards, in private conversations, etc... So yes, I agree these things ARE needed to help the running of the business on a time-management scale, but they most certainly ARE NOT needed to help keep an affiliate program profitable for a newbie until they have grown to such a level where it is required. |
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very interesting thread!
And yes JT, you were not a newbie, so Pseudonymous is right :p would be good someone to post what are considered the normal start up costs, content/cms/design/dev.servers/aff.script etc Overall i personally agree that is very hard, close to impossible for a total newbie as things are right now. Its all relative though. What a total newbie in the end is? Someone that has no idea of the industry nor of the web nor of shooting nor of marketing and wants to start making money right away with zero investment without teaming up with anyone? I think this hardly can happen in any industry anyhow... Can someone make a successful design agency without knowing photoshop nor hiring designers? Its always product+marketing+sales... When you can do only 1 of these and dont have the means to hire people to do the other 2, then you sell your product/service to others that need it, as much as you need them or you team up. Adult was a goldmine but this was meant to stop at some point as in any other industry, goldmines dont last forever. |
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