100 successful newbies!

Interesting thread.... Some bad info though.

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There is no doubt that it is tougher to launch a new paysite than it has been in the past.

true, i think Porno Dan makes great $ from the shows in streamate also, hbo and other revenue streams etc

gotta keep gfy biz thread of year 2013 & 2014 alive

I don't make great money, but I do have a profitable company that grows every year.

I have been able to grow my company is because I don't rely on one or two revenue streams.

All of my production is shoot live and shoot on Streamate and broadcast on http://immorallive.com/

I take that same content and when edited it and it goes up on my subscription site in the http://howigotrich.com/ program.

I also release that same content on DVDs through Pure Play Media and video on demand via AEBN

As Panos mentioned I have had two seasons of a HBO reality TV show about me, which has increased the exposure of my company

Hustler TV picks up the best of my movies and broadcasts them too.

It is the combination of all of these revenue streams that has allowed me to grow my company.

That and you are not new, if what dirty d said is true and those are infact your sites. They are not new and would be FAR from classified as a new company. You would be an old company that is expanding and adapting, outside of paysites.

Completely different. You have to remember that what you are seeing in growth is within the industry and thats what we are trying to prove to put things into perspective. This thread was created to see if its possible to create a new business without a long history of adult experience or a massive budget. People tend to not think much about it because you see new programs and sites popping up all the time, so you just assume the odd one is a new person, well they are not. That is something im trying to shine some light on because it better helps answer the original question

Either way, keep up the good work Porno Dan :) I dug a little and noticed your other revenue streams were your new avenues and your old ventures were traditional paysites, thats why i didn't think your money was in traditional paysites given you have moved away from it, or so it would seem

There are too many variables.

How long is it going to take that person from scratch to get to the point of launch, thats one of the biggest things because you have to pay yourself somehow in that time. If you factor in that as a cost, the overall cost goes up alot. Unless you are collecting EI or disability or some other avenue that requires no time/effort to accumulate that money. You are most likely burning through your own money. And people always underestimate how long it takes from first step.

Hardcore or softcore, amateur or professional style content. Exclusive/semi exclusive/non exclusive. Purchasing or producing yourself. How much content do you launch with. The amount somebody launches with varies so much. Ive seen anywhere from 5 sets to 50-100 sets. Solo, you can get away with less. Partnership with the model (solo) or paying models out right. How long you shoot at a time. When you shoot day by day, location costs go up more than if you were to rent a place for a month and shoot everyday.

What you already have, do you have your own equipment or do you need to purchase that, you supply wardrobe or models do? Are you a producer or do you have to hire one everytime you shoot?

The less you know about affiliates and who to goto, the more money you spend on a marketing budget for bringing in organic traffic/sales

I could go on and on but you get the point.

Though im sure if you gave a specific plan, it'd be easy to give a good accurate estimation.

No offense, but considering he gives the information away for free to anyone that wants to learn how to do it themselves, you cannot make the case that a newbie couldn't take advantage of that information, and on a small budget, make a successful site that is profitable in a few months.

The info is out there for everyone to know how to create a success and I was going to post that I believe anyone could become profitable on far less than what cost of entry would have been 5, 10, even 15 years ago. However, I am humbled with respect for Ruseful's input, because I can't imagine anyone with a better perspective that is more willing to help.

Have you checked it out for yourself? This is like saying there are guides on how to be a millionaire so theres no excuse as to why you aren't one. While there may be something you can take from that but if you think i could pass that onto a newbie and they'd all of a sudden be successful, then thats absurd. What he is explaining is only going to sink into one who already knows what they are doing to some extent and only beneficial to somebody who has a product that can be marketed on tubes and convert. Somebody new to the industry isn't going to even pass the billion steps in order to get to the level of profiting from tubes.

I can go on and on about why his guide isn't exactly going to carry anyone into success. While it may be helpful, its far from giving anybody the same experience he had.

Does his guide take into account a unique expensive product. You do realize his budget and how good his product is correct?

His method worked because he had an outstanding product which isn't cheap to do. Tubes have always been known for that, if there is one thing you can make money on when it comes to tubes, is having a unique product or of very high quality. You can try over and over to to market a mediocre product on there in the EXACT same way and not see any success.

I could give a guide to exactly how i marketed my business too but if you don't have the exact product i have, it's hardly going to be a guide to success.

If his guide was some all his experience in adult packed into some exploding box of knowledge, then we need to make a sticky thread on gfy about this and get it out there!

I do not want to take away from what he may have put into a guide which it may appear what im doing but a guide is meant to take pieces of information from it and come out making more money than you would before, you can never just simply reduplicate somebodys success from a how to guide. hah

Unless his guide said, be in adult for many years and work for the one of the biggest tubes in the world where one manages the content program, learn exactly what kind of content would do well on there, make an expensive product, be driven and skilled enough to put all the pieces together and follow these marketing techniques he did, its hardly a road to success.

Ruseful, i went to the link you posted, i dont see a guide. Just a content publishing program. Can you point me in the right direction.

How do you figure that? From what I see the costs of entry has only risen. Not only does your product have to be better now, but so does your expertise in all the other areas.

So far, for everyone that has said yes it is possible, you seem to have a flip side of the coin as to why it isn't.

Ultimately, many of us know what the costs of starting paysites are in both reality and 'webmasterland' it just depends on which version of reality you want to go with...

Like I mentioned yesterday, the 50-100k price point for starting a new website today, with nothing else on hand is ridiculous, I know many paysite owners who have started on a shoestring budget that do well enough to survive off their paysites, meaning no second job, have a roof over the heads, clothes on their backs and food in their stomachs.

Define successful, for me any business venture that consistently turns a profit is successful, whether its online or a bricks and mortar offline business.

I'll agree with that. However, no one thus far that I can see has named a single program in the last 2-3 years that has successfully done what you claim. This is my only reason for doubting. Show me the evidence of people starting on a shoestring today (with nothing else on hand) and making it and I'll be the first to admit I was wrong.

Webmaster Advertising, what is your paysite network, have you produced content, have you created one that has got off the ground, have you launched anything in the past 5 years, what is your experience and if you do not have a paysite network, why not? Given the quoted costs you've given and the 3 months it takes to make your money back, why wouldn't you launch this, since a site only takes months to throw up if you know what youre doing and been in adult for a while, which you have been no?

For somebody trying to make it sound extremely cheap and easy and could potentially be leading newbies into an expensive path, i figure people should know these things. I have my experience (well enough of it) in my sig. All launched post 2011

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Actually, I don't need to check it out, nor does anyone else, for the information is still readily available in other places.

As for your assessment of his product, you agree that the product is good, but don't realize the cost to produce that content was minuscule? I do. Not only that, I also am aware of how many others have produced similar content in the same niche and totally banked as well or conversely tragically failed to achieve similar success.

To me, a lot of this comes off like "the world is flat" rhetoric from people that are only seeing this from the perspective of what did or did not make sense to them based on the degree of success they had trying to make sense of the path to success.

As I have seen for years, the ones that actually had a business plan, based on study and research, analytic, factual, and data driven, not molded by so called "consensus", were far more successful than those paying the wages of trial and error.

:2 cents:

Miniscule? Who said this? You think the investment JT put into his business before it made money was miniscule? The owner came in here and didn't mention price, he came in here and said it was well below 1,000,000, i wouldn't even call a hundred thousand miniscule. If you think the cost to produce high quality content and hire 4 people is miniscule, well thats simply not true. And the only reason he even did it at the cost he did was because he was experienced in the industry. But i guess anybody can be experienced, because the information is "readily available" lol

Information is readily available to learn anything, that has absolutely no relation to how likely it is they can become a professional.

So what are you trying to debate here anyway? That it can easily be done as a newbie? Because thats simply not true. There is a reason that new people used to come into this industry quite often and it suddenly stopped. It became gradually harder to the point where it didn't make sense for a newcomer to invest alot of money in a far fetched attempt to learn a new industry.

I figure it based on first hand knowledge and years of experience.

I started out as "talent" in this biz. I have done everything from picking up the condoms after the shoot... which is a serious lesson in humility... to owning a company that has a brand that is established worldwide with a name that means the same thing in any language.

I think someone can become reasonably successful with almost zero start up costs if they are also willing to perform on camera. Now you might not be including that arrangement in your foregone conclusions, but I have the benefit of intimate knowledge of that potential scenario for success and feel it should be included in the discussion.

I am not saying that is prerequisite, but it would be the way to reduce start up costs to almost zero. However, even a tiny production budget could yield enough success to grow into what Ruseful has achieved. He can say how cheaply he created those scenes, but I know how they could probably be done for even less.

On a side note,I don't understand what people are bemoaning here... I personally am glad that there are many that try but few that succeed and will not apologize for it or wish it were any other way; things are tough enough with the amount of smart successful people in the biz already... :winkwink:

I have heard this for years and yet every year someone comes along that surpasses my expectations and proves you wrong.

Would you call a start up cost of $1000 minuscule? I would. I also believe someone could easily make five times that or more in a month if they executed wisely. I am not saying it would be easy. I am saying it would not be hard for someone that actually thinks of it as a business and treats it as such.

Huh? How does being talent yourself reduce the costs to nearly nothing?? You still have to pay the female talent, no? I know very few models who will perform for free!

I think youre misundersanding people in this thread if you think theres a bemoaning attitude.

I am quite happy about the state of the industry, i think it takes a real damn smart business minded person to start a business now, it also takes money. Theres no more cutting corners and cheaping out and still succeeding. You have to do things properly.

I succeeded post 2010 in a business model that is far from its peak.

The point wasn't 'the industry is dead and good luck.'

This thread is for tempering expectations, giving insight into budgets needed, and letting people know you need alot of experience and knowledge of marketing and running an adult business before investing into an area that is far from its peak.

Nobody is complaining or bitching in here.

Nor has anybody said you can't.

The likeliness somebody new to the industry with no prior experience can break in with a modest investment (into paysites) is extremely slim and denying that is just silly.

Coming from somebody who started AGES ago and gained experience doing just about everything, i find it interesting you think you could start scratch with no knowledge and invest a bunch of money and succeed. Maybe its because you soaked up knowledge over a long time from now , you dont know how much information you actually retained

Maybe you need to re read the thread, ive already mentioned many times you can make it into this business. You can make money. Theres no denying theres many avenues to make money

The original poster said, can you make it into the paysite business and still make good money as a newbie. Im sure youre even talking about paysites because hell, even getting approved by mastercard costs 750, so theres 750 of your 1000 budget ;)

I talked to him in private and mentioned in this thread, 5,000/month is something he considered GOOD money which is similar to what i had in mind when he made the thread. So all my posts are with that in mind.

And if you think it is likely a newcomer can make good money in paysites these days, starting from scratch. I welcome giving one single website that got in in the past few years and made decent money with a modest startup cost. Big industry. Should be pretty easy if its so simple. You seem to laugh at the idea so you must know a bunch ;)

Yes.

You are confined to the narrow idea that talent only comes from agencies and agencies charge a fee and models get paid xyz to perform for a day, an hour, a scene, whatever.

We work with people all the time that don't hire models and get people to work on spec. One of our most popular series was shot by a guy that would sometimes literally pay his models with a pair of new shoes worth less than $100 bucks.

This conversation is getting a bit ridiculous, you have people like Far-L and Webmaster Advertising talking about how you can go in without content management systems , without affiliate software, without paying models more than a pair of shoes. And still succeed to where your paying your bills and profiting and banking money.

People are coming in here to try to debate in order to be correct about something. Despite if theyre reaching.

Coming up with ideas of how its POSSIBLE to launch a profitable paysite does not prove that its not hard and unlikely for a newcomer to start a business post 2010 without experience.

The fact remains its extremely hard and we as an entire forum here, have yet to come up with one single website that has made it successful with a modest investment since 2010.

I truly think Far-L underestimates how much knowledge hes picked up in the many years of running paysites, he launched his network what, a decade ago? and now the idea of launching a paysite network seems easy to him, wonder why ;)

Wow, you guys are so generous!

Why does someone starting out have to have a ton of content? One can start with a single scene, shoot it live to a cam audience, then sell it on every clips4sale type site, license it to a few companies, sell to a dvd distributor, etc.

That one 1k investment in a half decent scene has the potential to raise the capital necessary to pay the next step off without further investment. Lather. Rinse. Repeat.

With enough scenes accumulated then you move into pay sites which is essentially a macro version of what you did to get there in the first place. Create site. Exploit it in all ways. Work a niche until you have earned enough to launch another. Lather rinse repeat.

Did you read the original post and what this discussion is about, this isn't a "this industry sucks" thread.

This thread is regarding the state of paysite networks and investments needed and is it possible to launch one today and made GOOD money.

Selling on clips on clips4sale isn't a paysite/membership business model

If youre telling me that somebody can come in, sell one clip, make money on that, get two clips, make money on that, eventually save up for a paysite, make money on that, rinse and repeat all that until theyre successful.

Oh jesus. Lol you really are reaching, at no point would they find themselves failing or i dont know, not making profit?

Doesn't that go back to me telling them you should be experienced before attempting to launch a paysite business?

If they did that, then theyre experienced and have proven successful in adult. So they would no longer be a newcomer.

We work with independent producers that pay the models. We do not hire models or negotiate their rates for productions. We have made some of our producers well over 6 figures. Do you think they are mad about how stingy we are?

But yes, I guess for the record we are cheap bastards. You have a problem with that? Because last time I looked, the way things work in business is you keep cost down to maximize profits.

Did something change and I didn't get the memo?

Just thought it was amusing the models getting paid with shoes

Yes, I read the entire thread actually. I even saw a lot of sense in your original post; although I disagreed with it upon reflection. My points are outside the box of what you are assuming to be true, but they are not less valid. Ruseful saw what reviewed and viewed well on YP. He created content, cheap to produce, to appeal to that niche, then he built upon that. Anyone can look at the same information on any tube site and see what is doing well and try to mimic it. Many will try. Few will succeed but that has more to do with a lack of professionalism than a degree of difficulty imo.

You know, it is easy to present something like this and think it is left wide open for discussion but the more the discussion goes on the more it becomes about limiting the variables so that only one argument/theory/postulate is seemingly fact, which usually it is not.

lol

It has been over a decade and I still laugh about it!

Then I cry... realizing I can't get a women to have sex with me for any less than 1 million and a pair of Louboutins...

I dont think ill get anywhere with people who see things like you and Webmaster Advertising do.

I simply dont believe a newcomer to the industry can simply look at what these people are doing and duplicate it. I dont believe thats possible in most scenarios, not just for newcomers

I also dont see eye to eye with you when it comes to what is 'cheap' - i do not believe what he spent on those .xxx sites from the ground up was 'cheap'

I think you guys underestimate experience and what you have picked up over a great deal of time

So I will again back out of this conversation for now.

No worries, I should back out first. You were in the thread from the start and seemed to enjoy being right until people came in and said it could be done for a reasonable investment ( still undefined in any real detail other than a bunch of disagreed upon opinions).

I still agree that it can be done with a very modest budget and a good amount of due diligence and I still think you are unfairly narrowing the scope of what is relevant. For example, any pay site operating today makes money not just on memberships but also typically on a diversified strategy of traffic trades/sales, complimentary upsells like cams/products, etc. so why is the concept of what it takes to make money on a paysite only limited to the actual paysite and not the apples on the same money tree that could also make it feasibly possible to pay for the creation of that same pay site?

You are hypothesizing that it would be difficult based on a criteria that only exists in a non-existent universe where only paysite money would be tallied at the end of the day when counting the receipts received in the course of business.

no disrespect, but from my past conversation with your partner i know that you guys have a very different understanding when it comes to paying people who shoot for you. it seems to work for you, so more power to you. but at least for professionals it's a little embarrassing what you offer.

Agreed.

1. You can hire a model for $100-250.00 and get 5-10 scenes out of them. I did not say HQ porn. I said original content.
2. You do not need a fancy CMS to start. You can do PornCMS or MechBunny or even WP.
3. You do not need an affiliate program, or the hassles, if you can drive your own traffic.

That said, I am not saying you are going to have an easy go doing it all on the cheap. I am not saying I recommend trying to do everything on the pennies plan as there is endless frustrations doing it this way. I am simply saying that it can be done. It will take you a lot longer to scale up doing this method, but you can easily shoot your own content and start a clip store with $1000-3000.00 between models and used equipment. Once you start making some money over a period of time, you launch a pay site, and then scale up from there. Add in more pay sites, shoot or purchase semi exclusive content, make a network pass, and so on and so forth.

I did not say it would be easy, nor that you will be a millionaire doing it this way. But you can make a decent living if you treat it like a job, and with minimal investment at the start. It will take a lot of hard work, and you will have to put in the hours to learn, tweak, trial and error. But you can be working full time in this industry as a start up.

All of this considered, I feel few have what it takes to make it in this business from a work ethic point of view. For every 100 who try, maybe a handful will make it. Not because of the business climate so much as the fact they just do not have the drive and work ethic to make it work.

:2 cents:

Not to hijack, but

MaDalton! Why have you not gotten involved in my Paul Markham thread?

https://gfy.com/showthread.php?t=1092778

https://gfy.com/showpost.php?p=19411968&postcount=52

Free Paul!

What Universe are you and Far-L living in that you can shoot a model for $100 - $250 and get FIVE to TEN scenes out of them? WTF? Seriously what country is that in?

Who are these models??? Can you post an example that has done 5 - 10 scenes for $100 - $250?

I'm not trying to come off like a dick, I'm just astonished (and jealous!) if that's true. Certainly very difficult to do that here in Los Angeles.

You live in Los Angeles. I live in a midwest college town. That is the difference. Supply and demand.

:2 cents:

Ok, so can you post pics of a model or two that has done these shoots?

I see. Any pics with dicks in their mouths, rather than feet? Perhaps that's where you saved the $?
I could be wrong, but I'm guessing you're not talking about 5 - 10 hardcore bg scenes?

We own over 200 paysites has it happens, all processing through CCBill.

No affiliate program, as we simply don't need one, nor the added hassles that come with an affiliate program, we do however have a client that is looking to launch several tube style sites in the next few months with a program attached.

I have no need to validate myself on a message board, I'm simply posting advice, for free, put as much or as little weight on that advice as you wish.

I can tell you though, having been in the industry for many years, I can currently design a simple paysite within 30 minutes, get it ready to process within a few days and have it making sales and have broken even within 2 days of Visa approval at CCBill, I have the backend software in place to assist me with that process though.

Like I said, not looking for validation, just saying, it is possible to do, you just have to be smart about it and launching multiple paysites and an affiliate program for less than $5k and being able to survive off the earnings is very possible, even today.

At no point did I say I shot B/G and hardcore scenes. I said I shot models who shoot porn scenes I make money on.

Nor do you only need to shoot hardcore B/G scenes to make money in the adult online industry.

As was previously stated. There is a lot of preconceptions and misinformation in this thread.

:2 cents:

So as to reduce misinformation and be clear rather than evasive, what type of porn scenes DO you shoot, that you get 5-10 of them for $100 - $250?

Sorry toots. I am not here to educate you on your business model preconceptions. Nor am I being evasive.

Most people on this forum know what I do and do not shoot, and have done for over a decade now. This is not top secret. Just because you do not know this does not mean I am maliciously doing anything of the sort. There are plenty of others on this forum, besides me, who can shoot fetish content (which is also considered porn) for pennies, and get a sizable return on investment.

This is neither a new concept, nor rocket science. It ultimately comes down to a geographical advantage in labor costs.

:2 cents:

Huh? Dude, I'm just asking what type of scenes you shoot! I'm not saying it's a secret, but it's also easier to just ASK you then going search on the board for it. I don't see why you don't just say it?!?! I'm not doubting you, just don't understand why the mystery?

Did you look at Barefootsies pics?
The content is non-nude foot fetish stuff.
So his numbers are correct for his content.

You can have a budget of $500 per hardcore b/g scene and be very successful.

I PRODUCE fetish content and have done so for over a decade shooting for price I told you. Getting 5-10 scenes per shoot.

I also license additional mainstream porn niches from other producers, DVD's, and so forth.

I need to move to FL and smoke some reef with you again.
$500 budget, how much of that for the girl?

:thumbsup

Although we have gotten some women down to clam diving and fully nude for $250.00 and still get 4-5 scenes.


:winkwink: