Yes.

No.

I'm not going to do either, but if a PRODUCER is going to launch a paysite, I would image they already have shit tons of their own content they can use to launch sites...

Content sells, CCBill is cheap to setup (even with the $750 Visa and upcoming $500 mastercard fee) and traffic is free (for all intents and purposes) if he were to post about his new 50/50 revshare program using EXCLUSIVE content on boards like GFY.

He already has content (being a producer) all he needs is a few tube style tour headers (which are around $150 a pop if ordered in bulk) and he's all set.

By my calculations, thats potentially $1350 for processing and lets say he launched 10 sites, thats another $1500 so, $2850 total.

Drop another $1-$2000 on filler content and he'd have a site with a members area to rival pretty much any PPS program in the marketplace right now, at least so far as content went.

The rest he'd be able to figure out as he went along and, I would still say with less than $5k invested in his new affiliate program, he/she would break even within 3-6 months.

That figure is a far cry from $50-$100k plus.

We both know affiliates are fickle, they'd throw elephant shit at a wall to make a buck if they thought it would stick.

Ive talked to a ton of producers in the past couple years, i really dont think most of them are sitting on a ton of content like you say, especially not content they have the rights to sell. If youre a producer, most content you have that is of quality, was shot to provide to somebody, and you most likely provided exclusive rights.

If its content youve been supplying with no exclusive rights, youre now working with saturated content and no experience. Even if you startup cheap, it wont go anywhere most likely

However in this magical land where producers are sitting on all this unused non saturated content, sure they could do it for cheaper ;)

Sorry, I naturally assumed you would have read my background on www.ReallyUsefulCash.com

" Backed by over 4 years of data from running YouPorn.com and managing over 2,000 brands in the YouPorn.com Content Publishing Platform"


? lol so what this is telling me

with a big budget, and a history of running youporn (one of the worlds biggest tube sites) with inside knowledge of how to convert on tubes, years of adult experience,

you can succeed post 2010 :1orglaugh

Im not taking anythign away from you, absolutely fantastic work. But you have to remember this isn't a thread about whether its possible to succeed, its whether its possible for a newbie to succeed.

i simply question you being a newcomer/new company with a medium budget

Some producers actually do still keep DVD distribution rights for stuff they shoot.

Some producers actually produce their own stuff not for selling to other existing websites, but to broker on content stores.

Content is always going to be salable, whether exclusively shot last month, or non-exclusive from 10 years ago, there is always a market segment for content in any genre of any age. If they produced it, chances are they understand that genre of content and most likely will have the basic ability to at least present it in a way that is appealing to that market audience.

Then there is the angle that lets say he is just producing for other companies, he's a content producer, he has access to potentially hundreds of models, all the equipment needed and sets, he could easily kick out enough content to throw on a paysite tour in a week at least to get a site launched to affiliates, then during the first month, I'm sure he'd be able to do at least 1 other shoot per site to get next months update in place... If he was smart about it, he could do one shoot to cover multiple niches which would also off-set his production costs greatly...

Lets not forget we work in the adult industry where perception and reality differ greatly from person to person and perception is typically what the industry operates on.

I didn't jump in on the thread to say that I was newbie and I succeeded, I only posted to point out why Gamma was on the domains registration, and then answered subsequent questions, so i wasn't the one that put my own name out there (cheers MaDalton lol) :)

Also, that "inside knowledge" you speak about is all in the guide that I wrote. You can find it here: https://content.porntube.com . I follow this 100%.

I understand where youre coming from but i think what youre saying makes more sense in theory.

I think you better know what youre doing and have a long history of experience if you think youre going to going to be profiting to the point of where you'd consider it a successful program with non exclusive content. While I understand there is still some businesses operating with non exclusive content, most of them have faded out, the ones that remain, have adapted in other ways and have consistently reinvested. Starting from scratch with no experience and non exclusive content. Thats just setting a newbie up for failure. Sure its cheaper, but youre odds diminish greatly.

And when you gave a rough estimation of some prices, its easy to make it look like it will cost less. Thats the mistake most people make when launching a business, i can think of 15 costs that you left out. It adds up.

and if we're talking exclusive and factor in location costs and model costs and hair costs and test shoot costs and props and wardrobe

how about the income you pay yourself while you are spending all day and night setting up your business for 6 months atleast! (i'd say closer to a year for a newbie - starting from the moment they register the server) how about the few hundred dollar a month server bill that piles up from the moment you attempt to startup your business. Time is money and every month youre not profiting from your business, its costing you thousands

how about the 5-6 other scripts that bill monthly until you actually get to the launch point? how about promo tools being designed, how about gas for driving models, how about eating out while shooting, how about paying for help on things you dont know

Other than hosting, which can be picked up for around $100 a year, what else is there?

I edited my post and mentioned some of them

Such as? Id love to know anyone who purchases scripts before they are actually ready to utilize them, that is just bad business.

Guy launching this site or sites is a producer, he already has access to all of that stuff... Not seeing where the extra cost involvement is myself, maybe I'm missing something?

What sort of 'producer' are we talking, a serious producer that has all the stuff required to shoot exclusive content for a wide range of clients in the industry or; Paul Markham?

If we're talking Markham level then yes, would definitely fail /thread

You need to get these things asasp to get an understanding, these people haven't worked with a cms, or any of these scripts before, do you expect them to only pay for them just before launch time?

People usually order the cms so that you can do the integration into the design.

Affiliate software, because only then do they realize what tools they can offer and what they need

also these people generally think theyre going to launch sooner than they do, i think every person in adult can back that up, hell even us experienced people do that

and to be honest, i suspect they get all tools they need to early, because like i said, they want all the things together so they can put the pieces together, sure you dont need everything at that very moment, but its easier to put the pieces together when theyre purchased and you open them and get an understanding of how they work

hard to learn a piece of software without opening it

LOL ok well im done with this debate.

agree to disagree.

you think a producer with no experience in running an adult website can launch a profitable business with 10 sites for 5k ;)

I do not. I think its FAR more and that opinion is evident in my past posts

A newbie is going to be updating his websites by hand the first few months, at least until they have made enough money to invest into a CMS or had someone do a install of WordPress to handle their members area.

They have already signed up to CCBill to handle the processing, no affiliate software needed, as for promo tools, they can post on any of the industry message boards and find out the php code (for free) to create hosted galleries, free sites, etc, etc..

I suspect if they did, then they would fail. Most people wait until the month of their launch to get any type of scripting installed, if they use any at all until they have established a positive cash-flow. No need to spend money before you NEED to spend money.

How many amateur sites have launched in the past with just banners, no programs like StrongBox, CARMA, etc, etc...

I think now we're bordering on the lines between what a 'newbie' actually knows about and what they 'should' know about, most newbies aren't going to have a clue about CMS stuff, cascading billing, etc... Whilst these things do help generate income, they are not necessities in running a successful paysite, plenty of sites were successful prior to NATs, plenty of sites are successful post NATs...

Given the circumstances, I was just tying to correct that its not so cut and dry and wanted to make sure people didn't take your post like its no problem to launch a site these days with a modest and no experience

Wasnt suggesting you were saying that :)

My point is, i think we've crossed over in the debate of...

1) What should a paysite/affiliate have to help them succeed tool wise vs;
2) Can a newbie make a profitable paysite.

We know about all these things, most newbies dont and wont until they get mentioned on boards, in private conversations, etc...

So yes, I agree these things ARE needed to help the running of the business on a time-management scale, but they most certainly ARE NOT needed to help keep an affiliate program profitable for a newbie until they have grown to such a level where it is required.

You?re missing the point. The question wasn?t about a top producer sitting on stock piles of exclusive content. We?re talking about someone that has to go in from scratch. So they have to pay all the production costs. No way you can do that with 10K.

As already mentioned we can't really classify you as new to the game. But still very well done. I'd also be interested to know your initial startup cost range. I'm betting it was more than 50-100K. :thumbsup

oops :anon :party-smi

very interesting thread!

And yes JT, you were not a newbie, so Pseudonymous is right :p

would be good someone to post what are considered the normal start up costs, content/cms/design/dev.servers/aff.script etc

Overall i personally agree that is very hard, close to impossible for a total newbie as things are right now.

Its all relative though. What a total newbie in the end is? Someone that has no idea of the industry nor of the web nor of shooting nor of marketing and wants to start making money right away with zero investment without teaming up with anyone?

I think this hardly can happen in any industry anyhow... Can someone make a successful design agency without knowing photoshop nor hiring designers?

Its always product+marketing+sales...

When you can do only 1 of these and dont have the means to hire people to do the other 2, then you sell your product/service to others that need it, as much as you need them or you team up.

Adult was a goldmine but this was meant to stop at some point as in any other industry, goldmines dont last forever.

100 successful newbies!

Interesting thread.... Some bad info though.

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There is no doubt that it is tougher to launch a new paysite than it has been in the past.

true, i think Porno Dan makes great $ from the shows in streamate also, hbo and other revenue streams etc

gotta keep gfy biz thread of year 2013 & 2014 alive

I don't make great money, but I do have a profitable company that grows every year.

I have been able to grow my company is because I don't rely on one or two revenue streams.

All of my production is shoot live and shoot on Streamate and broadcast on http://immorallive.com/

I take that same content and when edited it and it goes up on my subscription site in the http://howigotrich.com/ program.

I also release that same content on DVDs through Pure Play Media and video on demand via AEBN

As Panos mentioned I have had two seasons of a HBO reality TV show about me, which has increased the exposure of my company

Hustler TV picks up the best of my movies and broadcasts them too.

It is the combination of all of these revenue streams that has allowed me to grow my company.

That and you are not new, if what dirty d said is true and those are infact your sites. They are not new and would be FAR from classified as a new company. You would be an old company that is expanding and adapting, outside of paysites.

Completely different. You have to remember that what you are seeing in growth is within the industry and thats what we are trying to prove to put things into perspective. This thread was created to see if its possible to create a new business without a long history of adult experience or a massive budget. People tend to not think much about it because you see new programs and sites popping up all the time, so you just assume the odd one is a new person, well they are not. That is something im trying to shine some light on because it better helps answer the original question

Either way, keep up the good work Porno Dan :) I dug a little and noticed your other revenue streams were your new avenues and your old ventures were traditional paysites, thats why i didn't think your money was in traditional paysites given you have moved away from it, or so it would seem

There are too many variables.

How long is it going to take that person from scratch to get to the point of launch, thats one of the biggest things because you have to pay yourself somehow in that time. If you factor in that as a cost, the overall cost goes up alot. Unless you are collecting EI or disability or some other avenue that requires no time/effort to accumulate that money. You are most likely burning through your own money. And people always underestimate how long it takes from first step.

Hardcore or softcore, amateur or professional style content. Exclusive/semi exclusive/non exclusive. Purchasing or producing yourself. How much content do you launch with. The amount somebody launches with varies so much. Ive seen anywhere from 5 sets to 50-100 sets. Solo, you can get away with less. Partnership with the model (solo) or paying models out right. How long you shoot at a time. When you shoot day by day, location costs go up more than if you were to rent a place for a month and shoot everyday.

What you already have, do you have your own equipment or do you need to purchase that, you supply wardrobe or models do? Are you a producer or do you have to hire one everytime you shoot?

The less you know about affiliates and who to goto, the more money you spend on a marketing budget for bringing in organic traffic/sales

I could go on and on but you get the point.

Though im sure if you gave a specific plan, it'd be easy to give a good accurate estimation.

No offense, but considering he gives the information away for free to anyone that wants to learn how to do it themselves, you cannot make the case that a newbie couldn't take advantage of that information, and on a small budget, make a successful site that is profitable in a few months.

The info is out there for everyone to know how to create a success and I was going to post that I believe anyone could become profitable on far less than what cost of entry would have been 5, 10, even 15 years ago. However, I am humbled with respect for Ruseful's input, because I can't imagine anyone with a better perspective that is more willing to help.

Have you checked it out for yourself? This is like saying there are guides on how to be a millionaire so theres no excuse as to why you aren't one. While there may be something you can take from that but if you think i could pass that onto a newbie and they'd all of a sudden be successful, then thats absurd. What he is explaining is only going to sink into one who already knows what they are doing to some extent and only beneficial to somebody who has a product that can be marketed on tubes and convert. Somebody new to the industry isn't going to even pass the billion steps in order to get to the level of profiting from tubes.

I can go on and on about why his guide isn't exactly going to carry anyone into success. While it may be helpful, its far from giving anybody the same experience he had.

Does his guide take into account a unique expensive product. You do realize his budget and how good his product is correct?

His method worked because he had an outstanding product which isn't cheap to do. Tubes have always been known for that, if there is one thing you can make money on when it comes to tubes, is having a unique product or of very high quality. You can try over and over to to market a mediocre product on there in the EXACT same way and not see any success.

I could give a guide to exactly how i marketed my business too but if you don't have the exact product i have, it's hardly going to be a guide to success.

If his guide was some all his experience in adult packed into some exploding box of knowledge, then we need to make a sticky thread on gfy about this and get it out there!

I do not want to take away from what he may have put into a guide which it may appear what im doing but a guide is meant to take pieces of information from it and come out making more money than you would before, you can never just simply reduplicate somebodys success from a how to guide. hah

Unless his guide said, be in adult for many years and work for the one of the biggest tubes in the world where one manages the content program, learn exactly what kind of content would do well on there, make an expensive product, be driven and skilled enough to put all the pieces together and follow these marketing techniques he did, its hardly a road to success.

Ruseful, i went to the link you posted, i dont see a guide. Just a content publishing program. Can you point me in the right direction.

How do you figure that? From what I see the costs of entry has only risen. Not only does your product have to be better now, but so does your expertise in all the other areas.

So far, for everyone that has said yes it is possible, you seem to have a flip side of the coin as to why it isn't.

Ultimately, many of us know what the costs of starting paysites are in both reality and 'webmasterland' it just depends on which version of reality you want to go with...

Like I mentioned yesterday, the 50-100k price point for starting a new website today, with nothing else on hand is ridiculous, I know many paysite owners who have started on a shoestring budget that do well enough to survive off their paysites, meaning no second job, have a roof over the heads, clothes on their backs and food in their stomachs.

Define successful, for me any business venture that consistently turns a profit is successful, whether its online or a bricks and mortar offline business.

I'll agree with that. However, no one thus far that I can see has named a single program in the last 2-3 years that has successfully done what you claim. This is my only reason for doubting. Show me the evidence of people starting on a shoestring today (with nothing else on hand) and making it and I'll be the first to admit I was wrong.

Webmaster Advertising, what is your paysite network, have you produced content, have you created one that has got off the ground, have you launched anything in the past 5 years, what is your experience and if you do not have a paysite network, why not? Given the quoted costs you've given and the 3 months it takes to make your money back, why wouldn't you launch this, since a site only takes months to throw up if you know what youre doing and been in adult for a while, which you have been no?

For somebody trying to make it sound extremely cheap and easy and could potentially be leading newbies into an expensive path, i figure people should know these things. I have my experience (well enough of it) in my sig. All launched post 2011

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Actually, I don't need to check it out, nor does anyone else, for the information is still readily available in other places.

As for your assessment of his product, you agree that the product is good, but don't realize the cost to produce that content was minuscule? I do. Not only that, I also am aware of how many others have produced similar content in the same niche and totally banked as well or conversely tragically failed to achieve similar success.

To me, a lot of this comes off like "the world is flat" rhetoric from people that are only seeing this from the perspective of what did or did not make sense to them based on the degree of success they had trying to make sense of the path to success.

As I have seen for years, the ones that actually had a business plan, based on study and research, analytic, factual, and data driven, not molded by so called "consensus", were far more successful than those paying the wages of trial and error.

:2 cents:

Miniscule? Who said this? You think the investment JT put into his business before it made money was miniscule? The owner came in here and didn't mention price, he came in here and said it was well below 1,000,000, i wouldn't even call a hundred thousand miniscule. If you think the cost to produce high quality content and hire 4 people is miniscule, well thats simply not true. And the only reason he even did it at the cost he did was because he was experienced in the industry. But i guess anybody can be experienced, because the information is "readily available" lol

Information is readily available to learn anything, that has absolutely no relation to how likely it is they can become a professional.

So what are you trying to debate here anyway? That it can easily be done as a newbie? Because thats simply not true. There is a reason that new people used to come into this industry quite often and it suddenly stopped. It became gradually harder to the point where it didn't make sense for a newcomer to invest alot of money in a far fetched attempt to learn a new industry.

I figure it based on first hand knowledge and years of experience.

I started out as "talent" in this biz. I have done everything from picking up the condoms after the shoot... which is a serious lesson in humility... to owning a company that has a brand that is established worldwide with a name that means the same thing in any language.

I think someone can become reasonably successful with almost zero start up costs if they are also willing to perform on camera. Now you might not be including that arrangement in your foregone conclusions, but I have the benefit of intimate knowledge of that potential scenario for success and feel it should be included in the discussion.

I am not saying that is prerequisite, but it would be the way to reduce start up costs to almost zero. However, even a tiny production budget could yield enough success to grow into what Ruseful has achieved. He can say how cheaply he created those scenes, but I know how they could probably be done for even less.

On a side note,I don't understand what people are bemoaning here... I personally am glad that there are many that try but few that succeed and will not apologize for it or wish it were any other way; things are tough enough with the amount of smart successful people in the biz already... :winkwink:

I have heard this for years and yet every year someone comes along that surpasses my expectations and proves you wrong.

Would you call a start up cost of $1000 minuscule? I would. I also believe someone could easily make five times that or more in a month if they executed wisely. I am not saying it would be easy. I am saying it would not be hard for someone that actually thinks of it as a business and treats it as such.

Huh? How does being talent yourself reduce the costs to nearly nothing?? You still have to pay the female talent, no? I know very few models who will perform for free!