I think youre misundersanding people in this thread if you think theres a bemoaning attitude.

I am quite happy about the state of the industry, i think it takes a real damn smart business minded person to start a business now, it also takes money. Theres no more cutting corners and cheaping out and still succeeding. You have to do things properly.

I succeeded post 2010 in a business model that is far from its peak.

The point wasn't 'the industry is dead and good luck.'

This thread is for tempering expectations, giving insight into budgets needed, and letting people know you need alot of experience and knowledge of marketing and running an adult business before investing into an area that is far from its peak.

Nobody is complaining or bitching in here.

Nor has anybody said you can't.

The likeliness somebody new to the industry with no prior experience can break in with a modest investment (into paysites) is extremely slim and denying that is just silly.

Coming from somebody who started AGES ago and gained experience doing just about everything, i find it interesting you think you could start scratch with no knowledge and invest a bunch of money and succeed. Maybe its because you soaked up knowledge over a long time from now , you dont know how much information you actually retained

Maybe you need to re read the thread, ive already mentioned many times you can make it into this business. You can make money. Theres no denying theres many avenues to make money

The original poster said, can you make it into the paysite business and still make good money as a newbie. Im sure youre even talking about paysites because hell, even getting approved by mastercard costs 750, so theres 750 of your 1000 budget ;)

I talked to him in private and mentioned in this thread, 5,000/month is something he considered GOOD money which is similar to what i had in mind when he made the thread. So all my posts are with that in mind.

And if you think it is likely a newcomer can make good money in paysites these days, starting from scratch. I welcome giving one single website that got in in the past few years and made decent money with a modest startup cost. Big industry. Should be pretty easy if its so simple. You seem to laugh at the idea so you must know a bunch ;)

Yes.

You are confined to the narrow idea that talent only comes from agencies and agencies charge a fee and models get paid xyz to perform for a day, an hour, a scene, whatever.

We work with people all the time that don't hire models and get people to work on spec. One of our most popular series was shot by a guy that would sometimes literally pay his models with a pair of new shoes worth less than $100 bucks.

This conversation is getting a bit ridiculous, you have people like Far-L and Webmaster Advertising talking about how you can go in without content management systems , without affiliate software, without paying models more than a pair of shoes. And still succeed to where your paying your bills and profiting and banking money.

People are coming in here to try to debate in order to be correct about something. Despite if theyre reaching.

Coming up with ideas of how its POSSIBLE to launch a profitable paysite does not prove that its not hard and unlikely for a newcomer to start a business post 2010 without experience.

The fact remains its extremely hard and we as an entire forum here, have yet to come up with one single website that has made it successful with a modest investment since 2010.

I truly think Far-L underestimates how much knowledge hes picked up in the many years of running paysites, he launched his network what, a decade ago? and now the idea of launching a paysite network seems easy to him, wonder why ;)

Wow, you guys are so generous!

Why does someone starting out have to have a ton of content? One can start with a single scene, shoot it live to a cam audience, then sell it on every clips4sale type site, license it to a few companies, sell to a dvd distributor, etc.

That one 1k investment in a half decent scene has the potential to raise the capital necessary to pay the next step off without further investment. Lather. Rinse. Repeat.

With enough scenes accumulated then you move into pay sites which is essentially a macro version of what you did to get there in the first place. Create site. Exploit it in all ways. Work a niche until you have earned enough to launch another. Lather rinse repeat.

Did you read the original post and what this discussion is about, this isn't a "this industry sucks" thread.

This thread is regarding the state of paysite networks and investments needed and is it possible to launch one today and made GOOD money.

Selling on clips on clips4sale isn't a paysite/membership business model

If youre telling me that somebody can come in, sell one clip, make money on that, get two clips, make money on that, eventually save up for a paysite, make money on that, rinse and repeat all that until theyre successful.

Oh jesus. Lol you really are reaching, at no point would they find themselves failing or i dont know, not making profit?

Doesn't that go back to me telling them you should be experienced before attempting to launch a paysite business?

If they did that, then theyre experienced and have proven successful in adult. So they would no longer be a newcomer.

We work with independent producers that pay the models. We do not hire models or negotiate their rates for productions. We have made some of our producers well over 6 figures. Do you think they are mad about how stingy we are?

But yes, I guess for the record we are cheap bastards. You have a problem with that? Because last time I looked, the way things work in business is you keep cost down to maximize profits.

Did something change and I didn't get the memo?

Just thought it was amusing the models getting paid with shoes

Yes, I read the entire thread actually. I even saw a lot of sense in your original post; although I disagreed with it upon reflection. My points are outside the box of what you are assuming to be true, but they are not less valid. Ruseful saw what reviewed and viewed well on YP. He created content, cheap to produce, to appeal to that niche, then he built upon that. Anyone can look at the same information on any tube site and see what is doing well and try to mimic it. Many will try. Few will succeed but that has more to do with a lack of professionalism than a degree of difficulty imo.

You know, it is easy to present something like this and think it is left wide open for discussion but the more the discussion goes on the more it becomes about limiting the variables so that only one argument/theory/postulate is seemingly fact, which usually it is not.

lol

It has been over a decade and I still laugh about it!

Then I cry... realizing I can't get a women to have sex with me for any less than 1 million and a pair of Louboutins...

I dont think ill get anywhere with people who see things like you and Webmaster Advertising do.

I simply dont believe a newcomer to the industry can simply look at what these people are doing and duplicate it. I dont believe thats possible in most scenarios, not just for newcomers

I also dont see eye to eye with you when it comes to what is 'cheap' - i do not believe what he spent on those .xxx sites from the ground up was 'cheap'

I think you guys underestimate experience and what you have picked up over a great deal of time

So I will again back out of this conversation for now.

No worries, I should back out first. You were in the thread from the start and seemed to enjoy being right until people came in and said it could be done for a reasonable investment ( still undefined in any real detail other than a bunch of disagreed upon opinions).

I still agree that it can be done with a very modest budget and a good amount of due diligence and I still think you are unfairly narrowing the scope of what is relevant. For example, any pay site operating today makes money not just on memberships but also typically on a diversified strategy of traffic trades/sales, complimentary upsells like cams/products, etc. so why is the concept of what it takes to make money on a paysite only limited to the actual paysite and not the apples on the same money tree that could also make it feasibly possible to pay for the creation of that same pay site?

You are hypothesizing that it would be difficult based on a criteria that only exists in a non-existent universe where only paysite money would be tallied at the end of the day when counting the receipts received in the course of business.

no disrespect, but from my past conversation with your partner i know that you guys have a very different understanding when it comes to paying people who shoot for you. it seems to work for you, so more power to you. but at least for professionals it's a little embarrassing what you offer.

Agreed.

1. You can hire a model for $100-250.00 and get 5-10 scenes out of them. I did not say HQ porn. I said original content.
2. You do not need a fancy CMS to start. You can do PornCMS or MechBunny or even WP.
3. You do not need an affiliate program, or the hassles, if you can drive your own traffic.

That said, I am not saying you are going to have an easy go doing it all on the cheap. I am not saying I recommend trying to do everything on the pennies plan as there is endless frustrations doing it this way. I am simply saying that it can be done. It will take you a lot longer to scale up doing this method, but you can easily shoot your own content and start a clip store with $1000-3000.00 between models and used equipment. Once you start making some money over a period of time, you launch a pay site, and then scale up from there. Add in more pay sites, shoot or purchase semi exclusive content, make a network pass, and so on and so forth.

I did not say it would be easy, nor that you will be a millionaire doing it this way. But you can make a decent living if you treat it like a job, and with minimal investment at the start. It will take a lot of hard work, and you will have to put in the hours to learn, tweak, trial and error. But you can be working full time in this industry as a start up.

All of this considered, I feel few have what it takes to make it in this business from a work ethic point of view. For every 100 who try, maybe a handful will make it. Not because of the business climate so much as the fact they just do not have the drive and work ethic to make it work.

:2 cents:

Not to hijack, but

MaDalton! Why have you not gotten involved in my Paul Markham thread?

https://gfy.com/showthread.php?t=1092778

https://gfy.com/showpost.php?p=19411968&postcount=52

Free Paul!

What Universe are you and Far-L living in that you can shoot a model for $100 - $250 and get FIVE to TEN scenes out of them? WTF? Seriously what country is that in?

Who are these models??? Can you post an example that has done 5 - 10 scenes for $100 - $250?

I'm not trying to come off like a dick, I'm just astonished (and jealous!) if that's true. Certainly very difficult to do that here in Los Angeles.

You live in Los Angeles. I live in a midwest college town. That is the difference. Supply and demand.

:2 cents:

Ok, so can you post pics of a model or two that has done these shoots?

I see. Any pics with dicks in their mouths, rather than feet? Perhaps that's where you saved the $?
I could be wrong, but I'm guessing you're not talking about 5 - 10 hardcore bg scenes?

We own over 200 paysites has it happens, all processing through CCBill.

No affiliate program, as we simply don't need one, nor the added hassles that come with an affiliate program, we do however have a client that is looking to launch several tube style sites in the next few months with a program attached.

I have no need to validate myself on a message board, I'm simply posting advice, for free, put as much or as little weight on that advice as you wish.

I can tell you though, having been in the industry for many years, I can currently design a simple paysite within 30 minutes, get it ready to process within a few days and have it making sales and have broken even within 2 days of Visa approval at CCBill, I have the backend software in place to assist me with that process though.

Like I said, not looking for validation, just saying, it is possible to do, you just have to be smart about it and launching multiple paysites and an affiliate program for less than $5k and being able to survive off the earnings is very possible, even today.

At no point did I say I shot B/G and hardcore scenes. I said I shot models who shoot porn scenes I make money on.

Nor do you only need to shoot hardcore B/G scenes to make money in the adult online industry.

As was previously stated. There is a lot of preconceptions and misinformation in this thread.

:2 cents:

So as to reduce misinformation and be clear rather than evasive, what type of porn scenes DO you shoot, that you get 5-10 of them for $100 - $250?

Sorry toots. I am not here to educate you on your business model preconceptions. Nor am I being evasive.

Most people on this forum know what I do and do not shoot, and have done for over a decade now. This is not top secret. Just because you do not know this does not mean I am maliciously doing anything of the sort. There are plenty of others on this forum, besides me, who can shoot fetish content (which is also considered porn) for pennies, and get a sizable return on investment.

This is neither a new concept, nor rocket science. It ultimately comes down to a geographical advantage in labor costs.

:2 cents:

Huh? Dude, I'm just asking what type of scenes you shoot! I'm not saying it's a secret, but it's also easier to just ASK you then going search on the board for it. I don't see why you don't just say it?!?! I'm not doubting you, just don't understand why the mystery?

Did you look at Barefootsies pics?
The content is non-nude foot fetish stuff.
So his numbers are correct for his content.

You can have a budget of $500 per hardcore b/g scene and be very successful.

I PRODUCE fetish content and have done so for over a decade shooting for price I told you. Getting 5-10 scenes per shoot.

I also license additional mainstream porn niches from other producers, DVD's, and so forth.

I need to move to FL and smoke some reef with you again.
$500 budget, how much of that for the girl?

:thumbsup

Although we have gotten some women down to clam diving and fully nude for $250.00 and still get 4-5 scenes.


:winkwink:

Nice!:pimp

Nice profit margin you mean fine sire. Content is the gift that keeps on giving.

:pimp

So the question is : Can a noob make it in today's market?

The answer is straight up Yes.

But to succeed, he has to be smart and understand that there is no set path to success like there was before.

If you think there are set costs to a shoot, that there is only one way to building a paysite and that there is only one way to getting your sales, then you're set to fail. Those that will succeed are those that can keep an open mind and find their own way of doing things.

Nobody will ever give you a roadmap to success.

Great Post! Very true words.

Exactly right. I have never followed the sheeple in my own path. Whether shooting content or hosting. Yet still succeed.

When I started, I licensed content and tried to make a go of it that way. However, over time I did not like the restrictions and realized there was money to be made in licensing (older content), DVD, and many ways to skin that same investment six ways from Sunday. So I decided to leave my corporate job and do this full time. I was already making money online with the sites I had, was not married, no kids... meaning minimal expense.

When I decided to go down this path, people told me I would never get anyone to shoot for the dollars I wanted to pay based on budget available at the time. They told me girls were paid $150-500.00 a scene, even for fetish content, and so forth and so on. A lot of discouraging remarks and feedback.

Needless to say, they were wrong. We COULD find people willing to work for what we paid. We COULD find ways to get 5-10 scenes out of girls in a single photo shoot. We COULD make money and return on our $3000.00 initial investment easily. We COULD make pay sites without all of the best and fanciest CMS, content, designs and so forth.

1. Keep your overhead costs low to maximize profits.
2. Live in a place where you geographically have a labor advantage.
3. Make your own rules for how your business will run. What you pay. What is involved.

There is still money to be made. But there are many many different factors involved on what can, and will, determine your profitability and success. That is, if you really want it, and have the work ethic and drive to make it happen. As I said before, few actually do.

:2 cents:

I think part of the problem, specifically with those wanting to launch their own sites are blinded by many of the larger programs operations and successes.

Yes, these large programs have budgets that newer site owners may not be able to match, but many of their budgets are spent on attracting affiliates and in-house sales, not on development costs.

I worked with a very large program (at the time) a few years back on some development stuff and the costs that were being thrown around the boards at the time were nowhere near what they spent on a site design, content shoots, hosting, etc...

For anyone to say that you have to spend $X to launch a site is laughable, because it can, has and will be done for costs ranging from a few hundred dollars to a few thousand dollars and everywhere in between and above, just because Joe Schmo Webmaster spent $10k getting their paysite up and running, does not mean everyone else needs to spend the same amount.

Costs vary greatly from locale to locale, what someone in NY can pay for a custom shoot, someone in BumFuck Alabama is going to pay a lot less for, because they get to dictate the market pricing, not the abundance of producers and talent.

As mentioned above, running a successful business, online or no, is dependent on overheads, if you go into it spending thousands of dollars with no real game-plan, you're setting yourself up to fail, whether you are a newbie or a seasoned pro.

A better question to answer in this thread might be:

How many established webmasters have launched affiliate programs in the last 5 years that have gone tits up?

I can think of a lot right off the top of my head.

Is that because they didn't spend the money? Because they weren't known in the industry? Because they didn't have the contacts? Or; was it because they had no clue about the basic principles of business and just went with perception of what is needed on the message boards?

I am never embarrassed by our being frugal, nor do I apologize for our focus on true amateur and not professionally shot "amateur", so why would you or anyone else be?

What you are really saying is our cheap rates don't work for your business model and I don't have an issue with that; so, being "embarrassed" about it comes off a little bit condescending just because you don't want to shoot for the price we are offering and which many of the amateurs we work with are happy to get. No problem. Each of us does what works for us and obviously both of us have been in biz long enough to be "right" about our opinions.

I am constructing a small temple in which I will burn incense made from white roses, symbolizing truth, in dedication to the great wisdom of this post.

Its been mentioned multiple times in this thread, the cost to launch a business where you make a bit of money is infact minimal. This thread didn't have making it in the business in mind, nor making minimum wage, he asked can you make a business based on paysites and make GOOD money on a modest budget. Good money isn't making 1500-2000 a month, or atleast not in the original posters view. Sometimes i wonder why people keep steering away from the actual question and turn it into a thread regarding 'can newcomers make it'

No need for an affiliate program? Drive your own traffic?

Again you steer away from the initial question, the original poster said newcomer, a newcomer doesn't come into this industry and have the abilities to market their own program. Hell most experienced programs dont even have the ability to send themselves all that much for sales.

And drive your own traffic only works if you want to be a few sales a day max. What newcomer would have enough traffic to send themselves more than a sale or two a day?

No newcomer is going to come into this industry, send themselves 5-10 sales a day.

To make enough money to grow (make more than your bills), you need to pay your bills and make enough to save for a new project before you run out of content/updates for your current website.

30 staff.. What do you do?