Not heading to them this year, will you attend the phoenix forum at the end of march/beg of april do you think?

Yep, i'll be there for sure!!!

Would be great to meet with you in Vegas.
I have received your email too btw, will respond as soon as i can :)

I haven't actually sent you an email yet, but will do so right now. :thumbsup

Wow that thread start to scare me a lot! I'm a newbie in the business and I'm about to launch my own paysite with exclusive content. Did it with 20k of my own money so you are making me a little bit nervous :) Should be ready for CCbill check up next monday.

Dont be, the only opinion that would have been somewhat daunting is mine and all i claimed was that with a small investment, its extremely hard to make the jump into a medium sized business. Given youre using the income to pay your bills too.

Its still relatively easy for any driven/motivated individual to succeed in making money in adult.

If you are comfortable with posting your site, you could ask for critiques or message some people in private and ask for their opinions.

When I got into paysites, if i didn't ask for help from people who had already been involved, i dont think i'd be doing nearly as well. No thats wrong, im 100% sure.

Are you saying that because you think the affiliate model isn't thriving or because it's a tough path for somebody without too much knowledge to goto first?

adapt or die...so to speak

Incorrect, i know plenty of people who launch paysites that take off just based on affiliates carrying it. Talking about paysites this year and last. Though i believe this depends on the niche. Because some niches are more active than others. Some niches have a dedicated amount of affiliates who are still going strong. Also depends on if you know where to go to find those affiliates of if you are confident you have a product theyll want to promote. But if youre saying there isnt' enough affiliates out there to take ahold of a product and make it a success , youre wrong.

Theres a ton of affiliates out there that still make very good money and just salivating for new products

Though i agree with saying its not what somebody should go in and depend on as a newbie because they simply wont know where to goto find these people, probably not create the stir/buzz in order to get your sites on them all, know how to create good tools or have the money/time, some people are lazy and dont end up releasing the tools consistently (or underesimate how important it is to release them consistently), etc

I cant post it for review now since the html 5 just have been done and I have to wait for the cms to upload my content. All you would see is the page without the pictures and the videos on. I will post it when ready since I gonna need affiliate expertise to get traffic and I want their opinion to improve the produce.

Yea at first I was trying without any help and I did try to hire cheap labor that result in waste of money. So it was a great help to found that board, did ask a lot of question over the time and menage to found amazing expert to build the website and the cms :)

250 Misunderstandings!!!

Huh? Man... WHAT? How in the world is this your response to what I wrote???:
"Mister Peabody, would you care to take the honors of being the thread's coveted success case?

I hope he says, "FUCK YEAH!""

Dude, my father always said All Problems Are Problems Of Communication, so that's probably the case here, but I still would love to somehow follow your thought process going from what I wrote, to what you wrote.
Don't be so defensive! I guess I understand your defensiveness here, though, since there are so many people constantly on "offense". But in this case I wasn't trying to doubt you or mentor you or disprove the base of the thread.
In fact, I was trying to ANSWER your original question of the thread:
"I’m curious to know how many newbie producers have created member’s site startups that have actually made any money in todays market? And I'm not talking rent money... I mean serious money. I’m talking people who got in the game within like the last couple years."

This entire thread we've been trying to come up with a specific answer to your question.
I first suggested JT and Ruseful, then suggested perhaps BrokeAmateurs.com, then I guessed Porno Dan. None of those three ended up being a "perfect" answer to your question.
So, my next guess was/is Mister Peabody - perhaps he is a good example of a newbie-ish producer who has created members' site startups that have actually made any money in today's market.
And I said that I hope he says "FUCK YEAH" because that seems to be his catchphrase as of late. He had a thread today called FUCK YEAH and he even wrote FUCK YEAH repeatedly in this very thread that we're writing in. So when I said that I hope he says FUCK YEAH, it was a joke referring to this catchphrase of his. Gosh golly gee.
Clear?

OK, So all, is Mister Peabody an example of someone who fits as a yes in OP's original question?

themisterpeabody.com was launched in 2006-2007, he didn't launched peabodycash until late 2009. where he then saw some success with one site having a somewhat significant memberbase in 2010 (erosexotica). since then, nothing too much in the way of a good memberbase but it appears he's maintaining his business with new small sites.. nothing that has yet to reach the level of erosexotica

there may be sites im missing that are not listed on his program

with all that said, he had years of being involved in adult and poking away from what it appears. earned his stripes and gained experience and learned alot beforehand. unlike a newcomer.

it appears hes maining his business better than most. but i think it shows that you still have to spend a while in adult until you REALLY get the hang of things

Too late to edit my post. Looks like there are tons of sites that aren't listed in his program. He has infact been steadily running paysites since 2005-2006. Hes got 30 (atleast) to his name dating back to then

http://www.erosexotica.com/join.html (scroll down)

i wouldn't say he had a full understanding until late 09,early 2010 when he finally launched erosexotica. given his posts regarding his budget and asking for tips in 2009.

*my posts are not taking anything away from his business, it appears to be doing well and i respect the route he took, trying to show that time and experience is very important/needed on a modest budget, which he did infact have*

Lol, relax bro. Obviously I missed the "Mister Peabody" reference. I had no clue who he even was until now. So sadly no, you still have not managed to come up with a single person qualified to fit the profile of new, inexperienced, and successful in this realm of the biz.

And I'm not trying to be defensive. I really hope you guys do find people that fit the profile, and lots of them. You would think they wouldn't be that hard to find if noobs were actually coming in the industry and making it happen.

You'll want a high speed stills cam with a flash. You can get them nowadays probably for about the same it would cost you to shoot one of your scenes (or less), especially if you buy used.

Cool site BTW. Thanks for sharing your story. I wish you all the best of luck with everything! :thumbsup

I may just be dropping you a line too.

EDIT: Looking back now I actually do remember him. The name just didn't register with me. But the answer is still no, he doesn't fit the profile.

Thanks for asking. There a few reasons.

I say that because at least initially, in start up, the cost of acquiring enough affiliates and maintaining them properly with fresh tools doesn't return enough profit to make it worthwhile. It is better to create an internal marketing plan along with a good seo foundation first and when the business is stable and profitable then adding affiliates to the mix.

The problem is newbs look at all these programs that appear to be selling like mad, but really are not. In fact, they are probably doing more like what Josh is doing but are not as honest as he is about it. However, the newbs still assume that launching a new program will bring in a rush of affiliates and those people will do the work of marketing to make the program a success.

It doesn't work that way.

The newb needs to focus on marketing. Since many content producers that are newbs only focused on content first, the fun part, the part where they get to bang chicks end to end until they need to make money to pay for more, they don't consider the marketing part. They tend to assume "build it and they will come", no pun intended.

It doesn't work that way.

But please, I still want to know what you think is the first measure of success for a start up newb that starts with - 1k, $2500, 5k, 10k, or whatever number you say, because otherwise we are just looking at ethereal hypothetical scenarios. Let's get concrete.

You need to be more specific because otherwise this is just a big guessing game that is a waste of time that only can provide a foregone conclusion.

How recent is "recent"?

How much cash to start?

What level of monthly income qualifies as "success" in your mind?

How much prior experience is too much?

I thought we pretty much cleared that up by now. It would be anyone who launched in 2010 or later, with no prior adult experience. They would need to produce their own exclusive content. Starting budget could be no more than 50-100k, as anything over that and you're no longer a small time guy. And they should be making 3-5k per month (minimum).

A flawed business model coming out of the gate.

:2 cents:

Why are you guys even trying to argue such specific points anymore? It's pretty clear that someone with absolutely no industry experience, no technical skills and little money is going to have a very tough going even if they are smart and hard-working. There probably isn't anyone that qualifies as successful under those strict conditions. But who cares?

Like I mentioned above, I think it's a lot more interesting to discuss what someone with some years of industry experience, some small to medium amount of money and at least some degree of technical skills in one area or another could achieve in 2013. Not debating whether you can find someone who just dropped into the business yesterday after having never given it any thought in his life before and $500 bucks in his pocket could do.

It's a shame markham is still banned. I bet his insights into this topic would be awesome.

First measure of success? Thats solely up to whoever is investing, some people just look to come out on top, some people seek a certain return, some people are looking to be in this business full time, some people consider their time worth 5k a month, some 10k

Did you think i thought otherwise? Because i was answering a question that asked what i thought most newcomers likeliness was to make 5k a month and how much that would take? Some people dont find things worth it for them unless they can invest all their time into something unless they make that amount of money. I wasn't here to argue what he was happy with.

So i answered that question, saying it was possible before (as evident by the amount of people who did it). But its not as likely today (evident by the lack of people who have done it in the past few years)

Why? Because thats what he feels his time is worth and could probably make that elsewhere, it was possible to do at one time, so he was asking if it is now. I think its a fair question considering it wasn't all that long ago that it was possible to come in with no experience and make alot of money

I know alot of lazy people who didn't know this industry very well when they made their money (years ago). He was trying to get an understanding of how much tougher its gotten.

Also he didn't say no experience and only 500 bucks, he actually said 50k (upwards of 100) as a rough number.

And yes theres other interesting things to discuss and maybe those things will be touched on, as for the previous 6 pages, people have been touching on that because its what was asked. because thats the position hes in.

Far-L asked the question so I simply responded to him. I think it's pretty safe to say we've moved past the initial question that this thread was based on. It's clearly evident that there's no one out there with that profile that has a fair chance of succeeding today. Not to say it would be impossible, people get struck by lightning all the time. But the odds of success are next to zero.

Taking what you just said though. It would be interesting to see what people think about the chances and challenges of those who come in with a lot of production experience but not so much sales/marketing/traffic experience vs. someone with a lot of sales/marketing experience.

I told you on ICQ what i believed your best bet was, and i think its the best bet for any new producer post 2010. I think you should make a website, get a cms, put it all together, shoot the content and then find a program that is successful and team up with them and try to work out a fair percent for them but never take less than 50 percent, try to get more than that if you can.

The $ return will be very quick as they already have an established affiliate database and all it takes is a simple mail out to get you out there and making lots of sales.

If you have a product good enough, they may take even a lower percent if they think its capable of making alot of money.

So I think being a producer gives you many more options

I know. I was paying attention :thumbsup

I was posing the question to help other readers who may find themselves in a similar situation.

And I respectfully disagree with what he is saying.

One, on the budget you are describing you don't have to take on a partner like that. Next, what are affiliates going to get? Probably 50%, maybe more depending on the partner, now you will split that with the partner so really you only are getting 25% but add to that the potential costs the partner is taking out first, most likely hosting, processing, and maybe hard marketing costs like ad buys, and the producer is going to want production costs out by the same token.

The percentage left is pretty small.

Then why would a good solid marketing partner need that producer since it would generally be cheaper to just shop for exclusive content that has a one time cost and they would own it. This is exactly why you see so many failed relationships that are done like this. Hell, I have it on very reasonable and trusted authority that not all the Manwin content partners are very happy. What does that tell you if the ones with more traffic than God can't make partners happy?

The path to success is literally strewn with the dead and mangled bodies of companies that took that approach.

Now, 100k is half the investment nut of 200k for what Ruseful spent - would you be happy with half his success? I would in that amount of time especially but I wouldn't be unhappy if it took twice as long to get half that successful either because by any biz standard that would still be measured as hugely successful.

Now factor in that he is willing to tell you exactly what he did to get there and pretty much has spelled it out here and in other threads too. So why couldn't someone with ZERO prior knowledge of the industry but $50 to $100k to invest not learn from that and create similar success? I will tell you why. Most people don't really think these things through and do the due diligence homework that is necessary first. They want someone to do it for them. They listen to bad advice. A few months later they are out of the biz.

Anyone remember Hanco? That is why I call it "Hanco Syndrome".

I'm reading a bit of a sense of entitlement in this thread... Why should a newbie with a bit of capital and no other skills be able to come up with a profitable paysite? Online business rewards intelligence and innovation, it isn't supposed to be easy.

All very valid points. And I don't disagree with any of them. I would certainly never suggest that Pseudonymous' recommended path to success is the best choice for everyone to follow. He was speaking more to the condition of those with more production experience and less sales/marketing experience. Never the less, I agree, everything you said are things newcomers will have to weigh out when thinking of partnering to decide if it's really worth it to them in the end.

And you're absolutely right about Ruseful and his openess to educate others on how he was able to succeed. But you still have to remember that he had extensive prior experience in his field. And although putting that experience to words for other's to follow is great, even that may not be enough in the end. If I'm not mistaken he said he ran that tube site for 4yrs. When you know the ins and outs of how the tubes work 1st hand, that experience goes a long way towards ones ability. And thus it may not be a template that everyone can follow. We don't know how much of success in JT's model is weighted on ones experience/ability with tubes and their users, as opposed to being able to follow guide/plan correctly.

Is he the first to actually go that route from scratch, relying primarily on the tubes to generate traffic? It no doubt seems to be a great path model. Could very well be the new industry path model of the future. I would like to see if any other starters can actually use it with a fair measure of success though before we brand it as such.

Looking back I guess I should've just said there's pluses and minuses to everything.

True, it's not supposed to be easy, but it's not supposed to be impossible either. Lot's of people start mainstream businesses all the time from scratch without any prior experience and are able to become successful. A lot fail, sure. But there are also a lot of success stories out there.

I was simply asking where are all the success stories for recent newcomers doing the same in adult.

Ok, if a newb is able to come to a board like this and pay nothing for valuable firsthand knowledge from someone like Ruseful, Barefootsies, WA, or any other experienced person willing to help lend a hand, then doesn't that actually prove my point?

It is like you think there is some wall to success just because the person is a newb but that just isn't true. There is amazing access to plentiful information on how to succeed but most will choose either to ignore it or never look for it in the first place. Ruseful didn't know anything about adult when he started. He is willing to pass that on to help someone else. Doesn't that mean others could achieve similar results? Most won't, of course, but it has nothing to do with the market and more to do with their business skills and work ethic I guarantee.

For example, being successful on tubes is not rocket science and it is not some secret which only the initiated are privy to; it comes down to doing research, analyzing data, and refining the pitch while providing steady content for more exposure. Lather, rinse, repeat. It is work that many don't want to do, especially most content producers that tend to be more focused on whether or not a starlet is going to show up to suck cock in yet another POV scene.

Now that I've read this entire thread, it's been a lot of fun :thumbsup

Pseudonymous, want to get a beer sometime?

definitely :thumbsup

I'll hit you up on ICQ.

Edit----

It proves that a newb can get some guidance if he/she looks for it. But that doesn't mean the hurdles get automatically lowered.

It's not just me, but nearly half the people that posted in this thread. That's not to say the wall can't be scaled, but it's a hell of a lot higher/harder than most people perceive it to be for the beginner. It's easy for everyone here with experience to sit back and comment on how it's not that difficult if you put in the necessary effort, etc. But you think every single newb that failed to reach a fair level of success, didn't do so because they didn't work hard enough?? Or take the biz serious enough? Come on...

Really?? I'd like to have him come back on here and clear that up for the record, cause that's certainly not the impression I got from talking with him.

I'll admit that I don't know enough about the tubes yet to accurately comment on this. But this really does comes off sounding very similar to other things that people research and analyze in order to "predict" what the customer is going to do and want so that they can best reach them. And we all know that doesn't always work out as planned (or predicted).

Manwin has content partners? Everything I've read from Nathan is that Manwin owns everything outright. Right on this board I questioned him about the Playboy deal, which I thought was a type of partnership between Manwin and Playboy where Manwin licensed/operated Playboy's websites and TV channels and split profits - he corrected me saying it was not that kind of partnership.

Partnered on Wicked's site

Send me an email at [email protected] - after the Vegas events ill spend an hour with you on skype to make sure you'll be in the right direction. Joshgirls same as well.

I have a lot of comments to say, but not much free time. For the moment I'll point out one of the most common mistakes which paysite owners do: NEGLECTING THE TOUR

You cant budget $500, $800 etc for a tour. Why? Cause you need to constantly test it and optimize it and that takes 100s of hours. A very good tour is a world of its own.

I believe a noob can walk in today and be successful, but he's not going to get it right the first time. If he is driven, pays attention to stats, learns from others and really puts in effort with a niche that has potential, he can make it. Odds are not in his favor, but people beat the odds every day. People beat cancer and summit mountains all the time, so making money in porn isn't really mission impossible.

Strip away all the bullshit and your only real goal is to get a guy who probably already has his cock in his hand to pay for whatever it is your selling so that he can cum to the image or video he thinks he needs to satisfy whatever craving he has at that moment. If you have a penis you know the process. Some strokers are frugal so you need to cater to them as well, but most of them just want to get off. Help them.

And to touch one what Theo just said, you MUST get your tours optimized and try to find out what works best for them. Sometimes just changing a color or a single image makes a word of difference. I see some new guys posting their tours on here and they are awful. I'm not talking about slick graphics, I'm talking about functionality and clear vision of what the site is. Getting them from A to Z should be quick and painless. If they have to figure out how to work your site or how to get to the next page, you will lose them as fast as you got them. I don't believe slick graphics sell a site, content and ease of use does. Give them what they want in a manner that a drunk retarded German with bad eyes can figure it out with ease, and you'll do OK.

Not serious money just yet, but reasonable money with no promotion at all!