Make goals, keep testing, and keep improving. You'll get to where you want to be.

Care to elaborate on this? When did you launch? What was your starting budget? What was your prior experience? And what do you call reasonable money? Hopefully at least 2k per month.

Despite no Paul Markham, I see this content producer thread becomes book long, more than discussions about traffic.
This let me think, that there's more content producers than affiliates in GFY? Including former content producers, and wanna-be content producers, not just currently active ones.

My 2 historical cents: Before of cams, I was into prerecorded content, solo girls stuff, not photographer myself, just had partners in the east I tell who to shoot and how, and setup site and submit to tgp's and such. I remember that prior to 2005, but even better prior to 2003, whatever russian / ukrainian (or their western partner's) had took photos of naked blondes and setup a ccbill site (or ibill site lol), had easily got back the investment. There was several St.Petersburg based sites with list of 100+ models, everyone had the same local girls mostly. You would select what girls, tell what to do, then the site guy had found photographer on the fly (if he was not one), called the girls, rented a flat (or go in "free of charge nature" - or in "soviet ruins", I always liked girls in ruins), and delivered the content in ftp site.

Cost was quite affordable, was few $100's for several sets + videos per girl. I remember I dealt with Paul Markham too but never buy anything, thre was several Prague content providers but asked $400+ a set that was 3+ times the russians with no advantage (imho) except a little more "pro" looks, which not necessarily it is a selling point (see "amateur" niche). To make enough content for a site launch, with some luck, you could be within the $5k, or even $3k if you hired in Siberia or Ukraine too, where cheaper ones could be found, even backgrounds was even more a ruin or forest style. The fun fact it is, the time the guys hired the girl, they shoot more than what you asked, and re-sold those sets themselves to someone else. You would figure it when you seen same girl & makeup and nearby trees or ruins location, or changed background sheets if was a studio, or room if was a rented flat... but well, was no big deal, except you made this to met-art which was paying like 10 times anyone else for this stuff, and upset if indirectly funded the shoot of competitor's sets, but I can tell 99.9% of photographer made this to met-art too, that was funny times.

But sometime after 2005, it became no more easy to get back investment in the above way (I mean you order russian content, setup site, submit galls + wait affiliates, and make money). At that time however, the "older" and stable sites still continued to order content, the issue it was just with noobs willing to start. Of course became even more difficult after 2008 or 2010 etc., when even older sites had issues to order new photosets for updates, but I would set the timeline at 2005-2006, when the content sites started to close and those models had to find other jobs as not enough photosets per month to do this as stable job - unless in the lucky list of photographers and models working for those few big sites out there. Lots of these models moved into cams, even if, photo models and cam models are quite a different type of job and most would not adapt.

Of course the Usa/Canada content production may have followed a different path, especially consider I switched to cams in 2004 so I have no direct info since, and anyway never been in boy+girl content, only been in solo girl or g+g and eastern originated.
In full honesty I switched to cams as soon as I feared prerecorded content was saturated and pirated so not long term, I had no personal attachment to the specific activity so not persistent or motivated to produce content and sites at any cost. In fact, I would stop doing cams too, as soon as it would no more be profitable (before adult I was into video games devlopment, now it is a little harder to do $$ there too).
Eventually there's people who do content with passion and that may give the extra help to make it work, I'm sure some out there worked endless hours and been in loss at start, in order to finally reach good archievment, I am honest I do this just as a job, as soon as there no money I am gone :)

I can see an Octomom video made by wicked or else VIP tapes or current hollywood movies parodies may have a business, mine 2 cents story it is about unnamed eastern girls content. About East, going more east I seen in another thread a very nice 1:200 conversion ratio reported for filipinasexdiary.com , site is new and obvious success, so new site with "non vip's" content can do well, however the guys behind it are not new, I believe the thread was about new guys, not new sites from old guys.

I give a good luck to everyone, considering who's in adult it is not so supported by anyone really (not even by others in adult).

To me, it is just starting to sound like all you really want is for it to be "easy", you know, like it was in the good ol' days...

That "good ol days" is a myth. Those people that were successful yesterday worked hard. Some were successful but most failed even then. Even the successful ones found out things were not easy when user behaviors changed and they were not prepared for it for any number of reasons, the drug habits they took on, the arrogance of bad investments, the unwillingness to change and adapt, whatever.

I never said it was easy. I just say it is easier nowadays to figure out how to be a success because of the abundant cheap resources that make the barrier to entry very low. However, I never said it won't be about hard work.

Good luck, maybe for you the third time will be the charm.

I wish you luck but honestly, judging from this thread and your apparent willingness to buy into the easy "logic" of the sophists that are telling you what you want to hear, unfortunately I think you are more likely going to fail. Hope you prove me wrong.

Agreed. It seems anyone with actual working knowledge of what works, because it isn't what people actually want to hear are just wasting their time/effort in sharing information, which is why I stopped responding in this thread, everyone is saying we're wrong, but not backing it up with any hard evidence other than the same old 'that isn't what we're talking about' rhetoric.

I didn't read this thread, i'm sure their is plenty of great points and discussions.

I think opening up a site with the hopes that mad traffic will come because affiliates can't wait to promote and google will just love it... are over for the newbs.

I would say start up a bunch of free sites (all niche related), find a few that start to get organic traffic and turn them into a paysite. Now here is the trick, you need to turn it into a paysite *without* causing a huge drop in traffic.

True dat.

Back in the day you did not have the ease of WordPress, MechBunny, and alike. Many first generation porn sites were static pages done by hand. I think the only thing actually "easier" back then was conversions.

Now-a-days you have endless tools at your disposal.

Exactly. Plus way lower costs on things like hosting and bandwidth.

We actually still convert really well on Google/organic traffic - of course that has a lot to do with the brand name - but truthfully I think sites like "fake agent" are doing really well too because they are very well targeted, streamlined in the pitch, and easy to grasp like what DWB is saying... but let's face it... "Fake Agent" is simply a re-hash of Netvideogirls and that site has been converting well for years. Not rocket science to figure out how JT came up with the idea for the niche.

You guys are really getting ridiculous. You two have a certain mentality about just how ?easy? (or difficult) it is for a newbie to enter the industry today, whereas myself (and apparently others too) see things differently. Perception and reality are not always the same. Go back and re-read the first few pages of this thread when nearly everyone was saying if you don?t already have traffic and/or a ton of experience don?t waste your time. So we?ll just have to agree to disagree here. When you start providing evidence of the influx of newbies launching successful pay sites then I?ll believe the hype.

And for the record, I never said I was planning on investing in adult again to begin with. The question was asked to get the ?truth? about the state of the industry as far as total beginners launching pay sites.

I?m about making money first and foremost. I never expect starting any business in any field to be ?easy?. But there?s a big difference between a market having fair odds and one having extremely difficult odds. It?s "possible" for anyone to make it to the pros from a minor league team, but the reality is that the odds of someone actually getting there that way are really stacked against you. There are a lot of great players out there don?t always even get an opportunity or a break. But I suppose people like you would say the ones that didn?t make it, it?s because they didn?t train hard enough, or didn?t have enough will to make it. Sometimes it?s a little more complicated than that, regardless of what industry you?re in. That?s all I?m trying to say.

Sounds like another one against a newbies chances just starting out.

No one's disputing that. I feel like we're just going around in circles here arguing the same thing. My whole point was that sometimes you can have all the tools, do everything right, and still be unsuccessful. Perhaps there were just 1 too many pizza stands on the same block.

Ok. I never said you and the others were not entitled to your opinions, just that I disagreed on the basis of a seemingly ever changing standard that everyone that espoused that view seemed to hold.

Now I see the light. You guys are right. Traffic is really really really hard to get. Newbs should forget about even trying. Game over. Not even worth the effort.

It is a good thing too.

People that think like that just make it easier for the ones that do want to succeed. :1orglaugh

Whatever bro. Nobody altered any standards. Believe it or not, I'm actually on your side. I want to see newbs do exactly what you say they "all" can do. So instead of going back and forth beating a dead horse here. Why don't you put your money where your mouth is and try and help some of these newbs be all that they "can" and "should" be. You can start with Joshgirls. I'm sure he'd be grateful for your assistance.

The information on how to do something has been given to you. I don't think you deserve it honestly but it has.

I read this thread since my post... some people mentioned some *awesome* things (besides myself) and you choose the path of argument.

Good luck.

How many times do I have to say that this is not about me? I am not in adult biz! You obviously didn't read what you quoted... Does that look like my username at the end of the paragraph??

I swear there are some really daft people on this board. No better proof that reading is fundamental than on gfy. Else people would understand that I never argued anyone's methodologies to success, only the definition of success, and the ability for ALL (who try) to reach it. I personally know how to read quite well and have read every piece of advice that was given out on this thread. But thank you so much for pointing out the obvious.

What 'cha doing on an adult industry forum?

I "was" in the biz. Past tense :winkwink:

How about the FuckedHard18 guys?

Very far from new.

2007 and if i dug, i wouldn't be surprised to find a connection to even further back.

Edit-- builttoconvert.com is 2005

Got cha.

Good discussion going on here.

So this is a *what if* situation from a has been, or as they say, wanna be?

lol, what fun. :1orglaugh

300 horses led to water but not drinking...

Actually I was trying to help so sorry you don't see it that way. Broski-machoski.

And for the record, I have helped amateurs/newbs for years sending traffic, buying content, fighting law suits to protect everyone in the industry, and "teaching people to fish". Bromantic, I would be happy to help Josh. Hope he reads this and hits me up.

What have you done? No offense, Bromalicious, but besides failing twice and quitting and then coming and asking a question which was only really rhetorical, where have you contributed to the community?

How does a debate about the state of the industry for newbs turn into a "what if" scenario about me? Are we not allowed to have an intelligent "open" discussion on this topic without you guys trying to twist it into something else?

Now if you want to discuss me (or anyone else for that matter) in a hypothetical context that could be beneficial to the discussion in this thread, then go right ahead. But don't come on here and try and make it seem like this was titled as my personal help thread.

I'm not the one claiming to be the guru here, yet you want to question MY contributions?? Amazing...

This thread (which I started) could potentially help a lot of newbies considering entering the biz... at least until the point where a few of you didn't like the fact that you couldn't find a single success story that fit the startup profile, and thus decided to go on the offensive.

There's no shame in accepting the reality that we can't think of anyone with a total newbie profile that succeeded. Let's accept it, move forward, and work on trying to change it. Instead, (no offense to you either) all I hear from you "mr expert guru" is a lot of bitching and moaning in the absence of praise.

Let's put the bickering aside and get back to adding worthwhile/meaningful contributions to this thread.

Because it was never a debate in the first place for the reasons those on the "glass half full" side of the debate have pointed out.

Because folks on the "glass half empty" side of the discussion have assumed a presumption that it based on a pretty illogical premise, "newbs chances of becoming successful are slim to none in today's marketspace".

Because your experience is relevant obviously because that is where you formed your opinion.

Because you claimed you were out of the biz, but when offered advice on how to achieve success, "yeah I will have to take you up on that at the show" if I remember correctly so that means there is not a complete sync between your deeds and your posts - which is always going to turn the focus back on you.

I could go on but that seems to cover it, but let's get back to the intelligent discussion because at the end of the day there really isn't a "right or wrong" to this and it is good to have an open ended discussion/debate about it so I am still grateful you posed the question in the first place. :thumbsup

I don't know enough about other people's success or lack thereof so I can't comment sufficiently and I don't buy into the hype most people typically bluster here and elsewhere anyway so that is why I took the tact I took. Regardless though, I do know "newbs" that are on the right track and achieving "success" which this thread has defined in a way that is extremely relative. Also, the success they are achieving is not along the rigid lines of "affiliate paysite model" that you seem to think is the measure to judge that success by so by the ever changing limitations of that definition they wouldn't fit the mold anyway.

In any event, you need to chill. Bro-ma-lo-ma-ding-dong. :2 cents:

I tried to form my opinions as objectively as possible based on the evidence that was provided by the people in this thread.

I'm completely chill. Nothing wrong with a good discussion. And I've just extended the olive branch to you... it's up to you whether or not you choose to accept it. :drinkup

I have to step in and say here that you are talking with and being given free advice by some of the most successful, celebrated and published people in the business. Where else could you do that?

I'm nobody and you may be somebody, but these folks are SOMEBODY and are doling out real business acumen.

What benefit does it give them to lie to you, or to sugarcoat? None whatsoever. Perhaps if they were sitting on a gold mine and told you there was no gold .. but what they are telling you is that persistence, hard word, willingness to learn, and the ability to oh, say, LISTEN WHEN SMART PEOPLE GIVE YOU ADVICE will potentially bring you success.

If you had the astonishing foresight to buy DELL in 1993 you would have made "easy money". Not so in 2000. If you'd had the astonishing foresight to buy NYC real estate in late 2001 you'd have made "easy money". If you'd had the astonishing foresight and mechanism to bet against credit swaps you'd have made "easy money".

Easy money is everywhere. The common element is the astonishing foresight. The rest of us have to work, and learn, and listen.

Is this supposed to be directed at me?? I hope not because that would be yet another one who failed to READ what I've been saying all along.

Maybe I need to copy what I said in my sig...

some of this (a few pages back) is actually worth reading

Wait, wait, here he is - Shimmy you are the example, right? I can't remember, did you do any adult before your current work?

Olive branch accepted.

Just don't call me "bro" please because that just sets off an immediate defensive reaction on my part. I apologize.

It's all good. No worries. :thumbsup

Now let's get back to people throwing in more helpful strategies for those noobs who come looking for useful info in this thread.

Agreed. Catching up on it now

Shimmy has been around for a little while.

Hello,

Just to let you know my website is ready :) only a couple of text to do and then I send it to ccbill scan.

If you could take 1 min to check it up and give a little bit of feedback that would be really nice.

www.cosplay-mate.com

Thanks!

1. Your 2257 notice appears to be protected in your members area. Probably should fix that -- http://www.cosplay-mate.com/members/2257.php

2. Your landing page META description field isn't filled out. It doesn't carry much weight from an SEO perspective, but people will likely see that result if you get organic searchers locating your site.
<meta name="description" content="Add Your Description Here">

3. Why do you have a DMCA notice? Are you accepting user uploads? Not sure what use that is to you unless you're not sure about the legitimacy of your content.

4. The teaser trailer on your home page is rather large. 70.9MB, 1920x1080, ~4500bps throughput for two minutes of video. You could probably embed it on the screen and reduce the side. However, if you're selling your site based on high-resolution and high definition then this is probably not a real issue. Some of your video is a bit shakey and I recommend putting it through stabilization software (Adobe CS6 has it built in). One last thing on the topic of the video, the very last words on the video are "BECOME MEMBER" and I'm pretty sure it should say "BECOME A MEMBER."

5. The domain of your site without the hyphen -- http://cosplaymate.com/ -- is owned by a domain reseller. That's going to cost you some members who may hear about your site through some means where they couldn't write it down. Granted, it may not be a lot, but that's something to think about if someone creates a competing site using the same theme.

S

Thanks a lot for all the feedback!

nop I dont allow user content so it true that I dont need it at all. must be a reflex from my webmaster :)

Gonna have the trailer embed since some friend report to me their player have to download it all before it start to play. Yep I have 2 shakey videos from my first incompetant camera guy that didnt know how to work, didnt know cs6 have a build in stabilization, I look that right away. Gonna also correct the Become A Member spelling.

Yes the domain reseller is greedy and want 3000$ for a domain name that worth nothing except for me. There is no way I pay that much for a domain name since I'm starting alone on a low budjet

I think there is a ccbill requirement to have at least 20 vids or so. Can't see how they approve the site to bill with 5 vids. If you have more then 5 vids... the tour (errr... 1 page index site) does not elude to that.

What is the site about again?

Lorem ipsum? ok, i'm in.

I wish you the best of luck with the site. Please keep us updated on your progress!