2 things

1) msnbc has a liberal bent 24/7
As i've said a zillion times, see sig

2) in terms of your comparison w/Faux
As i've said a zillion times, see sig and then continue

As someone who believes both the Dem & Rep parties are utterly worthless and corrupt to their cores,,,,,

At this point in time, the dem talking heads etc have the luxury of being able to deal in facts far more than the reps.

That said, 98% (or more) of elected officials - regardless of party - are nothing more than whores to their big money paymasters.

Yea, he endorsed Romney and has already been to Israel to kiss their wall and all that shit...

They also have been covering up Fast and Furious this whole time, a blatant false flag operation...

Hilary has four years to prepare for her presidency. And you can believe she plans on doing even less to protect Americans when she "wins" that election....

1. There was no consulate in Benghazi, it was a CIA base.

2. DTK is 100% right, there were 11 attacks under Bush and nobody cared that much.

3. Robbie is right about the cover up but this isn't even that bad compared to the attack in Jeddah that is still blamed on Al Queda when there are numerous reports it was done by groups linked to an influential Saudi Prince.

4. Rand Paul has no credibility at all, he claims to be a libertarian but sold out his dad, his "beliefs", and most of his supporters by backing Romney. He has no shot at being president because his "personal freedoms" message is in direct conflict with the Christian base of the republican party

Imagine if the US government had spent as much time on investigating the 9/11 attacks, but there were no political points to score off doing that.

They should be grilling Clinton about covering up the drone network and the civillian casulties caused from "targeted" bombings.

you just had a war in the country.. not a year before, but months.. days..

she wasn't being grilled about preparation, she was being grilled about how the story was 'there was a huge protest, and the embassy got attacked'

there was no protest, the embassy was 'randomly' attacked by 'a large group of heavily armed' individuals, and during the 7 hour firefight at the capital of a nation those people just worked to create, they requested military assistance 3 times. All of which were denied.

Furthermore, this marks the first terrorist attack on september 11th, since september 11th, 2001. which is really just a little too rich.

It's so obvious this is a Republican witch hunt. They're transparent.

Rand Paul is fucking nutcase and Hillary Clinton is one of the most well respected politicians in the last few decades. Do the math.

She's done. She won't run and I'm grateful for that.

Million to one this idiot confused Ron and Rand. Goes to show how some people who talk politics around here have no fucking clue what or who they are talking about.

I know he's Ron Paul's son....and he's been guilty of saying some looney shit in the past few years, and has done nothing except expose what a giant prick he is.

If you're a fan of Rand Paul, then it speaks to your own values.

Looney as in? Do tell.

I just happened to catch a report on the local news here in California that said the same thing - people are "leaving California" in droves because of the high taxes. I find this hard to believe; Anyone who makes any kind of decent money knows it's going to be a lot easier to hire an account and pay less taxes than it is to move.

We have Californian's moving here in droves. All say the same thing the cost of living and taxes.

I also think this is a witch hunt. This was a terrorist attack at one of dozens of Embassies has in hostile countries. We knew it was a target, but short of turning into a military facility with platoons of US Marines what exactly are we supposed to do?

I mean, fucking seriously....

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2012_Benghazi_attack

This wasn't four guys with handguns. This was over 100 men with heavy machine guns mounted on trucks. Outside of Iraq and Afghanistan, can you name a US embassy that can stand up to this kind of an attack?

This is a fucking witch hunt, nothing more, nothing less.

They are covering up what actually happened. Why is it so hard to understand that these politicians need to be held accountable for their actions? Why is it a which hunt to try and hold them accountable?

Why do you think 100-150 militants attacked this small little embassy? Especially militants we armed? That's the real problem here. They are covering up the fact that we armed these militants and they were pissed at this particular base of operations actions of meddling in their affairs. IE. one of the dead soldiers stated publicly he was there tracking the weapons we armed them with.


See above.. It wasn't a terrorist attack. It was blowback.

I guess the real question (in terms of stats) is: how many people = a 'drove'. lol

I saw an article that said (in 2011) 100,000 more people moved out of CA than moved in. In a state with 37,000,000 people, does that count as a drove? Droves?

The tax thing is a red herring. It's cost of living. The 3 states seeing the greatest number of CA transplants (TX, AZ, NV) all have dramatically lower costs of living. Check this out: http://money.cnn.com/calculator/pf/cost-of-living/ example: Cost of living in Houston is nearly half that of San Francisco.

That's because of taxes? Yeah right. Try housing cost, for starts.

did anyone take the time to listen to her responses? :1orglaugh she slammed all of them. The State Dept's requests for allocation more funding for security at embassy's was granted by the senate but has been consistently help up by the house.

Leave it to Comedy Central to show the biased OP's little charade.

Not to mention the hypocritical Rand Paul wanted to cut the State Dept funding by 71%.

http://takingnote.blogs.nytimes.com/...ghazi-hearing/

Right. Because she spanked them like the whiney little bitches they are. Hillary doesn't suffer fools. She's a very tough broad who for two decades has taken everything the GOP (AND other Dems) have thrown at her.

http://www.thedailybeast.com/videos/...-her-cool.html

Bread and circuses

I don't watch much TV, but Joe Scarborough sure ain't no liberal and he's on MSNBC every morning.

I get that you hate both parties. Who doesn't? But one IS better than the other, and positive change DOES happen when the people demand it. The problem is apathy. When citizens can't be bothered to learn the names of their lawmakers - let alone contact them - the lobbyists cum in their pants. Then they've got Mr. and Mrs. Senator all to themselves.

The people can demand clean elections, but don't. The people can insist on a fairer system of taxation, but don't. The people can insist on renewable sources of energy, but don't. Sure there's tons of dirty money polluting the system - but the people still have the vote - and the lawmakers know it.

I'm not saying ANY significant change is easy. It's always been a struggle. But positive changes have taken place over America's history, even with our fucked up system. Tons of them.

And I stand by what I said regarding Faux vs. MSNBC; Faux gets away with shit that MSNBC never could.

Now hold on. Are you suggesting the GOP would squander time and taxpayer dollars on a "witch hunt"? On some meaningless charade for solely political purposes? Is there any historical precedent for that? :1orglaugh

They are covering up... What? And by whom?

I swear, there is a conspiracy theory whack job nut case under every rock these days.

I'm not so sure. She has a tremendous amount of support on the ground. Instant name recognition. And a high approval rating.

She's extremely ambitious.

I think we'll have to wait and see.

I'd vote for her. She'd know how to handle Republican scumbags from day 1.

http://www.fairfaxunderground.com/fo...llary-2016.jpg

I don't watch Scarborough, though i've heard halfway decent things about him being somewhat impartial. I'm a little dubious, but I'll check him out

Yes I do, for a really good reason i'll get to.

"Who doesn't?" srsly Grant? Have you noticed the extreme rabidness of the people who have bought into the Tea Party scam? They're being massively hustled buy a bunch of social darwinists and they have no fucking clue of it.

When I talk irl with most people (dem or rep, not TP), they'll readily agree that both parties are fully corrupt and then they'll just continue on their way with being dem or rep.

TP dupes OTOH, are like religious fundamentalists. Even when you provide them with documented facts that contradict their worldview, it simply can't get inside their bubble.

If one is capable of looking dispassionately and rationally at the situation atm, then yes, the democratic party is much more acting like grownups atm. So sure, atm their steaming pile of shit is slightly less stinky. Whoop de fuckin' do.

The reason i 'hate' both parties can be summed up in 3 words: FOLLOW THE MONEY. And that's what 99% of people never no. If they did, they'd abandon both parties in droves, because they'd see that both parties have been whoring this country out for the last 30+ years!!!

98% of Dems and Reps have not served their constituencies for decades. They serve the big money interests that 1) get them elected and 2) get them highly paid employment after they leave government. IT'S CALLED THE REVOLVING DOOR FFS.


Sure Grant, i agree. But when was the last time that happened? Viet Nam iirc. 40 years ago.:(

Goes without saying. But most of our intentionally dumbed-down population is too busy watching survivor or american idol to give a shit about anything that really matters:(

If you look at polls, the majority of people are in favor of these things, but it doesn't fucking matter. 98% of the whores in Washington don't give a fuck what the people want. They serve their paymasters

That's wayyyy too simplistic. Especially since the Citizens United ruling. BTW, i'm willing to bet that at least 75% of the people who post in political threads here have no clue what the CU ruling is.

As it stands now, people like the Koch brothers can (and did) donate $100 Million to their candidates.

Think about that for a moment. For regular people to equal what the Koch brothers spent, it would take 2 million mere mortals each scraping up $50 to equal the Koch's 'voice'.

Anyone who wants to debate whether we're still living in a constitutional republic vs a plutocracy, let's go.

You mean like lying to go to war.. please go on.. (oh wait that's like so over 10 years ago so it doesn't even count a bit) :1orglaugh

It damn sure DOES count.

The U.S. govt. under Bush invaded other countries without provocation.

It was a nightmare that we all bought into (even the Democrats) because of the sting of 9-11 being so fresh.

It was and is a HUGE mistake. And history will not look kindly on it in my opinion.

Funny how many mainstream dupes on this GFY forum board.

If You can't live by The constitution, You deserve what you get.

Yea but the problem is no one is perfect and neither is Obama, but he was a much better choice than any of the guys that had even a slightest chance on the Republican side. He was also certainly the better choice over McCain and his ridiculous choice of Sarah Palin in the election before that as well.

Sadly we get the govt that our country deserves and so far the people of this country haven't done much to bring about any real change. You can't sit back and expect politicians whom are all getting money from corporations and lobby firms to do anything good for the people.

Until the people of this country stop just hating the other side of the fence and instead put the target where it belongs then we will always get guys that's aren't the best ones for the job but rather the best ones money can buy.

Its funny how in the private sector she'd be fired if something similar happened but since it's government then no big deal

That's a pretty silly comment. There were 11 such attacks during the Bush II administration. Nobody turned it into a witch hunt because grownups know that you simply can't prevent all those attacks. Even the republicans leading this witch hunt know this is true, but it's...umm...a witch hunt.

Considering the November results, how much good did it do them? There were lots of pissed off rich dudes who were very unhappy with Rove. They didn't get a return on that $$$. It doesn't always work.

So you favor a third party?

I used to be a Green. I voted for Nader in 2000. I felt exactly as you do. In fact, I hated the Dems MORE than the Repugs, because while the GOP practically bragged about being the party of the prickish 1%, the Dems were supposedly the party of the people - and they always fell short. But I don't feel that way anymore. Rather than trying to build up a whole new party (no small feat) that will end up splitting the vote for the Repugs anyway (unless "instant runoff" voting is established - another massive hurdle), I'd rather take over the Democratic party and change what needs changing, starting with real campaign finance reform (to try to turn off the cash spigot from which all political evil flows). Then make the elected representatives understand they need to do what's right or they're gone.

And what is so discouraging is that we have the power to do it right now. But most people don't even know the names of their lawmakers. Or care. Then we wonder why lobbyists have control of Washington. Because we gave it to them. You say no good legislation has been passed in the last 40 years, but dirty money has always been a problem in American politics, as has propaganda, and election theft - so why stop at 40 years back? It's apathy that is the problem. We just got too comfortable as a nation, and we love our big TVs and videogames.

I'm afraid things will have to get worse before they get better. I'm glad we avoided another Great Depression after Dubya. But another depression may be just what we need to wake us up, pay attention, and fucking get serious.

We don't need a new party. We just need to use the rights we have. We've had the luxury of ignoring them for a long time.

........That's completely beside the point. Where do you think the Tea Party would be without the huge money interests that hijacked that movement...AND gave them such an outsized voice? Nowhere, that's where.

And it wasn't just Rove and his Crossroads PAC, it was also Sheldon Adelson, Foster Friese, and (most insidiously) the Koch-backed Americans for Prosperity (increased prosperity for us ultra-rich americans, that is). and a whole bunch of other ultra-rich Social Darwinists who want to take this country back to the robber baron days.

I've voted libertarian for the last 20+ years. I had been rethinking that until Gary Johnson came on the scene for the Libertarians. He's what's called a pragmatic/progressive Libertarian as opposed to the Ivory Tower libs that make no sense to me.
With very mixed feelings, i think parties are inevitable..and i think the dems and reps are corrupt beyond repair.

Publicly funded campaigns FTW!!!

No. I said that the last time the people stood up and really demanded a change was 40 years ago w/the Viet Nam war.

Believe me, I don't. Since the dawn of the republic, there have always been big money Social Darwinist factions. Their power has ebbed and flowed. T Roosevelt fought hard against them (trust-busting etc) and FD Roosevelt carried that on with the New Deal that created a real middle class.

Here's the problem. Since FDR, the only president who tried to make real major change (in favor of We The People) ended up with his brains blown out in Dallas.

You're absolutely right. Both networks are biased, but...

At least on MSNBC they actually have in-depth political discussions, as opposed to Fox News that is just a bunch of righting wing idiots complaining about Obama this and Obama that.

Anyone on Fox News would be eaten alive by Lawrence O Donell and Rachel Maddow. They have smart people on MSNBC. Bill O Reilly and Sean Hannity are mental midgets. I'm not saying that because I also think they're assholes -- those guys are just flat out ignorant, bigoted and just idiots. I can't stand to listen to either one of them for more than a minute.

The republican party is in so much trouble because they listen to the Rush Limabaughs, Glens Becks and Sean Hannitys too much. The tail is wagging the dog.

Their products are fear and anger, and (credit where it's due) they sell them amazingly, incredibly well to a listenership/viewership that is largely ignorant of the big picture.

Then they fill their brains with whatever their paymasters tell them to.

They're so good at it that documented facts contradicting their claims almost never pierce that bubble in their dupes' minds.

World class brainwashing.

Don't give their product too much credit...the people they sell to are generally retarded.

But my father-in-law, who is an otherwise very intelligent guy watches Fox News exclusively and lives in that bubble. Any political talk sounds directly out of the Bill O Reilly playbook, and he's so under-informed. I can't even have a discussion with the guy. I remember telling him what a scumbag Romney was, and describing all of the reasons to back up my opinion -- but it didn't get through because he was the great white hope to get Obama out of the White House. My argument was vindicated in a pretty solid way when the 47% video came out the very next day, and then there was all of the other Romney douche-chill moments for the next few months.

The thing that finally convinced him Romney was slime, was hearing news that all of the campaign staffers credit cards were cancelled moments after the concession speech. I facepalmed.

More politely called low-information voters ;)

Dude, I know..I live this. 2 family members, bright, successful professionals are exactly like this. Like I said, world class brainwashing.

Sometimes i want to say "guys, O'reilly is paid to act like a bullying, obnoxious asshole. What's your excuse?"

True. Yet, how have the teabaggers been doing? http://www.nonprofitquarterly.org/po...er-fading.html

I know. And I'm sure all those scumbags were most unhappy on November 7th. They have tons of dirty money, but the people still get a vote. In spite of all his money, and the horrible CU ruling, the people have the power to jam Shelly's dangling old balls in his mouth and pull them out through his nose. It just sucks that more people don't want to. At least we can take some satisfaction that he didn't get the Rom-bitch he paid so much for. :1orglaugh http://www.usnews.com/news/articles/...ng-150-million

I don't see your point. Should we stop trying because anyone decent will surely be assassinated? Would Gary Johnson fare any better?

Fuck, yeah! :thumbsup

My mistake. And I agree. It's amazing what conscription can do. Make it personal, and suddenly people start to give a fuck. Then things start happening. To me, the shame is that we don't NEED to march in the streets and fight with cops and throw shit. All we have to do is use our fucking phones. Lawmakers DO take that shit seriously. They log those calls. They know the ones calling today will be voting (and/or donating) tomorrow. We also have the right and responsibility to attend the town hall meetings and ask real questions. The press always covers those things. I've been approached by reporters who wanted to follow up on a question I asked at a town hall - so then the readers of that paper saw the question - and the response by their elected official. And it didn't cost anything but a few hours of time. We really are so fortunate, and owe so much to the ones who fought for our right to vote, to get involved, and to question our government. We don't need to pick up arms. Just our phones will do - if enough people do it.