The government sucks off the corporations?

The corporations have purchased our government.

And you're right - the government is supposed to stand up to corporations and prevent them from exploiting the citizens. But that's "socialism" or "communism" or "fascism" or any number of "isms" that morons use when the government simply says "no" to corporate shenanigans. I've head it a million times. "We need to get government outta the way!" as if everything would work out if the corporations had free reign and regulations were all tossed out.

You're right, too, that corporations aren't voted into office. But there's a school of thought that says corporations are "people" and have "rights" to political speech. They think it's a good thing when corporations write big checks to political campaigns.

Because it's called "FREEDOM".

But my thought on that is...TERM LIMITS. The Congress made sure to impose them on a President. But not on themselves...convenient huh?

And yes...it's the GOVT. that is sucking on the tits of corporations. And when I say "Govt" I mean crooked politicians funneling money back to their cronies.

And they both suck off of US...the people.

GM, without crooked politicians NONE of the corruption can occur. The "Evil" corporations have no power until a politician is a corrupt piece of shit and takes money to do their bidding.

Stop derailing the thread over political nitpicking. The election is over. You "won".

Now let's dust ourselves off and realize we are all still losing and nothing would have changed either way unless we figure a way to get rid of lifetime, parasitic, politicians.

Actually I know many people who never use their insurance because that little stuff either isn't covered, or they have a bridge or deductible so large it's not worth it.

A friend of mine had been paying $600/month for his insurance every month. He did so for years. One afternoon, he felt a tightness in his chest, and vertigo set in. He asked a friend to drive him to the ER. They admitted him overnight and did a battery of tests. They never pinpointed the cause, and they released him the next day. The bill was $12,000. The insurance bastards kicked in $4,000 and he was on the hook for the rest.

So don't assume that these bastards will cover you even in a catastrophic situation. Most of the people who go bankrupt from medical bills HAD insurance.

Insured, but Bankrupted Anyway
http://prescriptions.blogs.nytimes.c...rupted-anyway/

Their primary concern is their profits - not your health. And that's a dangerous thing.


It's an evil system.

As an aside, another benefit of Obamacare is the elimination of lifetime caps, so there will be fewer bankruptcies.

For fucking WHO????

Yeah, with those subsidies and 0% tax rates...

I'm just asking questions. You don't like politicians taking money from corporations, yet you call it FREEDOM.

So is it a good thing, or a bad thing?

Just asking.

Freedom is a good thing. And a corporation shouldn't be censored in a FREE country.

The politicians taking the money are not the little angels you are kinda insinuating. Hell, they get into politics in the first place with full knowledge that they can leverage their power for money.

That's why I said the politicians are the parasites.

Now stop worrying about what my answers to this are and start thinking about the FACT that you, me, and everybody in the United States is being ripped off by these con artist/lifetime politicians.

I wonder if impeachments involving both parties, and term limits for ALL elected and/or politically appointed offices (perhaps even including the highest court in the land?), and tighter restrictions on access by lobbyists and a re-do of rules concerning all aspects of election funding, will start finding traction relatively soon?!

Think it might help ????

JFC. CORPORATIONS AREN'T PEOPLE! They don't HAVE voices! They are legal constructs! You've been brainwashed! Wake up from the nightmare!

You complain that corporations are in cahoots with government...then you say it's "freedom." They've got you thoroughly confused.

??? I insinuated politicians are "little angels?" Dude, you know you're talking shit.

It would largely solve our problems, IMO. How to do it, when the powers that be enjoy the status quo, is another question entirely. That doesn't me we don't try, of course.

GrantMercury...FREEDOM is not censoring corporations (which yes...are just people, the CEO's of corporations are not magical, they are just people). I have my own corporation, just like most people on here who own their own companies do. And if I want to hire a lobbyist to petition my local, state, or federal govt. on behalf of laws or regulations that would benefit me then I should be FREE to do so.

The problem is when the POLITICIANS refuse to play ball unless you grease their palms.

Corruption like that is rampant at all levels of govt.

I'm not sure if you have much experience in the real world, but anybody who owns a brick and mortar business can tell you that what I'm saying is true.

For decades people just accepted it as a "cost of business" to pay off city hall, county commisioners, inspectors, etc.

You are the one who needs to wake up and see how things really work.

The evil corporations are just people running companies trying to survive and make money.

The politicians on the other hand create...NOTHING. All they do is use their power to squeeze money out of corporations.

I know you won't listen because you don't seem to have any knowledge of how things work. But just do this...
You've been to a strip club before right?
Or have you ever been to a used car dealership?
How about a "regular" bar (not a strip club, just a bar)
Have you ever had a building constructed on property you own?
Have you ever owned a piece of business zoned property in city limits?

If you have ANY experience in those things (and a million more that I"m not listing), then you would KNOW that the local govt.'s are on the take. You wouldn't be the "evil" one using money to influence them, that's not how it works. They come to YOU with their hand out. And if you don't pony up...you're shit gets shut down.

Your whole attitude seems to be that of a sheep who loves govt and blindly follows along.

Hell, you've already completely derailed this thread about Obama Care and the FACT that health care costs and health insurance premiums are going UP instead of down.
The more govt. involvement...the more expensive it's getting. :(

But rail on brother. You seem to know everything...with absolutely no real world experience to back it up. Just your theories of how stuff would work in the land of unicorns and rainbows. :(

Does your friend have a medical condition? If not, he has shitty coverage. Paying $600 a month, should easily buy you 80% coverage.

Yes, he has a medical condition. And he's 55. And he (obviously) had shitty coverage.

The motherfuckers took his premium every month and then left him high & dry. But that's how they make money.

I've been against Obamacare since they started it
It has grown to 20,000 pages in regulations
https://pbs.twimg.com/media/BFGcd8oCUAEEc7k.jpg
Anyone that thought this would work, well, I told you so

A CEO is a person. A corporation is not. A corporation is a legal construct - not a person. Corporations can't go to jail. They can't get the death penalty. They don't get cancer. They don't have kids.

The great Bernie Sanders (I - VT) lays it out.


But wouldn't that mean those rich enough to hire a lobbyist would have more influence in Washington? You're in luck - that's what we have.


And those who do the greasing are THRILLED to do it. The returns on that investment are extraordinary. They love the system.

Yeah, the Koch Brothers are just scraping by. :1orglaugh The government is forcing them to dump $200 million into our elections. :1orglaugh http://2012.talkingpointsmemo.com/20...2-election.php

Sheldon Adelson, too, is being extorted. :1orglaugh
http://www.nytimes.com/2012/06/17/us...oups.html?_r=0

My whole attitude is that we need to keep thinking, asking questions, and working toward a better society. Government can do good or bad. Corporations can do good or bad. What's bad is that our current political system is swollen with cash. Or freedom. :1orglaugh

I think you derailed it.

http://thumbnails.visually.netdna-cd...9152e63634.png

If you think Obama Care is going to be different you are blind.

Not going to get it.

I guess the REAL bottom line is this:

The President promised that it would not add "one dime" to the deficit, and that it would lower the cost of "health care" (which was a lie from the beginning since it never addressed "health care" only health insurance).

Now the CBO has revised the numbers UP for the third straight year in a row for Obama Care and we are looking at around 2 TRILLION dollars it will cost the govt. alone. (and that number will probably rise again next year)

And, as I said earlier...even MSNBC was forced to report the truth: insurance premiums are UP and are gonna go up a LOT further within the next year!

So grading "ObamaCare" by what the President said AND the actual reason for it to exist (lower costs for health care and insurance)...then it is a complete and utter total failure. (unless you work for Big Pharma, Big Medical, or Big Insurance)

i've been rethinking my frustration on this.

the fact is, with a pre-existing condition, i look forward to finally having full medical coverage, i really do.

i will know more in october- just a few months away and that's the 1st i can apply for coverage beginning jan.1 2014.

i plan to go with one of the major carriers.

dyna mo I hope you are able to get covered.
BUT the question is...will you be able to afford that coverage?

I would think that there is really no logical way for an insurance company to cover people with pre-existing conditions at a cheap rate and still be able to turn a profit.

I'm thinking that all the folks with pre-existing conditions and especially those with life threatening cost intensive ones...are going to end up with HUGE premiums and very little coverage.

I'm thinking people are going to start being bankrupted by the insurance bill now instead of the medical bill.

This whole thing would have been a lot different if we actually had politicians that gave a fuck instead of the ones we have who are lining their pockets.

"ObamaCare" SHOULD have been all about opening investigations into why health care in the United States is price gouged and costs many times over what the same exact procedures and medication cost anywhere else in the world.

Instead...Obama lied about everything to do with it: From how he was going to be transparent with the whole process (he claimed it would be broadcast on CSPAN, instead it was all behind closed doors) to how much it would cost.

Total and complete shameless ripoff of the American people. :(

hundy bamacares

here's the only thing that gives me hope that the pricing structure can't be insane-

coverage is required by law, how could the average joe making $60k/year with a serious chronic issue afford, let's say, $2000 a month? is that crazy to assume? i'm just throwing #s out there now since i have to wait but i've budgeted $1000/month just guessing out of my ass! hoping. hooooooooping.

honestly, i think i'd be stoked if i were to get solid coverage from a major carrier for $1000/month- then i could bitch about the price going up annually!

I think you are assuming too much. You are linking a law with individual companies in a way that doesn't really work. Just because the law says XYZ, doesn't mean Company ABC has to help you achieve that law, unless the law says Company ABC has to do that.

I have not heard of any premium ceilings being in the law, but I haven't been paying too much attention either.

i'm looking at it strictly from a cost-prohibitive view, not saying it's right BUT there's simply no way they can price it out of reach and require it by law. if that even happened come january too many people would bring enough attention to it to fix it.


right? looking at it from the view of price it whatever, then where's the max? is there? $10,000 a month? $5000? $20k? i am required by law to pay $5000 a month for minimum coverage? with no caps on the system, is it wrong to suggest a $5000 a month insurance premium?


i don't see it.

here's something else, anyone with a pre-existing condition has pre-existing prescriptions/pharmacy bill.

so that will have to be absorbed into the new policy, or not. i haven't come across any info on whether or not that is required coverage. but my point is, man, i hope the baseline full-coverage policy isn't insanely priced AND i will still have to buy my monthly meds. fuck!

In a competitive market, it is not any one particular companies responsibility to offer you a price that you can afford, unless it is required by law. Unless the law says that there will be a price ceiling, which I have not heard of once over the past several years, you are assuming too much.

Why should Company A offer you a $500 a month premium if they don't have to? $1000? $2000?

I'm right there with you. I spend over $4000 a month on my medical care, and I have pretty good insurance. No insurance will cover what I need. So if I were to lose my good insurance and have to pay the new pre-existing insurance of $X,XXX plus my other $4000? I might have to start hooking!

i have to wait 7 months to know.

will it end up people will pay the penalty to the government and continue fronting their own healthcare costs under the new laws? no coverage but now with penalties.

I think so, yes. I believe some businesses will be doing the same.

wow, you spend out of pocket that much in addition to your insurance premium? i'm flabbergasted. that's staggering and actually what i am trying to avoid.

i currently spend 1/5 that, not spreading out er visits etc over the year, just monthly maintenance meds.

I read that in the CBO report. 7 million people are losing their employee insurance as companies are opting out over ObamaCare.

As for ceilings on premiums...yes there is a ceiling on the PROFIT that they can make. The insurance company is only allowed a certain percentage of profit on all premiums.

But since taking pre-existing condition patients is a total loss for them...the premiums are gonna be sky-high for that. And it's also probably the reason why all the rest of us are seeing our premiums go through the roof too.

Remember, the theory was that now since so many people were going to buy insurance it wouldn't cost as much? That ain't the way it's working out at all.

Again I will say it: The govt., the media, Big Pharma, Big Medical, Big Insurance are all holding hands and charging the people of the U.S. 3, 4, even 10 times what every other country pays for the same exact procedures and medication.

Until we stop letting politicians get away with this we are all gonna continue to be screwed.

ObamaCare should be repealed. EVERY politician in the govt. should have term limits (preferably ONE AND DONE). And instead of "investigating" steroids in baseball or putting Martha Stewart in jail...the Congress should be holding hearings to investigate the trillion dollar medical scam in our country and putting those people in jail and getting medical costs back to reality with the rest of the world.

i was buying insulin from canada, i have to get 3 different types but 1 of those i paid $38/a vial for lilly brand. the same exact lilly branded vial at walgreens usa is $140. 3.5x more.
then all the sudden canadian pharmacies weren't able to get this insulin, they told me for the longest time that their supplier in turkey was having a difficult time getting it. then, bam, they get it in stock and it's now $50 more than here, it's $190 a vial now in canada.


big pharma at work.

Yeah, I don't know if you remember this or not...but before the internet got big people were driving over the border into Canada to get their prescription medications.
For some people it was worth it to drive very long distances because the medication they had was so expensive.

I remember seeing the report on CBS Evening News back then (I think it was the early 1990's)

Anyway...Big Pharma lobbyists raised hell and the U.S. govt. BANNED people from doing that! Can you fucking believe it? They were actually searching people at the Canadian border for prescription drugs.

"Freedom"? It's a joke in this country.

And you're absolutely right...big pharma is the one who made sure that Canadian pharmacies are charging U.S. customers more.

I don't know where you live, but if you are in California I would suggest you drive down into Tijuana and get your prescriptions.
Not only are they way cheaper, but also a lot of stuff that our good old govt. forces us to get a prescription from a doctor for is sold over the counter in most other countries.

Cialis? Buy it over the counter. Testosterone? Over the counter. The list goes on.

And you think so because...?

Yes. There will be subsidies for those who can't afford the full premium.

I can't afford health insurance, so how can the government make me buy it?
http://news.consumerreports.org/heal...two-years.html

Here's more information on the Affordable Care Act:

The Affordable Care Act started changing the country?s health-care system almost from the moment it was signed into law in March 2010. It has already expanded coverage of young adults by allowing them to stay on their parents? plans until they turn 26, outlawed lifetime limits on what insurance will cover, lowered the cost of drugs for seniors on Medicare, caused 13 million consumers to get premium rebates totaling some $1.1 billion, and expanded access to free preventive care for patients of all ages. Last summer it survived a challenge in the U.S. Supreme Court.

But all that is prelude to the transformation coming in 2014, when almost all Americans will have access to affordable health insurance that covers essential care.
http://www.consumerreports.org/cro/2...form/index.htm

Communist. The pharmaceutical companies are just trying to make money. You got a problem with that? Aren't they FREE to lobby Congress? :winkwink:

And there are still stupid people out there who believe that Obamacare provides free health care.

No wonder this country is going to Hell in a handbasket!

And most of the ignorant fucks voted for the Rat Bastard the second time!

:2 cents:

It's capitalism. It's as American as apple-fucking-pie.

Thank GAWD we don't have a horrible "socialist" system like they suffer with in Canada. Those poor bastards and their reasonably priced medications. :(

Maybe some stupid people do, but so what? Some stupid people believe in "death panels" and that Iraq attacked us on 9/11.

It doesn't matter what stupid people think.

Obamacare is a small step forward in our FUBAR national healthcare system.

from the link you provided:

that doesn't cover my single person with a pre-existing condition making $60k a year with a $2000 insurance plan. this guy after taxes clears, ~$3500/month. even at $1000/month premiums, that's 30% of income paying insurance UNSUBSIDIZED.