Read about it in some history books never tried to find it online.

Would love to see it myself.

just to stir up the pot a little:

1. not everyone in power is religious, so religious people have the same argument about laws being passed based on non-religious beliefs as things being 'forced' on them

2. not every child molester is religious, yet that argument about those who are religious collectively taking a higher moral ground is exactly the same as atheists who believe they have the upper ground over dumb fuck religious nuts etc

3. religion doesn't claim to know more than science does. Non-religious people think religious people claim that, just like some religious people think science claims to know more than religious people do

4. how can any sane person on either side of the belief fence downtalk the other side without exposing their own hypocrisy on their belief?

religious nuts = annoying as fuck
atheist nuts = annoying as fuck

people who live and live (and yep plenty of religious people do that) = breath of fresh air

Well this starts to get to the very root of the problem. We are a greedy, narcisstic an violent species. Most only think of themselves, what makes them feel good and how they can aquire more stuff. To this effect the "MARKET" is probably the root cause of 99% of all human suffering and injustices.

I am a porngrapher and not a boy scout and I am not someone that has any right to lecture about morality. But as I get older I have started to see things as they truely are. I am old man and the fact is that I am not going to live much longer. Therefore I do not care what other people think when I speak my mind.

I have never met an athiest in my life that does not use politics as a basis to argue against the existance of the "devine." I also believe that scientists are pretty fucking arrogant when they claim there is no scientific proof of the "devine." After all what have they really accomplished in comparison?

Religion is violent because humanity is violent. But as I have come to understand from life experience, religion.... If followed correctly and without fault, offers a way out of the insanity. Unfortunately very few people are ever smart enough to understand how to follow a faith and even less are able embody the pious devotion that is required.

So I suppose that exiges the question if I regret choosing to be a pornographer.
In some ways I do. I was a flower child hippie and I saw porn as an extention of "peace and love." In a bizarre mannier I thought that showing sex as playfuly fun and enjoyable would help bring peace and happiness to the world. I certainly never imagined that the punters would take over the industry and make it a shitty mess.

Without a doubt there exists no conceivable way that I would want to get involve in today's porn industry. But unfortunately for me it is too late.

Yes, this is true and we know that most politicians make decisions based on greed regardless of their religious affiliation to boot.

It is my argument that decisions based on science, facts and logic in stead of religious superstition usually usually work out for the better.

If you don't think logic and reason are superior decision making paradigms to religion........ Keep on praying for rain and on every fourth day your prayers will be answered.

Science and technology have given us nuclear bombs, depleted uranium, a pacific ocean with more plastic in it than actual living creatures, created an over population problem, extinction of species, etc... etc... etc... etc....etc

If all of the so called "scientific-factual-logical" people were indeed scientific, factual and logical.... Then would it not have been prudent to NOT develop the "*toys*" that we use to kill our fellow human beings and destroy the enviroment?

A dichotomy of logic and science most often tends to be a very selfish dichotomy that provides power hungry men the tools to commit their atrocities but never accepts any blame or responsibilty for its own involvement.

So how about just basing decisions on sympathy, compassion, respect and tolerance. Which are at the very least words within the language of religion.... But are in of themselves illogical, non-scientific and factually irrelavant.

It doesn't? The Bible says the Universe was created by an omnipotent all powerful entity with human characteristics named God/Jehova/Elohim - in 7 'days'. It also includes a supposed factual history of mankind. The New Testament says God sent the world a Messiah, his son, who died for all humankind's sins. Nowhere in the Bible is it suggested this is just a theory and all of the three monotheistic religions, Christianity, Islam and Judaism accept and teach the Bible as fact.

Science offers for the creation of the Universe the 'Big Bang Theory'.

Half the idiots in one religion don't even know that the god of the other religion is the identical god, only named differently. Religions are full of violence too. Ever read that shit? Smite this, smite that, rain fire on your ass... jesus christ.

The key word is "Theory."
Webster's onlne dictionary defines the word "theory" as :

- An idea that is suggested or presented as possibly true but that is not known or proven to be true.

Therefore it is still just supposition on their part

Yep......People are mostly assholes no matter what they believe in. On top of that the current system of greed is really unfair to all but the very elite/wealthy. Greed causes most of the poor decisions of the non-religious. Science, reason and logic are not the problem, humans themselves are the problem. Greed, power and the misuse of technology are the problems you are pointing out.

The inmates are running the asylum!!!

Science and inventions can be either horrible or magnificent depending on their usage, this doesn't change the fact that science is real and provable and god is not. Using the tangible and provable as a basis for decision making seems better.

Another

This a great thread:thumbsup

Everything is a theory of one kind or another.
One must have a working model of some kind to get through this life and I prefer the least flawed working model I can come up with based on available (provable) information, reason and logic. However fucked up my working model may be, it is based on the natural world with no supernatural components at this time.

I find god absolutely unnecessary, primitive, detrimental and quite utterly stupid. :Oh crap

• What is the cure for the common cold?

• Where do a dogs gentic orgins come from?

• What caused the fall of the late bronze age culture?

There are still millions of questions that science still can not answer or solve. Therefore it is pure and total arrogance coming from a species that can not answer all the basic questions of on its own planent... Never mind trying to sit in judgement of something so vast and complex as the possiblity of the existence of the "Devine."

Science is an ongoing endevour of exploration and continous evaluation of current and past data.

Therefore where does a primative and violent species that does NOT have the common sense to not poison the enviroment even begin to create some sort of proof or experiment that will either prove or disprove the existence of an onipotent and omniscient super being ?

Think about the logic, we can not even decide if extraterrestrials exist or what kind of life might live beneath the deepest parts of our oceans. And here we have arrogant intellectuals saying "What I can not prove does not exist."

Personally it is through science that I see the existence of the "Devine"

Belief in a great creator is fading, and fading fast with each generation.

We are now in a society where people can think for themselves instead of sticking to beliefs we are taught from birth.

hell yea

like mortgages and cancer!

I did say "my working model" of things in my post. Working models change based on new data and mine changes as need be. Never once has the existence of god been added to my model. Not enough credibility to make it in there.

I don't have to prove what cannot be proven to assert my confidence in reason, logic and scientific process.

"What can be asserted without evidence can be dismissed without evidence." - Christopher Hitchens

"The onus is on you to say why, the onus is not on the rest of us to say why not." - Richard Dawkins

Also, if there is a god he/she/it knows just how much proof I require to believe a thing to be true. As of yet the cunt is withholding the required amount of proof.!!!

there has been some 'higher purpose' spirituality, in every society, no matter how isolated

your move

Yes, they needed it to make sense of the world as they were fucking primitive.

The System of Nature by Barron De holbach

The System of Nature, or, the Laws of the Moral and Physical World. Volume 1

http://http://www.gutenberg.org/ebooks/8910

Read up

luke magnotta.

http://www.nydailynews.com/news/worl...icle-1.1092270

was he a member here? is a member? anyone know?

how did their lives come to end the way they did exactly?

That's a bit of a stretch for what you said. It does indeed have those metaphors within it, and yes, a lot of religious people don't see the metaphor but take those (and pretty much all) of the bible literally. But I've still yet to see you back up your 'religion thinks it knows more than science' statement. It/they believe the above, but you won't find very many religious people who think religion trumps science overall insofar as 'knowledge'.

Actually after replying I can see now what you were getting at, I assume you meant religion thinks it knows more than science when it comes to the creation/development of Earth & humans. Yep, they're obviously wrong on that count, but it's probably about the only thing they believe they know better on when it comes to science - I read your previous post as they thought that in general - my bad if that wasn't the case :)

I don't disagree, but then I'm not religious. My point still stands, that those that *are*, are in your position, just in reverse, so the point I was addressing stands as to why that argument doesn't really work.

I'm curious btw, what decisions by the (your) govt. have been made that are based solely or partially on religion?

What strikes me as a bit 'funny' is it's almost all non-religious people who believe in extraterrestrial life, with the popular argument along the lines of "how arrogant to think that in this vast universe that's incomprehensible, people would believe that we are the only ones here". Yet don't grasp that even nature all around us is a 'higher power' than we are. But I digress, this thread is about religion specifically, and their use of the word god - carry on :)

I find it interesting that no one can show me this document.

I love this post. Long time atheist. It is hard to argue with someone who believes in the tooth fairy or Santa Claus...or god.

What is hard to *discuss* a subject with someone that is ignorant. I will bet that more than 95% of self-proclaimed athiests have never bothered to read any religion's sacred texts or hav done any kind of exploration or research into the relationship of minkind and faith doctrines.

Which is just as bad as those that profess to a particular faith without any attempt at a scholarly effort.


I have not yet stated what my beliefs are other than to say that I can glimpse what can be refered to as Devine because of science.

But to respond to your comments, I think we are a vilolent, narcisstic and arrogant species. Anyone claiming that there is no God simply because of a handful "Gee-whizz-look-what-we-can-do" techno tricks is nothting short of the utmost pathetic example of primate arrogance in existance. It is perhaps worst than someone putting on a funny outfit and claiming to speak for something called "God."


I know understand your "YOUTUBE" based perspective and I reiterate my prevous commentary about not being able to discuss any subject with ignorance. Unfortunately I have found that it appears that the vast majority of Internet based conversations tend to revolve around youtube, wikipedia and someone's blog about kittens.

All I will say is that there are many things that we do NOT know in this universe... And most likely a great number more that we do NOT know because we have no idea of what it is we are supposed to not know.

The list is nearly endless but just to name a few obvious ones (to most people)...

Telling tax paying citizens who is allowed to marry each other. Marriage defined as in the Bible.

What a woman can do with her body anything from birth-control options to abortion options.

Long opposition to any sort of gay civil rights protection or equal protection under the law.

Running their business/cults and not paying taxes on income.

And finally everything - the Supreme court is made up of individuals and many of their decisions are made based solely on personal beliefs which are of course ultimately based on their religious beliefs.

The aliens abducted it and took it back to heaven where Jesus is currently in the witness protection program for dead prophets and going under an assumed name. :thumbsup

1. why would non-religious people want to get married in a church? I'm not too up on whether same-sex unions are legal in the USA outside of a church, which surely have the right to do what they see fit with regards to their own religious beliefs are, in their religious places.

2. Again, I'm not in the USA but there are actual laws stipulating no birth control options, nor abortion options?

3. opposition isn't law though, surely?

4. Yep can't fault you there, though would chuck in the tax laws also greatly benefit google, apple, etc so that's just most of us fucked in that regard, no matter whether religion is involved or not.

Last paragraph, yep, though that's really just tough shit, unfortunate as that is :Oh crap

the existence of atheists further proves that god exists. Amen to that.

Just had to step out and grab some popcorn.

Now I'm ready to be enlightened by your explanation of that. :)

1...2...3...GO!


http://easygfree.files.wordpress.com...03/popcorn.jpg

I am a believer. I've heard stories from close family friend that when their 5 year old kid who was her final stage of her cancer was announced clinically dead for a couple of minutes then came back to life.

One day, she was in her hospital bed looking at bible story book for kids. And when she saw the man she met during her near death she said "mommy mommy, i met him before" (not that She HAD NOT A DAMN CLUE about jesus/bible) and pointed to a picture of jesus.

Her mom said, "that's jesus"
Little girl said "He told me, that I will be living with Betty"

The mom was clueless as to who Betty was. Her husband finally tells his wife that Betty was his daughter from his previous marriage who drowned and died when she was a little kid.

So 2 weeks later, that girl who had cancer finally died.

I also work in the medical field.. ive heard alot of weird stories.

There was this man right before he died, he started screaming "DONT LET THEM TAKE ME, DONT LET THEM TAKE ME". The nurses would try to wake up the man from that trance like state.. he died shortly after.

Another lady who hasn't spoken a word in 20 years, opened her mouth right before she died and said "It's beautiful".

So,.. it's UPTO YOU on what you want to believe in.

S

lol that's fucked

people just need to accept that there is no way to know if anything exists beyond this life and if there is a god he is not so shallow that he need to be worshiped and stupid rules made around it to 'punish' sinners. all you need to do is treat people with respect, use common sense and this world would be a much better place.