[QUOTE=kane;19848643]
Exactly.
people who build computers underestimate just how difficult it is for somebody who has no clue what even a GB is.
Saying macs are expensive and you could build a chesper pc is like saying a Ferrari is expensive I could just build a fast car myself for less.

sure maybe that guy who is an expert mechanic can build a car and make it as fast as a Ferrari but the chances are it's not going to be as visually pleasing and it's going to take him a lot of time which most normal people who have money just go by the Ferrari which also happens to come with a logo saying Ferrari or a repair shop they can drop off repairs or support they call for help.

I know I can build PCs for a little bit cheaper but at the end of the day if I have to have my staff to do it it's just easier to buy a mac.

That said if I need a really fast machine im building a pc as a mac would cost a lot amd that savimg of $6k is worth it but not a few hundred on $3k machine.

But yea its also preferance .....but oh year in can run windows on my macs too when I need both os which I often do.

Its hard for any sane person to deny that macs are expemsive but its also hard to deny they are the best out of the Box computer on the market.

http://technologizer.com/2008/08/14/...e-and-for-all/

Here some proofs!

Also the op like most idiots complaining is likely
flat out wrong since it sounds inaccurate and I believe someone posted proof it was wrong

Umm, no.

Again, no. The software is less popular, thus is targeted less than Windows. If OS X, or Linux, or BSD, etc OS becomes the most popular OS in the world - like Windows is - then you can bet your ass they'd be targeted and exploited like Windows is now.

OS X has a shit load of security holes that aren't exploited simply because OS X isn't targeted.


While I agree that most people have no clue as to where to even begin when it comes to computer hardware -- like my partner heh -- arguing that only Macs come working out of the box is pretty ignorant. Again, PCs and Windows controls the market share for a reason.

This is not to say that Mac is bad, or OS X is bad -- obviously, I run OS X exclusively -- but arguing that Macs are better because they work out of the box is just... lol.

Again, Mac hardware and PC hardware are the same.

That intel processor in your mac is the same intel processor in my "hack"; whether it be the core i5, core i7, or xeon. They are 100% the same.

The HDD/SSD in your mac is made by Intel/Samsung/Toshiba/etc (whoever the lowest bidder is at the time). 2 of my SSDs are made by intel, one by corsair.

The ram in your mac is made by the lowest bidder. I believe that this latest line of MacBooks has ram made by Samsung. My Ram is made by corsair, and I'm pretty sure I could use these same sticks of ram in say, an iMac.

GPU - In macbooks, you start out with nothing more than the same built-in intel HD4000, HD5000, etc that is found in PCs with onboard video. The "advanced" graphics in Macs is Nvidia and ATI, and are the same as any gpu found in PCs of the same level (a 780m in a mac is the same 780m in a pc, etc). The HUGE difference between gpus in Mac and gpus in PCs are they perform about 20% WORSE in Macs.

Even the high-end GPU's that you can get in a mac pro, like nvidia quadro or amd firepro are equally available to pc.

Well, from the looks of it, most of them are buying PCs. There is a reason PCs and Windows still reigns supreme, and probably always will.

Maybe the old Final Cut Pro was back in it's heyday, but Final Cut Pro X? Don't make me laugh lol. You should have made that argument for Logic Pro X for audio people instead.


Also, don't get me wrong, I think Macs are great. Rather, I think OS X is great. I run it exclusively, but not because I think it's better than Windows because I don't. OS X just suits my needs better than anything else at this time.

I just don't see myself shelling out that much for a real Mac because I know that most of that money is for nothing more than the logo. It has nothing to do with whether I can afford it or not, because I can. I just like getting the most value for my money, and the best value for me would be to build 3 of the same systems as I have now for the cost of 1 Mac. And now I have 3 times the overall power and productivity capabilities that your 1 mac has.

I should also note that I don't skimp on my pc parts. I don't buy the cheapest shit, I buy the high end shit that's built to last. I do however cut costs for things I don't need, like buying a mini-ITX motherboard because I have no need for SLI or multiple PCI-e slots, and because it's smaller but still provides the power and features where I need it to. And if I needed more PCI-e slots or the like, I'd just buy a different motherboard that has what I need. That's the power of choice.

I also love to tinker, which I wouldn't be able to do in with a Mac.

When I built my first computer, I didn't know what the fuck I was doing. You know how I solved that problem? I RTFM'd (Read The Fucking Manual). It is only "difficult" for people to understand because most people are too lazy to try and learn anything for themselves.

Oh, the dumb Mac = Ferrari vs PC = Hyundai analogy again. This analogy fails for so many reason. The primary reason being, Macs and the PC equivalent counterparts have the same hardware. Ferrari's and Hyundai's do not.

I find this statement funny, considering that you just tried to use the "Mac = Ferrari, PC = Hyundai" analogy just 2 short paragraphs ago. So are you now saying that a shitty little Hyundai has more power and speed than a top of the line Ferrari?

All hope apparently is not lost on you though. I for one was never talking about a difference in price of a few hundred bucks. But when it comes down to $3k for the basic model with less specs vs my $1,200 system...

Your are off on so many ways.
First
When debating Mac price don't talk about building a computer it holds ZERO RELEVANCE.
Does no one get that?

1. Who cares what the reason is mac get less viruses , THEY GET LESS VIRUSES! Less build in ads etc. I have a sony laptop and I watch Hulu and Comcast online and you know how many times I get a popup that takes my movie out of full screen and it drives me nuts and I have to go to disable it you never get that on a Mac ever

2. People prob buy more cheap toilet paper does that make the cheap sand paper stuff better? Nope. Makes it cheaper.

Consumers buy a superior package. Apple design, hardware , cloud , itunes iphone, included software , ease of use , the brandname , support and cool factor etc etc u simply DO NOT GET WITH ASUS OR HP ETC..

4. Ur are right about the os being a big part but u don't put a price on a superior os?
So ,people that want a better os amd don't build a whole computer are being ripped off

Furthermore ready link posted pcs not really cheaper anyways...

I realize what I said...i did say it.
I know how to build a computer most people don't. So it makes sense.

You are saying a average person with a non tech background is lazy cause they don't learn how to build a computer? That just dumb. Dude
I'm talkimg real world not tech geeks.

Also I didn't say Hyundai that would be stupid.
I said a skilled mechanic could build an equally fast car but its takes a lot of time , experience and it's likely not going to be as a visually pleasing and mising a few other key items like the apple package amd its just not an option for non geeks....

for all you tech geeks talking about building ur machine why don't you go bake all your bread cause you could probably do it cheaper and make it taste better.

and since there's people that know how to bake everyone who doesn't do it is getting ripped off and is lazy and stupid

Your argument was that OS X gets less virus' because it's a better OS when, in fact, that is not the reason. So to sit here and now say the reason doesn't matter after your previous argument was proven wrong is pure nonsense. If the day ever comes that OS X becomes the most popular OS, then it will become targeted like Windows is.

If the cheap toilet paper is virtually the same in every way imaginable, and even better than the expensive toilet paper, then yes, it would matter. You should stop trying to make analogies because you fail terribly at them.

That is the most ridiculous and ignorant thing I have ever heard.

Sure, I put a price tag on the OS. I paid $20 for Snow Leopard (iirc), $20 for Lion, $20 for Mountain Lion, and nothing for Mavericks.

The "superior OS" part of your argument holds no value or relevance because if it were truly superior then it would be the most popular. I mean, if you're trying to argue that people want and pay for the best, then why aren't more people paying for and buying Macs?

An outdated article from 2008 with a pretty obvious bias from a site I've never heard of. I wonder how hard you had to search before finding that 1 article.

Lol, Perfect!

Vdbuck ur vd has gone to ur head.

Yes ok ur right. Macs are overpriced because u can personally build one for cheaper. Kudos. and everyone who buys one is lazy cause the dont learn to build a computer by hand.

Personally I'd rather spend my time makimg money than playing lego with my computer hardware and getting the blue neons with liquid cooling.

ur most popular os argument nlah blah.
I guarantee you at least 50 percent of Microsoft users had the money they would buy an Apple.

Apple is the richest company in the world for a reason amd I guess its got nothing to do with the entire package that apple offers and it's because all apple users hate the ecosystem , feel apple ripped them off and they are just too lazy to build a custom pc.

So I assume you do complete brake jobs on your car? Change out injectors, do tune ups, change the oil, replace front end parts ……. ? Or is this somehow different? If you don't do ALL the above is it for the reasons you listed?

And just because I choose to buy a finished product and have zero interest in building my own doesn't make me lazy or stupid. It just means I have no interest, just like you probably have no interest in auto repair.


.

I had no technical knowledge when I built my first PC. I was actually told by a friend that building your own PC was better than buying one off the shelf, and cheaper. So I ordered the parts, read the manuals - every single component you can buy that's worth buying has a pretty in-depth manual - and put it together. It wasn't until after that that I became intrigued and started focusing on the technical aspects. And even now, I don't know everything, for instance, my knowledge in overclocking is pretty limited.

The fact of the matter is though, building a pc is not rocket science. No one is suggesting that people should design their own hardware, like your failed Ferrari analogy suggests. PC hardware can, for the most part, only be plugged in one way; screw holes lines up a certain way, etc.

all building a PC takes is a little reading and learning, again, it's not rock science. he problem though is, some people are simply too lazy to read and learn, which is why companies like Apple can come along and milk every dollar they can out of you buy selling you and overall inferior product as compared to what else is available on the market for less.

I'm saying the average person with no tech background coming along and trying to declare that something they know nothing about is better than something else they know nothing about are complete and utter morons. All 99% of Mac fanboys know about is what they read in the advertisements.

You are still suggesting that a Mac is comparable to a Ferrari and a PC is comparable to something less, and that argument failed then, and it fails now.

Simply put, if Macs and OS X were truly superior to everything else, then why do MOST people still buy PCs with Windows? Regardless of the market, PC/Windows controls more of it than anyone else.

Actually, yes, I do most of my car maintenance myself. If it's something I don't have the tools for, I take it somewhere who does. But, once again, comparing cars to computers is completely irrelevant, no matter what the purported argument is.

I have no issue with you choosing to buy your Mac, just as you should have no issue with me buying my faster PC for a lot less and installing OS X on it.

What I take issue with is people who swear up and down that Mac is better than PC when they have no fucking clue as to what they are talking about. And if you, or any other Apple Logo fanboy actually knew shit about anything, the very last argument you would be trying to make is that Macs have better hardware, when it has been proven time and time again that they, in fact, use all the same hardware components as their PC counterparts.

So yes, to those of you who know jack shit about computers, hardware or software that come trying to argue that something you know fuck all about is better than something else you know fuck all about, then I consider you a complete fucking moron.

I really don't understand the hate and hostility in your comments.

Back in the late 90's when I first started using computers getting a system to run photoshop and video editing was impossible until I got an apple system. The mac did everything I needed perfectly.

To me a computer is just a tool, a means to an end. Over the last 15 plus years they have worked flawlessly for me. Why would I change? When I need or want a new computer I naturally go with what has always worked for me. I would be foolish not to.

To call me a "complete fucking moron" for being a satisfied customer of a product is pathetic ??


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When you have no actual knowledge of what comes in a PC or a MAc then yes, I consider you an idiot and absolutely consider you lazy when you sit here and try to argue that one is better than the other. Your arguments are incorrect, invalid and completely irrelevant when it comes down to the simple fact that you clearly have no knowledge in the difference between a PC's Intel Core i7 and a Mac's Intel Core i7.

Sorry if you're forced to spend all your time working and have no time for hobbies, or otherwise personal enjoyments in life.

Another fact you cannot dispute so you choose to ignore it.
At least show me some form of proof when trying to make such a bold claim.

You clearly aren't paying attention are you? Apple is slowly but surely losing it's market share in the mobile world, which is where they made, and continue to make the vast majority of their money.

Like Samsung says, "The next big thing is already here".

I think you misunderstand my position here.

You think Mac is better because you like it better. And I cannot, nor will not, nor have i tried to argue with that. If you choose to like one thing over another then it's your choice. Just like it's your choice to pay more for something and get less out of it. I will however, use facts in an attempt to enlighten you on what you're really paying for (the logo).

I'm talking to those people - and you included if you've tried to - who try to declare as fact that Macs are better than PCs when in fact they know nothing about either one. People who do this are morons, they're uninformed and unintelligent. Especially those arguing nonsense like "superior hardware" and attempting to use foolish "Mac = Ferrari, PC = Hyundai" comparisons.

I am also simply trying to inform and educate people about the actual differences (like in my first or second reply in this thread when I broke down my system and what it really took to install OS X on it).

If you're going to get involved in a debate, then you sure as shit should know what you're talking about, otherwise you will be labeled as a moron.
If you have no interest in a debate and offer up nothing more than "I buy Mac because I like Mac" then I'm not really talking to you in the first place.

When it comes to photoshop and video editing mac's have always been better. Moron.


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Funny, Photoshop works equally well in both windows and mac for me. There is no discernible difference between the 2 except for keyboard shortcuts, and that has zero to do with anything other than Mac and Windows being different platforms with different uses of modifier keys.

Video editing mac vs video editing in PC. I seriously hope you're not trying to suggest that Final Cut X is better than anything else available for either Mac, or PC? That would be laughable. I had Final Cut Pro 7, have Final Cut X and have the Adobe CC suite and while Premiere Pro vs Final Cut 7 might be a toss up, Final Cut X doesn't even come close.

Moron.

Windows doesn't even come with a built in terminal and when you install Putty control and escape keys don't quite work the same. Windows is bloatware and still hasn't gotten process control right.

Do Windows boxes run XCode ? No ? Game over.

No argument there, one of the main reasons I run OS X is because of the terminal. It's something Windows will never have, because, quite simply, Windows is not derived or based upon Unix. So to be fair, the only reason OS X has a terminal is because it's Unix with a nice GUI.

Incorrect. Individual manufacturers put that bloatware crap in. It can also be removed. I wish they wouldn't put that junk in to begin with but it is what it is.

If you have to find reasons not to buy a Macbook Pro over an Asus. The Macbook Pro isn't for you.

And frankly no one gives a fuck.

Consider all the extra revenue you could have generated for your business by using the same time you wasted here discussing this never ending debate.

Wow why is it some people get all worked up about someone saying anything about a consumer product?

Its like some of you invented it, why take things so personal?

I have a mac, we have 4 iphones in our family and 3 ipads. We also have 3 windows pc/laptops.

If someone tells me apple is crap, or a pc is crap i just laugh. If domeone calls me an apple fanboy i dont really care. They can argue all day long about specs but in the end it comes down to the person using it. If he/she likes it, even when he/she tells me its way better when its not, why get all worked up about it?

I don't spend every hour or minute of my day working, because I don't have to. Sorry if you do.

I'm not worked up in the least. As far as why people - like myself - bother to get into these debates... I'm passionate about technology and pretty much everything to do with computers. Therefore, I don't mind giving facts, sharing opinions or even getting involved in debates.

When it comes right down to it, I don't particularly care what OS, hardware or otherwise that people choose to use, or like better. I will, however, interject and attempt to inform - or otherwise ridicule - people who try to declare as fact something of which they have absolutely no actual knowledge whatsoever about.

Look at it this way. Say you're a firing range instructor and you're trying to explain the proper way to hold a handgun. I simply flat out refuse to listen and maintain the absolute position that holding a handgun sideways is the proper way to hold it "because it's better", even though I have absolutely no knowledge whatsoever about firearms. You would likely try to explain it a few times, eventually you'd want to slap me upside the back of my head if I refused to admit my ignorance on the matter; and maintained that I am right and you are wrong, even though countless facts have proven me wrong over and over again.

So much hostility every post? Im glad im not in the adult field of work haha. See myself calling every possible mac loving client a moron. Would be at my chiefs desk in 5 minutes packing my sandwiches to go home and never return meh.

Ok. I understand that part. But why? What do you gain from it? And why so hostile?

I dont know you so please know im not knocking you. But from the posts in this thread alone i would think you are a very aggresive guy. Try to debate it a bit more civilized?

Again, no harsh feelings but from what im reading (internet can do that) i would be hesitant to do business with you.

Well, first and foremost, I don't have a boss. Secondly, see below.

I'm not hostile, just blunt and direct. And for the record, I have no qualm with people loving their Macs, choosing Mac over PC, or otherwise. I mean, I do run OS X exclusively on a machine I built specifically to fully support and run OS X after all. And again, the only thing my "Hack" doesn't do is come with the Apple warranty or logo. All my components have warranties though so...

I only get "hostile" when certain completely ignorant people do everything in their limited power to assert something as fact when in fact they don't know what the hell they are talking about. And it's really not hostility at all, I'm simply relaying to those people what I think of them.

And to be honest, I don't really care for people spreading misinformation. Sure, it doesn't affect me one way or another when they do, but it does annoy me. In every argument I make, debate I get involved in, or otherwise, I try my damnedest to come with facts and present them as such, keeping my opinions discernibly separate.

So when people come along talking about how much greater Mac hardware is than PC hardware is -- for example -- then I am first going to try to explain to them how it is in fact, not. And then if they refuse to listen to reason and blatantly ignore facts, I'll inform them they are morons.

Too many funny cracks in this thread to quote.

:1orglaugh

Ok vd so then tell me all things considered What computer out of the box is better than the new mac? Pls prce our a mac amd windows machine custom build ad post graba

Also stop pls talking about building fuking computer its not relevant. Normal people in this world don't!

Wimdow is popular cause it faimed market share eaelier.

I'm not saying the hardware in mac is proprietary and better but quality is better that lots of shoddy companies rhat maken windows machines and .... just overall where most people buy their machines macs have been cooler and better for a long time imo.

Mac v dell out of the box. And notice the pics of the guts if you cant notice the major difference there you are too biased.

Http://hothardware.com/m/Reviews/Is-...lt.aspx?page=4

http://hothardware.com/articleimages...ody-inside.jpg

Mac pro guts are are art where dell looks like I made it myself.

That is the difference between normal computer users and fan boys. Fan boys go to bat for their team. Everyone else uses whatever they bought and doesn't worry about it.

i recently bought and received a video game on the day it was released. it was loaded with bugs including a support link that was 404, so i googleds the official forum, created an account and posted a thread stating the issues and was flamed by many many fanatics, including a mod.



the good thing was my gfy training provided me the tools to backhandedly bitch slap all of them! :1orglaugh:1orglaugh

I'm not entirely sure what you actually said but here you go:
http://www.pcmag.com/article2/0,2817,2372609,00.asp
http://www.pcmag.com/article2/0,2817...obref=obinsite
http://www.pcmag.com/article2/0,2817...obref=obinsite


The Mac operating system predates Windows by nearly two years. However, the hardware platform known as the PC (uneducated people refer to Windows and "PC" as though they were synonymous) predates the Mac hardware platform by three years.

I don't recall ever arguing that the Mac Chassis' aren't visually appealing. I mean, my Bitfenix Prodigy case more or less replicates what a mini mac pro would look like (if it were black). But, visually appealing as they may be, Macs have the same hardware inside as PCs do. And this has been my point from the very beginning. Guys like you simply cannot accept this fact though and create a huge debate, perhaps it's because you need to justify to yourself why you spent more for your intel processor than I did mine.

Intel, Nvidia, ATI, Samsung, Foxconn. None of those companies make superior product lines specifically for Mac, nor do they make inferior product lines specifically for PC.

The only difference between an Intel cpu in a Mac and an Intel cpu in a PC is the price Apple charges you. Same thing for memory, HDD/SSD and graphics.

you simply refuse to see the basic point.
ITS NOT ALL ABOUT HARDWARE. ONLY A PERSON WHO BUILDS MACHINES WOULD THINK THAT AND MOST DONT.
if it was company that sold cheapest box of loose hardware would dominate.

i have mac and windows machines for specific purposes based on requirements and price nothing more.

vdbucks, I'll be bidding for you on the item below. Hopefully it wont get above 50 large.

Merry Christmas

http://www.sothebys.com/en/auctions/...14/lot.27.html


lol …..


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Macs are niche machines, but when comparing cost vs benefits, Microsoft based machines take over.

Maybe 10 years ago. Not these days.

Premiere and Avid are identical on either system.

I don't think that you are a moron, but that statement is pretty dumb at this point.