uhm......

Well, you are european Roald so maybe working in porn IS the same as working at IBM, in Europe. LOL

Do you wear a suit and tie at Payserve?

What does a suit and tie have to do with it?

Ok, I am going to try and incite a bunch of people including folks I don't even know to stop doing business with you just because you represent competition to me but you are cool with that right?

I privately advised them to start speaking in terms of raw clicks or Impressions, and not uniques. It sounds much more damning and menacing to say "we as a group, are withdrawing our 3871 impressions" than "we as a group are withdrawing our 183 uniques"

I still can't get enough of the idea that a group of people whose support tickets submitted, outnumbers their confirmed joins are going on strike.

Further, this whole notion is supposed to cause you to pause and reflect on your unrealistic attitude and fragile bargaining position.

The world hasn't seen anyone overplay their hand like this since Joan of Arc

LOL Everything dude, everything.
Never mind, I'm bowing out of this ridiculous thread.

Carry on.

I think I missed the part where you showed how many joins you send anyone and how many joins others are sending. Feel free to show that part or link to it so I can see. :)

I do fine. That's why I am never complaining. My only income is from this biz. Sorry if that's painful to hear. In fact, I quit and came back a few times simply because it's so easy to make money amongst people like you as competition.

Oh come on. Show us your cock. We're all losers. So show us yours and then show us everyone else's stats because evidentially you have all that information.

You're a loser because you yourself proclaim to be one nearly everyday. My income has nothing to do with you being a failure.

It seems to me you are probably just all talk. Whatever then. I don't have time for this. Because I don't find pay site to be sustainable venture for affiliates does not mean that I am not making anything in the industry or making 10 times what you are.

Yes, and maybe just maybe you yourself can step back a little and look at the future. Everyone person who fights back against giving away all the content and allowing tubes to thrive makes a difference.

If affiliates who don't agree with the tube model only send their traffic to programs who don't support tubes, Things will change, Maybe not a lot at first but every change makes a difference :2 cents:

A tie does make it a lot easier to pull someone head out of their ass... maybe that's why we don't wear them in Europe :-)

LOL! Pretty good imitation of 12clicks there. Keep practicing and someday you may be deemed worthy to pull out your little dick and piss up to old roofer himself. Wouldn't that be something, eh?

Admittedly blowhards like the two of you are actually good for a cheap laugh every now and again.

More importantly though, it's threads like this that bring all of the tube boys slithering out from under their rocks and thereby makes it easier for the rest of us to take note of them. A tube boy roll call if you will.

Keep up the good work :thumbsup
.

No offense, I really am trying not to belittle you, but I have survived the sky falling on this industry for years by being nothing if not forward thinking. Ask around.

Moreover, as a huge Grateful Dead fan, I have understood the power of free content way before tubes even existed. So on that point we are just going to have to agree to disagree.

Go on believing your own assumptions, you are entitled to them, but don't attack my business with your baseless convictions.

To hear you and your fellow travelers say it, traditional affiliates are as worthless as tits on a bull nowadays.

So if that is in fact true, why is it that you view Ed Hammer's suggestion as an attack on your business?

Serious question.
.

That's what I thought.

It has nothing to do with anything but it's ok, figured you'd say something along this line ;)

Never said I was anti affiliate. I am anti people complaining incessantly about things that aren't even necessarily problems in the first place; rather, just things they don't understand or benefit from easily. However, it is one thing for me to say I won't do biz with anyone that uses _____ traffic. It is another to say no one should do biz with so and so because I say so.

Also, we actually get affiliates whenever this debate gets rolled back out for a spit and polish otherwise I wouldn't even be wasting my time.

I seriously hope that makes sense.

Makes perfect sense that an affiliate who is hurting from tubes and doesn't have a tube site would only want to push their traffic to programs who feel the same. Not telling all affiliates not to push your or other programs. Just putting it on the minds to the ones that disagree with the tubes.

I will be more than happy to have just those affiliates.

Actually i was being philosophical in my response.

Wearing a suit and tie is most common in America's "real world/non-porn world". MANY industries go without suits & ties, like the music biz, Hollywood, etc etc. But the basic "corporate world" in America is: suit, tie, mindless compliance. Basically the antithesis of working in porn. LOL

So wearing a suit and tie to your boring office job is way, way differant than working in porn. Just sayin'. :) Again, maybe differant in Europe. :)

At hustler they wear suits also at Naught America or at least last time I was at those places ;)

It seems the only reason we lost affiliates was once epass robbed money we refused to go to paxum. Once bitten... It seems, most, not all, are trying to use that income and not declare it. My account advised against facilitating that.
. That was that
Ds

How many? So many programs closed. So many affiliates dead. So many content owners struggling. Who are these 'many'?

And what could you possibly be doing to get ratios in the 1:500 area when most of us still get 1:5000 ... (not counting funneling etc... which is just another way of whittling down 5000 surfers to getting the 500 most interested to visit the paysite).

What you want is one thing, what you'll get is another. Sponsors are more likely to completely abandon affiliates if they don't see sales coming in from affiliates.

Prove to those sponsors using tubes that you can make sales for them without tubes and you give them a reason to have an affiliate program.

I was wearing a suit in my mainstream job years ago.. really I don't miss that, I never learned how to tie a tie quick :)

http://howtotieapp.com/wp-content/up...iental-tie.gif

The facts are what they are. I have never once spoken to 12clicks in my life and we have both been in this biz since it started. He understands what I understand. A business person continually deals with reality and the facts as they are... or risks extinction.

An idiot, lives in a fantasy world, dreaming of a time that will never happen.

Your bias is why you've failed or will ultimately fail. "Tube boys"? I don't currently own one. But they are fact. They are the current reality. Broadband and faster streaming is the current reality. The traffic is there, that is the current reality. I could spend all day bitching about it, or I can spend all day looking at all the many ways it could be exploited while people like you bitch and whine and complain and fade away.

Sponsors began abandoning affiliates many years ago when many programs started going to invite only just to avoid dealing with the 97% that have no traffic and endless wants, needs and demands.

Affiliates have no power in this business because with the exception of a few, their traffic is shrinking constantly as they proven unable to actually make it in a maturing business, they cost a lot and they cost a lot to maintain and support.

Tube sites are not only a massive source of traffic, but also zero maintenance, high volume affiliates.

I think there's a time and a place for a suit and tie.

In my office working isn't one of them.

If I have a meeting? Yes.

That whole "suit and tie" mentality is for employees of brick and mortar. I'm not an employee and haven't been one since I was a stock boy at a dept store when I was 16.

Since then I've been self employed all the way.

I do like to dress up in a suit and tie and look sharp. But not on a daily basis in my office. I work much better in casual clothing.

Of course I would dress up every day if I were an employee in sales. Or if I had to meet with people on a daily basis.

Actually a suit and tie makes you more productive. Try it and you will see.

Which can change overnight with a single Google algorithm update that no longer favors tubes.

That's how precarious the whole situation is and a valid reason for sponsors not putting all their eggs into one basket.

Search algorithms are about favoring the user. Not particular site types or content. Search engines are about giving users what they want and what they are searching for. As long as users search for and want to go to tube sites, they'll have the lions share of the search traffic.

I'm a firm believer in the "dress to impress" model as well. Not for others, but myself. Others are just a bonus.

Hey why don't you show us what YOU do in this industry? :winkwink:

Not if Google wants to weed out sites lacking in quality unique content and put tube owners and other cookie cutter porn sites in a position of having to pay for listings.

Search engines exist to generate revenue first and foremost.

Google and other search engines, strive to give people what they are searching for. It really is as simply as that. Tubes will go away when users stop looking for tubes. Until then, they will dominate search results. What you are saying, just means results will be shuffled around between higher quality tubes and lower quality tubes. but overall, search engines will still be giving users what they are searching for.

Search engines generate revenue by creating an experience relevant to the user (results/ads)... not by generating arbitrary results based on the pipe dreams of others.

A higher quality tube would be a sponsor giving out it's own high quality videos and not bothering with submitting crappy samples to lower quality tubes or accepting crappy samples from other sponsors in exchange for more traffic. The onsite content would remain unique. The user experience would be of the highest quality.

The lower quality tubes would just have to pay to advertise in the results.

Surfers would still get what they were searching for.

Revenue would still be generated.

And Google is leaning more and more towards making that "pipedream" a reality.

That assumes the so called "higher quality tube" also can beat pornhub, xvideos, xhamster, tna, keezmovies, tube8 etc etc etc etc at SEO. One thing this industry was in severe denial about was pornhub et al and their aggressive SEO and link buys which pushed all their sites to the top of search results. I was selling them links as were many and watched them and all SERPs for major phrases daily. When a site like keezmovies was launched, they moved it up from zero to the front page for major terms very fast. When they lanched a cam site called camhub, they moved it from zero to the top 3 for major cam terms very fast. They did that with most of their properties and at various points, more than 5 out of the top 10 results for words like "porn" or "porn movies" or whatever were their properties.

There are always "higher quality" sites out there. They lose to those who have more and more relevant and higher quality backlinks.

Its not just about "content" or "quality' as defined by each persons subjective notions. Search engines run on formulas to determine not only relevance but authority. You can launch 6000 sites tomorrow that are perfect in every way,. they still won't show up in competitive searches.

Google propaganda.

Search engines are there to make money. No other reason. Not even the user.

It's not as SIMPLE as that. Not by a long shot. They have shareholders, board of directors and an ego to boot.

They need to give just enough to people to keep themselves (google) profitable.

In my opinion google is the best search engine out there. But they are not that great at giving results. Just better tha bing/yahoo.

Explain how they maintain and grow an user base and grow ad revenue with irrelevant search and ad results?

All erected on the assumption that such lower quality tubes won't also be de-emphasized by an algo update, thus pushed to the backend of results or out of the index completely.

Right... they are better than bing and yahoo at giving users what they are searching for.

Exactly.

Thanks for agreeing with me.

Here you contadict yourself.

In one post you say google gives traffic to tubes cause it's best for the user.

Now you are saying that their SEO (massive link building/buying) is the reason.

I think the "assumption" is that your subjective idea of "lower quality" is going to magically align one day with Google's updates. They know exactly what users search for and what links users click on. They know what users are looking for and want with respect to each searched phrase.

This is literally the same type of arguments that text writers on this forum make.. that quality text matters a great deal when it so clearly doesn't as search terms are completely dominated by sites with no text other than the anchors on the page.

I agree ONLY on that point.

They still suck and can give users MUCH MUCH better results but choose not to. So it is NOT about user experience. It's about just being good enough while maximising income.

Not irrelevant. Just okay. Since there is nothing better people have no other choice.

Its a combination. Your assumptions completely discount SEO as a means to rank for terms and I was pointing out that its also a huge factor. Whether its natural or not.

They have teams of phd's working on improving search results. Thats what a search engine is... search results.

Your thinking on the issue is not even rational. You are talking conspiracy theory and ignoring the fact that all revenue and business performance and success in a competitive environment requires a search company to do search well.

So google gives users the best experience only if that website does a lot of work and pays lots of money to rank well. Of course all webmasters have deep pockets and can do this. Of course all non commercial websites that have great content can do this too, or even know about it. Yeah sure.

Really? Wow I learned something today! :)

Note to Hustler and Naughty America: casual Friday every day people. LOL

I worked until 5:30 am last night/yesterday, the whole time in my nifty penguin boxer shorts. LOL Tonight I have a dinner where I have to wear a jacket. WooHoo classy! :)