Fiddy people that don't understand science.

Read Bad Science by Ben Goldacre.

Read someone who understands the research, who is English and not in Big Pharma pockets

http://www.badscience.net/category/mmr/

All I know is the last time I got the flu is when I was sitting next to someone at a bar on leave from the military who explained to me she had just been vaccinated with a flu shot all the while she was about to pass out not from drinking but from her very apparent illness.

Of course yes. It's idiots that don't understand research or basic math.

My first child will be born in a few weeks. I'lll be making sure it has all vaccines available because I am not a total fucking retard.

Your sources are SO unbiased and credible.

Oh, hang on...

Finally you quote a REAL scientist who totally understands media bias and double blind peer reviewed research.

Oh, wait...

let's all cherry pick sources its fun

Bill Gates: Vaccine-autism link 'an absolute lie'
http://edition.cnn.com/2011/HEALTH/0....world.health/

http://www.vaccinationcouncil.org/about/

WHP, we get it - you really like reposting infantile jpgs with quotes superimposed on them.

It's exactly what's required; when people have been propagandized you need to use every angle possible to snap them out of it. :2 cents:

One angle you do NOT use is stating that your view could very well be wrong.

What the fuck has he got to do with it?

Bullshit like this is a killer - It's bad enough scientists have to fight a war against these diseases, but they have to fight a war with idiots like you as well...

He was a writer for fuck sake, no more qualified than you to share an opinion on the subject...

Thanks to vaccines we no longer have to worry about smallpox.....

The problem is in today's world, you can't always trust what the studies show, because so much of the research is paid for by companies whom have profits to protect. Seriously read some of the side effects from a random medication that is advertised during the 6:00 news. Half the side effects of the shit they try to push is worse than what you are treating.

Don't forget there was a time when scientist were saying cigarettes were healthy. Obviously paid scientist, but if you look at what goes on today most drug companies have university researchers on their payrolls. Most research in this country that isn't don't by the private sector is done by universities. Now the pharma companies have the university researchers in their pockets, whom can you trust?

I'm not against vaccinations but there are some that are very sketchy and might be linked to other problems and everything isn't always black & white.

Why would you even consider a Twitter entry from fucking Donald Trump of all the idiots on this earth would actually bring people to your side? :1orglaugh:1orglaugh Seriously, what is the thought process, it's posts like that that make me lean towards the WHPTroll theory.

This is a little off the topic, but your mentioning side effects reminded me of it. A while back there were a bunch of ads on TV for a drug that helped with social anxiety. The commercials showed this hot woman finally feeling good about herself, putting on a tight pair of shorts and a tank top and playing volleyball at a park with a bunch of people that could have been models.

As they list the side effects suicide, anal leakage, diarrhea and high blood pressure were among them...so it's great! You will feel like hanging out with people again! Sadly, you will shit yourself and leak from your ass while out with them then go home and shoot yourself.

It made me laugh, but when you think about it, should we really be putting drugs on the market where suicide is one of the side effects?

Trump has access to the best doctors money can buy :2 cents:

On another note I happen to be related to one of the top UK doctors, he privately recommends to avoid MMR

He's talking about numbers, the numbers are clear, more were dying from the vaccine. :2 cents:

:1orglaugh:1orglaugh:1orglaugh - Now I know you are full of shit...

DANGEROUS THINKING, and even more dangerous to spread this kind of bullshit. This kind of crap is for the weakest of minds who couldn't be bothered to a google search.

Then why do they refuse to use real controls in their studies? A saline solution would do the job just fine, why always compare with another vaccine?

Why do they refuse to test the safety of the full vaccine schedule? Only one vaccine at a time, that's not good science.

Why do they claim to care about Herd Immunity but then recommend Tylenol / Paracetamol after vaccination which is known to prevent vaccines from working?

Why do they only test vaccines on the healthiest people, then push them onto the sick?

Why do they allow themselves to profit from the autoimmune diseases and allergies which their vaccines cause? (conflict of interest)

Why do they only use voluntary reporting of adverse effects? That means only 5%-10% of vaccine damage being reported.

Why are there not many independent studies? We have to trust that Pharma are going to honestly test their own products when they have a huge conflict of interest that if they make us sick they profit? It's clear we have a fox guarding the henhouse.

Why do they not do long-term safety testing? They like testing for a few days, "Yep this one's safe!" they say, yet autoimmune diseases can start 2 months, 12 months or even 5 years down the line.

If Big Pharma were doing the best possible job then I would respect that, but they are not, the whole thing smells like a scam, I've seen people around me go down sick after vaccines, 1 is now dead after having her childhood ruined by her vaccine damage, 1 was resuscitated after vaccination and was banned from having vaccines again, another is on treatment that just about keeps him alive, costs a lot of $'s! I also know of families who've lost babies to Crib Death (caused by the DPT vaccine), I know of people with Chronic Asthma (caused by the DPT vaccine), I have a relative who went down with Diabetes Type 1 after the HiB vaccine.

Unfortunately Big Pharma are profit-hungry scammers and liars, so I'm going to interpret the madness that's going on with vaccines as intentional. These corporations are owned by the same people who profit from war i.e. killing people, so it shouldn't cause a moral issue for them to make money from sickening us.

In fact here's an example of Bayer knowingly (according to their own documents) spreading HIV via one of their products to increase sales of HIV drugs. This is what greed does to people, it's no different to when someone in our industry loses their own moral compass for the sake of chasing the $. :2 cents:

Actually, I am related to him, he lives in a huge footballer style house, and my pro-vaxx sister couldn't believe it as she wanted her kid to get MMR. Try speaking to your own doctor on the topic, you might be surprised :2 cents:

No Mark, we are the people who patiently researched this topic, we started out pro-vax like you, but we did our research over many years, we listened to the experts and learned to filter out Pharmaceutical propaganda. If you haven't got the patience to spend time reading through the studies and listening to the experts then you'll keep falling for the propaganda. :2 cents:

http://vaccinesafetyconference.com/videos.html

"we" as in you and the other voices in your head?

Have a search around here - You might be surprised at what I am, what my speciality was and what my degree is in...

Its all here on the forum - Educate yourself.....

Vaccines are a TOTAL Hoax. Go ahead and be sick with their schtick and die with the lie

The obvious conclusion is that vaccines containing thimerosal have nothing or at best extremely little to do with autism (and note that the MMR vaccine never contained thimerosal!). An obvious hypothesis explaining the continuing rise of cases diagnosed is that we are getting better at identifying it, and/or that the use of the term autism spectrum includes more symptoms that were previously not considered to be related.

http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/ba.../#.U0NbHVeGjJg

This anti-vaccine shit is so dangerous and for google scientists to generate irrational fear on social media platforms is completely irresponsible.

It's not just your kid. When your little shit doesn't get vaccinated he/she is a liability to the rest of society.

Drives me insane seeing this come up over and over, short trip but still.

Yea it's comical sometimes to listen to the side effects.

The increase in autism and autistic spectrum disorders in this part of Yokohama displays the same increase over time seen in other parts of the world. Here, though, the increase occurred even when the MMR vaccine was withdrawn. This destroys any possible causative link between use of the vaccine and autism.

Perhaps the most important features of the study were that it comprehensively covered a population, and that the population was served by a special service testing children for developmental; disorders and using standard methods over the whole period. The quality and validity of the study is superlative, and the size good.

Whatever causes autism, it is not the MMR vaccine.

http://www.medicine.ox.ac.uk/bandoli...nes/noMMR.html

:1orglaugh:1orglaugh:1orglaugh

The sad thing is despite all your education, training, and experience in the medical field WHP still truly believes he knows better than you. Like any religious fanatic, there's just no way you're getting through.

I was going to respond differently, but I started reading the entire thread and bookmarked comments. My daughter worked with autistic kids a lot when she was in high school and the first part of her college days. She worked at schools specifically for autistic kids. I spent some time there and we talked about them a lot.

I think it is pretty obvious that it is the change of diagnosis that has caused the increase. What I found interesting is that so many of these autistic kids came from wealthy families. I guess having the cash to pursue the diagnosis helps, which could account for why some third world country does not have as many autistics.

So, how do you decide which ones to give your kids? I am not talking about flu shots.


I am not sure what you are talking about, but sounds interesting.

:thumbsup
:thumbsup

:thumbsup

It's called herd immunity. It's probably the most basic concept behind vaccines. It's like entering a conversation about cars and not knowing what an engine is.

So all of those judges and lawyers are somehow experts on vaccines now? If I want the answer to the nuances of law, I ask them. If I want the answer to the nuances of micro biology, immunology, chemistry, etc., I'll ask a specialist in the respective field. I understand a lot of laymen are intimidated by the overwhelming amount of knowledge these people have then they cook up some cooky theory because "they", but I don't particularly care about some random person's insecurities. McDonald's got sued for their coffee being too hot - the lady, IIRC, won. Does this mean coffee is bad?

It's.... silly, man. Come on.

Sure, I understand that there's monied interests involved, but there's not some big conspiracy out there. The crap behind cigarettes came out because people got tired of all the bullshit(in all honesty, I know less than nothing about the history / details surrounding that particular topic).

Everyone who I ever see express anti-vax views fundamentally just don't understand how science, or academia for that matter, works. If a scientist, or particular lab, were to find a more effective way to do a flu vaccine(example) that has zero side effects for any person, and this could be demonstrated repeatedly through rigorous clinical trials, they'd change the world and get tons of notoriety from their peers and the world. On the other hand, when some quack gets paid by lawyers to do a fake study, then publishes it, then gets his licensing revoked and shunned by the academic community, conspiracy nut jobs jump up and down supporting him because "they" and "the man" and whatever other whacko idea they can think up.


There's being skeptical, and there's being paranoid.

Lol Donald Trump is one stupid asshole.


First, congratulations Damian! And next, good for you. Listen to doctors and paediatricians and get your new munchkin vaccinated and please don't listen to Vaccine deniers.

While injecting Mercury is always going to be a bad idea, it doesn't mean that it has to be the Mercury causing the Autism. The studies show that in actual fact Autism is not brain damage from Mercury/Aluminum, but an autoimmune disease which the vaccines have induced in the gut, this leads to the brain not being supplied with the correct nutrients to function correctly

Then we would expect to see many people with Autism in their 50's, but we do not. :2 cents:

Big Pharma recommend Tylenol / Paracetamol for post-vaccination fever, this is known to decrease the effectiveness of vaccines, so they clearly don't give a damn about so-called Herd Immunity, they just want to sell more of their products :2 cents:

http://www.thelancet.com/journals/la...208-3/abstract

"prophylactic administration of antipyretic drugs at the time of vaccination should not be routinely recommended since antibody responses to several vaccine antigens were reduced."

Cigarettes are the perfect example as to why we should have absolutely no faith in the FDA and CDC on vaccines. :2 cents:

So let's follow your logic through, so you're comparing these two:-

1. Child gets MMR vaccine

2. (Japan) Child gets two vaccines, given at the same time, one for Measles and one for Mumps.

And you're saying that because there is Autism in both scenarios then that means that MMR doesn't cause Autism. I hope you can see that this logic doesn't stand up to scrutiny as the scenario also exists that both can cause Autism. In both scenarios the child is given concurrent live infections.

If they really want to test this then we need to have a child who has no vaccines, but Big Pharma keep refusing to conduct that study.

There's a study from California which found that the children who regressed into Autism after MMR were the ones who'd been given Tylenol / Paracetamol post-vaccination. The ones who received Ibuprofen did not regress into Autism.

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/18445737

"Ibuprofen use after measles-mumps-rubella vaccination was not associated with autistic disorder. This preliminary study found that acetaminophen use after measles-mumps-rubella vaccination was associated with autistic disorder."


Think about it this way, MMR is a live virus vaccine, that means three concurrent infections for the immune system to deal with, then the next thing the immune system is suppressed with Tylenol / Paracetamol when it's desperately trying to fight three infections at the same time.

If we look at the peer-reviewed study below we see that autoimmune diseases are induced by over-stimulating the immune system. Autism is caused by an autoimmune disease in the gut which has been started up by MMR + Tylenol(Paracetamol).

http://www.plosone.org/article/info%...l.pone.0008382

"Systemic autoimmunity appears to be the inevitable consequence of over-stimulating the host's immune ‘system’ by repeated immunization with antigen, to the levels that surpass system's self-organized criticality."

There's the info for those who want it, that's the science, but I'm done now as I have work to do. :upsidedow

I agree with everything you said, but as a complete aside, and unrelated to anything in this thread, take a look at http://www.upworthy.com/ever-hear-ab...r-millions?g=4

very eye-opening :thumbsup (basically, it wasn't what the media portrayed as being someone sueing simply because the coffee was too hot - just a few minutes long but worth watching just to be aware of what actually happened)

i lick Pooing in Vaccines... :2 cents:

The 1st is info from a parental survey with 83 kids who were autistic and 80 who weren't. Hardly scientific. The second you point out has references no later than 2009 and was meant to measure the immune system of mice that had their immune system purposefully destroyed by adding high and repeated dosages of antigens.

Thats it. Nothing about equivalent doses of vaccines that have been given to billions of people and have saved millions if not billions of lives.

"Systemic autoimmunity appears to be the inevitable consequence of over-stimulating the host's immune ?system? by repeated immunization with antigen, to the levels that surpass system's self-organized criticality."

I'm sorry if your sister died or became autistic after an immunization. I really am. No one is claiming vaccines are perfect but for you to think that passing out vaccines for free for the most part is some sort of conspiracy or has any other purpose other than saving lives make you a fool.

So far the known side effects of vaccines are grey hair, wrinkley skin and impotence. Not to mention living past the age of 7 years old.

There are plenty of places that don't vaccinate. We see them pop up all the time when theres an outbreak or some fucking medical conspiracy/hippy/religious/third world/kings of leon concert group of people who don't vaccinate get together.

Unless you have devoted your life to saving others through medicine and vaccines and have double blind, placebo controlled, peer reviewed studies then what you say is not only ignorant but dangerous to the overall health of anyone within earshot or maybe even a cough from you.

I have a kid. I did the research hearing the same shit you did. I talked to multiple doctors and as far as I'm concerned parents should be locked up for not immunizing their kids.

Pull your head out of your ass. Really.

Hmm I wonder if they take into account the increase in medical care and the ability to treat diseases and illness that used to kill. Wonder if they took into account all the advances in modern medicine outside of vaccines...

And you'll notice those are recorded cases of, not of deaths. How many of those without vaccines would not have a single likely death due to our current day level of medical care...

Well if it was all about money then why vaccinate. Fill the hospital beds up. You people need to Google polio, smallpox, whooping cough, mumps etc...