I haven't had this much fun in a long time. I knew the area had a fairly large smattering of doomsday/conspiracy theory-loving/federal government haters, but this far surpasses all my hopes for entertainment. Pass the popcorn while I continue to read.

What I don't get is...where the hell are all the LIBERAL websites calling out the govt?

It's like liberals just "sold out" and surrendered.

In the 1960's the young people rose up and protested AGAINST the govt.
They didn't believe in what we were doing in Vietnam and didn't trust the govt. for shit.

Where are the Abbie Hoffman's of today?

These days it seems that the "progressive" movement is just rubber stamping with approval any and everything the govt. does.

And anybody that stands up to the govt. is "right wing" and a "gun nut" (not that a lot of them aren't...but I"m just saying why aren't the liberals in there standing up against the govt. as well?)

We need some REAL progressives and liberals to stand up like the liberal youth movement of the 1960's did.
They would be ashamed of this new breed of elitist, govt. loving liberal.

At least that's my opinion.

Even though I was born too late to be a "hippy"...I am 100% in tune with a lot of what they believed in as far as wanting to be free and not trusting the govt like some kind of sheep.

Who would have thought that someday conservative thinking people would be the ones that are rebelling against the government and having rallies. Crowds blocking heavy equipment and federal agents.

People these days that consider themselves progressive have no bearing, they just let the government do as they please and here we are.



The fact that we are here today to debate raising America's debt limit is a sign of leadership failure. America has a debt problem and a failure of leadership. Americans deserve better. I, therefore, intend to oppose the effort to increase America's debt.
Barack Obama

Typical politician. Thing is, I believed Obama when he said that.
I believed it because he was right!

And then he took office and threw out all that and went right to work acting like a typical career politician.

In my opinion he is Bush "on steroids" as far as cronyism and pushing for bigger more oppressive govt.

Idiots on here think I'm a republican time and time again, I'm not, I just don't like our president because of things like this.

you should let that left leaning teach you something!

like breathing from the nose!

he might actually learn to think for himself in the process..

Did you miss the whole Occupy movement. It wasn't perfect by far and much of the stuff they protested about was fairly ridiculous, however you can not deny that it wasn't largely a liberal movement and they were very much against what the govt was doing and the govt beat the shit out of them. All you rightward thinking types couldn't get over yourselves laughing and calling them names even supporting the cops whom beat them up.

This federal land-grabbing is happening all over the US.

http://www.ijreview.com/2014/04/1291...tire-property/


"Now that the federal government has decided to retreat from the heated battle over Cliven Bundy?s cattle, we can all breathe a sigh of relief, right? Maybe not.

A Colorado couple, Andy and Ceil Barrie, are battling Summit County commissioners who decided to seize their mountainside property via eminent domain. Why? To preserve the acreage and protect the wildlife.

[The] battle is a unique test of private property rights. Unlike in countless other cases, where local governments have used those powers to seize land to make way for a road or some economic development project, Colorado?s Summit County is using eminent domain to go after the Barries? land simply because officials want the open space.

Two years ago, Andy and Ceil Barrie bought two pieces of land: a house in an established subdivision, and another piece of property at a higher elevation, accessible by an old mining road.

The Barrie?s property is surrounded by 2.2 million acres of White River National Forest. It includes an old mining cabin, an outhouse and a shuttered gold mine.

The trouble began when the U.S. Forest Service got after the couple for using a utility vehicle to drive from their home to the cabin. All on their own private property, mind you.

Summit County then tried to buy the property ? but the Barries didn?t want to sell. That?s when the county played its trump card:

Unbeknownst to the Barries, the previous owner had remodeled the cabin without permits. So county commissioners voted to condemn the property for wiring and plumbing ? even though the cabin has none ? and filed for eminent domain.

As for the eventual outcome, the Barries aren?t optimistic:

?I understand that we are all trying to save these beautiful mountains and make them accessible to everyone, but you know that property has been sitting there since President Garfield signed our land patent, and we?re not doing anything bad there,? Ceil Barrie said.

Asked if recent mediation pointed to a way for the coupleto keep the land in the family name and avoid eminent domain, Andy Barrie responded flatly, ?No, they?re taking it.?

The Barries say they have no plans to develop their property or sell it.

So, should the government be able to confiscate private property because of what might happen ? vs. what is happening? You make the call."




Meanwhile the feds are set to take over another 5.2 MILLION acres this year alone.

Why? And where the hell did they come up with the power to do that?



.:helpme:disgust


.

gotta pay off the chinese somehow

You were Republican as they come up until 2 months ago you openly posted you were thinking about becoming a liberation and now suddenly you act as if you have never been anything else and much more you have to continually tell us all how you aren't Republican since last month anyway and are now some greater than thou free thinker. If it walks like a duck and quacks like a duck it's usually still a duck.

This is the problem with people like you, you think by calling yourself a title it makes you this or that, it's why guys like you always use the world "liberal" as an insult and ofcourse everyone that disagrees with you is a liberal.. You are far too tied up worrying about what to classify yourself and following along your teams agenda than thinking and acting for yourself. It doesn't matter what party you register for or don't, it won't change a thing for you come election time when you vote the exact same way you would have voted if the check box on your registration card was on Republican rather than Independent..

It's just a title on a card you get in the mail. It takes a open mindset to actually act on it..

I never thought they were protesting the govt. at all.

They were protesting Wall Street and "income inequality".

I'm talking about citizens standing up against the federal govt.
I did think the Occupy movement was interesting...at first. And then they started turning it into a circus. (I guess that probably happens no matter what).

Do I think that "Occupy" was on the same level as the college students at Kent State back in 1970? Hell no.

The federal govt. has become the biggest thing in the world. It's bigger than Wall Street. It's bigger than all the big corporations put together.

And as we learn something new seemingly every week (now the NSA and the "heartbleed" virus)...it's pretty apparent that the feds are pulling shady shit constantly.

Think about it a second...our federal govt. is spying on us, torturing people around the world, holding people prisoner with no trial for YEARS, killing people in other sovereign nations with drones...and that's just the stuff we know about!

If you changed "USA" to "Soviet Union during the 1970's" it would read the exact same way. :(

isn't a protest against wall street a protest against the federal government?

crockett, calm down. You're starting to do that "liberal" thing again. Which is hateful and vitriolic posts against other people here that don't think the same way you do.

You're attack on Vendzilla was uncalled for.

Why not just discuss what's going on instead of being so damn hate filled about everything?

That's the damndest irony.

The Democrat Party talking point is that Republicans are full of "hate". But every post by every liberal Democrat always includes the most hateful speech of all times.
The irony is inescapable.

Stay in the arena of ideas.

If you think that a rancher standing up to the federal govt. sending in what was basically an army is "bad". Then just say so.

If you think the federal govt. is justified in spying on you and that Pres. Obama is either totally ignorant of everything around him...or in CHARGE of things and you're cool with it, then just say so.

No need to go off and try to troll Vendzilla.

I'm more interested in what you think and have to say about what's going on.
I could give two shits about whether Vendzilla was a Republican and switched to Libertarian.

He has no power over anything.

The govt. does.

Not even close.

Name me one company that has the money and power and has ABUSED that power the way our Federal govt. has.

There are none. The latest NSA bullshit with this "Heartbleed" virus should open some people's eyes (as if everything else hasn't already).

Our govt. KILLS people. Our govt. SPIES on people. Our govt. has even conducted secret medical experiments on it's own citizens. It's disgusting.

Now this kind of thing is obviously bad and a abuse of power. It would be one thing if the family was trying to strip mine, clear cut the Forrest or what have you and the govt wouldn't let them trying to protect the land. However eminent domain has been abused for years and years so this kind of thing is nothing new.

In my opinion if the federal, state or local govt uses eminent domain to take someone's land, then they should have to pay fair market value. If they actually had to pay the fair market value you can sure as hell bet there would be a hell of a lot less abuse on both the state and local govt level. Might not change it on the federal level but at least some change would be good and it's mostly abused at state and local levels anyway.

Well, just like the rights' blogosphere being largely funded by the GOP / PACs, there's a lot that are funded by the national Democratic party in one way or the other on the center-left. By that I mean those on the right are going to just regurgitate talking points, while those on the Dem side will do the same(Daily Kos etc).

Though I agree, I'm pretty anti-government in many, many ways as a progressive(and there are a lot of us). I'm just not blindly anti-government - I'm more anti the dumb shit that's been going on the past few decades. I'm anti certain issues, instead of just blindly charging ahead with "GUBMNET BAD!". That's a lot of the progressive camp. We hate the GOP's traditionalist crap in regards to just about everything, we hate the revisionist history, etc. I also stray away from most of the left in that I'm 100% pro gun(banned from 5 liberal pages on Facebook for expressing that view, too).

In short, I'm pragmatic. Mostly all bills that go through Congress these days are just superficial bullshit to satisfy idiots on both sides. That doesn't mean I'm anti-government as a whole - that means I'm anti the idiots in power now(sans the very few who aren't massively dumb). That's also why I jump onto people who are just regurgitating some talking points under the guise of "free thought". It's not free thought if you're regurgitating what every far-right blog out there says verbatim.

Edit: When I say "you're", etc., I'm not directing it at you, Robbie. It's more of a general thing.

It wasn't just a protest about wall street it was also a protest about money in politics, that was the anti govt part. Overall it was a protest on big money's control of the govt which directly affected the average person. It was just as much about anti govt as anti 1% because with out the money in politics most of the things they protested about wouldn't of happened.

The media latched on to the 1% vs the 99% and tried to make it all about that, but OWS was also very much anti money in politics.

The man is a criminal plain and simple and I'm amazed at how far fetched and off the wall some of the replies in this thread are. The man was allowed to let his cattle graze on the land if he paid the fees, he hasn't paid the fees since 1993 yet continued to allow his cattle to graze. This isn't some crazy wild issue here, he's a pure and simple freeloader trying to get a free ride from the public because he doesn't want to pay the associated fees.

Seriously, this isn't rocket science. Man owns land next to .gov managed land, man owns cattle, man lets cattle graze on land, .gov allows this with payment of associated fee, man decides not to pay fees for 20 years, .gov steps in because he owes so much money.

Get a clue people.

For me there are many things going on here and I look at them separately.

- the guy is a freeloader. He hasn't paid his bill in 20 years, I get that, but if he never signed the contract back in 1993 then he hasn't been getting a bill

- BLM capriciously applying regulations

- BLM being overly agressive and overstepping their boundaries and common sense in handling this situation.

I'm glad BLM walked away from the continued escalation here and also that Bundy met with the sheriff and agreed to some terms. the big concern here for me was the overly aggressive pursuit by BLM on this, regardless of the guy being a freeloader.

You should look for that clue yourself, you're working on the idea that we don't think what he has done is illegal.

What we saying and it's completely escaped you is that this is about the BLM over stepping it's authority by sending in armed troops and the way it limited protest to only certain areas. It power to do that is against the constitution. Pushing a cancer patient to the ground for protesting is not right, or do you think that's ok?

We are debating the legalities, try to keep up with the conversation....

He knows I have him on ignore yet still tries to bate me. Definition of retarded.

I have him on ignore for that very reason, he is incapable of debate without the catchy phrases that all republicans are bad and that anything that Obama says is gold. I consider that a voice of a drone and Obama likes his drones.

BTW, I should get my stuff for the register of voters soon, I can post it.

Here's a bigger shocker, I'm going to helping Hillary Clinton in the future, kinda funny really! Wait and see!

I am currently on vacation and in the past few days I've drive through Nevada, Oregon, Idaho, and I am currently in Montana. The amount of open space out here is just stunning.

Hearing him on the radio here...he said he had paid his fees to the county the entire time for use of that land.

I have no "proof" of that. But that is what he said.

And I certainly wouldn't call anyone who works hard to make a living a "freeloader". His family have had their cattle grazing that land long before the U.S. govt. was involved.

Matter of fact, ALL cattle use to free-range graze. That's the way the cattle business worked historically.
It was only until the invention of barbed wire that cattle were ever fenced in.

Every cowboy movie you ever saw where they were doing a "round up" of cows was because they grazed on the open range.

To me...a "freeloader" is a lazy piece of shit who doesn't have a job and lives entirely off of the govt. from their housing to their food stamps.
Not a rancher who puts in more hours a day working hard than 99% of the people.

i guess we just need to get rid of governments, and put all the power into corporations.

:upsidedow

that will solve the power problem!

Now you're just being foolish. Nobody wants to get "rid of govt.'s"

But in our country there are checks and balances. The separate branches of govt., the power of state govt., and MOST importantly the Free Press and the people themselves (which is what FINALLY prevailed in this situation).

Are you saying that you don't think the govt. is TOO big. And that is "cool" for them to do all these shady and secretive things around the world to people?

I can't understand that line of thinking.

How about some common sense:
Get the federal govt. back under control and SERVING the people instead of RULING the people.
And keep corporations in check so that they are able to make profit, hire people, and make the world go around WITHOUT getting too big and powerful either.

Like most things there is a "sweet spot". The Federal govt. hit that spot about 50 years ago and then kept on growing.
At least the corporations get knocked down when they get too far out of control.

But the Federal Govt.? They make the LAW. And they've actually made laws that damn near make it impossible for citizens to reign them in.

Just think about it for a second without making any "witty" quips or exaggerating points.

The govt. is supposed to SERVE us. Not own us and run every aspect of our lives from cradle to grave.

So much bloviating here, jesus h christ.

So Bundy and the people won ?

According to this article
http://www.theblaze.com/stories/2014...unprecedented/

A county commissioner said that Bundy tried to pay the feds the grazing fees, but when they refused to let him, he paid the state instead.

They pulled his permits before he stopped paying the fees

This from the Elko county commissioner

the corporations with positive tax rates, and getting institutionalized in countries just invaded?

for example.. TEPCO, the japanese electric power company:

' Referring to that same early decision-making sequence, "Michael Friedlander, a former senior operator at a Pennsylvania power plant with General Electric reactors similar to the troubled ones in Japan, said the crucial question is whether Japanese officials followed G.E.?s emergency operating procedures'

the 'too big to fail' companies.. right?

Yep, they did win.

The govt. came in here and started a problem (like they always do in these kinds of situations) where there was none.

They just picked the wrong state to try it in. The original ranchers in Nevada aren't like some of the folks out East who just roll over when they are told to.

The govt. picked the wrong state, and the wrong group of people to try and bully around.

I think that this example (just like the uprising in Egypt, Libya, and Syria) disproves some people who say that citizens just can't stand up to the big bad govt.

To borrow something from Pres. Obama: "YES WE CAN!"

http://www.mynews4.com/news/local/st...14I5GhESg.cspx

'Reid tells News4's Samantha Boatman his take on the so-called cattle battle in southern Las Vegas. "Well, it's not over. We can't have an American people that violate the law and then just walk away from it. So it's not over," Reid said. '

American People who violate the law:

http://www.frontpagemag.com/2013/dgr...nor-is-jailed/

http://hotair.com/archives/2014/03/2...ter-for-gifts/

The term "Freeloader" in everyday speech refers to a "mooch" or a schnorrer. The technical term for such a person is a free rider.

A free rider, in economics, refers to someone who benefits from resources, goods, or services without paying for the cost of the benefit.


I read the transcript of a radio interview of him, in this interview he said he was WILLING to pay those fees to Clark County but not to the BLM.

That's the govt. feeding their cronies.

It the govt. did NOT do that, it wouldn't happen.

I know that you and some folks think it's 1900 and "robber barons" can buy and sell the govt.

The difference is...back then they were RICHER than the govt.

NOBODY is richer than the govt. now.

The federal govt. spends more money in one WEEK than ALL of Warren Buffet's entire fortune.

The tail isn't wagging the dog here. The U.S govt. is large and in charge. And never should have been.

When you show me a corporation doing the shit the U.S. govt is doing and has done...then I would say that corporation should be vilified.

Just let me know when a corporation gives poor black people gonorrhea on purpose (like our govt did), or drops an atomic bomb on two cities (not military targets) full of women and children (like our govt. did). Or sprays an entire country with Agent Orange and herbicides (like our govt. did). Or spys on every human being on Earth (like our govt. did)

I could just go on and on. The list is endless.

A freeloader in economics? Now we're just mincing words.

Kind of like when "nuclear weapons" was changed to "weapons of mass destruction" and that included damn near EVERY weapon so that Bush could justify invading Iraq when no nukes were found.

Dynamo..not everything SHOULD be "paid" for. One of those things throughout history was free range grazing of cattle.
I don't want to pay for the air I breath or the sunlight either.

Keep in mind...this "freeloader's" family has been free-range grazing those lands LONG before the U.S. govt tried to lay claim to it.
Did the federal govt. PAY for that land? Hell no.

It's just like trying to go to a national park...guess what? They CHARGE you for it.
And here I foolishly thought that my taxes paid for that shit.

robbie, you minced the word, not me. And you did so instead of acknowledging the point of my post, which wasn't his being a freeloader, in fact, I stated it didn't matter if he was a free loader or not, what mattered was the BLM.


And spare me the fatherly talk.

That sounds about right coming from Sen. Reid.

It's now all about showing that people are going to OBEY the govt. no matter what. :disgust

Nobody gave you a fatherly talk. I told you that you are mincing words and calling a hard working man a "freeloader".

That's what YOU did.

I'm pointing out that you ARE mincing words and trying to apply negative connotations to something that feeds our country (cattle ranchers).

The feds started this problem where none existed. And now they are trying to "solve" it by hurting the little guy.

It didn't work because from what I've learned about original born Nevadan's since I've lived here is that their state motto "Battle Born" is taken seriously.

This is pretty much my opinion on the matter as well. I think both sides were in the wrong in one way or another. What gets me is how can BLM say with a straight face this guy owes $1 million dollars for letting so e cattle graze grass in a feaild, yet then turn around and lease hundreds of acres of land to 6 big oil companies that are going to dril oil and gas and charge just over $1 million combined for all 6 of the leases. I'm sorry but fuck that.

They want to charge this guy a million bucks then they better charge the oil companies a few hundred million due to the significat damage done to the land.

Also it will be a interesting day if BLM ever starts throwing people off the land that live on it illegally. There is a lot of BLM land out there that has squatters on it and have lived there for years. It's everything from total bums, retired people and even ex military and there are thousands of them scattered across BLM land. When ever they decide to start kicking those people out, it's gonna be a lot of unrest.

Nice to see people win against the govt :thumbsup

I referred to 1 freeloader as a freeloader robbie, you can jack that up into something bigger like denigrating an entire group, but that's you just making shit up.

and btw, you're not even using the word mince right.