I believe mineistaken knows it without wikipedia.

So you confirm that terrorists stole mobile SAMs a few days before planes started getting shot down.

What's your point?

O'rly? You are an idiot if you think so. Sorry, but one of my best friend is pilot and I know how the system works here from the first hands.

Interesting...

It would be unlikely Ukrainian military aircraft would shoot down a plane they were escorting, unless it was an accident or unless they intentionally wanted to create an incident. At the same time you can wonder if rebel or Russian forces were shooting at Ukrainian military jets?

or, with history of these guys being bombed and shooting at fighter jets.. why were they escorting, over that area, knowing those systems were in place.

fubar.

I can't confirm anything. I just can point to their own statement where they say that Ukrainian army has left the base without any fight. So?

Do you need some special attention again?

I C U!!!!

from Guardian live blog

http://www.theguardian.com/world/201...s-ukraine-live

US government is doing things like this and you are looking from that perspective. Why would Putin need Malasyan people as excuse if Ukrainians already killed Russians on Russian soil (few days ago).

Both sides will blame other side of course. Maybe someone who know more about air defense systems can make a conclusion what was used on that height? What army have such weapons?

Really sorry for ordinary people that minded their own business. At the end, what idiot sent airplane above war zone? Was Ukrainian flight control responsible since it happened in Ukrainian airspace?

Reposting this since the thread is moving so fast that you may have missed it...

Seems there is a lot of photos, videos and so forth here....

http://nikitskij.livejournal.com/419...7477#t62697477



.

Nobody is going to own this so good luck finding out who did it. Deiz is posting stuff posted on social media before the plane was shot down that I assume he thinks is evidence that Russia is behind it but I can't read Russian.

especially after so many planes being taken down?

shady as fuck.

gruesome as fuck. don't click basically

https://twitter.com/MatevzNovak

Nobody knows that for sure yet. There is a lot of SAM's that can do it. However in that region the only SAM's that can do it are BUK's. Both sides of conflict (the Ukrainian army and the Ukrainian separatists) have it. The another possible way to shot down a plane flying at 10K meters is a jet fighter. Only the Ukrainian army has them there. So this is why we are talking about BUK's only (there are no C300 or C400 systems).

Certainly I take it from all the evil crap that the US government has done, but you should know as well as I do that all governments are capable of this kind of thing.

The reason why I think that this would work better as an excuse to invade Ukraine is that it would look like it was done in the interests of international security, and therefore play better internationally. Putin needs to answer the hard nationalists in Russia by looking as strong as possible, while at the same not incurring the economic wrath of the West... Which Russia cannot afford.





.

actually, I did, started commenting before I saw all pages of this thread.

And?

I don't understand what your point is here.

The Ukrainian military, the rebels, and the Russians ALL have missiles that can take out planes twice as high as commercial airlines typically fly. On top of this, both Ukraine and Russia have fighter jets.

A plane was shot down three days ago over Ukraine, and I don't believe it was the first time. Just doesn't seem to be too smart to be flying civilian planes in that area.

I disagree.... You know the US is watching that entire area carefully - last month the US tracked armored vehicles moving across Russia all the way into the hands of the rebels.

When Russia shot down the Korean airplane, the US had a recording of the fighter jet getting permission to shoot the plane down.

I think we'll know exactly what happened and we'll know soon.

Even the Ukrainian government doesn't blame Russia for that. They blame the Ukrainian separatists only. Once again: use a simple logic and don't be that stupid :2 cents:

Yes,I agree all governments are capable for this or similar kind of shit (depending on their technical abilities ).

I think he do not need excuse. No one will stop him and whatever he do will be (good or bad,right or wrong) defined as terrible (on western side) while other part of world will support or at least watch other way. So personally,I think that this was classic mistake. Terrible one, but someone mixed that flight with something else.

People died, sides will blame each other and what sounds logical to me is that Russians are watching everything what is going on there and they should precisely know where and when something was launched. Technology is there, it is near border and it is war.

That it was being escorted by fighter jets just puts a big 'ole target sign on it to me.

"The plane B 777 flight escorted by 2 ukraine fighters until minutes before disappear from the radar"

Edit 3: Source: "If the authorities of Kiev want to tell the truth, it is collected that 2 fighters flew very close minutes before, but it was not shot down by a figther"

EDIT 4: Source: "Just after the aircraft B 777 Malaysia Airlines dissapeared, Kiev military authority informed us of the downing, how did they know?" and "After 7 minutes the downing was notified, later our tower was taken with foreign staff who are still here" source

Shooting down plane at 30000 feet would require radar guided missiles. Rebels don't have such things.

Russia did not shot the Korean plane. You are confused everything already. Tremble yourself and start using your brain. That plane was hit by Soviet Union (not Russia) and that was done absolutely intentionally, because it (the plane) has violated the Soviet airspace and refused to obey the commands of Soviet Air Forces. Wouldn't your military do the same? Once again, it was not a mistake. Ah, what I'm trying to talk with you about... http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Iran_Air_Flight_655

CS whos that guys? i mean obviously some africans but what country?
just curious.

irak 8 char (isis)

somalia would be my guess

Somalia :)

Google says it's Somalia, which is the same as the modern Ukraine to me. The territory where one barbarians bashing others. I really don't understand why civilian flights are not forbidden over that mess...

no i was wrong, somalia:
http://www.haaretz.com/news/world/1.599021

very probable it's ISIS/ISIL or whatever, gotta remember it started as a mercenary thing.. libya etc

They still haven't found that Malaysian missing airplane.

I am using the most simple logic possible. It's very simple - The Ukrainian military, the Russian military, and the rebel forces ALL have the same missile. The missile suspected as being used here have a range of 50 KM, so it's possible that missiles could have been launched from Russia. It's painfully obvious that Russia has them and has them in the area; It's not a secret.

You are the one who isn't being logical.

This is not a logic. The simple logic must be used to answer on a simple question: why Russia would need to hit that plane?

The rest of the world sees little difference between the Soviet Union and Russia when it comes to military issues. The military of the Soviet Union took orders from Moscow, while the Russian military also takes orders from Moscow.

Rochard, man, we are talking about BUKs only because they are used by both Ukrainian army and Ukrainian separatists. If Russia wanted to hit it, it would use some better long range and more reliable SAM's like C300 or C400. Think about it.

This "rest of the world" is very stupid then. It's like to compare the modern West Germany with the Nazi one. Stupid people are everywhere. That's not a secret :2 cents:

This brings up an interesting point....

It's entirely possible that the rebels do have BUK missile launchers. They've taken over a area and what ever weapons they found in that area they might have control of now.

However, the BUK missile system is not that is simple to use. It's not "drive the truck (tank) to a location and push a button". There is tracking systems, command and control, fueling... It takes some training. It's possible that some of the Rebels are from the Ukrainian military, and might just have such training, but I find it highly unlikely that rebels were able to pull this off.

And if that is the case.... Then it means the Russian or the Ukrainians did this.

On that altitude ,plane of that size is probably not destroyed completely when it was hit, right? Which means many of those people were alive some for some time after it was hit?Any thoughts on this? sounds like hell.

oh jeez; well at least we know who the Russian government consults with


Did you stay at a Holiday Inn Express also?

Reports are coming in on who was on the plane http://news.yahoo.com/maylasian-plan...153426322.html

80 kids were on board

russians are fucking animals

:321GFY

https://twitter.com/spainbuca/status/489835522849009664

"All recorded on radar, for unbelievers, shot down by Kiev, here we know it & military air traffic control knows it too"

https://twitter.com/spainbuca/status/489841055001751552

"Days ago I said it here, military from Kiev wanted a uprinsing against Poroshenko, this can be a way, ordered by Tymoshenko"

:helpme

Your argument is completely invalid - Ukraine has the same exact missiles C300 and C400, so if it was the Ukrainians who did this why didn't they use better long range and more reliable SAM's like C300 or C400?

The truth is three groups in the area that could have shot them down, but you seem to think that Russia "could not possibility" be involved. Yet it seems painfully obvious that Russia is completely involved in multiple ways.

We don't know Russians are involved yet...

collateral damages are... unwanted...

who the fuck flies over a war zone? why not route the plane around to avoid this war area? crazy...

Doesn't seem too bright being as a plane was shot down just Monday....

Engine trouble,nothing to see here.
The plane was at 16000m (10,6km),you need some heavy shit to shoot AND hit that thing