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iSpyCams 02-26-2015 09:21 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by arock10 (Post 20404047)
not a very good comparison as there is actually competition in porn, not nearly as much in insurance

What cuts down on competition in insurance is heavy regulation. And with Obamacare, they accepted heavier regulation in exchange for compulsory policies for everyone.

The amount of viable sponsors in adult is lower all the time. The failure rate for new sites and startups has got to be around 99%, as is the % of abandoned or non maintained adult sites out there. Factor in acquisitions and personally I believe we really are seeing a smaller group of profitable adult companies that continues to shrink.

With heavy regulation on a federal level we might see even less. Hell, even with actual enforcement of existing regs like 2257 audits and FTC inquiries we might see a huge drop in the total # of US based sponsors.

Take away everyone who's flying under the radar or sitting offshore not giving a fuck or stealing content or no longer updating or owned by Manwin or focused on Dating and you might have a pretty small group left.

Robbie 02-26-2015 10:03 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by arock10 (Post 20404029)
But yes, I do believe we should be subsidizing the numerous people working two shitty jobs for 60+ hours a week barely making ends meet.

You lost me there.

I shouldn't be paying for ANYTHING for anyone else unless I CHOOSE to contribute to charity.

The problem isn't solved by FORCING people against their will to take the money that they earned for their family and pay for other people to go to the doctor.

The problem IS that the doctor visit, prescription meds, and hospital costs are many times HIGHER in the United States than anywhere else in the world.

I can literally walk across the border from San Diego to Tijuana and go to a pharmacy there and get my prescriptions for a fraction of the cost.

Any of you who have let the govt. scare you into driving 2 miles across the border into Tijuana would be shocked to see that it's full of clinics, hospitals, doctors, and pharmacies.
Most of the doctors live in San Diego (U.S. licensed doctors).

They are packed with patients. From elective surgery to life threatening surgery. If you are paying $10,000 in San Diego in the U.S. to have it done...drive 5 minutes south and you'll get the same exact thing done for $3,000. And you can get your prescription filled for a fraction of the cost.

The ripoff of the American people is the problem here.

arock10 02-26-2015 10:11 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Robbie (Post 20404098)
You lost me there.

I shouldn't be paying for ANYTHING for anyone else unless I CHOOSE to contribute to charity.

The problem isn't solved by FORCING people against their will to take the money that they earned for their family and pay for other people to go to the doctor.

The problem IS that the doctor visit, prescription meds, and hospital costs are many times HIGHER in the United States than anywhere else in the world.

I can literally walk across the border from San Diego to Tijuana and go to a pharmacy there and get my prescriptions for a fraction of the cost.

Any of you who have let the govt. scare you into driving 2 miles across the border into Tijuana would be shocked to see that it's full of clinics, hospitals, doctors, and pharmacies.
Most of the doctors live in San Diego (U.S. licensed doctors).

They are packed with patients. From elective surgery to life threatening surgery. If you are paying $10,000 in San Diego in the U.S. to have it done...drive 5 minutes south and you'll get the same exact thing done for $3,000. And you can get your prescription filled for a fraction of the cost.

The ripoff of the American people is the problem here.

yes american healthcare is way over priced, but that isn't an obamacare problem, that already existed. Also to a certain extent we subsidize the rest of the world healthcare costs by overcharging americans, just like we subsidize many countries militaries by overcharging americans for it.

"I shouldn't be paying for ANYTHING for anyone else unless I CHOOSE to contribute to charity." so everyone should have to opt in to roads and other infastructure, army, etc? Completely and totally unrealistic outlook that would more or less put us into a state of anarchy

Grapesoda 02-26-2015 12:13 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by arock10 (Post 20404108)
yes american healthcare is way over priced, but that isn't an obamacare problem, that already existed. Also to a certain extent we subsidize the rest of the world healthcare costs by overcharging americans, just like we subsidize many countries militaries by overcharging americans for it.

"I shouldn't be paying for ANYTHING for anyone else unless I CHOOSE to contribute to charity." so everyone should have to opt in to roads and other infastructure, army, etc? Completely and totally unrealistic outlook that would more or less put us into a state of anarchy

this is interesting: my health care was canceled due to the new 'affordable health care act' pretty sure I could find a clip of obama saying 'you can keep your policy' with very little effort.... the new policy cost more with less benefit....you say that has nothing to do with Obama care?

I think you have no concept of how a business operates.... first thing for you to realize is that mega corporations clear anywhere between 2.5%-4.3 % of the gross... CEO's have their time slotted in 15-30 min increments from early am until late night... CEO's probably sleep 6 hours a night if lucky... when you see a Walmart what do you think? I think about all the personal time and effort it took on someone's part to set that up, and continue to run the organization... I'm very sure this has never occurred to you...from the things you state here at GFY I don't imagine you as a small business owner....


for me I start working at 4am and stop about 7-8pm on slow days... I do all the booking, all the editing stills and video and all the shooting stills and video, plus all the maintenance on the gear.... my gross is $xxx,xxx.00 and my net is low $xxx.xxx.00 and getting lower due to the condom laws in LA... my gross has dropped 34% per year the last 2 years and my tax bracket is 53%... I thought is was 43.7% but it's over 50%.

health care cost are not a tax write off until I spend 35K then I get a small % of a deduction. raising my health ins and prescription cost come directly off my net.... say another 10K-12K per year... that affect my daughter and her collage, my daughter had to drop out of collage this year due to my finances... (BTW I'm very sure you don't care about me or my family) basically the government has taken another 10%-15% of my income but will not call it a tax...

and yet you tell me I need to worry about some guys with no marketable skills with 10 kids.... what about my family.... I'm working +/- 80 hours per week.... why do they have 10 kids? were they thinking fuck it, I'll have all the kids I want and rich Americans will pay for them?

see what I mean? your position seems to that the responsibility of the responsible is to cover the cost of the irresponsible... and this seems to be Obama's position as well... in the long term this is not a sustainable policy.... you see that don't you?

JJ Gold 02-26-2015 02:06 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jscott (Post 20403837)
American healthcare system is the most shocking and biggest joke to the entire rest of the world. It is ridiculed at dinner tables across the globe. Sad.

:1orglaugh:1orglaugh:1orglaugh

Most of the world consists of no count starving losers! Laugh it up motherfuckers!

JJ Gold 02-26-2015 02:13 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by arock10 (Post 20403916)
One day we will get single payer and it'll all make a lot more sense. This is just a stepping stone

Fuck you Commie! :321GFY

arock10 02-26-2015 02:20 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Grapesoda (Post 20404285)
this is interesting: my health care was canceled due to the new 'affordable health care act' pretty sure I could find a clip of obama saying 'you can keep your policy' with very little effort.... the new policy cost more with less benefit....you say that has nothing to do with Obama care?

I think you have no concept of how a business operates.... first thing for you to realize is that mega corporations clear anywhere between 2.5%-4.3 % of the gross... CEO's have their time slotted in 15-30 min increments from early am until late night... CEO's probably sleep 6 hours a night if lucky... when you see a Walmart what do you think? I think about all the personal time and effort it took on someone's part to set that up, and continue to run the organization... I'm very sure this has never occurred to you...from the things you state here at GFY I don't imagine you as a small business owner....


for me I start working at 4am and stop about 7-8pm on slow days... I do all the booking, all the editing stills and video and all the shooting stills and video, plus all the maintenance on the gear.... my gross is $xxx,xxx.00 and my net is low $xxx.xxx.00 and getting lower due to the condom laws in LA... my gross has dropped 34% per year the last 2 years and my tax bracket is 53%... I thought is was 43.7% but it's over 50%.

health care cost are not a tax write off until I spend 35K then I get a small % of a deduction. raising my health ins and prescription cost come directly off my net.... say another 10K-12K per year... that affect my daughter and her collage, my daughter had to drop out of collage this year due to my finances... (BTW I'm very sure you don't care about me or my family) basically the government has taken another 10%-15% of my income but will not call it a tax...

and yet you tell me I need to worry about some guys with no marketable skills with 10 kids.... what about my family.... I'm working +/- 80 hours per week.... why do they have 10 kids? were they thinking fuck it, I'll have all the kids I want and rich Americans will pay for them?

see what I mean? your position seems to that the responsibility of the responsible is to cover the cost of the irresponsible... and this seems to be Obama's position as well... in the long term this is not a sustainable policy.... you see that don't you?

All I see is lots of complaining and you making a whole hell of a lot of assumptions.

Also, have you noticed content production isn't exactly the place to be these days? Maybe its not Obama's fault things have gotten harder for you, but simply the shift in the industry you are in. Adult has gotten a lot more difficult for a lot of people with people leaving in droves. You know the saying, work smarter not harder...

The amount of people making six figures in adult today vs 5-10 years ago is vastly different

also "BTW I'm very sure you don't care about me or my family" is basically what you are saying about everyone else's family. Why I am for obamacare because it benefits the people that need it most... not me.

arock10 02-26-2015 02:21 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by JJ Gold (Post 20404426)
Fuck you Commie! :321GFY

damn didnt realize every other western nation and many other nations in the worlds were communist too

MiamiBoyz 02-26-2015 02:39 PM

My mother used to say:

"If you can't say something nice about a person then fuck it and just tell the truth about what a fucking asshole they really are!"

aka123 02-26-2015 02:44 PM

Thank you the "free" competition in the form of insurance companies and pharmaceutical companies. That is the kind of things USA is built on.. or something.

AmeliaG 02-26-2015 02:47 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Grapesoda (Post 20403967)
so... you're a fucking loser and me and Robbie are paying your health ins, lol? too bad you don't have any balls, you could just come over with a gun and steal all my stuff :2 cents:


American citizens fighting amongst themselves distracts from the main issues.

Americans are lambasting one another with "fuck you, you live in a nice house" and "fuck you, you're lazy" and "fuck you, explain your personal health problems in detail".

Meanwhile ACA and the collusion with the insurance industry and Big Pharma mean that we are being forced to subsidize incomprehensible wealthy businesses.

When doctors raise their rates to cover the new ACA administrative nightmare, people complain about the doctors giving healthcare and not the parasites putting an insurance markup on healthcare.

OneHungLo 02-26-2015 03:18 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jscott (Post 20403837)
American healthcare system is the most shocking and biggest joke to the entire rest of the world. It is ridiculed at dinner tables across the globe. Sad.

Ignorance is bliss I guess. Out of the top 20 hospitals in the world what flag do you see the most?

http://i.imgur.com/DCYYEpP.png

_Richard_ 02-26-2015 03:19 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by arock10 (Post 20403983)

in the words of the now covered college students... U MAAAAAD

:1orglaugh:1orglaugh

but if you guys cover these college students, how will you all pay for all that foreign aid given to, gasp, muslims!!?! (heavy heavy sarcasm here)

aka123 02-26-2015 03:25 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by OneHungLo (Post 20404481)
Ignorance is bliss I guess. Out of the top 20 hospitals in the world what flag do you see the most?

http://i.imgur.com/DCYYEpP.png

I don't deny you having fancy hospitals, especially as it is known that certain insured ones get over-treatment, at least test-wise.

But..

"The United States healthcare system is the most expensive in the world, but when it comes to health outcomes, it performs worse than 11 other similar industrialized nations, according to a new report released today by the Commonwealth Fund."

U.S. Healthcare: Most Expensive and Worst Performing - The Atlantic

Survey Ranks the U.S. Health Care System Lowest in Performance

U.S. Healthcare Ranked Dead Last Compared To 10 Other Countries - Forbes

Robbie 02-26-2015 03:30 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by arock10 (Post 20404108)
yes american healthcare is way over priced, but that isn't an obamacare problem, that already existed. Also to a certain extent we subsidize the rest of the world healthcare costs by overcharging americans, just like we subsidize many countries militaries by overcharging americans for it.

"I shouldn't be paying for ANYTHING for anyone else unless I CHOOSE to contribute to charity." so everyone should have to opt in to roads and other infastructure, army, etc? Completely and totally unrealistic outlook that would more or less put us into a state of anarchy

1. You are exactly right. But The President promised that this would bring the cost of healthcare DOWN.
And fuck no we don't subsidize the rest of the world for pharmaceuticals. That's a line of b.s. put out to justify price-gouging us here in the U.S.

2. How does taking my money to pay for other people's doctor visits have anything to do with roads and the military? That's a weird analogy you're stretching for there.
Since most people don't pay taxes anyway...I'm already paying for other people to use the roads and also paying for the overbloated military.
Using the logic you are proposing then I should also pay for the food, clothing, going to the movies, etc. for everyone else from my own work?

Fuck that. I wasn't put on this Earth to be a goddamned slave. I'm here to live MY life and make the lives of my children and family better. Not to take care of strangers...unless I CHOOSE to through charitable acts.

Sorry man, no offense...but I don't go for that sitting around the campfire singing kumbaya nonsense. People should have to make their own way in this world. And overcharging my family to make an insurance company even richer while playing the "Helping the poor" card as an excuse, just doesn't cut it with me.

OneHungLo 02-26-2015 03:34 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by aka123 (Post 20404489)
I don't deny you having fancy hospitals, especially as it is known that certain insured ones get over-treatment, at least test-wise.

But..

"Although the U.S. has the most expensive health care system in the world, the nation ranks lowest in terms of ?efficiency, equity and outcomes,? according to the report."

Survey Ranks the U.S. Health Care System Lowest in Performance

U.S. Healthcare Ranked Dead Last Compared To 10 Other Countries - Forbes

Even thought he US has the most cutting edge cardiovascular, cancer and neurological treatments in the world, the performance problem is with the hospitals, it's with the obesity problem.

kane 02-26-2015 03:57 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by pornguy (Post 20403963)
The answer to that is a LOT fucking easier than ObamaCare

When a Doctor graduates and is Now a licensed MD, he should have to do 15 hours per week community work for the next 3 to 5 years.

That means free.. He is welcome to have his practice or work in someone elses office but he should be forced to do the 15 hours per week. Correctly run by each state this gives free health care to anyone that does not have insurance.

I'm not sure how this would lower the cost of healthcare overall. First, it does nothing to address the rising cost of medication. Second, many doctors, when they graduate college have a massive amount of debt. If you force them to work for free just for the privilege of being a doctor that is time taken away from when they can work for pay. If it were me I would just charge more when I was able to in order to make up for the time I was forced to work for free.

Wendy-Etology 02-26-2015 04:06 PM

get it together Obamaniqua

Mutt 02-26-2015 04:16 PM

Blaming the cost of healthcare on Obama or any other president who may come along is unfair, if Obama had his way it would have been a single payer system and you'd have the Canadian system, for good and for bad. As long as you have the healthcare insurance companies as middle men and you allow the pharmaceutical companies to charge what they want you're going to have extremely high health costs compared to other countries.

Get rid of the for profit middle men, they are completely unnecessary, they are parasites, and put price controls on the drug companies. The price for the same medications Americans pay through the nose for are a fraction of the cost around the world - the American middle class is in effect subsidizing the rest of the world and that's not fair. The vast majority of research that produces these new drugs are also funded in the United States.

The drug companies are laughing their way to the bank - the more people who have health insurance means more people visiting doctors and doctors have become prescription writing zombies - you'll now have armies of these 20 somethings now able to go for regular doctor visits every time they have the sniffles, then they'll tell the doctor they have been feeling sad - doctor immediately writes out an expensive prescription for Paxil or whatever.

Mutt 02-26-2015 04:23 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Robbie (Post 20404496)
And fuck no we don't subsidize the rest of the world for pharmaceuticals. That's a line of b.s. put out to justify price-gouging us here in the U.S.

Yeah you do. The cost of developing new drugs is staggering. For every drug that gets approved and is useful there are hundreds of millions of dollars down the drain for drugs that never make it. If the drug companies couldn't charge Americans what they do they'd have to raise the prices in other countries or make a whole lot less in profits, some would get out of the drug business, which we don't really want, drugs extend/save lives and for most people make their lives better.

Grapesoda 02-26-2015 04:26 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by arock10 (Post 20404436)
All I see is lots of complaining and you making a whole hell of a lot of assumptions.

.

see the same thing with you :2 cents:

AmeliaG 02-26-2015 04:42 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mutt (Post 20404527)
Blaming the cost of healthcare on Obama or any other president who may come along is unfair, if Obama had his way it would have been a single payer system and you'd have the Canadian system, for good and for bad. As long as you have the healthcare insurance companies as middle men and you allow the pharmaceutical companies to charge what they want you're going to have extremely high health costs compared to other countries.

Get rid of the for profit middle men, they are completely unnecessary, they are parasites, and put price controls on the drug companies. The price for the same medications Americans pay through the nose for are a fraction of the cost around the world - the American middle class is in effect subsidizing the rest of the world and that's not fair. The vast majority of research that produces these new drugs are also funded in the United States.

The drug companies are laughing their way to the bank - the more people who have health insurance means more people visiting doctors and doctors have become prescription writing zombies - you'll now have armies of these 20 somethings now able to go for regular doctor visits every time they have the sniffles, then they'll tell the doctor they have been feeling sad - doctor immediately writes out an expensive prescription for Paxil or whatever.


I agree with you 100% on your thoughts on what would be the right way to go.

I am baffled that you think the president we elected wanted to do the right thing, but mysteriously failed. What makes you believe this? Romneycare is the same corporate money sucking plan.

Robbie 02-26-2015 06:19 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mutt (Post 20404540)
Yeah you do. The cost of developing new drugs is staggering. For every drug that gets approved and is useful there are hundreds of millions of dollars down the drain for drugs that never make it. If the drug companies couldn't charge Americans what they do they'd have to raise the prices in other countries or make a whole lot less in profits, some would get out of the drug business, which we don't really want, drugs extend/save lives and for most people make their lives better.

That is a load of propaganda put out by Big Pharma.
Why ONLY the consumer in the United States? Why not the consumers in wealthier countries.

Jesus...it's unreal that people will get fucked and then bend over and ask for more. :(

Robbie 02-26-2015 06:23 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by AmeliaG (Post 20404558)
I am baffled that you think the president we elected wanted to do the right thing, but mysteriously failed. What makes you believe this? Romneycare is the same corporate money sucking plan.

Bingo. He did exactly what he wanted. Full control of both houses when it was done and rushed through without even allowing the Congress to READ the damn thing!

Remember his promise? It was going to be televised on CSPAN so that the American people could watch the process of the bill being created.
Nope, didn't happen.

And then the FIRST thing the President did was bring in the heads of the big Pharmaceutical companies and cut a deal with them to ensure that they could continue to price gouge the American people...and that was done before the work even started on writing the AHCA!

It's amazing that some people seem more intent on defending a fucking politician than in seeing what was really done and the consequences it has had.

Mutt 02-26-2015 06:31 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Robbie (Post 20404642)
That is a load of propaganda put out by Big Pharma.
Why ONLY the consumer in the United States? Why not the consumers in wealthier countries.

Jesus...it's unreal that people will get fucked and then bend over and ask for more. :(

Why not consumers in wealthier countries? Because other wealthy countries nationalized their healthcare systems and put price controls on prescription drugs. The US doesn't so the drug companies set their prices higher in the US. Why do u think all those online Canadian drug sites popped up that Americans were buying from?

Mutt 02-26-2015 06:34 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by AmeliaG (Post 20404558)
I agree with you 100% on your thoughts on what would be the right way to go.

I am baffled that you think the president we elected wanted to do the right thing, but mysteriously failed. What makes you believe this? Romneycare is the same corporate money sucking plan.

Because Obama and every other politician no matter how liberal they are know that it will be a very long road to a single payer system in the United States - so he took what he could get and can go down in history as the president who pioneered universal health coverage for Americans.

Robbie 02-26-2015 06:36 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mutt (Post 20404652)
Why not consumers in wealthier countries? Because other wealthy countries nationalized their healthcare systems and put price controls on prescription drugs. The US doesn't so the drug companies set their prices higher in the US. Why do u think all those online Canadian drug sites popped up that Americans were buying from?

And why do you think that back in the early 1990's the U.S. border patrol started stopping cancer patients from the U.S. from crossing into Canada to buy their life-saving prescriptions from Canadian pharmacies?
Big Pharma Lobbyist's in Washington D.C. is why.

Can you imagine if you had a company that sold something and you managed to contribute enough money to enough Congressional candidates to get a free pass to price gouge without ANY regulation from the U.S.?
Especially if what you made was something that could mean life or death?

All I can tell you is...it amazes me the different perspectives I see (including yours). Money and power are what is happening with the prices we pay in the United States. Has nothing to do with "subsidizing" other countries.

The government is corrupt. And every big corporation in the world knows it.

Robbie 02-26-2015 06:40 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mutt (Post 20404655)
Because Obama and every other politician no matter how liberal they are know that it will be a very long road to a single payer system in the United States - so he took what he could get and can go down in history as the president who pioneered universal health coverage for Americans.

LOL! He had TOTAL power. There was no "long road". If the Democrats really wanted it they could have just done it. (just like they did anyway with "obamacare")

Come on man...what they did was throw a scare tactic at the Big Insurance Corporations. Because with "Single Pay" (which should mean I reach in my pocket and pay my own goddamn bill...but has become the term for Govt. healthcare) the insurance companies would have went out of business overnight.

Multi-billion dollar companies based on the health insurance gamble would have disappeared.

Can you imagine the frantic deal-making and money changing hands that went on to stop that from taking place?

I'm not trying to be anti-Obama, but wow...to think he couldn't have done whatever he wanted to (because he DID against all Republican opposition) is just crazy.

AmeliaG 02-27-2015 05:20 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mutt (Post 20404655)
Because Obama and every other politician no matter how liberal they are know that it will be a very long road to a single payer system in the United States - so he took what he could get and can go down in history as the president who pioneered universal health coverage for Americans.


What legislative votes would he have lost if he had tried to put single-payer through?

Corporate welfare for the insurance industry is not a stepping stone in the direction of universal healthcare.

epitome 02-27-2015 03:08 PM

How about actually educating yourself besides blaming Obama?

Another problem that needs to be reformed (and not a result of Obamacare) is the shady ways pharmaceutical companies are able to extend their patents.

But hey, blame Obama (whose legislation was passed by Congress) rather than the real problem. The pharmaceutical companies who are consolidating and agreeing to secret exclusivity agreements for generic production are laughing all the way to the bank.

Robbie 02-27-2015 03:37 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by AmeliaG (Post 20405001)
What legislative votes would he have lost if he had tried to put single-payer through?

Answer: NONE

Every Democrat voted for it. Every Republican voted against it.

That entire argument is just another bullshit excuse for apologist's who are desperately looking for some reason that the whole thing is a disaster...even though most rational people knew it before it was forced on us.

ezgirl 02-27-2015 03:42 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by onwebcam (Post 20403800)
ANYONE who has any brain cells whatsoever knows that if you have insurance the price is marked up at least 400% so you still end up paying nearly the same price as a non insured and/or cash person. My girlfirend didn't have insurance last year and she had to make a ER visit. As we were exiting and had to stop by the financial office the lady laid a form out in front of her and said "sign this since you don't have insurance you only pay 20%." "Dental discount" cards are a great example. I canceled my insurance after I figured out I'd pay less with a discount dental card and cash than with my "insurance." Obamacare is and has always been a huge windfall for the insurance companies (the people who actually wrote the bill) nothing more nothing less.

What is a "dental discount card"? Where/how do you get them?

arock10 02-27-2015 03:50 PM

the problem is citizens united/campaign finance ridiculousness

Mutt 02-27-2015 04:04 PM

You're naive or disingenuous Robbie, even with the Democrats in control of Congress and the White House there was no way Obama and the Democrats would in one fell swoop dismantle the healthcare system and completely socialize/nationalize it. You know how powerful and rich the lobbies are who control the 2 parties, both of them get paid by the same groups - the political fallout would be humongous. I'm not even sure how these countries like Canada, the UK, France etc got to universal healthcare, a bit before my time, it couldn't have been overnight. The US system is extremely complex, many different interests, so even with Democrats being for universal healthcare they know it's going to be a gradual process.

I am in favor of a dual system, I believe every person deserves access to good healthcare, paid for by everybody who pays taxes no different than paying for schools and roads - the upper middle class and rich can pay for the best of the best healthcare/hospitals/doctors. In Canada, incredibly that's not allowed, everybody rich and poor gets the same treatment and services. If you want the best medicine can offer you have to leave the country, many of the rich do rather than wait their turn in long waiting lines. People are deluded by the government into believing that their healthcare isn't rationed, it absolutely is. In 95% of cases. and I'm just pulling that number out of my ass, the treatment they receive is very good, it's the same treatment they'd be recommended if they went to the Mayo Clinic for an opinion. The wait times, the overcrowding, suck but people just accept it.

The province of British Columbia, containing the city of Vancouver, a city the world thinks of as wealthy and world class, has TWO PET scanners to cover the entire large province - PET scanners are not that new, they are very expensive and very helpful in diagnosing and treating serious diseases like cancer. I will guarantee you that even the poorest US states have more than 2 PET scanners.

Mutt 02-27-2015 04:06 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Robbie (Post 20405572)
Answer: NONE

Every Democrat voted for it. Every Republican voted against it.

There was a bill in Congress that was for a single payer system?

AmeliaG 02-27-2015 05:38 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mutt (Post 20405600)
There was a bill in Congress that was for a single payer system?

No. There wasn't. But there should have been.

So please answer my question.

What makes you think the president we elected wanted to do the right thing?

What legislative votes would he have lost if he had tried to put single-payer through?

Corporate welfare for the insurance industry is not a stepping stone in the direction of universal healthcare.

Barry-xlovecam 02-27-2015 05:44 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Robbie (Post 20404642)
That is a load of propaganda put out by Big Pharma.
Why ONLY the consumer in the United States? Why not the consumers in wealthier countries.

Jesus...it's unreal that people will get fucked and then bend over and ask for more. :(

Robbie, because there are price controls in countries with nationalized healthcare
Quote:

Report: Pharmaceutical Price Controls in OECD Countries
www.ita.doc.gov/drugpricingstudy
This site may be hacked.
1 Introduction 1. 2 Drug Price Regulations in Selected OECD Countries—An Overview of the Issues 3 ..... indicative of price differences for innovative drugs;.
I used wget and the pdf seemed fine .. be warned if using windows
http://www.ita.doc.gov/drugpricingstudy
"Pharmaceutical Price
Controls in OECD Countries
Implications for U.S. Consumers,
Pricing, Research and Development,
and Innovation"
The International Trade Administration (ITA)
U.S. Department of Commerce
125 pages :helpme

Other countries regulation is obtaining pharmaceuticals at below fair-market pricing (it is alleged) and USA pharmaceutical buyers (insurance and retail) are getting ripped off for the difference (it is alleged).

So, I am not sure just who is fucking who -- but I am sure that USA consumers are getting fucked over.


21 graphs that show America’s health-care prices are ludicrous - The Washington Post

tony286 02-27-2015 05:46 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by AmeliaG (Post 20405663)
No. There wasn't. But there should have been.

So please answer my question.

What makes you think the president we elected wanted to do the right thing?

What legislative votes would he have lost if he had tried to put single-payer through?

Corporate welfare for the insurance industry is not a stepping stone in the direction of universal healthcare.

gov isnt black and white. The president isnt king, they got thru what they could get thru. Governing isnt ez as pundits and useless congressman state, everything done has a ripple effect. And the way our gov is setup, one senator can locked everything up.

Robbie 02-27-2015 06:09 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mutt (Post 20405600)
There was a bill in Congress that was for a single payer system?

No, I was referring to the Affordable Health Care Act that was passed. To think that the President and the Democrats just couldn't pass "single pay" because of the Republicans is incorrect.

They could have passed it as easily as they did the current disaster. They CHOSE not too.
And they did that for the reasons you stated in your other post: Rich lobbyists from the big insurance corporations throwing money to make sure that didn't happen.

Robbie 02-27-2015 06:12 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Barry-xlovecam (Post 20405671)
Robbie, because there are price controls in countries with nationalized healthcare

That sounds nice. A great excuse to price gouge Americans like they always have.

A "fair market price" is what the market will bear. But since the United States Federal Govt. makes SURE that it's very difficult for the average person to buy their prescriptions in other countries...that kind of changes things doesn't it?

There is a reason that "medical tourism" has gotten so big.


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