The reason that it would cost so much is that Unions, taxes, laws, regulations, etc. in the U.S. all drive up the cost of production.

What Trump is saying is that companies would be given incentive to bring those jobs back. It's already happening in several states with car companies building factories (anywhere but Detroit) without unions and with the states giving them great tax breaks.

Trump is also saying that if they still don't bring those jobs back, he will place tariffs on their products coming into the U.S.

It's a great bargaining chip that we have that has been unused for decades. The U.S. market is coveted. And we haven't had anyone in office that has used that position of power to our advantage.

Unless you are supporting a guy with an "R" in his candidacy.

Now if it's an angry Bernie Sanders and his angry followers...then of course it's just fine!

Liberals can be angry at govt. fucking us over. Minorities can be angry and burn down cities and loot them. That's all good too.

You see those people are not really "angry". They are just good citizens.

But if you are white and not a Democrat? And you don't burn down a city? Or stage huge protests?
Then you are just another "angry white Republican" and should be an object of ridicule.

It will still lead to higher prices in the shops.

Imagine China producing cars in big numbers.

US $12,560 - 15,420 how much for a comparable one US made?

2015 LAND CRUISER $80,155

OK maybe the Toyota is better.

Unions, taxes, aren't the problem. Laws to make sure the plant doesn't ruin the environment, dangerous to work in, produce safe cars, land rental, building and running car plants, and labour costs so people can afford to eat and live are the main problems.

Comes down to whether the consumer will buy a $15,420 car or a $80,000 one.

The best way is a 10% or more tax at the dockside on goods imported from countries that have a huge gap between what they sell to the US and what they buy. Force them to buy more from the US.

if you want people on american soil work for the money that is paid in China, you have to bring back slavery

That is not required. I've seen many businessmen describe exactly what they need to compete.

The U.S. can be very, very competitive. BUT...the govt. (both Federal, State, and local) needs to make it so.

As I've said before...if what you are thinking is true, then WHY did BMW build it's factory in South Carolina? Why did Volkswagen build a plant in Chattanooga Tennessee?
Surely using your logic they could have built those in China much, much cheaper right?

Wrong.

Every manufacturer wants to build the products they sell in North America in the U.S.
And when the state and local govt.'s create that environment that allows them to be profitable...that's exactly what they do.

That is what Trump is suggesting. You and I can discuss back and forth all day...but in the end the facts are that "yes" those jobs can indeed come back to the U.S.
It's already happened in the car industry...just not in overly regulated, overly taxed, overly unionized Detroit.

Apple could indeed build iphones here. Just not in California. (I don't know how anyone stays in business there...)

Because the car industry doesn't have to compete with China. In Europe they're opening car factories in Eastern Europe because of all the costs.

I agree with you that something has to be done to balance trade with all the Third World, not just China. The problem will be consumers have to pay a higher price.

Factory wages.
China $8,000 CNY/Year
United States $40,318 annually USD/Year

Add to that the running costs, healthcare, insurance, legal, etc.

Something has to be done. The EU goes to the Third World begging them to buy more of our goods. At the moment the EU's car manufacturers do well in the Third World. If they start to build and export a competitive level to ours cars. The same will happen to the car industry as happened to the motor cycle industry.

We need to start looking at what we can produce that they have to buy, and not let them take more of our industries like they have done.

Bah!


Unfortunately I have to say you're right, or at least, right to be concerned. There is a lot of mistrust around Hillary now.

Maybe Bernie will win?

I used to like this guy. :error

There is a diffrence between Germany and the U.S. The govt of Germany wanted to make their country strong and in doing so they focused on making their people strong.. Ie good jobs, social health care ect.. They worried about making themselves strong from the inside out.. But they are really not strong on the world playing field.

The U.S. Govt on the other hand dosn't care about making this country strong from within, because they are more interested in projecting power abroad. It doesn't matter so much what people here make or if they have Heath care.. Th govt makes it's money by projecting power in the form of military and consumerism. Taking care of the people in your own country isn't needed when the only thing that matters is world wide economic power and the ability to secure that power by military force..

No Robbie you are wrong.. As I said before in another topic.. Business deals are much easier to do than running a govt.

In business everyone is worried about a single goal, making money.. In politics you have 2 sides and they don't have a singular goal, other than to win and make the other guy lose.

:1orglaugh:1orglaugh:1orglaugh:1orglaugh

crockett, leave the deal opinions to those who've actually done deals, not just pick up mexicans at home depot and make a deal for lunch to mow a lawn.

and politics is not a zero sum game, you only see things in a confrontational view, red v blue contest.

Crockett, I think you're wrong on that.

From everything I've seen about politics as practiced by lifetime/career bureaucrats...politics is ALSO about a single goal: Making your cronies back home money.

That's it. End of story.

And the only reason there are "2 sides" is because the Republican has one company that they are trying to funnel money to and the Democrat has another company that they are trying to funnel money to.

Trump would easily swim in those waters. He's a professional. These bureaucrats are all amateurs who would never last a minute in the real world of negotiations.

To an extent money is also a common issues in politics but you are forgetting that both parties have diffrent thoughts on key items which make or break big business.

Example Democrats often want to cut military spending, while Republicans often want to expand it. The diffrence is billions of dollars in military contracts. There are countless differences like this between both parties where one side is for expanding g something while the other side is against it. Each of these things has millions and millions of dollars to be won or lost.

So it's not quite as easy as business where two parties sitting at the table are only there so they can both win.. In politics there is always a loser sitting at the table..

Also there is the pure party politics which goes well beyond money.. Example, look at what the Republicans did during the budget talks.. They cost both the govt and big business millions with their sequester and shut downs.. Just because they wanted to say no to Obama and we're trying to kill ACA.

Why do you think Democrats won't now return the very same favor if a Republican is elected? That is the can of warms Republicans opened up by turning the budget into party politics against ACA..

Added to this even the Republican Party is splintered and the GOP can not really control their own. The infighting which goes on inside the GOP it's self now days is almost as bad as Republicans and Democrats fighting with each other. trump will further split up the GOP because he's already hated on his own side.

Honestly I really wish he would have come out as a middle man, I think his pandering to the far right is what has already lost him the election. He had the potential to bring both sides together but instead he opted to play the role of the great divider..

crockett thinks business deals are 2 party affairs and completely does NOT understand the political process.

Political compromise is difficult in American democracy even though no one doubts it is necessary. (except for crockett)

It is difficult for many reasons, including the recent increase in political polarization that has been widely criticized. We argue that the resistance to compromise cannot be fully appreciated without understanding its source in the democratic process itself, especially as conducted in the U.S.

The incursion of campaigning into governing in American democracy--the so called "permanent campaign"--encourages political attitudes and arguments that make compromise more difficult. These constitute what we call the uncompromising mindset, characterized by politicians' standing on principle and mistrusting opponents. This mindset is conducive to campaigning, but not to governing, because it stands in the way of necessary change and thereby biases the democratic process in favor of the status quo. The uncompromising mindset can be kept in check by an opposite cluster of attitudes and arguments--the compromising mindset--that inclines politicians to adapt their principles and respect their opponents.

This mindset is more appropriate for governing, because it enables politicians more readily to recognize and act on opportunities for desirable compromise. We explore the dynamics of these mindsets by examining the processes that led to the compromises on tax reform in 1986 and health care reform in 2010.

The Mindsets of Political Compromise : Office of the President : University of Pennsylvania


zero sum politics leads to gridlock. weird i have to explain that to the guy who thumps his chest as the de facto gfy political guru

crockett, I think you're missing the fact that when it comes to military spending, that it's the Republican funneling money to a company that is part of the industrial military complex.

As for pure politics...yes, that does come into play. But if you had a President who exposed the bullshit for what it is. And flat out had the balls to say in front of the whole country:
"Hey, I'm making a deal that will give money to BOTH companies you're really representing" Then I think that would be a game-changer.

So far Trump has been exposing it out in public...as it should be.

I do think that it won't matter what the fake Democrats or fake Republicans are doing. They wouldn't be a match for Trump in deal making or negotiating.

One thing IS for certain: Neither Bush or Hillary would be able to do anything any differently than the same old "business as usual" that has screwed the country.

With Trump, that is not so certain. Trump might actually be in the unique position to CHANGE things.

But that's just you and me theorizing on a message board. :)

You are missing the point I'm talking about.. trump has no friends in Congress so he's not gonna get much done short of issuing executive actions.. Kinda like what Obama has been forced to do, due to Republicans in Congress being obstructionist. You guys moan endlessly every time Obama issues a EA, so will you do the same if it's Trump having to do it for the same reason Obama does?

Democrats will turn around and do the same thing as will many of the Republicans which do not like Trump. The president has his hands tied behind his back if Congress decides to fight him by obstruction.

crockett, Trump doesn't NEED "friends" in Congress. "Friends in Congress" translates into people with the same interests in funneling money.

Trump understands how to negotiate. As I said, neither you or I have ever been on the level that he is at.
And quite frankly neither have the bureaucrats currently running the country into the ground.

if and when Trump gets elected the message behind that victory is the American people are fed up with politics as usual. Those congresspeople who don't get that and continue the congressional deadlock will find themselves voted out.

The longer he stays in the race, the more he's going to fuck shit up for the republican party. The Democrats at that point all they'll have to do is sit back and choose their next president.

And that's a good thing. Not because a fucking Democrat should be elected...but because the way things are IS fucked up.

The Democrats need their own version of Trump as well.

There is no way that you can possibly think that for things to continue the way they have been for the last 7 or 8 decades in Washington D.C. is going to be a good thing. :(

you are neglecting a possible outcome- that Trump wins.

:thumbsup:thumbsup:thumbsup



Does not, could not, ever exist.

Do I really have to translate what "friends in Congress" means? He has no one that will work with him.. is that simple enough?

You can BS yourself about his money and that he's the next Jesus Christ, but he wI'll not and can not get anything done with out support in Congress. He will be left with only the option being EA..

You are confusing him being able to negotiate vs people unwilling to negotiate with him. The exact same situation Obama faces right now.

I'm not confusing anything. Trump has no "friends" in the business world either.

The world works a lot differently than you might think.

Congress isn't going to work with a President because they are "friends". They will work with him because he can cut them a deal that allows them to keep their cronies happy and still get shit done.

Trump is an expert at that.

You can think I'm wrong all day long. (ooh, I rhymed!)
But the reality is that Trump would get shit done. Just like he didn't give a fuck if the RNC wanted him in the race or not. Didn't give a fuck what the media said. Didn't give a fuck what those handful of companies who tried to be "politically correct" and dropped him (and now look weak). And he didn't give a fuck what Fox News tried to do to him.

They all bent to his will in the end because he knows how to get shit done.

Read and learn:
Trump: The Art of the Deal: Donald J. Trump, Tony Schwartz: 9780345479174: Amazon.com: Books

Dont give a fuck = enemies which will obstruct just for tje sake of doing it.

:thumbsup

Mark subconsciously knows that Trump is the real deal (as he quoted), but he needs to save his face and stick to dems. Imagine how much of a failure he would feel if he admitted that he was wrong (in supporting leftards) all along for years :)
So even if he smartened up he is too deep in the other side that his pride won't let him admit it to public.
Unless drunk, of course :thumbsup:1orglaugh

Mr. Prince, come to the bright side.

No, it means enemies that will TRY to obstruct.
A skillful negotiator knows how to engage those people.

Contrast what Pres. Obama has done. Cut himself off from his opposition. Doesn't have regular meetings or even phone calls with them.
The exact opposite of what a great negotiator like Bill Clinton did.

Clinton was freakin' IMPEACHED by the Republican Congress, and STILL got shit done with them!

Trump is better than Clinton ever could be as a negotiator.

But again, this is just you and me on a porn message board saying what we THINK could happen. Doesn't mean much. But it's a nice way to pass the time between tasks here I my office. :)

Trump is pretty much a moderate. That's one of the things the RNC, the other candidates, and Fox News all tried (and failed) to use against him.

He could just as easily be running on the Democrat ticket as the Republican one.

And I like it. The 2 parties are bullshit all the way.

I was talking about Mr. Prince here :)

And I agree that he could be running on both parties. He is moderate, yet crocket tries to paint him as a nutter :)

Tell you what. If Trump wins, I will be the first one to congratulate all republicans, for getting exactly what they deserve.

Is Trump the real deal? What does that mean exactly? Does he say what he thinks? Yes. Does he mean what he says? Definitely. Can he win? Yeah, maybe.. ! But can he be a good president? No. Will he do what is right for your country and the world? No. Will he be able to do anything? Unlikely, unless he smartens up.

Trump is a big stupid blowhard that is pandering to the lowest common denominator, and to no one's surprise, it is working. Will it win him the election? Maybe. Will it be good for the USA? Aww Hell No.

I'm also hoping and thinking that enough Americans will realize this too. If Bernie Sanders keeps up the pace, he could become the nominee. Hillary could wipe the floor with Trump's toupee, but Bernie can do so much worse to trump. It will be painful to watch. Painful, and hilarious.

Then again, it looks like Joe Biden is about to get into the race, and rumour has it that he may ask Elizabeth Warren to be his running mate. If she accepts, then WOW, your upcoming 2016 race will have just become seriously, seriously interesting.

********** would be well suited to first learn the demographics of who is up for Trump- college grads, women, millennials.

Why on earth would Elizabeth Warren hitch a ride on biden's ticket? She won't.

Trump's education far exceeds any that you could possibly have. He's not stupid by any stretch of the imagination. That is just the picture that the Republican Party is trying to paint of him.

And what you call "blowhard" I call not being a pussy and not being afraid to say the truth.

Trump is the ultimate "speak truth to power".

And if he were running as a Democrat I strongly suspect you would be singing his praises.

And if the cronies make more money importing from the Third World, the cronies win.

I support you on we have to get out of the trap of relying on foreign countries for cheap goods. Will you buy a bike at three times the price because it was made in the US?

And in those two sides are lots of cronies funding the politicians. America can't get sensible gun laws passed, why is that?

As you say it's negotiations, the art of give and take.

What stopped Obama getting the things he wanted passed. What stops decent gun laws. What brought America to the fiscal cliff?

President Obama: Republicans blocked 500 bills - Jonathan Topaz - POLITICO.com

One of the reasons the GOP claim for this is Obama's refusal to negotiate with Republicans.

Reminder: Obama says "I will not negotiate" with... | Poor Richard's News

Trump has rarely faced a situation where someone refused to talk or bend to his will. Without him having the option of walking away and being able to take that option. Government can't operate like that.

What will he do if the Iranians walk out of Nuclear talks over their refusal to release prisoners?

Nuclear Iran v 4 US people in Iran prisons?

Trump didn't go from $50 million net worth to $10 billion without facing PLENTY of people unwilling to bend. You think they just hand trump billions with a smile? Here you go, have our moneys.

There's no doubt that he's a genius when it comes to business and real estate, but comparing smarts to other people especially in the context of this conversation is irrelevant. You for example, know a lot more about the porn industry than Trump ever would. So in that respect, it's completely fair to say that you are smarter than Trump in this regard.

- Trump defended Huckabee?s ?oven? Holocaust comparison. Pretty stupid.

- Like James infofe, he's a climate change denier, calling it "Bullshit" and thinks it was created by the Chinese. Very, very stupid.

- And of course you know He also called Mexicans Drug Runners and Rapists. Extremely stupid, and of course, prejudiced.

And on, and on and on...


I disagree - he's doing this all by himself.

I call him a blowhard because he likes to talk about himself. "I'm Rich, Mexicans Love me, I'm Rich, I'm Rich". While I do appreciate his straight-talk sometimes, and laugh when he dismisses political correct terms for the normal terms you and I might use, I just don't think its the right talk for someone who could be president one day.

That's the problem - he doesn't speak the truth. If you want a real honest person, Bill Nye should be president. The world needs more science fact in its policies and principals and a lot less bullshit.


An ass is an ass, regardless of political affiliation.

Peace.

That's a bingo.

just what USA needs, a child comedian using cartoons to negotiate nuclear deals with iran, standing up to Putin & ISIS while negotiating a deadlocked congress and sorting out the economy.

http://static02.mediaite.com/themary...5/bill-nye.jpg