Holly Lez and Pseudonymous reported for provoking an intelligent discussion on gfy

GatorRaved doesn't understand how this discussion about dead print media is intelligent.I mean, people are talking about a print media brand trying to survive and become relevant again but is that an intelligent discussion worth anyone's time? :thumbsup

Cross-promo, themed tours, redirecting dead affiliate links to still be able to get joins and credit affiliates. Feel very welcome to hit me up directly, as always :)

There is nothing original about the content.

Fake-titted trashy girls with nasty tats, presented in a tube layout using small thumbs.

I closed the site in 10 seconds, because there are others like x-art, babes, nubiles, wowgirls, which at first sight look 1000x better and offer HQ exclusive content with top ladies.

couple of hustler female models., and 1 month trip to any island

Once everyone else can do it, it's the norm and not special.



Once you bring it down to the common denominator, it's no longer a premium brand.

You're assuming porn is the only avenue that produces films and pictures. Given that for someone without the proper training, skills and experience porn is a way a person can earn a living with a camera and naked girls. I did it for years. The offline days where publishers did pay big money for content weren't as easy as you imagine. Which red-blooded male wouldn't like to earn a 6 £figure income shooting naked girls? The problem was more than getting the exposure and poses right. It was finding the right new talent, persuading her into doing things reserved for her boyfriend, getting a few other things right as well. Even then I've seen far better photographers than me screw up shooting porn. However, those days are gone. :(

The title of the thread is " Business What would it take for you to promote HUSTLER again?" And my poin t is with all the better ratios, better tools, more free content, etc, amount to nothing these days if when the surfer doesn't land on the samples they see something worth spending $1 a day on. And that we know is why most sites are lucky to convert 1-10,000 of surfers who see samples. They have to see something that's in their opinion is better than what every other producer can produce, at the time they're surfing. And that's not done by shooting content for the same price as everyone else.

Your approach is aimed at how little it can be shot for, mine is aimed at how great it can be shot to support a premium brand like Hustler.

Agree. So those affiliates have to accept promoting the same old stuff that converts no better than the rest or taking less in % for something that's easier to sell.

Told this essentially to the OP many posts above, content is everything, the rest comes on its own.

any failing company that leads with "how can we make you happy" is openly admitting to having no clue what the market needs, what the market wants and certainly has no intention whatsoever of being innovative and ahead of the competition. it's basically you, reading your own eulogy as a company.

your goal should be ahead of the curve and leading, not openly bragging about being behind with no hope of ever leading and then relying on others to tell you where you've fallen short, just so you can hope to get back to mediocre.

there are many many many people who have made more money online in this biz by people sitting alone, quietly behind a keyword in a dimly lit room working 18hr days for a couple years than you guys have made since day 1.

you guys have nothing to offer anyone... .that 100 other programs can't offer. your brand faded with the death of magazines.

online, you are officially a non-entity.... because you couldn't see the obvious pending demise of your business.

I agree with you on this :thumbsup

Sticking a new label on an old site isn't going to cut it.

True, they need to bring a fresh new style of their content, top class girls and make it different to the others.

That is not what that means ... you do comprehend that?

Spot on! (And no, I am not saying I make more than Hustler does, that would be absurd. BUT after doing this for eight years+ I have generated millions of dollars in revenue.)

Hustler Holly: The FIRST thing Hustler needs to do is get "up to speed" with marketing porn in 2017. That means better tours, better presentation, something unique and intriguing and, most of all, consistency. Get your Affiliate Program under control, re-design and A-B test your tours, think about shooting content that is closer in quality to X-Art, Babes, Blacked, etc. Hustler has the resources to shoot this kind of content, and shoot it well....

But maybe it's all pointless since maybe Larry Flynt was the only true "visionary" at Hustler and since he's not running the ship anymore what's left are industry 'veterans' who only know how to sell the same old shit. :(

Paul Markham: Content content blah blah content. Sigh.

So give us more than a lazy soundbite. How should they rebrand?

So you think that redesigning crap makes it look better. So redesign your sites.

Customers are far too wise these days to be fooled by a new design on old stale content that's similar to everyone else. Even having the Brand name of Hustler proves that branding, marketing, Affiliate Program, re-design and A-B tests won't cut it.

You are right about getting the content up to the quality other leading sites offer. My point is the costs of doing that. As you know nothing about production leave it to me to educate you. :1orglaugh

Paul, I wouldn't let you "educate me" about anything other than relocating to the Czech Republic. :)

And I know the cost of production. Hustler should be able to afford ANY production cost, right? Hustler has resources most of us could never dream of having. It has to do with style, direction, focus and good ideas.

Of course, trying to 're-brand' an old school brand in 2017 is no easy feat.

Not every question deserves an answer Paul.
Furthermore, I am not not presumptuous enough to tell someone tactically how to run their business.


Why isn't IBM a leading brand today -- their "content" is updated?

Brand is not a business name or a logo.

pretty sure everyone who isn't PM understood what you meant, he just likes responding with retorts he thinks are gotchas that serve to underscore the argument he's trying to rebut

like using to a/b testing so you only have to check your traffic and sales stats one a year =)

I just skip over his posts, can't risk missing all the sage advice on cams that I'd be deprived of if I put him on block

but yeah, as you and others have pointed out above, unlike one of the banners on the hustlercash site states; Hustler isn't a "brand that sells itself". at least not anymore.

it's simply not all that relevant to a younger generation of porn viewers, or anyone immersed in online porn in 2017.

the quality of the content and importance that Hustler places on that content in terms of branding and sales strategies and choices in production are all causes and a symptoms of that problem, different elements of the problem absolutely, but also absolutely linked to one another

anyways, setting aside the irrelevant ramblings this is a really cool thread

The idea Hustler can afford any production costs is delusional. Unless you want them to fund production and make a loss.

Barry, just saying rebrand was a pointless post. The OP asked what it would take. Rebranding could end up with worse profit margins.

Hustler built its brand on content that was the best in its sector. This was done 20 years ago, it has no brand with the younger market. They have grown up on seeing free samples and making a judgement from that. It's simply not all that relevant to a younger generation of porn viewers, or anyone immersed in online porn in 2017.

To win them back is going to be expensive. It can't be done by producing the level of porn most good sites produce, good but not great. They will just be another site doing OK content and in a market where samples are what converts surfers. Samples have to be top drawer to establish a brand.

Can Hustler afford to spend more than what they spend now to change enough of their samples to affect the way surfers think about their content?

Maybe wiser people than me can tell us what's exception about these videos.

https://www.pornhub.com/view_video.p...wkey=443772326

https://www.pornhub.com/view_video.p...wkey=460465677

To establish a Brand. The product needs to different enough to make the consumer care about the brand name. Not see it as another can on a shelf stuffed full of cans.

Let's try some maths.

What do they now spend on content?

How much extra do they need to spend on content?

How many extra sign-ups are needed to warrant the extra spend given the amount of their turnover is allocated to content?

If the average now is $3,000 for a BG scene and they need to increase that by an extra $1,000. And the amount allocated to content is 10%. The need 333.3 extra sign ups from one scene, 666.6 from two scenes, 999.9 from three scenes.

To establish a brand what would be enough new better content? Maybe 100 scenes. Now do the maths.

They might be spending more or less, might need to increase it by more or less and might be spending more or less on content. Play with the numbers, but the theory is right.

Hustler adult is purely used for branding. I doubt Larry cares much about it given how well his other businesses are doing (namely casinos).

I brought up that you don't need to spend more on content to produce a higher quality than they are shooting right now, i brought this up due to the fact if theyre working with an internal budget or there is other reasoning. I agree with what you are suggesting but i brought up that there is no excuse for the quality they are offering, or for anybody to offer such quality because they could very well much produce better content within the same budget. Is this my suggestion, of course not. I would suggest upping the budget and taking full advantage of being Hustler (capital/connections within adult). Companies set internal budgets, whether those are correct or not, i was telling them its very much possible to work within that budget in order to show proof of concept

They do not need to spend more. They just have to do things differently. Better producers aren't better because they spend more. I am not sure why you are not getting that. Hustler can obtain better producers at the same rate. End of story.

I have no idea why you responded with

When i brought up the fact that you can create better content at the same price by choosing better producers and a way to get better production out of them. (by using a production team and creating a relationship with them and being able to up their pay or ownership percents in their product, etc etc)

I am not sure whether you believe adult producers are maxing out what their equipment can do or where your logic comes from but pro equipment is pro equipment. Just because these other companies are using it as well, doesn't mean you cannot create better porn content. Production, like painting, is an art. It doesn't cost more to produce better. There are exceptions if we're talking a vast difference in equipment but everybody is using equipment in the same top tier right now. There is nothing out there that will give you a significant advantage

To play devils advocate, there are several reasons to ask such questions, that might not be quite as obvious as what you are suggesting

They could already be working on the ideas and want to show their superiors that they are infact working on things that people want. Not everybody within a company knows what needs to be done, its typically up to the person in charge of that position that develops these ideas.

It could be to show the forum/affiliates that they are infact making changes and listening to affiliates again (most likely scenario), basically purely PR. For all anybody knows, they aren't changing anything but they got the views and branding from this thread. Marketing is marketing, it took her less than 1 minute to create this thread. ROI is good ;)

Playing the odds, a long shot to find a creative idea they didn't think of, the more information that you seek out, the more likely you will come acrosss something you do not know, whether you are very good at your job or not, theres always ways to improve

However you could be entirely right

Still find it hard to believe that they are actually making significant enough changes to impact affiliates, however, like i said, i hope they do!

If you get me a new Civic TypeR or GTR i'll send you traffic daily for the next 5 years ;)

"Joking"

How much do they spend now on a B/G scene and what do you think would make it higher quality?

How much do they spend now on a B/G scene and what do you think would make it higher quality?

Better producers cost more because other people will pay them more.

Better porn has little to do with the equipment used.

Here's what I think makes porn better.

The best producers. That means paying them what others will.
A better location. This can be luxurious villas or sun-drenched beaches, etc.
First time models and the best models. They charge more.
For hardcore maximum two scenes a day, girls put in poor to bad performances if overworked.
Sound technician.
Lighting technician this would include someone using a "Pussy Light" as someone shoots the video.
Two cameramen.
Editing. Even down to removing the clicks of high heels on a hard floor. which detract from consumers pleasure unless needed in the scene.

The most important part is to get models to put something into the scene that raises the porn to a higher level. The best camera and best use of it capturing a cookie cutter performance are put to shame by two models going for it when captured on a mobile phone.

Hustler is a great name and an honest company so I would say a BIG promotion for the introduction of the new Hustler
$50 per signup on all signups including trials
then take them back to 60% / 40%

and adding VR is a good idea;-)

Thanks again guys!

To paraphrase Steve Jobs... "by the time people understand what they want, its too late to develop and bring that product to a dynamic and ever changing market. People don't generally know what they want until they see it. We don't meet demand. We create demand through innovation."

My point was simply that this thread is to basically ask the market - "you've abandoned us, now what??"

This very thread exemplifies why they are in the position they are in.

Thumbing your nose at the government, seeking out and fighting court battles for PR and being generally offensive by attacking religious personalities was a decent strategy to a first to market niche publisher in 1979.

Today, it's what every other teenage asshole on the planet with a slutty girlfriend and a phone camera is doing. This is what they clearly don't understand.

Seriously.... does a competent affiliate program need to ask what tools are needed.... ask what payouts people want, ask how they want to be paid etc etc? That's a question made under the guise of being responsive to the market but that also acknowledges with no uncertainty that they have no understanding of the market at all.

No great affiliate program which endured any real amount of time had "great tools". They had very basic tracking, with truly innovative, creative and unique and exclusive content.

No enduring, successful business ever starts with "tell us what you want and we'll get that for you". They're too busy 'wowing' people with innovation, creativity and great execution.

And by the way, who gives a shit how long someone has been around? KB was around for a long time too. His brother, Darren the "consultant" was around for a long time. Tons of has beens were around for a long time.

I'm sure every officer on the Titanic was around for a long time and had a very nice note regarding that inscribed on their head stones... being around for a long time and still being lost as to what to do next, is not so great for a career or as an example of great judgement.

Look at all the Old School brands like Playboy, Penthouse, Hustler, Oui.....(Is 'Oui' still around?). They are all struggling. And, as Paul Markham typifies with every one of his 'educational' posts, marketing and branding knowledge from the 20th Century and print media does not translate well to today's new realities.

Simply saying "shoot great, compelling, unique content" is not the key. There is a LOT of great content being shot today. No, it's how you SELL the content that is most important TODAY in 2017.

Of course you need something of quality to sell (or something amateur but unique). But it goes way, way beyond just having compelling content. Also, let's remember we need to re-adjust expectations in 2017. Hustler will never, ever dominate online porn, or even be a major player. Hustler can (and should) get its' online sales in par with other competitors in the market but they will never be "Hustler" again without some wild innovation. The best they can do is what other successful online brands are doing - and that's nothing compared to how well Hustler used to do back in the Paul Markham century.

What you said reminds me of AEBN.net.... on one hand bragging about spending 8 figures a month on media buys.... WHILE AT THE SAME TIME, streaming on Real Player and .WMV files both requiring downloads at the time... their solution for the future? The fucking brain trust in N Carolina came up with that stupid ass masturbator (Real Touch) which i heard from employees cost many millions to develop and produce.... all to do what? Sell more EXPENSIVE access to the same shitty video on demand service, using the same shitty videos and still using streaming technology from the previous decade.

Where is AEBN right now??? Who knows...

This business if full of "right place, right time" jerkoffs that should have never made a penny who want to talk about what they did.

Imagine Apple talking non stop about the Apple II for for the next 10 fucking years... as if it mattered. Thankfully, successful companies are talking about the next 10 years, not the last so we don't usually have to read this text based historical tour of obviousness.

I don't know to be honest, i predict some of the things i already mentioned. They get discounted content due to the producers already having it, they have content in the bank, perhaps a combo of that and outright new scenes, i haven't actually analyzed their content in full so i have no idea if its all very recently shot. However if they do, i imagine a pretty small budget, 2500? No idea to be honest. It'd be pointless to guess.

Why do I think you can create content for a better cost.

Like i said, there are people who value security over a higher pay per shoot. So you get them at a lower cost, much lower cost. This leaves room a higher quality scene

You shoot in an area that is cheaper to shoot in, this leaves room for a higher quality scene.

You potentially hire somebody outside of adult due to people outside having more technical knowledge and the fact theyll work for cheap to gain experience in the adult industry. They can be coached by somebody in adult, this is all out of the box thinking that adult companies lack

You don't work far away from models to avoid flights, this allows you more money for clothing, styling, etc

You pay normal hair/makeup rates instead of adult (adult is 500-1000 for a hair makeup girl sometimes), instead, you pay 100 bucks because just about every pretty girl without a degree has attended some beauty school and can achieve the look adult needs. Put her on salary to make it worth their while. 100/day might not seem good but the security of having a full time job and a flexible/enjoyable one, one where they get to work with gorgeous models in order to build their portfolio.

You find assistants who want exposure to the industry, or want to train how to be a producer, you'd be surprised but theres people out there who will do this type of thing for 10 an hour or unpaid internship.

When you have the ability to manage operations properly and budget accordingly, you are able to spend more money where it actually affects the content quality. And if you think you need to pay more for a producer, this is how you do it. All you need to do is stay within a budget, you can hire a better producer while staying within a budget

If you think all production teams in adult leave no room for cost reduction, this is where you are mistaken. You can produce better scenes with a producer at the same rate using cost reducing techniques, nevermind the fact with thorough research, you can find producers for a cheaper rate. Sadly adult companies don't look outside of their circles in order to find employees. They all just hire each others low to mid level employees. People the last company didn't value enough to keep around

Youre correct for the most part, this is all what is required to get good porn. Theyre doing most of this, the only difference of why its not successful,is that they are not good at it. lol being good at what you do doesn't cost more. if you go into the world and you rank people by best to worst at whatever job position theyre in, the quality matches their pay, you'd be completely wrong. job experience, the company theyre working for, who they know, etc etc

you can find a better producer for cheaper. simple

I agree with you here. "Hustler can (and should) get its' online sales in par with other competitors in the market but they will never be "Hustler" again without some wild innovation." The problem is paying for it and not going broke. With porn converting so badly these days, ROI is King. As always.

Of course, the great content has to be marketed well. The problem is getting the great content first so when people see it, they like it enough to buy it. Which is why even with the greatest marketing, Porn Nerd won't sell well.

I still dont know what people mean when they say things are bad or porn doesn't convert. This is what happened, internet was new, sales were flowing, everything was so over the top good that people were retiring after a year in some cases. Things dropped some, tubes were introduced. People then saw they cannot spend the same amount, some simply saw the decline but people stopped spending or spent very little. This caused the industry to drop at a significant rate, however if you continued to spend the same amount, people would have still profited a ton but thye sent their businesses in a downward spiral even more. This is the problem with porn companies today, they are all afraid of producing at a higher cost because porn doens't sell like it did 10 years ago, but to say it doesn't still sell very well when you do it right, is crazy. If all youre saying is that porn when produced half assed doesn't sell, well thats pretty obvious. Thats the world we live in, make something shitty, you wont see success. Sadly every porn company is compiled of people with absurd expectations due to what they were making 10-15 years ago who wish they were still making a million off any project they launched and are completely unhappy with the 500k, etc - then you have the other percent who aren't aware there is still 500k/year to be made off a single project.

^^^ sums up the entire industry

Good porn still sells. The issue is that most people can't really tell the difference between good and poor, these companies wouldn't be producing this content if they didn't think it was good, in their opinion theyre producing good porn and its just not selling that well. This is where the idea comes from that porn doesnt sell, not everybody has the eye for whats good. Sadly this industry is compiled of people who are either unaware, don't care enough because they already made their bank and people not educated enough to capitalize. Alot of companies are still handcuffed due to the lack of skill in the production department. Adult's best producers (minus maybe one or two people) couldn't even get an assisting job in any mainstream project. They simply have no idea how to shoot. Most producers dont have the ability to judge talent, most don't know when a model looks their best (because they alway think they look amazing), they dont understand the market, they do not know how to adapt their style, they do not care enough to continue improving (lack of drive), etc etc

The people still doing it right are making a ton, while other people sit here and talk about how bad things are.

Industries mature, this is whats occurring. The talented people and more corporate companies who know how to manage their budget and not afraid to spend are rising to the top and the small to medium sized businesses are fading away. This industry still makes money, but it will remain in the top percent. Is it hard to reach the top percent, no. will be be eventually? yes. but right now, with the level of production people offer, theres ample opportunity to come in and produce a better scene. Right now, the current trend is "erotica", these producers spend so much time focusing on the quality of their lighting and composition and the technical side that they've completely lost sight on making the scene actually interesting. So far there has been 0 balance of quality and substance. And until the production teams follow the company in regards to how they operate and manage finances, there will be room to improve. Production teams are still adult, while the companies have turned corporate/mainstream (in a sense). These production teams are still way behind the times

Maybe you can suggest ways that brands can improve their marketing and selling in these times. What advice would you offer the OP to answer her question?

Business What would it take for you to promote HUSTLER again?