Entirely disagree, but then again, there the problem. People cannot differentiate between the types. There is poor content that doesn't make anything, then there is average/good content that is hit or miss, depending on the traffic/resources they have and whether they succeeded by hitting a target market that was more easily available. Then there is good content, thats the people who are succeeding. All sites with good content are making a TON. And there isn't alot of companies achieving this. Is it hard to achieve? Not at all, it simply requires knowing the difference. Technically its very easy to make the changes

I can count on one hand the amount of companies actually putting the time and effort into production. And not just buying whatever mid level content their producer supplies them with. And most of the sites belong to Blacked. LOL

Steam engines still sell. Just not well enough for Ford to invest a lot of money trying to make Steam Engine cars.

You're a bit out on the 10-15 years ago. Porn made great money 50-8 years ago. when making $500,000 was achievable for most who could get into the business properly.

Today the investment and skill needed to make $500k profit are beyond most.

https://media.giphy.com/media/DypHcxyEqRzHi/giphy.gif http://gif-finder.com/wp-content/upl...aprio-Clap.gif

Sadly too many people putting up sites were good webmasters and knew little about porn consumers. Their primary motive when buying was the price.

The essential element of porn is that the viewer believes it's real.

I was just throwing out a random timeframe, didn't give it much thought, yes it was approx 5-8~

Why is the skill and investment beyond these people though, there are tons of people who made serious money in this business, yet only a few have enough to invest 100k to make 500k+? because thats what it costs to launch a top product these days. Roughly.Thats not a massive amount when considering most people outside adult spend that much to start their businesses and most are in the red for ages and it takes a long time to see profit like that, if ever. However in adult, if you create a good content site with 100k, you are near guaranteed to make a substantial profit. Ive still yet to see a site with top end production fail. And ive been in this business for a LONG time. People have no idea how easy things are in adult. Great production includes "good lighting, relevant top models, north american models, somebody working on it with experience in marketing and a somewhat proven track record, professional equipment, shot in a style that fits the standard, etc"

I've read similar posts to what Porn Nerd says for 16 years now. It mostly boils down to the sponsor giving the affiliates more help and money. Which led to the saturation of free porn, small production budgets and the decline of sales. It would be interesting if he came up with any ideas on anyone improving selling and marketing.

Well first we have to say that "good content" is subjective. I see amateur girls all the time with shitty lighting and horrible sets and makeup. Yet it still sells and I find it compelling. Then I see "good content" (like Blacked, or Met-Art, or Babes, etc) and I find it boring as hell. All white backgrounds, slow-motion, soft lighting, etc. So "good content" is 100% SUBJECTIVE.

Having said all that, I stand behind the comment that selling is the #1 most important thing, even beyond "good content".

Also, let's not forget that those companies still producing content may be doing so to spend money, with no other 'reason' (if you catch my drift) so you cannot compare them to smaller companies who are actually trying to survive on joins and rebills. :)

Hustler should go all in with social media. Sponsor some Industry shows. Come up with some unique promotions. It would take an effort but it can be done.

Its subjective to you (or an individual). In the world of business, there is a right and wrong. Nobody is out there guessing what will hit or miss. Experience, an eye, research, results/stats, these things are used in determining what is the most desirable type of content and what people want. They are targeting the largest market.

You see white as boring and dull, they just shoot that way and dont know why other than they're trying to shoot it all romantic and "high end". Well there's several reasons... Guess what is most important, video quality (clarity), The less light your camera needs to produce, the higher quality your content will be. White walls allow for light to reflect and bounce, resulting in needing less artificial light and a lower ISO setting on your camera. End result, you get less noise and a clearer image. Clarity is highly important. Its why 1080 is so important today. If you think these companies create a higher quality production due to their equipment, its not, its due to lighting and their white walled homes. Carpet, accessories like book cases, etc reflect different shadows/light resulting in a poorer quality scene. Natural light and white walls allow a model to look her best due to the fact its softer on her skin, that results in a model looking better than the competition. So while you see boring, theyre also covering 9/10 of the other things which make them BETTER (which isn't subjective), also it brings me to the point that you can copy that and make them good, they are just so caught up in the technical aspect. Sadly nobody is offering both technical and creative. But if you are going to suggest that these sites simply are not better, you would be wrong. You should be able to put your personal taste aside. Better = pleases the larger amount of people = more $$$. Unless you have a different definition

As far as your other coments, sponsoring industry shows brings very little results. Hustler has made a presence at every show for AGES, they have all the connections needed and no longer have to brand themselves to execs and alike. Sponsoring the show is about ego or for new company to show they can and should be respected.

Simply saying social media is very vague. And while things like this will greatly help a company, its not the reason for an adult companies success or not, and marketing to a younger audience will never fly when you got outdated content. Adult is VERY limited in its marketing avenues, well for the traditional paysite concept. So they need to cater to the avenues that bring the most sales. As far as right now, tubes have the the majority of traffic, vast majority. You need to concentrate on pleasing those surfers before figuring out alternative marketing methods. They have not done that yet, due to low end production

Wrong. Shooting generic porn without your own personal touch and preferences won't make you stand out. And I have seen people complain about those white backgrounds too.

Oh wow, lots to read on this page..

You should incorporate your personal taste into porn (theres alot of ways to do this while still working within guidelines - this is what professionals do) - you should be able to do that with any genre/style, if you can only do it in the style you like, then you most likely going to be out of work (unless you happen to get lucky and your personal taste is the same as the masses - lansky? Brigham Field?). I said you should be able to separate it and know what is best and most desirable, thats all. I can just 10 girls accordingly to public, and it wouldn't be at all according to my own personal list. Knowing the difference is key.

And nobody is succeeding with porn that doesn't appeal to the masses just because theyre passionate about what they do or because they incorporate their own taste into it. It makes it better when it is. But if you aren't starting with something that is heavily desirable, it wont do anything

I never said white walls suited everybody, i explained why its preferred and theres much more to it than style. People goto those sites because of the clarity of video, attractiveness of models, etc - all of which are a result of the white walls. So regardless if you do or do not like it, theres enough people who like any of the other 9 reasons. It outweighs the people who think the setting is boring. Can debate this all you want but the industry isn't forcing this look on people. You would know this if you had the actual data/numbers

Shooting for masses = losing your identity, the special factor of the scenes which makes you different. Yes, it could bring more money.. but it won't make you remembered.

...think about X art and the reason why they are remembered.. because they were the first to bring this concept, they are the ORIGINAL... others are just their copies.

I don't see any difference between nubiles, babes and passion-hd. Those sites have no personality, it is mass produced porn, copies of x art. The reason to join would be the beautiful girls and no, if a girl is ugly, light won't make her look beautiful. It will only make the image more appealing.

You make it sound like white walls and backgrounds are the formula to a beautiful scene. That's just completely wrong.

I don't care about masses. Masses = sheeps. They have no special taste. I only want to attract people, who like my work, not masses. Masses have a lot of choices, but if you are ORIGNAL, there is just you.. no other choice.

Screw white background, black backgrounds all the way :1orglaugh

http://i.imgur.com/FnHXKBG.jpg

http://i.imgur.com/9okmjYd.jpg

http://i.imgur.com/oVnpzWH.jpg

:thumbsup

You know nothing about porn.

The essential element is the connection between the performers and the viewers. It's the same as movies, the actors have to be doing it so well the viewer believes in it. This rule crosses every niche, genre, style and quality in porn. This is why a couple banging the life out of each other, with shitty lighting and horrible sets and makeup sells. And staged performances, HD, 3D, VR, hite backgrounds, slow-motion, soft lighting, etc. With models going through the motions fails to raise a hard on.

No matter how much you "sell" the product at some point while the surfer is trying it out with the free samples, he won't buy.

How does that improve conversions if when the surfer sees the samples, he isn't motivated to buy?

If the person creating the product has no interest in the product. The product is less for it.

White backgrounds lead to bounce light which produces a haze and reduces the definition of the image.

The market has changed in the last 10 years to the point that without great content sales are going to be poor. What is great content is obvious but for some reason a lot of people in porn deny the obvious.

Great cinema, tv or theatre performances are obvious, good writing, camera work but above all great acting so the viewer believes in the intensity of the scene. When it comes to porn we're in the most intense moments. So when we see models moan, groan, gyrate with no emotion it fails to build up the impulse to jerk off let alone buy more.

Good porn needs a setting to be believable and models more than pieces of meat gyrating with music over the top of live sounds, or models moaning and groaning on cue. Sadly with today's culture of producing porn for a price with a conveyor belt mentality. That isn't possible.

The great thing about the black background content Sinfulxxx.com that I've seen is, the models look like they're fucking for real. It would be far better if the great action were transformed to believable settings.

15 years ago and more, sites, magazines, DVDs could get away ith it. Today with tubes holding 99%, or close, of porn traffic content is king. Sites have got to produce content that makes the viewer want to see of that companies product. Then tomorrow surf Pornhub for another companies product to jerk off to.

first, don't listen to people that are retired from this biz and only know one side of the biz.. it's not all about content quality or blah blah blah.. Dude get over yourself and go relax in your retirement home. Does your nurse know you are getting this worked up on the internet? lol

I'd promote you right now but I hate the $100 min. If it was $50 or even $70 I'd give it a shot since you offer $35 pps. I'm just so sick of these $100-$200+ min BS. I mean 10 yrs ago I would give it a shot cause porn still sold good but today it's hit or miss and I'm not going to promote a bunch of companies and have $70+ balances that I might or might not ever get paid for. just my :2 cents:

Well agree to disagree. And the only reason X-art is remembered, is due to the fact they were the first to shoot this way. No other reason. Perhaps you confuse being first/original with shooting the style you jerk off to.

The problem with people who are worried about a $100 minimum is, they're losers who can't convert or rebill 6.6 sign-ups a month. I don't see people like you forging a new future for anyone. Worried that in a few months promoting you might have only converted 5 surfers. Labels you.

SpicyM has a good point.

"I don't see any difference between nubiles, babes and passion-hd."

You can add another 20 or more sites to that list, they're all much od a clone of someone else. He's wrong in "The reason to join would be the beautiful girls" if that were the case they would convert a lot better, however, they all have beautiful girls so the benefit of beauty is lost.

The problem is none stand out with a reason to buy, there's very little to market than "We have another HD scene of an attractive girl doing porn." Just like the scene, we added yesterday, and the day before and the day before and as we have been adding for the last 12 months. Other than putting up a link, sample, blog text, Tweet, etc. What is there to market that will affect a surfer?

How about creating content solely for marketing? This isn't as hard as it sounds and a tool that can be given to affiliates or used by an in-house promotional team.

Surfers who buy need reasons to buy and nothing is better than giving them an insight into the models and the way porn's created.

Cameras going behind the scene shooting models at play, relaxing, getting ready for a shoot, talking about the upcoming shoot and most importantly shooting them after the shoot all frazzled and well fucked but happy. Shoot it softcore and it goes on YT, shoot a bit naughtier and it goes on a site or sites dedicated to what goes on BTS. Affiliates can use it on blogs, link to it from Twitter, models can promote themselves as well, or someone claiming to be them. That's a matter to be covered in Model Releases.

No longer are girls pieces of pretty meat, they're people who have feelings, personalities and good looks. The surfer has more to attract him to the product, seeing her naked and fucking.

This assumes you're not using models who don't speak a word of English and production people with the personality of as loaf of bread. And affiliates like SBJ who clearly want to do no more than including a banner on their site. Please don't claim you can't make more sign ups a month if you actually put your mind to it. I'm sitting in my garden this afternoon getting a sun tan because I knew how to market my content.

I make my own gif galleries that convert better than banners, fhgs, and vhgs.

I've promoted websites for 16+ years. Have you ever in your life promoted anything?? No cause you were only a photographer. Webcam company CB has a $50 min and I make hundreds every 2 week period.

This is 2017 and most of the vids from pornsites are all over tube sites so pornsites convert at a much lesser ratio these days yet programs continue to raise the min payouts. All I'm saying is if a webcam company can pay out at $50, why can't more companies do it? Cause they want to hold on to affiliates money longer. :2 cents:

Now run along and take your morning meds at the nursing home old man.

"I don't see any difference between nubiles, babes and passion-hd."

What does that have to do with anything? Its clearly working. You can create your unique content that appeals to the minority and risk success. They copy that way because it works, there hasn't been a site thats copied it and it didn't work. Just because YOU want to be different doesn't mean it doesn't work

Where do you guys find logic in this. This is about what sells and you bring up points like, 'there are a bunch of sites so similar' ? Sure if new ones were like that and failing, you would have a point but they aren't and you dont

Not so great if you're worried about a $100 limit. It could be lower if you pay the fees on the transfers.

Of course I had, otherwise no one would know who I was. No one beats a path to a door they don't know exists. Wow!!!! $100s every 2 weeks, that makes you a high whale.

Agreed so a company has to do more than offer the consumers the same old cloned, cookie cutter porn that's more meat than sizzle.

As far Hustler hanging onto your $100 far months, again that says more about you than you think. don't you realise that by worrying this point you label yourself as a loser?

Seriously if you can't make $100 a month promoting a site, you're small fry.

When it comes to marketing my knowledge stretches far beyond making gif galleries. It's about what customers need. And as you point out a sites porn scenes are everywhere, so raising the bar above that avenue of promoting is essential. Your gif galleries won't promote a site as well as a BTS of models showing how much they look forward and enjoyed the work afterwards. All I did was take what movie companies have been doing for decades and suggest Hustler do it for porn.

Back in the 90s, long before Youtube and Social Media, I did the same on sample videos that I sold separately or added a clip onto tape. Most of my Astral Blue Content was 1-hour tapes of three scenes featuring 1 girl. The added sample guaranteed an extra sale. Astral Blue's re-order business was 85% of sales.

Which is why I don't respect people worried about a $100 limit.

I can afford a nursing home. Which is more than you can.

I get what you say and yes from the samples I saw Hustler needs to step up a lot on the actual production. But this is about what would make someone promoting nubiles, babes and passion-hd, etc. To add or switch to Hustler.

The hardest thing in selling and marketing is getting a competitors consumer/distributor/promoter to change course. SBJ is worried about not making a handful of sales a month. What if he was given the material to make those sales in less than 30 days? Because obviously, he's not making them today with his present sponsors.

Loyalty is the most important thing in sales and marketing, we are creatures of habit.

Will the prospective "customer" change brands from something they're familiar and comfortable with to someone they don't know other than a name? That's a tough sale.

Don't take my word for it because I'm just a photographer. Marketing getting customers to switch.

Before going into porn I marketed and sold £millions worth of goods including advertising. I was taught marketing by professionals.

Porn: I can't describe it but I know it when I see it. Isn't that the famous quote from some judge? LOL

I've sold millions of dollars of porn over the past decade so, um, yes I do know a little bit about porn. But I will break it down for you, it's so simple. Here it is:

IF IT GETS A GUY'S DICK HARD IT'S PORN.

And that, ladies and gentlemen (as this thread proves), is SUBJECTIVE.

Carry on.

Can you stop mentioning me in every post? I will not insult you anymore in this thread ok..

I am just replying to the topic and that was what would get me to promote them. I'm just tired of the stupid high min payouts. I actually posted to this last night cause I was pissed at another sponsor that I promote that is upping the min payout to $200. I'm tired of this trend. Sales are down and it cost us too much to send out $100 checks so we'll up it to $200.

What I'm saying is be different as a sponsor and lower the min payouts and you will see more small affiliates promoting.

The whole great debate. What is better a big affiliate that can send you 10 sales a day or 5 that can send you 2 sales a day? some will say the 10 guy cause the 5 will bug you for tools and stupid shit. I've done this long enough that I don't need stupid shit to promote.

For you, it's all about content but she never asked what is wrong with our product. She asked what would it take to get us to promote her stuff. I answered the question.

That's really hot! :thumbsup

It only works because it's the best you can find online ATM, in terms of models and picture quality. That doesn't mean it is the best porn and that everyone should copy that.

I wouldn't shoot something without my personal touch.

There is a difference between being a seller and being a pornographer. The latter takes pleasure in this .. the former only wants to make as much cash as possible and doesn't matter what he sells.

People can see the difference.

You bring up a really excellent point in terms of actually promoting a Program. Regardless of whether Paul Markham scoffs at affiliates complaining about $100 payouts being small-time or not - ironic since $100 in CZ where Paul lives probably pays all his medical bills for the month - it IS important.

If you, as an affiliate, promote hundreds of Programs, and each keep raising their payouts to above $100, then it gets insanely frustrating to have all that money "out there" and not getting any of it. So yes, lower payouts will attract affiliates.

:1orglaugh Succeeding in porn today isn't about basing your decisions on getting a select group of affiliates to switch to you. Affiliates are a very very small part of todays successful sites, unless you count tubes as an affiliate, which you can.

Sites that succeed today are seen on tubes, alot of exposure comes from tubes and ads. The better quality content you have, the better sales you'll get. Simple

Are you a producer? You dont really sound like one. From what i know, you are an affiliate marketer no?

You sound like you may be biased. It sounds like you want companies to just keep trying to pop out something brand new and great converting so you can make money or you can jerk off to but you are ignoring the business side of it and the fact theres a reason why companies dont and thats because they don't like pissing money away. Its not your money so its very easy to say.

I am in production and i have worked with large companies, i have access to actual stats and i have strong relationships with many large companies. I know exactly why theyre doing what theyre doing

The fact is, they produce porn like that because it works. Is there room to improve, yes. But thats the base you should work with. You would like to see completely different but completely different is a risk. Companies are generally afraid of taking risks, especially a company like Hustler who has proved not to reinvest into adapting, you think they'd come back and take a risk by creating something new? You need to prove a concept first before you dive in. Thats how business works.

Just like the car industry, you dont come out with something completely futuristic, even if you believe it to be 500x better. You need to introduce small things at a time and lead them towards something. If you want to come out with a new product thats a hit, you take what is being offered and make it better. So yes, they should be looking at the Vixen's, Blacked's, NubileFilms' of the world and seeing how they can be improved on without changing a ton, as it introduces an amount of risk.

Yeah the production quality of those types of sites have always been truly amazing but dark has never sold in porn and that was extremely evident real early. Its a very very small niche.

A large part of it is due to the fact they are set in a studio style setting, if they could achieve such a level of lighting and production in a living room at night, or a high rise apartment at night, i think it could be alot more successful. However the problem with that is you lose the control of light outside of that style studio. It requires alot more skill

yup, you get it. It's not about if I think I can make $100 in sales it's if I can make $100/200 to tons of different programs all the time. I'm 404ing all my nscash promo this weekend cause I won't waste my time promoting a $200 min payout program. I'll send my traffic to CB at $50 payouts.

Thought I'd throw out the idea here cause she asked the question and even had the word payouts in her first post. But sadly no programs care about what affiliates want so nothing will change.

Actually, they have nothing to lose.. anything new and different would be better than what they have now. :2 cents:

So.. your formula for saving the brand is using white backgrounds.. ? :1orglaugh

Joining the club of 150 similiar paysites with the exact same style of videos and probably the same chicks too.. ? I would expect something exceptional from brand like Hustler, not another generic porn production.. but as I said, anything new could help them at this point.

What would it take to promote Hustler?

If my team could cut the videos to promote it. Quite honestly, I don't why but most programs have some of the shittiest video tools. Its like they are all using the same cookie cutter approach to the videos they want us to use to promote their site.

Its hard to convert new members who have seen the same videos over and over on tubes/blogs etc...

I find the conversion rate is significantly higher when its custom cut videos. I don't even bother promoting programs who don't allow me to cut their videos.

It's knowing what gets a dick hard that's the skilled part. You have to wait for the stats to come in.

Don't start what you can't finish. OK let's debate the topics and leave personal attacks out.

Sales are down for everyone. This means profits are down for sponsors by a wider margin. Processing affiliates payments cost money. If raising the payments level cuts costs isn't that better than them going bust?

Is it really that hard to wait a month or two longer to get a bigger check?

:thumbsup

Anyone who creates or sells something without a personal touch is just going through the motions. It usually leads to making more money.

My health care is free, I live in a country that doesn't rip off patients.

I see your point about promoting 100s of programs. Maybe if affiliates offered to pay the costs of processing a payment sponsors might be more inclined to lower the limit.

Agree. The days of affiliates dominating what sponsors offer are over except for the large Tube Sites who want more content to sell ad space.

Sadly a lot of affiliates aren't moving with the times. They put up 100s of things linked to 100s of sites and hope something lands. Can't really call that promoting as it degrades the word. All they want is tools so they can add them and hope.

More sad is the lack of marketing from sponsors. Who creates content purely for marketing? And I don't mean editing a scene down to 10 minutes for a Tube site or creating a banner. Who creates an interesting promotion campaign on FB, YT, Twitter, etc? Let alone going outside that world.

Back in the day porn marketing was far more involved. Mainstream marketing involves a lot more than putting up banners and content then making sure they get the webmastering bit right and hoping someone buys.

How many threads have we seen with sponsors asking affiliates what they want or a sponsor telling us they have a new girl?

OP if you want more people to promote Hustler. Get Hustler to do something that warrants more people promoting you. And I don't mean lower the payments level or give affiliates more of the same content.

Lighting with a black or white background is a nightmare. One soaks up light the other bounces it back into the lens.

The problem with those Sinfulxxx scenes is the background, the photography, lighting, directing are great. The heat in the scenes I've watched is great. The problem is I can't associate with me fucking a girl in a room that's all black. I can't associate with a girl I have no interest in even though she's attractive it's not enough. It's too arty and not porno enough after a few views. The scenes start to be repetitive because sex hasn't changed in billions of years.