You are so wrong with that statement.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chargemaster

Dude, I (my tax money) don't want to pay for you. There is no free ride on this.

OBSTINATE look the word up.

Unless you are on public assistance, or on Medicaid provided at taxpayer expense by the Obamacare law, you have to pay one way or another -- or the federal government (my tax dollars) pays a settlement for your care as an indigent when the hospital cannot collect.

You know what indigent means? A have not, a bum -- is that you?


If you want to play healthcare roulette, put your money on the wood including all your assets. If you are lucky, an unpaid major medical expense may just ruin your credit for 10 years -- if its a real big expense you will have to file bankruptcy to avoid paying the debt.

Or you can die and take your money with you or leave it to your survivors forsaking any medical help when you are injured or sick.

Yeah, it's fucked up but that is the fucking way it is in the USA.

I have some insight on this issues as I have been down this road. Several years ago I had a serious illness and ended up in the hospital for a few days. By the time everything was said and done (hospital, follow-up appointments, medicine, etc.) it came to right around $65,0000. Since I have a pre-existing condition I had no health insurance (this was pre-Obamacare) so I told them I was paying cash and needed the cash price. They lowered the bill to $61,000. When I told them I couldn't pay them in the time frame they wanted they threatened to send me to collections and sue me. I ended up having to hire an attorney and they were able to negotiate it down to around $15,000.

You can damn well bet someone paid that $50,000 that I didn't and I'm sure most of that money was recouped by overbilling insurance companies. The crazy thing is, after my initial evaluation and treatment most of the time I was in the hospital was just getting IV meds and being checked on. There were no big procedures so I bet the hospital still made a profit on that $15,000.

You are mistaken, the old, pre-Obamacare system didn't work for perhaps only 10% of the population. The remaining 90% were perhaps not thrilled with it, but were content with it. Obamacare did nothing to improve the situation, only made it worse, by helping the 10% while fucking 50% of the population.

No idea how you reached that conclusion. It's probably just wishful thinking. If "individual mandate" ends up staying as is, most of the republican politicians, including Trump, won't get re-elected, as removal of "individual mandate" was one of their few main selling points appealing to their voter base. And since they are not stupid, there is close to zero chance of "individual mandate" staying as is.

I'm so right. Do you actually think the insurance company is paying the remainder of your bill? Hell fucking no. If you enter an emergency room and get services as you leave you enter an office. They will ask "Do you have insurance?" If you say yes you supply it and your billing is based on that insurance. If you say no, you get billed a cash price which is generally 5-10x lower. I mean really? Do you really fucking think a aspirin costs a hospital $10 or that they greatly inflated the price for a fucking reason?

I've told this story here before. My son had a motorcycle accident last year. He thought he had insurance so that's what he told them and what they went with. Within a week the billing started arriving to the tune of $30k+. And then they figured out his insurance was cancelled. Like magic his billing was reduced to around $5-6k. The hospital themselves called it the "cash price" This isn't the only instance I'm fully aware of. Just one instance. The hospital doesn't actually lose money unless that person doesn't pay. And if that person doesn't they come after them debt collection wise. Hence the many health care bankruptcies. (And many of those people actually had insurance)

Repeal was also one of those selling points and we see how that turned out.

The individual mandate is now law. The insurance companies aren't going to allow it's removal. In their own statement made just yesterday any bill must contain “strong incentives for people to obtain health insurance and keep it year-round,”

What do you think "incentive" means in that statement? And how do you propose this "incentive" is achieved?

What if there was a way to save money and provide free medical care for all and not have an opt in opt out system?

No, it's the corporate way. Nothing to do with the USA.

Barry and people like him paid for you. This is a case that happens time after time and someone ends up paying.

What "pre-obamacare" system?

Before Obamacare, you either got healthcare through your employer, paid out of the ass for it, or went without.

The problem was the people who "went without" having healthcare. Suddenly they collapse one day, it's a $3k ride to the airport, ER, and then three or four days in the hospital. The total bill comes out to $30k, they cannot afford to pay it, forcing the hospital to cover the costs of treatment, which in turn jacks up the costs for everyone paying for insurance.

The "pre-obmacare" system only worked for those who had healthcare through their employer.

And now you either get healthcare through your employer, pay out of the ass for it, or get fined.

Nope. no one paid. The hospital likely wrote off the largely inflated cost as a "loss" on it's taxes though. What do you think they will do when those losses are guaranteed by tax dollars? Not only will everyone be forced by law to pay what ever premium they demand but said persons will pay again via increased taxes. No one is talking about restructuring medical billing practices/costs. Not even the issues biggest proponent or opponent depending on how you look at it Rand Paul. Why? Because he's a doctor.

Of course they did and a big one at that. You got what amounted to a hotel room with a few educated hospitality workers and some shitty room service. Would you pay $5000 a day for the service you received in Vegas? How about $20k?

Casualty insurance is underwritten by pooling risks and negotiating a precontracted mitigation price for healthcare services.

Private healthcare is a premium paid for services, an assignment of risk that most employers/people pay through the nose for, to private health insurance corporations, to assign high financial risk to the third-party payor -- Big Insurance Corporation.

I have no problem with you being relieved of the cost of buying insurance.

But I do think you should be denied service if you cannot pay cash in advance and left to die on the street.

That is how a free-market health system *should* work -- Is that really what you want?
Next time you go to a hospital ER room bring a credit card with thousands available -- or duct-tape the damage at home and take some aspirin.

You can only have your cake and eat it too in Unicornland ...

How do you suggest that occurs when the prices for care aren't fixed (within a range)? Are they suppose to say, hmm, I'm not really sure what your problem is so just give me ALL your money and then some... If your mechanic said that to you what would you do?

Now another topic of non-discussion. What do those paying a penalty actually receive? If they have to pay 1% of income what do they get in return? They're not getting the free health care that is provided to others obviously... So what? Satisfaction that others are being provided tax payer (by their fines) health care?

A timely video

i can imagine that things like that happen in USA every day and they even happen in europe (maybe not that much but they happen too) the reason for that is because of you so called "free market".
even when i love free markets there is a natural red line what should not be in private hands.

this what happend to you happens because the hospitals PAY BACK to the insurance companies. insurance companies even can recommend hospitals or health service or
they can EXCLUDE hospitals or health services.
an now you can guess WHY they recommend them or exclude them - just because they get cash back.

same thing with prescriptions - the biggest cars are financed from the pharma industry because doctors prescribe the most expensive medicine even when there is a much cheaper alternative.

that goes even further - the same pharma companies pay back on insurances who send their patients to a hospital what is just working with such overpriced medicine.

THIS is where you can rid of all your healthcare cost problems if you stop this ugly corruption what have to be paid from the weakest and poorest people in the system - the ones who are sick!
THIS is not a free market - this is LEGALIZATION OF THE MAFIA !!!!

Do you seriously think they write it off in their taxes? :1orglaugh

It goes onto other peoples bills.

She keeps saying it's OK I'm covered. But the cover she pays is not alright.

Yes, I'm sure they write down massive inflated losses for tax reasons. Even more so once it's guaranteed.

The Congressional Budget Office says at least 15 million people would immediately drop Obamacare if they could. They would likely go the route of buying less expensive/comprehensive insurance (like before).

https://ballotpedia.org/Scott_Rasmus...ber_of_the_Day

Which is the point of the video.

When people have insurance many of them don't care how much stuff costs because they are only paying their deductible or a small co-pay.

The insurance companies will have none of that...

"It is currently illegal for insurance companies to offer less expensive plans offering less comprehensive coverage."

They wrote the law....

So what are you going to do about it? Fuck all ...
Videos like that are foolish --

Baxter 0.9% Sodium Chloride IV Solution Bags - Viaflo® | Emergency Medical Products

$9.00 each iv bag wholesale plus shipping.
Then you have to stock them and RN's at $40/hr have to hook them up and change them. Maybe, a LPN in a hospital can do this. So maybe the actual cost incurred is $30? Ever seen an IV stand in a hospital here is one at sale at Amazon https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B0...d_i=8297370011

This is gotten out of hand but we are not dealing with reality here and neither is the government. :2 cents:

There are a lot of ways to reduce costs -- subsidizing publicly traded insurance companies is not one of them. We really have to cut the fat out of the system and concentrate more on preventative care -- it is not as profitable as trauma or chronic care -- but can prevent some of that in the first palace. Stop using the ER for a physicians office, establish walk-in public health clinics, etc ... If you look at countries that have comparable wage standards to the USA we are paying too much for too little.

Pretty sure hospitals aren't buying off a retail site and buy in bulk. That might be wholesale to someone who would be charged boatloads more via a home health service or whatever. Actual wholesale is what they pay for it. Which is probably more than a hospital buying in massive bulk.

The ONLY thing that will work is nationalization and that won't happen.

Senate pulling a late night session

"It appears that the Republican leader has a last-ditch plan waiting in the wings," Murray said on the floor. "As soon as they have an official score from the CBO, which could be hours from now, in the dead of night, Sen. McConnell will bring forward legislation that Democrats, patients and families, and even many Senate Republicans, have not seen and try to pass it before anyone can so much as blink."
Health care debate: Turmoil in Senate over 'skinny bill' - CNNPolitics.com

Ya don'tz say.

Pls don't start threads about America. It's insulting to the patriotic posters, even if they won't say it.

He's in Michigan ant brain 🐜🐜🐜🐜

Pence arrives at the Capitol. It's going down tonight it seems.

Looks like they plan to pass this skinny repeal and full bill next. Dem Senators talking about working with them on "fixing" Obamacare admitting on floor it failed.

Sorry, I have been billed about $130K in the past 6 years. I was able to get insurance because of Obamacare. I had 3 minor strokes in 2007. I have PAD in my legs from arteriosclerosis. I have paid near $30K($36K?) now in insurance premiums and the insurance paid about $45K in benefits. The balance was the amount between the chargemaster pricing billed and insurance precontracted costs.

That is just for one insured person -- myself.

Ya know, money ain't worth shit if you are a vegetable or dead.

So go fuck yourself...

Yep Republicans pass evil shit in the dead of night in Thursdays, and leave DC early Friday to avoid the shit storm.

The con is that Graham & McCain are relying on a promise by Paul Ryan not to make it into law in the house, and they'll vote Yes now, and when he does there will be fake outrage. Paul Ryan is a self entitled hardcore ass fucker.

And when they hand us shit on a platter they'll say "it was better than Obamacare, Obamacare was dead"

If it goes to conference, this thing is going to truly end up a bloated, pork filled pile of shit.

Yep #ThanksTrump

Trumpcare will be worse than Obamacare mark my words. Trump doesn't give a fuck about anyone but his bank account, same with the Republican Senators

Democrats on the Senate floor admitting obamacare failed and they will work with Republicans. As I said it will be a bipartisan fucking. Now get off your high horse.

I didn't expect this. Republicans actually get to fulfill their promise of repeal but later we get slapped right back down with the full bill which will bring back mandates as a compromise.

You don't think the cost of customers not paying isn't built into the cost of those who do pay? :1orglaugh

Which is so inflated to be ludicrous.

Not everyone that doesn't have insurance doesn't pay. It's proven right here in this thread it really doesn't make a difference if you do or you don't unless you have major medical issues. One of the Senators that last spoke said they were getting input from one insurer that said they reduced their own costs by making the provider accept a certain price. If they accepted that price the insurance company didn't pay them anything. As in the insured paid the price. I don't think he realized he sort of let the cat out of the bag. :1orglaugh

What will Americans do about it? Up till now Jack Shit.

What they should be doing about it is voting out all the politicians who allowed the system to rip them off in favour of the lobbyists. All you lot can do about is argue that Democrats or Republicans will rip you off the less.

Skinny repeal denied. On to the bipartisan megafuck.

It was always going to be a pile of shit, no matter what way they go. Too many in the Republican party are not really Republicans. And far to few conservatives to get the bloated bullshit out. The result will be crap no matter which way it goes.

I wish Republicans wouldn't put us through this shit they should have worked with Democrats to work out the links years ago but turtle head broke the rules, for a year stole a SCOTUS seat, etc.

It was all planned this way by those who wrote the bill, the insurance industry.

Schumer is on again right now proposing a "fresh start." Dedicating it to McCain.

It's all been a shit show.

Agreed.

Best of health to us man, we'll need it :thumbsup

I hope its a GOP bloodbath in 2018.

It will be a bloodbath for any incumbent if goes the way I think. I can tell you one thing I'll dump every penny I can into ousting my States Reps Democrat and Republican alike.

It's very hard to go against the incumbent machine in a primary. Especially in the Senate. But you need to punish and send a message, even if it means you elect a Democrat to make the message crystal clear. What's the point of electing a Republican if they are just liars and not really Republicans anyway.

I don't agree with a lot of the Liberal agenda, but one thing I do respect about the Democrats is they say who they are, and they stick together as one unit until the death.

What a bag of shit Trump is -- like a spiteful little child -- SHAMEFUL!

BTW, Trump's primary insurer is Medicare at 71. It's easy for him to watch the citizens he is supposed to lead -- suffer in financial burden and in some cases sickness from his spitefulness.

Still playing sides eh? You're choosing the wrong side. Washington as a whole is about to put the final nail in the middle class coffin.

Until Trump can sit down for two hours like Obama and just talk the pros and cons of healthcare, America will get nothing.

Yes because that worked out so well the first time :1orglaugh:1orglaugh