because we would all bacteria up so fast that it would be a joke :1orglaugh:1orglaugh:1orglaugh:1orglaugh

trump does not understand the terrifying prospect of pissed off people gaining the "off" switch...one day it will happen anyway...but go ahead and keep pushing :thumbsup:thumbsup:thumbsup

Can you tell me which President didn't go to war.

Kennedy was reluctant to pull out of Vietnam because he feared it would stop him getting re-elected. That was after the Bay of Pigs fiasco.

John F. Kennedy, Lyndon Johnson, and Richard Nixon were involved in the Vietnam War. The lie to the world was if Vietnam fell the rest of Indochina would fall, then all the way to Australia. Truth is after the North took over in the South there were no more countries falling to the communism.

George H. W. Bush was justified to retake Kuwait.

Clinton was right to bomb Serbia to stop them murdering Bosnian Muslims.

George W. Bush lied to invade Iraq and stupidly though the could occupy Afghanistan. And got re-elected.

Obama bombed Libya and brought down the person who cold rule it effectively.

Would Hillary have stepped up and supported more invasions?

Trump has threatened Iran, will he go to war to save his Presidency. If he does he will be wrong and will lose.

All I'm pointing out is American Presidents are not strangers to wars. Do you agree with that?

Democrats didn't invade and start multi year wars.. US didnt invade Bosnia that was a UN action and it was done to stop genocide..

You have to go back 60 years to find a Democrat who started a war. See Democrats learned a lesson with Vietnam..

Yet every war since that put boots on the ground was started by Republicans and you still try to play "both sides are the same"..

There are clearly times when troops will be needed but the last several wars were all started by Republicans and always trumped up bullshit..

The only exception is maybe Afghanistan and Bush couldn't wait to pull troops from there to put into Iraq...

It's funny how you blame Democrats for everything but on the rare occasion you do blame Republicans for something you always make sure to include Democrats are to blame as well..

I didn't blame Democrats, I blamed American Presidents. So far Trump hasn't gone to war with anyone. Bush was an idiot who should never have been in any office of any importance. But Americans voted for him. Trump is no better except on his plans to limit migration and stop the flow of jobs out of America. Something the Democrats need to support. They won't because they rely on the ethnic vote and the money, both parties rely on, coming in from big business.

If I was an American, god forbid, I would vote for independents who don't take money from big business.

alzheimer patient, serbia did not take part in the bosnian war...not one single bullet was fired in serbia...not one single bomb fell on serbia during the bosnian war...the bosnian war was basically the entire world against the serbian minority in bosnia...IRL just another case of "saddams invisible WMD"...a fucking lie everybody keeps parroting like fucking idiots..."to stop the genocide" knee grow please, since when does a minority commit genocide and the majority just stands by? you made the minority fight back and then you pointed fingers...200.000 serbs ethnically cleansed by croats in 1 day = no problem but 8000 in srebrenica is genocide... fuck off LOL

Congress basically abdicating their power by creating the War Powers Act.

Only Congress is supposed to be able to declare war and wage war via the Constitution...BUT, they can also enact laws to give the President that ability.

That's why we've had so many fucking wars without actually declaring war ever since WW2.

Hell, even AFTER Pearl Harbor...FDR had to wait until Congress declared war (which they swiftly did) before he could send in the troops in WW2.

These days? Johnson sent in troops to fight the Vietnam War, Reagan sent troops pretty much to any little country he wanted to put in line, Bush Sr. fought the Gulf War, Clinton lobbed missiles at the Serbian conflict and the Iraqi's, Bush Jr. invaded Afghanistan AND Iraq, Obama used drone warfare to slaughter thousands.
And then Trump blew the hell up out of Syria while eating chocolate cake with the Chinese leader.

Whether you agree or disagree with any of those actions is irrelevant. CONGRESS is the problem here.

They wrote law to give away their own powers to the Executive Branch.

They need to repeal that shit and take responsibility again.
Quite simply they don't want to have to make ANY big decisions that could hurt them politically so they have been giving power to the Executive Branch for decades. :(

HUMMMM ... can't really disagree with that .....

It's about time for another war..

That's how Empires stay in power..

but who is going to pay for it?

US has never had higher debts and the situation will not become better.

here are a few indicators of today and they are from march and april numbers ( so the newest tariff disaster not yet included)

Retail Sales MoM APR expected +0.3 result: -0.2%
Retail Sales YoY APR expected +3.8 result: 3.1%
Retail Sales Ex Autos MoM APR expected +0.5 result: 0.1%
Manufacturing Production MoM APR expected +0.1 result: -0.5%US
Capacity Utilization APR expected 78.8 result 77.9%
Industrial Production YoY APR expected 2.8 result: 0.9%
Industrial Production MoM APR expected +0.1 result: -0.5%
Manufacturing Production YoY APR expected +1.2 result: -0.2%

lets see how this looks now after the new tariffs.
i am looking forward to the next big trade deficit.

nothing but lies and with lies you can´t pay a war.

:1orglaugh:1orglaugh:1orglaugh:1orglaugh


As the Trump administration draws up war plans against Iran over what it says are threats to US troops and interests, a senior British military official told reporters at the Pentagon on Tuesday that he saw no increased risk from Iran or allied militias in Iraq or Syria.

A few hours later, the US Central Command issued an unusual rebuke. The remarks from the British official — Major General Chris Ghika, who is also the deputy commander of the US-led coalition fighting the Islamic State — run “counter to the identified credible threats available to intelligence from US and allies regarding Iranian-backed forces in the region.”

But...
Congress has given POTUS the power to use the military for (i think it is) 90/120 days
then he must come back and ask for (and be granted) more time or bring it back.

That is enough time to fully get us into a war that has no end.
How do you stop what is started... It's not that easy. It is easier to prevent it in the first place.

The senate can reign this in before it starts. Nobody likes to tie the hands of POTUS but it is clear this time it needs to have some limitations even if they are not made public which would be advisable. Let those Senators speak for war publicly if they want it.

Since when has the right in the senate not been surprised just how far donald will go.

We are being hand feed data to make this acceptable in the public eyes that it almost reminds me of Iraq. And it has only just started.

Trump supporters said Trump was pulling out of all wars and that they are anti war.

Now Trump is sending ships to Iran , to start a war for no reason.

Trump supporters don't condem Trump starting a war with Iran. Why?

So if we shorten this up a a bit.. If Trump starts bombing Iran you will blame Congress?

Will Trump have any blame? Yes or No?

To me... they are both at fault

They way I see it, unless more politically convenient, they will spend the summer gearing up putting assets in place while they use bad data to convince us of why we are taking the actions, but the target date for action would be sometime in Nov/December.
Shorter daylight give us a tech advantage and cooler weather help the equipment.

Trump owns Trump's decisions & actions, nobody else.

Trump is at fault for starting war with Iran, nobody else.

Trump is at fault for starting the tariff war, nobody else.

But this can be prevented.

It's like watching a good veteran cop stand there and watch as a rookie starts mowing down people with a ak47

The clerk at the local liquor store likes me. She said if I wanted to take a few bottles of rum that she wouldn't say anything. I guess it's not stealing if the person watching the counter looks the other way right even if she down't own the store but is paid to watch it? How can I be to blame for taking something if she didn't say anything?

Congress is the Clerk and I'd be the president.. The store would be our country and of course the laws would be the Constitution..

I believe the problem is identifying all Trump supporters as being the same. In my experience (unscientific mind you), I find that about 1/3 of Trump supporters supported him in the election because he expressed a desire to cease the endless wars. I believe those are all or almost all now "former supporters."

2/3 of his base was clueless, now 100% of his base is clueless as the anti-war "wing" has been rapidly turning critical due to his about face.

I think we will see this expressed in polls if/when the war actually starts. Either way, Trump is vulnerable to an actual pacifist candidate (if there even could be such a thing these days in Merica)

I personally predict that this war's build up will not go along those lines. I believe we will first see a serious "incident" that will be bewildering, because it will be exactly counterproductive for Iran, but in any event, some tanker will be sunk (or pipeline exploded in Saudi Arabia, or something similar).

The USA will then take almost immediate "retaliatory" action (for their false flag attack) and fire ~200 Patriot missiles at Iranian infrastructure (designed to cripple Iran's ability to fuel its economy, as the oil blockade has not been working - with China, Iraq, India... still accepting oil).

The missile strikes will be responded to with a limited but serious counter attack - probably targeting oil infrastructure and shipping vehicles, but also maybe (or maybe alternatively) at the actual US fleet that shot the missiles.

From there, the war progresses in an unpredictable way. USA could start to stage massive troops with a build-up (justified by Iran's "aggression"); however, such a build up would be vulnerable to preemptive attack. Alternatively, the USA could (more likely would) begin a massive arial campaign while moving strategic forces into the region. All bets are off at that point.

1. "Donald" hasn't went too "far" on war at all. Not yet anyway.

2. I believe 100% that Congress should repeal the War Powers and any other acts that they themselves passed and take responsibility for declaring war as the Constitution empowers them to do it.

3. They won't.
Since they don't have term limits, House members and Senators are too scared to make any REAL decisions that might hurt them politically. They crave power for their lifetimes.
So they have handed off power to the Executive Branch.

It's total bullshit.
Spineless politician/bureaucrats.

Trump tweeted in 2011 and 2012 that Obama would start a war with Iran because his polls were down so that he'd be re-elected.

That's where Trump's mind is at; his polls are down the tariff war is wearing on people and he wants to get his poles up to be re-elected.

Trump doesn't realize that the majority of Americans know that he's a liar and he's not a good leader so going to war will make the vast majority of people very nervous with Trump as president

Also, the war will send gas prices skyrocketing (500%+ up). The result will be massive inflation across the board (everything needs to be shipped and delivered... oil prices largely determine the cost of goods).

Inflation means higher interest rates, which tanks the stock market... but that's a digression.

The economy blowing up will cost Trump the election; HOWEVER...

He may be thinking that higher oil prices are good. The fracking industry is heavily in debt, and they need oil in the $120/barrel range not to implode. Oil industry implosion will tank the economy and cost Trump the election.

So, if he's thinking about saving oil industry domestically, he may want this war believing it serves dual purpose of "creating jobs" in domestic oil, and that wars improve approval ratings.

In reality, high oil prices will tank his approval ratings and the economy.

Truth is, if I didn't object for a million other reasons, I'd say this war will be great for the world because it will be the end of Trump. But sadly, I think this war might end human life on earth, so not so good :/

Excellent points

Also, never underestimate the power of hacking and cheating the elections to put him in office another 4 years :2 cents:

Trump had Florida Governor signed a non-disclosure agreement disclosing what counties were successfully hacked in Florida during the election. despite the elections being successfully hacked Trump is dead zero to stop it from happening again. Why would he have the governor signed an NDA? I'll bet the reason is the counties that were hacked or counties that went disproportionately in favor of trump against polls and statistics :2 cents:

Americans will gobble it up ... just like Iraq ...

And if you speak against it, you will be labelled a terrorist , a muslim , an american-hater ... and so on ....

But this war, the USA will be all alone , by itself ... America First...

Dumb Americans ... :1orglaugh:1orglaugh:1orglaugh

Yes I remember well all of us who spoke out aginst the Iraq war and that the info was not legit were told we hate MERICA. The Robbies, the Vendildo, the Baddogs were these people who said this..

Now 10 years later when the war is unpopular they all claim, well I never really supported it anyway...

I wrote an essay in the lead up to the Iraq war in which I made the case that the war had already been won. Saddam had allowed UN weapon's inspectors into the country, and I said that the UN should send 5,000 such "inspectors" in. No shots fired, just have UN inspectors crawl all over the country, and Iraq would have been incapable of threatening anyone with WMD.

But of course, the war wasn't at all about WMD, and we all know what went down...

Wow, crockett claiming that I said anything to him about the war in Iraq.

Crockett...can you please find the posts where I told you that you hated "Merica" over the Iraq war?
No?

That's because you are human garbage and spend your homeless days in your van parked near wi-fi to sit on what used to be an adult business board and live out your delusions.

In other words: You're a liar...and fuck you. :)

Trumps 1st month in office he did a drone attack on Yemen. He then went on to put troops in Syria. This is of course while still having troops in Afghanistan and whatever is still in Iraq.

Now he wants to attack Iran..

Trump dindo nuffins!

That is the part where I said...
" they use bad data to convince us of why we are taking the actions"

This will ever so slightly ratchet up. Tit For Tat and reach a head and ultimatum.
How they do it is yet some other matter.

I do wonder what the ultimate goal really is. And if we could afford the aftermath.
NUKES?
Why would you give up the only real bargaining chip you have ?
Why would we expect that they would ?

I've never quite understood HOW the U.S. can tell other countries what they can and can't do.

It's not like it's a secret on how to make a nuke. Every country has scientists and they can all do it.

And to have the ONE country that actually USED an Atomic Bomb on men, women, and children trying to tell other countries that they aren't allowed to have them?

Well, the trick on Iran is that they signed a nuke non-proliferation treaty back when the Shaw ruled. And they had agreed to continue obligations of international law on the overthrow.

But yes, generally, we have no right. So they make and feed a story-line to get what they want.

Sometimes I do think most borders would remain secure if everyone had nukes.
But, we all fear the nut job eager to push that button.
And don't think the government does not help that fear along.

When Obama was in office it was always "Obama's" fault.. Now that Trump is in office its "the US"...

where ? which 200 K Serbs ? in 1940-1945 ?

Srebrenica, Sarajevo and few other are well known facts...Now please post some facts (from wikipedia, if you could), about "ethnic killing" of 200 k Serbs in 90s Yugoslav wars.

no 1995...read carefully what I said first...200K serbs in "storm" were ethnically cleansed and not one single bitch from the west...it was not ethnic cleansing at all :1orglaugh:1orglaugh:1orglaugh:1orglaugh:1orglaugh but 8K in srebrenica is genocide....but 1 million dead in iraq is not genocide :1orglaugh:1orglaugh:1orglaugh:1orglaugh

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Operation_Storm


the west is a joke and there will come a day when we arm the fuck up and forbid the west from even mentioning our name...good times ahead :thumbsup

Face it...
It's a snowball rolling downhill.
Unless you pressure your senator, it's coming.
You hold the keys to this car. But you have not the remote. And it's going to start remotely.

If the Saudi's and Israel want war, let them do it. We don't need in this one.
You can't afford it.

This is my fear. I worry that countries run by extremist would use that technology to either attack another country, or, more likely, get it into the hands of terrorist groups that would use it in some major city.

so you are worried other countries will do a "USA"?...yes...this fear is justified and it is only a matter of time before we all "USA" up :thumbsup:thumbsup:thumbsup

we are all accepting american culture...we will start with the nukes :thumbsup:thumbsup:thumbsup

I understand and I am the same way. But sometimes I do wonder...
They keep using the UN and NATO for reasons not intended and the same time now outsiders and donald trying to break the alliances.
It 'was' the 'glue' that stopped things from happening. Being tested.
Hopefully everyone will come out with a better understanding and strength when all is said and done.

No, not at all.

The US has dropped nukes and that is terrible, but we did it against a country we were actively at war with and we warned them beforehand. That is not dismissing it, just making statements for the record. I am worried that a country run by religious fanatics that think if they kill non-Muslims they will be rewarded with a harem of virgins in the afterlife will make a nuke, put it on a ship, sail it into a major US port and detonate it.