So the argument basically comes down to:

1. I care about my health and i care about other people so I am going to do whatever simple things I can do, like wearing a mask, in the 1% chance it helps.

2. I don't give a fuck about other people (just myself).

That about it folks?

I've long since (way before this plandemic) stopped caring about what other people choose to do or not. You do what you feel is best for you, and I'll do what I feel is best for me.

The biggest issue I have with people on the opposing side of this is the fact you want to push your views, choices, beliefs, etc onto me; whereas I am not (other than mocking people for their irrational fear).

No one is doing this for the better of everyone else, no one. I know that some of you like to believe this to be true, but it's just not. Self-preservation is always the number 1 driving force behind everything that has to do with our perceived ideas of safety.

There is nothing wrong with this, as I've previously stated.

And, if you have so many degrees related to virology and such, then you should know better, to be quite frank. Yet, "science" had to change the definition of herd immunity in order to push an untested and non-approved vaccine.

I don't have any degrees, but I have a highly analytical (and mechanical fwiw) mind and can study data, statistics, metrics, etc, and form my opinions from there. I also choose to listen to actual doctors and scientists who don't spend every waking minute in front of TV cameras and give me just the raw information without any political bullshit narratives attached.

For example, the TV doctors swear up and down there is zero chance of the mRNA 'vaccine' permanently attaching itself to your DNA, yet, actual studies are proving that not only is that a lie, but there is a high probability of such (reverse transcription, for example).

I swear though, if Fauci and the CDC went on TV and told the general public that eating your own shit would make you immune to covid-19, millions of people would be eating turds for dinner tonight.

And, for what it's worth, I've been against all of this nonsense from day 1, and regardless of which political party is, or was, in power.

Neither side of this gives 2 shits about other people.

If the government came along and said they would start executing people who refused to be 'vaccinated', those of you on that side would cheer.

Just because you feel that way does not mean the rest of us do.

That is:

A. Ridiculous
B. The "logic" you use to justify your selfish outlook. "Hey NO ONE blah blah blah" which absolves YOU, right?

In other words: if everyone is guilty than no one is innocent.

For me, I sincerely do NOT give a shit about whether or not I myself get Covid. I feel strong and healthy and, smoking weed, have an additional layer of protection. No, the ONLY people I care about getting Covid (inadvertently from ME) are my vulnerable mother, sister, aunt and uncles. You know, OTHER PEOPLE.

But hey, whatever lets you sleep at night, fine I guess.

Umm, I have a wife and 2 kids as well as family friends. No one that I surround myself with is any more worried about this virus than I am. The response to the virus was far worse than the virus itself, this is a fact.

This whole "granny killer!" mentality and trying to put yourselves into a "high horse" morality box while putting others into a "you're selfish!" box is utter nonsense, just so you know.

Lastly, if I were standing in a room with 99 other people, all of whom are "true believers" in this pandemic and started removing those who do dumb shit like text and drive, call for the deaths of people who voted for Trump, are pro-abortion, et al... then I'd be alone... so again, this whole theory of "I'm doing it for the safety of others!" is nonsense.

Have a good weekend.

The moral pretzel you tie yourself into is quite impressive I must say.

But let's be clear here: There is right, and there is wrong, and there is ignorance, and there is all kinds of shit going on here in the twisted minds of people.

So therefore, to be safe, I wear a mask. If you don't that's fine because I cannot do anything about your behavior. Just stay the fuck away from me, that's all. Problem solved. Let's focus more on the "social distancing" thing eh?

The mask is pointless too though. The size of the virus is smaller then a medical mask filters. The size of the influenza virus is slightly larger. Magically, we have gotten rid of influenza almost entirely - because "masks" as they claim. Masks do not do ANYTHING.

Social distancing yes, washing hands - absolutely (IMHO probably does the most) - but masks are not doing a damned thing and there are studies out there proving it.

Masks outdoors as we have to wear here in Poland until tomorrow is even worse.

But again, if you want to vaccinate, if you want to mask, that's cool - I just think people shouldnt force these ideals on others. My health is my concern, your health is your concern.

What about this: people who think like this are getting into hospital [they could most likely avoid it with any vaccine] and they put unnecessary pressure on the health care system so other people with totally different health issues [waiting for organ transplantation, etc] are dying because of people who think their health is their concern?
Not saying it's like this / we are going in this direction, but still... Also: I am aware of lots of alcoholics and cigarette smokers, fat people, etc are putting this avoidable pressure on the health care systems in every country for ages.. :pimp

I don't really see why people think this is a huge medical experiment - maybe the mRNS vaccines are so, but the 'regular' ones that work with good old methods: those have zero risks in my eyes [if you get them when you are tested and negative + healthy in all other aspects..]

I got vaccinated so my colleagues and family and environment feels safe, and I feel safer, and I have at least a little chance to enjoy a [limited?] summer festival in 2021... ...sigh...

In Holland last 10 years 50% of IC's disappeared cause to expensive. Worse working circumstances so people looked for better (paid) job. With a stopwatch measuring how it could be as efficient as possible. Till an outbreak like this happens. Than you know that it might be time to scale up 25-50% again. Or you blame the people who are sceptic about these vaccine and the need for it. What fits the poitician best, admitting his fault or blame others...

The mask in not perfect; it's just way better than nothing.

The mask reduces the distance the virus travels when you breath out and that helps slow the spread of the virus when people talk.

:2 cents:

Well since I spend most of my life inside my apartment/house bubble anyway, slaving away on the computer, it's easy for me to agree. But once OUTSIDE, amongst other people, then it's NOT about my or your health. It's about everyone's health.

Just Google "typhoid Mary" to get my point here. :)

Swole men dont need no mask or vaccine. We covid proof

The virus does not fly around by itself, it is in a droplet of moisture. A mask provides some protection from this droplet. But this is not something that affects just one person, it affects others around. But don't worry, the virus is not going away, it's going to be with us for a long, long time. Why, because there will always be a contingent that will not wear a mask or get a vaccine. Society will decide what you will be doing. If it gets bad enough, non-mask, no vaccine people will be shut out. That's just human nature. If you piss in someone's soup, you can expect a knock up the side of your head. We may be welcoming back Smallpox and Polio soon enough. Won't that be huge fun for the anti-vaxxers?

Healthy peeps can be hitted hard as well . . .

Then good luck building and belonging to such "society".

Good luck cheering for authoritarian technocratic regime. Thanks for showing your true colors btw. Decentralized bitcoin lover, lol

My society will be different. It will be conglomerate of free individuals.

You won't get money from my society.

And I don't give a fuck about your "society".

:2 cents::2 cents::2 cents::2 cents::2 cents::2 cents::2 cents::2 cents::2 cents::2 cents:

for those who planned it, it was just as expected.
all according to plan.

The resistance however gets stronger and bigger...with every week.

You are building your own society? Great! Go to some far-off wasteland and "be free" so WE can be free of asshats who think they are always the smartest person in the room. :)

its you who live in overpriced wasteland shithole called New York.

if you want to call names that much...

also, who is "WE" ?

you and your weed alter ego?

since when you became ambassador of we the people?

who are you? who nominated you?

Droplet is exactly why it is useless. Lands on mask and you suck it right through when breathing.

You didn't hear? I stole the Election and won in a landslide!
I'm the Joe Biden of porn.

never heard about, but ok :)

Egoism, you say?

Tell that to the tens, if not hundreds of millions of people worldwide whose lives were destroyed - on the mental and economic level by the "measures" like lockdowns, closures and curfews.
By measures that did not help in shit.
Only slowed down the inevitable.

And now think who the real egoist is...

But I doubt that you may see that from your mental and NY bubble.

And just like that, any serious discussion goes out the window.

Which was the whole objective, to try and slow the spread where the health care workers could manage.

"Slow the spread," "Flatten the curve" - either of those phrases sound familiar?

are you familiar with the phrase - "only the crazy person does the same and expects different results" ??? flattening the curve, LOL.

it is pointless to discuss it with you, as you have no clue.
"flattenting the curve" for 1 year????
it was supposed to be for 2 months in 2020.

And it did not help in anything.

Healthcare collapsed anyway.
BTW - you probably also don't realize it.
Most of the "additional" deaths in 2020 were not because of covid, but because of measures. People WITHOUT covid but still in serious condition were denied healthcare, as all was "directed" un proportionally for covid cases. In many european countries.
Just like people WITH cov2 detected ("accuracy" of pcr tests) were not treated for other, more serious conditions.

And this is only in healthcare field.

I did not expect that society is SUCH a sheep, but looking how not-stupid people are the same sheep....or worse...then I may imagine that...
scary AF

any proof that it was not?

because for any1 with working brain, it is all fishy AF..

not for sheep though

You're obviously emotionally invested in your fantasy.

I'll leave you to it.

such a good sheep you are :)

Yes but here's the thing: you are one lousy shepherd.

:2 cents:

:1orglaugh:1orglaugh:1orglaugh

They should do a 100 meter run test at all bars and restaurants. If you are not able to run 100 meters in 15 seconds, than your health is not good enough to beat Corona and are refused getting in. Than we have exactly the target group who ends up in hospital.

Yep, we had lots of laughs, those were good times.

Some friends and I still laugh about this 8am Genetics class we took our Senior year (this was a requirement for a Minor in Genetics I got with my first BS in Zoology). So, we were going out drinking nearly every night at this point, and frequently going to a neighboring school a half hour away - sometimes (often) crashing with this girl we knew who went there. So, we would wake up, jump in whoever's car, and race back to town making it to class just in time. We'd sit down, and no sooner had we sat down then the people around us would get up and find another place to sit. No doubt we were a bit fragrant: No showers, no change of clothes, with the smell of booze, sweat, and cigarette smoke just rolling off of us.

Good times.

I really liked Genetics, and for awhile considered pursuing a PhD.

Ultimately I did get a Masters, but in an unrelated discipline.

What about people in wheelchairs? Just trolling, I like your idea.

They must be able to get the 15 seconds :) But with a normal wheelchair 18 seconds must be a good number.

Few countries had an covid zero policy just covid controlled. The plan was really only to keep numbers down so the hospital system doesn't get swamped, and any mutations covid makes happen at a nice slow controlled pace.

There's clear evidence that vaccines are doing that, and better than expected. Once the venerable are vaccinated and anyone else who wants it.... let in and let it rip.... In the US face it who is your venerable now? and do you care if they get it? Biden says no.

The CDC knows that masks don't really do anything. India fines people who don't wear a mask and it certainly hasn't helped them. They are just doing this to incentivize people to get vaccinated.

Basically yea it does and..
#2 wins everytime, thats the way it's alway been.
Since when did everybody 'all of a sudden' start giving 2 shits for every one else haha? I find that hilarious and stupid af.

Sorry, not sorry...

Masking worked fine with early mild low viral load versions of covid like America has just cleared up. India had that well under control early last year as did Australia where I reside, but these new variants are just so so much more transmissible. Its N95 now or nothing and it seems like one stray molecule with covid virus on it and you have it.

Vaccines seem to be working ok against current strains as with antiviral cocktails, so hospital surges are unlikely in places with sufficient supply of either.

Keep in mind, Covid is spreading and mutating faster than ever out of the bubble we live in, its FAR from over, its just year one of something that's going to challenge us at least until we have a universal vaccine for it.

I'm visiting israel right now, %80 of the people (18+) are vaccinated (pfizer)...basically covid is over.

Mind the bombing, man . . .

This is how one sums up an argument to make themselves (or their side) look high and moral, and the other side like cruel, uncaring monsters.

It is an all or nothing, black or white, simplistic extreme view to justify having their position and making the others look bad.

This summary claims that people who agree with lock downs and masks "care" about others while people who oppose are scum of the earth.

No room for discussion, nuance or seeing the many facets of a situation. Just all good or all bad. It's how totalitarian societies have justified the mass killings in history by objectifying and dehumanizing the other side. Once they do that they feel better about persecuting that other side.

What they always do wrong is they willfully blind themselves to certain facts or complexities so that they can feel righteous about their position.

[BTW, lock down has already caused thousands of children to die in Africa due to malnutrition because supply chains have been disrupted and many more will die too. See the charity that's on the ground called Donor See. Also, the Tuberculosis epidemic will be getting worse with over 1.4 million deaths happening because of lack of treatment due to lock down. Also suicides and overdoses and missed hospital screenings have killed many and will kill many more due to lock down. Now you tell me which side is caring? Does your side even want to see any of what I just presented? There's a lot more suffering from lock downs that can fill pages ... not just what I wrote above.]

There is no moral pretzel, just facts. Self-preservation is the number 1 driving force behind everything we do, and it has nothing to do with any particular ideology.

The irony here though is, those of you who think masks keep you safe are the same ones getting in the faces of people who don't wear them. Every single time. Never once have I seen someone not wearing a mask getting into the faces of and confronting those who wear them.

Also, didn't you say you're not worried about the virus and you took the 'vaccine' to protect others? Why then, would you be concerned about me being close to you without a mask? Again, you took the 'vaccine' for everyone else' sake, right?

So...
- The CDC says not to wear masks, because they don't do anything.
- The CDC says to wear masks, and to 'trust the science'. Anyone that doesn't want to wear masks is labeled a conspiracy theorist.
- You should wear a mask, because it doesn't stop YOU from getting infected but stops you from infecting others.
- You can spread the virus if you are vaccinated, so you should still wear a mask.
- The CDC says you no longer have to wear a mask if you are vaccinated. Anyone that doesn't want to wear masks is labeled a conspiracy theorist.

Am I getting this right?

They only pretend to care about others when it affords them the opportunity to push their ideology. Everyone and everything not directly tied to such is irrelevant.

It's all a show, nothing more.

That about sums it up.

The only thing missing is that the people who love masks, the ones who have pointed to the CDC and "the science" all this time, suddenly stopped listening to the CDC when their science didn't align with what they wanted to hear anymore.

Other than that it's an accurate summation of the insanity that occurred in the last year.

Yup, pretty much sums it up.

Justification for selfishness is always so attractive. Good luck with that.

No, because you are Polish.
You do not get anything right kochanie.

Well, we are 3 weeks after the big Kings Day party in Holland where millions went outside and party. Result; some clusters, but that can be expected. Maybe they partied inside. But the hospital numbers and intensive care numbers are still going down and didn't go up cause of the parties. And government is opening up more and more.

How many people got infected outside?

Sure, just like a fence stops a little bit of the sand that gets through it when thrown... nevermind the fact the vast majority of the sand still made it through, so long as a tiny fraction didn't, right?