This is the point I am at. If I hear Senator Kerry himself start speaking about such things then I may pay attention. Other then that it is just all talk. Nothing is going to change.

gays abortion and stem cells got the christians to vote

Note to Americans - THIS is a perfect example of irony...

Note to all Democrats: Your hate and vitriol is killing your own party, alienating Republicans and moderate Democrats alike. You can deny it, but the elections say otherwise. By the way, I refer you to sperbonzo's above 3 posts.

cook my dinner bitch:321GFY

this thread needs some stupid bush pics :Graucho

:1orglaugh :thumbsup :thumbsup :thumbsup

If they believe in those things why would they vote for W? A man who spends like a drunken sailor is getting government way into peoples lives and avoided serving in Vietnam and has cut benefits for soldiers? Also we will see how you feel when they come down on porn and your selling cars for a living.

Sorry dude, I wish you were right, really.. .but you aren't.

I just moved to Cali from Raleigh NC... and it's funny, but people in Cali are so stunned that Bush won... Cali is *SO* liberal compared to the rest of the country it's crazy. Go campaign in the south, and see how many democrats you run into.

Sad but true.

Oh, well thats good,.. because Nader is such a well respected person... Did you watch his debate with the action figure versions of Bush and Kerry?

:1orglaugh

Interesting point - and I'm not being sarcastic. But I'd have to disagree. Hate and vitriol went in both directions this election, and worked for the Republicans.

The guy two doors down from me has a bumper sticker, with a picture of the US on it. It says "If Kerry wins - you lose."

Another bumper sticker I saw a few weeks ago while driving said "Liberals - the Destruction of America."

And I live in CALIFORNIA, for God's sake! :)

The numbers involved in this election (seperated by 3 percentage points) show there is a HUGE base of non neo-conservatives in the US. This includes some of the 'Red' states - Ohio for example, that was only lost by 130,000 votes.

My point being, IMO, the democrats lost by 'trying to be all things to all people'. Whereas the Republicans motivated their base. The Democrats only real, solid message (and I am a Democrat) was: Vote against Bush. It sure was mobilizing, based on numbers - but it wasn't enough.

Kerry didn't take a strong enough stand, IMO. Example - when he said, pretty categorically "I stand for a woman's right to choose" - I started to like him. Prior to that, I really just wanted Bush out of office. In contrast, when I saw him walking around as a duckhunter, it felt like pure political maneuvering, and seemed disengenous to me.

Just my :2 cents:

damn edit screwup...

Interesting ideas here. so you say that EVERYONE but the "jesus freaks" were against i1. This is similar to the idea that EVERYONE but the rednecks hate Bush. In the end, when more people disagree with you than agree with you; where do you, as a democrat, get off complaining? Are the christians not allowed to cast their vote? Is their vote not worth as much as yours in the democracy? What makes taxes a more important issue than morality? Is money the only important thing? In the end, the right found a galvanizing issue, showed the facts and that was it. Clinton wanted Kerry to support the gay marriage ban. Kerry said no. That is the FIRST that I've respected Kerry since day 1 and the first evidence that it wouldnt have been a disaster to vote for him.

You guys all make me laugh, I love it. I have a lot to say when it comes to politics, I listen to and watch a few different programs so I get a good mix of opinions. All I have to say about this one is....
http://img12.paintedover.com/uploads/12/w2.gif

For those of you wondering - no, I do not live on the western-west side, that is W2. W-squared. As in 4 MORE YEARS.

:helpme :)

Agree wholeheartedly on the second point, btw. The point of taking a stand.

Re: the first part - when it comes to government, taxes IS a more important issue than morality. The problem most libs have with morality is not morality as such. It is the attempt to LEGISLATE it. That's just not the goverments purview. So in that regard, yes, taxes is a more valid issue.

I think the Dems need to abandon this concept of trying to move to the center in order to capture the morality vote. Not saying they need to be far left. But there is a huge base to be reached on this issue of legislating morality.

Imagine a Democratic Candidate saying: "Let me come right out and say, I'm not going to work to overturn Roe vs. Wade. Any more than I'm going to let an athiest overturn your right to read the bible, or preach the word of God." Or my favorite, if Kerry had said "George Bush wants to take away a woman's right to choose!"

What would Bush do in response to that - deny it? And alienate the religious right? The key for the dems is to stop being wishy washy, and take a stand.

Well then tell me why Kerry lost...? Obviously your campaign and/or candidate wasn't strong ENOUGH to win the election, otherwise you would have. Never said it wasn't strong.

Excellent post. I've driven from New York to LA and LA to Monument Valley. On the trip you drive a few miles out of a major centre and it's like stepping into a different world. Poorly educated, narrow vision and bigotry is prevelant.

I don't know if you noticed or paid attention, but you find just as many people who fit that description in any major city as you do outside of it.

I've learned from personal experience that just because people who live outside Los Angeles, New York or Chicago tend to take things slower does not mean they are less intelligent.

In fact you could argue the point that the reverse is true. Now that I think more about it - your statment was perhaps the most narrow-minded and bigoted thng I have read all day. Congratulations.

yeah, much more educated than those brilliant people living in the czech republic.:1orglaugh http://kofa.ecn.cz/images/kozicky1b.jpg

quote:
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Originally posted by kaliboy2g
You honestly thought Kerry would win?


Apart from the two coasts, everyone in between mostly worries about family ethics/morals.

And Bush being conservitive he is, pleased them and won their vote.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------



Those Blue areas on the map represent the most dense areas of population i.e. NY, Chicago, LA. Red areas like Montana don't mean shit.

agreed! kerry won. i have proof!

'horrible' ?


I'd not use such a derrogative term really since the WORLD knows the US by the economy and media that comes from Cali and NY...

if it were left to Wyoming or Utah to 'represent' the US on a global level we'd be, uhm, how would you say a lot less of a 'force' on the planet

I think the US election was every bit as honest as the Ukrainian election.

:2 cents:

it was an honest election, Kerry was just a weak candidate. :2 cents:

Winning by 4 million votes in not the majority. He didnt win by a mandate , amandate is 80% of the vote . He won with a hahahaha hair over 50%. So we are not all this rightwing christian close minded scumbags, Michael and Fox news want you to believe we are. lol

The Democrats had already lost when they were too cowardly to speak out against the Iraq war - a war that virtually everyone outside of the US already knew was based on lies and made-up accusations. If an opposition is too lame to oppose and tries to be a bad copy people tend to choose the original.

Right-On :thumbsup