:2 cents::2 cents::2 cents:

This whole problem would have been avoided if they had shot the non-uniformed enemy combatants on sight like they have done in previous wars. Nevertheless Obama is doing the right thing detaining them so he should be applauded for that. Obviously it is very hypocritical of him considering all of his irresponsible campaign rhetoric but it is the right thing nonetheless.

this is an interesting part about all this and the overblown issue of "torture" - there is continually less and less incentive to capture someone on the battlefield and take them somewhere to be interrogated vs just putting a 9mm round through each knee cap and get what info you need and then putting a round in their head to avoid all the unpleasant headaches of actually taking them into custody.

Spoken like a true humanitarian.

Yeah, this whole "torture" thing is overblown. :1orglaugh:1orglaugh

How dare the U.S. follow international law and abide by the treaties they've signed? We should just shoot people who are surrendering from now on.

Damn you're a tool.

I think when everything under the sun is being called "torture" like sleep deprivation or water boarding or any other totally harmless technique to get information - then we place ourselves at a further disadvantage.

The whole issue of "torture" is retarded and Obama releasing Bush memos to incriminate the Administration knowing damn well that no one can address anything because its classified was pretty low.

And you know what? Fuck the law. The law, as always is being used against us. this is not an issue of law enforcement... This is a war. The law did nothing to prevent this shit from happening. The law did not allow Clinton to arrest Osama after many repeated attempts to get other governments to hand him over. The law doesn't slow people down who are ready to die for what they believe in. In war, there is a winner and loser. That is all. I would rather be on the winning side than watch another 9/11 happen because you got your way and placed the entire government and our troops and the public at a major disadvantage.

The problem is not how the administration deals with these people, the secret CIA interrogation facilities etc.. the problem is that they allowed the public to know that they are doing the shit they do.

The ACLU is fighting for the release of more pics showing prisoners being treated badly... it was obviously wrong and shouldn't have happened.. however, the ACLU is doing it at the expense of US and NATO soldiers and all of the innocent people who will die as a direct result of placing a nice, new recruiting tool in the hands of Al Queda. The "Law" isn't always "whats right". This is something new that "the law" didn't foresee. and just as your messiah found out once he started getting top level briefings... its not so black and white and its not such an easy problem to deal with.

The biggest problem of the USA is that we love to go around preaching democracy and freedom and we should just shut the fuck up, take these people out and tell the world "hey, sometimes you gotta do what you gotta do"

You show me Al Queda and other terrorists/terrorist groups adhering to "the law" and i'll happily support the notion that we should do the same.

Anybody notice what happened to the Brits while they played by "The Rules" and the Colonists did whatever the fuck they wanted to try and ensure military wins?

Didn't work out so well for the Brits, did it? Feels like the good ol US of A is playing by The Rules a little too much and has forgotten that often times you have to play dirty to come out on the right side of the battle.

Just saw on the news that the President is reinstating trial by military tribunal for the detainees at GITMO. He had previously stopped the trials by military tribunal for review. They will begin again with certain changes in the trial procedures.

In other news the House passed a bill giving the administration 80 plus billion in supplemental funding to persue the conflict in Afganistan and Iraq. The Senate is working on its own supplemental bill for the same purpose.

Fuck the law? Well there you have it, your philosophy in a nutshell.

We don't mistreat prisoners, not just because it's the moral thing to do, but because mistreating prisoners puts our troops at risk.

We don't blow holes in the kneecaps of people who surrender. You know why? Because if we do, then nobody will surrender anymore, they'll fight to the death, and that will cost more American lives.

You are obviously an idiot when it comes to these matters, and you should stop talking about them because you're embarrassing yourself.

This macho cowboy bullshit of yours was the problem with the last President, and now we've got a fuck of a big mess to clean up because of it. How about you cowboys stay the fuck on the ranch from now on and we'll let the "elitist Harvard liberal snobs" deal with this shit from now on....mmmkay?

obviously i meant within the context of fighting terrorism.

Yeah right. Islamic fundamentalists would never hurt a captured US soldier. You're totally correct in your typical, feel good, out of touch with reality, liberal comment.

I'm happy we can now expect radical fundamentalists to stop cutting off the heads of soldiers and security and civilians and aid workers and truck drivers, since apparently we just cause them to do it.

uhmm.. .they are not only "fighting to the death" - they consider it their duty to do so.... so again, you further demonstrate how totally out of touch with REALITY you are on this issue.

how many Guantanamo Bay detainees were released and recaptured on the battlefield or became suicide bombers or carried out terrorist attacks?


Really? Bush made 9/11 happen? I'm pretty sure that was simply one of a series of terrorist attacks against the USA ... you might have quickly forgotten that since the bulk of them happened during a democratic presidency

and try to keep in mind that treating terrorism as a law enforcement issue is what enabled these people to continue attacking and planning attacks.

How about this... how about you wake the fuck up, get a grip on reality and simply admit that this issue is very complex, there is no easy answer and current law is not adequately equipped to deal with this ... AND OBAMA LIED TO YOU

50 years in jail

here's what "respecting the law" got the world dipshit.....

when i say "fuck the law" i mean there are times when a team of men in black need to be dispatched to make an accident happen for some people.

of all your retarded arguments... how many lives has "respecting the law" cost the world by trying to arrest Osama Bin Laden? if someone would have just snuck up on him and put a bullet in his head when that was clearly the best option.. we wouldn't be fighting two wars right now.


------------------------


On 16 March 1998, Libya issued the first official international Interpol arrest warrant against Bin Laden and three other people for killing two German citizens in Libya on 10 March 1994, one of which is thought to have been a German counter-intelligence officer. Bin Laden is still wanted by the Libyan government.

Osama bin Laden was first indicted by the United States on 8 June 1998, when a grand jury indicted Osama bin Laden on charges of killing five Americans and two Indians in the 14 November 1995 truck bombing of a US-operated Saudi National Guard training center in Riyadh.

Bin Laden was charged with "conspiracy to attack defense utilities of the United States" and prosecutors further charged that bin Laden is the head of the terrorist organization called al Qaeda, and that he was a major financial backer of Islamic fighters worldwide.

Bin Laden denied involvement but praised the attack. On November 4, 1998, Osama bin Laden was indicted by a Federal Grand Jury in the United States District Court for the Southern District of New York, on charges of Murder of US Nationals Outside the United States, Conspiracy to Murder US Nationals Outside the United States, and Attacks on a Federal Facility Resulting in Death for his alleged role in the 1998 United States embassy bombings in Kenya and Tanzania. The evidence against bin Laden included courtroom testimony by former Al Qaeda members and satellite phone records.

Bin Laden became the 456th person listed on the Federal Bureau of Investigation's Ten Most Wanted Fugitives list, when he was added to the list on 7 June 1999, following his indictment along with others for capital crimes in the 1998 embassy attacks. Attempts at assassination and requests for the extradition of bin Laden from the Taliban of Afghanistan were met with failure prior to the bombing of Afghanistan in October 2001.[

In 1999, US President Bill Clinton convinced the United Nations to impose sanctions against Afghanistan in an attempt to force the Taliban to extradite him. Years later, on 10 October 2001, bin Laden appeared as well on the initial list of the top 22 FBI Most Wanted Terrorists, which was released to the public by the President of the United States George W. Bush, in direct response to the attacks of 9/11, but which was again based on the indictment for the 1998 embassy attack. Bin Laden was among a group of thirteen fugitive terrorists wanted on that latter list for questioning about the 1998 embassy bombings. Bin Laden remains the only fugitive ever to be listed on both FBI fugitive lists.

Despite the multiple indictments listed above and multiple requests, the Taliban refused to extradict Osama Bin Laden. It wasn't until after the bombing of Afghanistan began in October 2001 that the Taliban finally did offer to turn over Osama bin Laden to a third-party country for trial, in return for the US ending the bombing and providing evidence that Osama bin Laden was involved in the 9/11 attacks. This offer was rejected by George W Bush stating that this was no longer negotiable with Bush responding that "There's no need to discuss innocence or guilt. We know he's guilty."

Fuck off dickhead. You're way out of your depth.

I could point you to volumes that show just how wrong you are, but it would only be a waste of my time because wouldn't read the evidence anyways. You think you know everything.....what with your years of law enforcement, intelligence, and military experience.

Yes I was in the military, and the first thing they taught us when dealing with prisoners, is that you have to follow the Geneva convention. Not just because it's the law, but because if you don't you put our prisoners at risk.

Now of course I guess you think the U.S. Army is a bunch of liberal sissies now too, since they don't agree with you.

If captured SS soldiers were entitled to their rights under the Geneva convention, then so are captured Al Qaeda. It's not about who they are, it's about who we are, you stupid fuck.

This is my last post in this thread, don't bother replying, I won't be back to read it.

I can show you volumes that say the boogey man is real. So what? I got bad news for you... its news you still refuse to accept. You have an enemy. This enemy not only wants YOU dead.. he wants your wife, your kids, your parents and everyone you know dead.

And guess what? he's willing to die to make sure that happens. What do your "volumes" of books say about this?

Oh.. nothing?

You're right. I agree with you. Radical fundamentalists haven't been chopping off anyone's heads. They haven't been blowing up markets full of people. They haven't been attacking women and children. They are all about respecting the law and the Geneva Conventions.

I bet US and NATO soldiers get captured by the Taliban or Al Queda and just feel a nice sense of relief that they have nothing to worry about. The Taliban rounds US/NATO soldiers up and just passes out cotton candy and teddy bears.

What you were told as an enlisted grunt working in the mail room, has nothing to do with fighting Islamic extremism in the year 2009.

Times have changed. who we are... are simplistic, idealistic pussies who let these people keep building and planning and training until they could pull off a pretty spectacular terrorist attack. Thats who we are.

The events leading up to 9/11 and the attempts at arresting Bin Laden are rock solid proof of that. That following the law not only put people at risk... it caused the death of countless people across the globe.

The Geneva Conventions are predicated on a couple simple principles... that both sides of the war want to live and that both sides are going to abide by it. You can't treat this situation as if this is two uniformed armies fighting each other for a bridge outside of Munich or some shit.

Sorry to make you have a melt down.

Hopefully, you'll be lucky enough to get captured by the Taliban one day so you can be treated like gold and be fed grapes and have your little wiener sucked by virgins all day long.

and kinda weird that you are the one always talking about name calling and it didn't take long for you to head down that path.

thanks for finally seeing things my way.

welcome to the dark side. you'll love it here!!

Obama's been reading Brian Faulkner's biography or something? Operation Demetrius redux.

What if other countries decide to start snatching US citizens and holding them indefinitely without a trial for "complicated reasons" and for doing "stupid shit"?

What will America say then? Based on the logic that I'm seeing, Americans wouldn't have rights under the constitutions of other countries.

I'm really not surprised by this decision. I really didn't expect anything different from Obama.

The Bush policy was I'm an asshole and a fuck-up and I don't give a fuck what you think. I'm going to do whatever the hell I want.

The Obama policy is I care about you and want to bring you change and peace and human rights and health care and give you the ability to fly. But then I'm really going to fuck everything up anyways, and you will spend half the time staring at my tie.

being intimately involved with terrorist organizations, terrorist acts or being captured on a battlefield is hardly "stupid shit"


and its worth pointing out that a lot of the detainees were released long ago... and without getting into the undeniable facts that many were recaptured or killed on the battlefield or went on to plan and carry out terrorist acts and kill US/NATO troops... and many are so dangerous that their own countries won't take them back in spite of trying to give them back, i think its pretty safe to say, their not holding a few hapless hot dog vendors from the ball park.