Were that true, there would be no such thing as "rights", the word
would have no meaning. I also wonder where you think Americans
get their rights from, because neither the constitution nor any other
major government document even purports to grant you any rights.
Let's think about that for say, 60 seconds.

The first amendment protects the right to free speech, correct?
It says that the government may not make a law "abridging the freedom of speech",
to quote it exactly.
In general, the majority, through the government, can make any law they want,
but rights are the exception - what makes something a "right" is that the majority
may not violate the rights of the minority. So even if the majority doesn't like your
site, you can still make it because of your right to free speech.
Do we agree so far?

I assume we agree that as the constitution states, government is barred from
infringing your human rights. Generally too, other men may not infringe your
human rights. Clearly anything granted to you by the government can be taken
away by the government. Anything granted by men can be taken away by men.
But men may not take away your rights. Therefore your human rights were not
given to you by men, but are part of your humaness. You have certain rights
because you are human, not because you were born in a certain place. Now the
Chinese governtment may indeed violate the human rights of some of it's people,
but those are indeed VIOLATIONS of their human rights, and are recognized as
such internationally. China cannot simply refuse to grant human rights and make
it OK. Why? Because human rights don't come from the government, but are
part of the nature of being human.

Governments can of course grant benefits, such as social security, and since it
granted those privileges choose NOT to grant them. If the government also granted
rights, and could therefore choose to NOT grant them, then a right would be the
same thing as a privilege and the word "right" would have no meaning.

The framers expressed the idea that certain rights are yours by virtue of your being
human by saying "We hold these truths to be self-evident, all men are created equal,
that they are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable Rights".
Don't get hung up on the word "Creator", as it means something different to just
about everyone who reads it. You'll probably interpret it to mean that all of the framers
were thinking of some fairy tale old man in the sky with a long beard, which you think
is silly because it is. That's not actually what any of them had in mind, mostly people
would draw a picture of an old man as a METAPHOR, but the important thing is that
they said all men are ENDOWED with certain rights upon their creation, whether that
creation be by birth or other means is irrelevant. What's relevant is that the the
founding documents do not have a single sentence granting you any rights. Rather,
the constitution and other documents only recognize the "self evident" truth that you
already have these rights, and prohibit the government from infringing on the your rights.

I've laid out my reasoning pretty clearly, so if you think I missed anything important
and got the wrong conclusion please tell me exactly where I'm wrong. If my analysis
is wrong, I'd also be very interested to know what you think your right to free speech
is and where you think it comes from. The plain language of the Bill of Rights is that
it does not grant you any new rights, but simply bars the government from infringing
rights that it assumes you already had.

Don't forget about free or almost free college education, day care, after school care for kids that is covered in Canada in Europe. Plus 4 weeks of paid vacation, and national pension plan for all. Add the cost of that plus cost of private health insurance and USA tax rate is closer to 70% or more. 2009 World's 20 Best Places To Live - none of US cities made it due to low quality of life, but plenty of Canadian, European and Australian places - coincidentally all with national health insurance.

simply pointing out in a humorous manner, that you don't seem to know what a "right" is. healthcare in the US is not a "right" in all cases until the law says it is.

Honolulu made the list, I think.

Excellent question. So what is the answer?

Nope, not in top 20. But 3 Canadian cities are there. Way to go :-) Hope more people see Michael Moore's "Sicko" It is an eye opening movie.

Rights are not "granted" because granting them presumes they can be revoked, many of the rights enumerated by our constitution are now recognized merely as privileges bestowed on us by our government. These rights have been summarily revised by those who believe they can exchange their rights for security.

While our healthcare system is in fact broken, it is not a right, you never have any "right" to take money out of someone elses pocket and redistribute it in any way.

the answer lies not in more government and fewer rights, the answer lies in more rights and less government.

Laws do not "grant" rights they recognize them and prevent them from being abridged. Laws grant privileges

Michael Moore's Sicko was pretty scary.

That would be around 500$-750$ around here to be hospitalised for 5 days, and the fees (out of your own pocket) for the MRI scans and stuff...

but,

Tax charges on employment are in excess of 50% in Belgium (55.4%), Germany Hungary and France. In contrast, the US recorded 29.1% acording to OECD.

While I like some parts of the Canadian healthcare system, the average wait times are nothing short of scary. In the US, I could have the above treatment all done in one week, while it would take me almost 4 months to get that done in Canada. The median wait time for a ct scan across Canada is 5 weeks and the median wait time for a mri across Canada is 10 weeks. The median time for a patient to see a specialist after being referred by a general doctor has soared to almost 9 weeks. I won't even get started on dental care, where many Canadians living in outlying areas don't even have access to a dentist.

"The lack of investment in implementing medical technologies into the Canadian health care system acts as a bottleneck for Canadians in receiving treatment. This underinvestment keeps costs down, as nothing saves more money than not spending it, but these savings come at the price to patients of serious delays in receiving advanced medical treatment. Once Canadians make it to the specialist, the outcomes are similar to those in the U.S. for many conditions, but not for those conditions (such as cancer) for which early treatment is an essential element in obtaining substantially better outcomes."

works out to be about $648 per year

One week? Just wow! I had some dental work done, 1 week to see a regular doctor, 9 weeks to see a specialist, and another 5 weeks or so to do the procedure... impressive!

You are so damn right especially with NOTHING is Free :disgust

gesh
i didnt mean to start an international gfy war

was just venting my frustrations...

I can't believe someone would take that much time to type out an argument attempting to explain that water isn't wet

Your right to free speech is in the constitution (to use your example). have you heard of the Bill of Rights? you've just made the weirdest, most abstract and bizarre explanation of something extremely obvious. when you get arrested you have rights... i.e. Miranda Rights, laid out in the Miranda Act... these are things guaranteed to you by law. and how does it go??? .. "You have the right to remain silent"... "you have the right to an attorney".... etc etc.

The list is endless. there is no point in explaining it to someone who is going to argue that the moon is made of cotton candy.

You cant just declare something a "right". get it? you can't just say "i have this right" or "its a basic human right" and that makes it fact.

Actually the constitution doesn't grant you any rights, it recognizes that rights are inalienable

BIG DIFFERENCE

Fair question: what is a better deal in your opinion - 55% tax rate that covers health insurance, college education,child care,pension, paid vacation OR 29% but you pay for above out of your own packet (or get none if one cannot afford it). What do you say?

Um some of you miss the point that if you have health cover over there your insurance company is still going to try their hardest to get out of having to pay your expenses. The US has the most corrupt and poorly run 'health' system in the developed world, and you pay infinitely more per person for healtcare than the rest of the world too.

Sure our free health system may not be perfect but I would sure as hell take it over the disaster you guys seem to enjoy.

NHS kicks ass over here in the UK - nice and FRRRRRRREEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEE

The real problem with the US health care system isn't that there are a lot of people uninsured. If you don't have insurance you can walk into any public hospital or urgent care center and they will take care of you no questions asked. You may never pay for it and if not they pass the cost on to those that do pay or have insurance.

The real problem comes when people have insurance and that insurance ends up denying the claim. You then have two choices. Pay a lot to get a lawyer and fight them, or just take it. If you don't have much money you have limited options when it comes to fighting.

A friend of mine has a 6 year old that had to have some surgery done on her teeth. The total bill was $8,000. The insurance only paid $1500. They claim that since the problem she had came from a cavity which is a preventable thing that they (the insurance company) don't have to pay for it.

So now he can either pay the other $6500 or spend who knows how much to get a lawyer and hope to successfully fight it. He didn't know it wouldn't be covered until they refused the claim. There are tons and tons of these stories where people get sick only to find out their insurance doesn't cover them or the insurance companies are flat out refusing to pay.

If you are fine and healthy and everything is good and you just go to the doctor 1-2 times a year for checkups and get an occasional prescription here and there insurance is not a problem. If you actually get sick or hurt, it could be a very surprising day to find out exactly what is covered and not.

I feel the two things this country needs to do in order to survive is deal with our energy problem and curb the cost of health care. The cost of health care is rising faster than the average wage and more and more people every year are driven into bankruptcy/poverty because they got sick or hurt. I'm not saying we have to have socialized medicine, but if we don't do something about the cost of this we will find ourselves in an ugly way.

What you do have to consider is that if you get sick, then you are not making money. If you are not making money you will not be able to pay your health insurance. If you get sick for a longer period, don't expect your health insurance to stay at $3000 / year neither, trust me the rate will go up.

An insurance company is not using "purchasing power", they are simply removing the bad apples (ie the sick people)
Governments offering health insurance, have to insure everybody, rich or poor. Obviously the rich will pay for it.

Don't misunderstand me thinking I believe that everybody should chip in for everybody so we can all live in a great equal society. I moved myself to a tax paradise, knowing if I make no money I get no help, I'll have no "fall backs" and if I can't support myself, I'll be kicked out of the country. I don't see why I should be forced to pay for someone that is unwilling to support them self and I don't expect the same for myself neither, but don't be fooled by a insurance company that say they got "purchasing power" vs a government that can monopolize the entire sector if they wanted.

I lived in Canada for 2 years, paid full Canadian taxes, medical etc.. Now back in the States, I spend MORE money here in Taxes with health care added in, than a Canadian does. By far, without question, easily.... Hell, if you are sick, your out of pocket costs in America are more than all medical costs (ie taxes) in Canada.

My elbow got busted and my girl at the time had female issues... and we went to the doctor with someone. We waited NO time at all.. We went in, filled out papers, sat down for a minute, and got called in.

My sister fell on ice in Texas, 3 hour wait.. Asthma here, turned down and sent to a different hospital... that's what America thinks about it's vets... yet Canada took me in!

I won't even get in the costs of Kristin, she costs more than most of your houses cost.

I would take the medical system Canada has over overs, 100 times over, any day of the week....

Our priorities are so screwed up. We could easily have all the healthcare we need for such a small fraction of 21st Century Human Civilization's total resources that to not provide the best care to all is unforgivable. This should come before everything else. Nobody should have a private jet until everyone has medicine.

Beyond life-or-death issues, let capitalism squeeze all the efficiency it can out of a (well-regulated) marketplace. But healthcare is not just another marketplace. Don't believe the bugaboos that scientists will stop trying to find cures for diseases simply because insurance and drug companies are no longer making obscene profits. Those smart talented people didn't go into the field for fame or fortune, they did so because maybe their mom died of something awful and they are going to war against it. Stop turning their life's devotion to helping humanity into an argument that keeps their work away from people who need it.

Most actual research is already subsidized by various governments and universities anyway. These middlemen companies are just parasites buying up patents and hording discoveries for profit. They spend far more on advertising and administration than anything related to research.

Americans have been lied to their entire lives by insurance-backed organizations who have no conscience when it comes to making up numbers and spreading false information in very official looking reports and through paid-for public officials. The very idea that putting a for-profit industry between patients and doctors makes things cheaper is so counter-intuitive and absurd it should should set off anyone's bullshit detector, but they just have to muddy the waters, create enough doubt and confusion, to avoid a political majority large enough to challenge their scheme.

Always remember you're a member of a species that will shoot someone for a pair of shoes. Then it's easy to accept that better-dressed villains will twist the truth for greater profit. Though to be fair, most of the insurance scam supporters are probably so indoctrinated they just don't know they're spreading misinformation, like FOX-News audiences who argue Saddam had something to do with 9/11.