Originally Posted by BestXXXPorn (Post 16724971)

I haven't posted here in quite a while and I'm not really returning (not that anyone would miss me, lol). Someone pointed me to this post so I'm just here to tip my hat to harvey.

...forget about what you know as "adult business". The good news is adult business is facing the challenge of turning really PRO.

That's it, right there, everyone here should read that at least 40 fucking times! Beat it into your brain, understand it, talk to mainstream business owners and get some advice.

Amateur Night at the Apollo is over folks put your big boy pants on and learn to play the game ;)

Best of luck to everyone that learns to play the new game! I'll see you on the playing field :)

Originally Posted by harvey (Post 16724652)

Use interactivity. Involve your customers.

Originally Posted by Jay-Rock (Post 16725256)

There are some really fucking ugly girls that should not be in porn right now. There should be a higher rate for the hot ones and the ugly ones should do triple anal for $600 Most of the top girls here at AVN are sevens at best. We need some 10s to shoot.

Originally Posted by Robbie (Post 16726231)

Jay, as an affiliate of a few hundred programs for over a decade I can tell you that you aren't thinking correctly on what sells to the public.

The amazing thing about the internet is that men are now free to follow their true desires. And the shocking part is that they aren't all interested in "10's"

It's easier to make a sale on an Asian Granny or a fat "ugly" girl than it is to sell a membershp to a site with what we all think of as a "10"

The human mind and sexuality in general is a lot more complex than a lot of folks think. And when given the anonyminity of the internet to purchase the porn that satisfies their deepest fantasies..well, suddenly tranny stuff sells like crazy, BBW sells like hotcakes, old ladies and grannies are super hot. And the least selling stuff? Well, that would be the cute teen stuff or the glamorous "10" babe stuff.

Amateur and "ugly" girls sell like a motherfucker.


Now don't get me wrong...beautiful women will of course sell too. BUT they have to have a great personality that shines and they have to be able to fuck with passion on camera.

Not trying to say you're wrong...but, as a guy who has sold enough memberships for every major and small company in this business...I have a pretty good handle on what sells and what is harder to sell. And those glamorous "10's" are the girls we want to put on our arm when we go out in public. But those girls you might find "ugly" seem to be the ones that guys secretly fantasize about fucking...or at least the guys who spend money do.

Originally Posted by Jay-Rock (Post 16726733)

I have tried to shoot for programs that sell mediocre girls and though that may work for some they don't pay much for content. I have to get girls approved to the companies I shoot for and they expect hot girls or I have no shoot. On the other hand when a girl isn't up to par their sales go way down compared to the galleries that have the hotties. Im not a dime a dozen content shooter and my clients are very picky. I would love to shoot for a client that accepts average girls and pays a decent rate. At this point I haven't found it so I need MORE HOT GIRLS PLEASE. I do agree with you on your points though man though most of it doesnt apply to me when Im trying to make a decent living shooting content. I have tried to shoot for some companies that aren't as picky but they never want to pay a decent rate. In most cases these types of companies think they can get content for pennies on the dollar.

Originally Posted by Robbie (Post 16726737)

I'm telling you without a doubt that there are amateur girls who outsell any of the "hot girls" you can shoot every day of the week.

I know what you're saying about the companies that hire you to shoot what they think will sell. And a lot of it does sell.

Originally Posted by Robbie (Post 16726737)

Nobody said anything about "average" girls. I'm talking niche here. And I'm telling you without a doubt that there are amateur girls who outsell any of the "hot girls" you can shoot every day of the week.

On the other hand a really good looking woman who also has personality and kicks ass in bed is golden.

I know what you're saying about the companies that hire you to shoot what they think will sell. And a lot of it does sell. But most of those big companies are owned by guys who have no connection to their biz. You know what I'm saying. They delegate everything and know very little about what the average person likes in porn. Thus all the generic porn with the same boring "hot" girls that I can throw traffic at all day long and see zero sales. :(

Anyway, good discussion. Hope things keep going well for you, and if I could make a suggestion to you at all it would be to fast track your own paysites with your own exclusive content as soon as you are financially able to and stop shooting for other companies.

I know it's quick money, but with things the way they are with a lot of these companies going down fast...you know what I'm saying. :)

Originally Posted by Barefootsies (Post 16716041)

You need to truly understand a fetish to shoot fetish. That is, if you actually want it to convert and generate some sales long term.

Anyone can attempt to shoot fetish, and I see more and more of them every year. You might as well lite your money on fire. I can look at most of their preview images and videos alone and within a few seconds see it is not shot by, and for, fetish folk. It is shot for profit only.

Some will simply never learn that fetish people are very picky, and if you can't shoot it right. We know it. We will buy from the mom and pops over corporate almost any day of the week, and twice on Sunday. Simply because the mom and pops and smaller studios provide TRUE fetish material.

Pornstars, or polished productions, are secondary concerns to fetish people. It is nice, we do not mind seeing that stuff. However, it is not a primary consideration on purchasing. Some BROgrams will simply never understand this.

Which is why they fail.

:2 cents:

Originally Posted by digitaldivas (Post 16727670)

I think it's funny, they will never listen though...

Originally Posted by Jay-Rock (Post 16726733)

I have tried to shoot for programs that sell mediocre girls and aren't too picky about quality though that may work for some they don't pay much for content. I have to get girls approved to the companies I shoot for and they expect hot girls or I have no shoot. When a girl isn't up to par their sales go way down compared to the galleries that have the hotties. Im not a dime a dozen content shooter and my clients are very picky. I would love to shoot for a client that accepts average girls and pays a decent rate. At this point I haven't found it so I need MORE HOT GIRLS PLEASE. I do agree with you on your points though man though most of it doesnt apply to me when Im trying to make a decent living shooting content. I have tried to shoot for some companies that aren't as picky but they never want to pay a decent rate. In most cases these types of companies think they can get content for pennies on the dollar.

Originally Posted by Jay-Rock (Post 16726733)

I have tried to shoot for programs that sell mediocre girls and aren't too picky about quality though that may work for some they don't pay much for content. I have to get girls approved to the companies I shoot for and they expect hot girls or I have no shoot. When a girl isn't up to par their sales go way down compared to the galleries that have the hotties. Im not a dime a dozen content shooter and my clients are very picky. I would love to shoot for a client that accepts average girls and pays a decent rate. At this point I haven't found it so I need MORE HOT GIRLS PLEASE. I do agree with you on your points though man though most of it doesnt apply to me when Im trying to make a decent living shooting content. I have tried to shoot for some companies that aren't as picky but they never want to pay a decent rate. In most cases these types of companies think they can get content for pennies on the dollar.

Originally Posted by Bman (Post 16728593)

Yep thats the way it goes...and it is frustrating too. Honestly the best long term for any shooter is to shoot and own all his content. I would recomend this to anybody shoot way less, with only the girls you approve of and sell it the way you want. Its a fucking bitch finacially in the beginning but it does two things 1 creates a long term finacial cash flow based on residuals and 2 raises the rates across the board for shooting.

the reason we are in this mess is cause shoots use to be $2500, then 1 guy said I will do it for $2k and then another for $1500 and so on...

Doing this stuff for years both Adult and Mainstream the only guys that have gotten ahead are the ones who only owned their own content...thats it!

And Jay your defiantely at the caliber to own your own.

Originally Posted by EscortBiz (Post 16702271)

Here is the problem with asking this question now (Jan 2 2009).

Most people are emotional sissy boys, so because its Jan 2 the start of a new year, they have to yell and scream all this motivational hope garbage and cant see the facts at the moment.

If you would of asked this same very question Dec 20 2009 you would of gotten more of an honest answer from people.

Having said that, I agree with you 100% and anyone who disagrees is a total fool.

Signups are down across the board, I don?t care what you offer, they are down, mainstream products adult products, paysites etc, im diversified enough to know facts, not the silly fiction most here shit out of their mouth.

Am I hopeful, well yeah, but so are the several million people who buy lotto every day. You can?t just sit back and relax because you are hopeful, when Moses and the Israelites arrived to the red sea and he had the Egyptians chasing after them, the Israelites where hoping that the sea will split in half. God tells Moses to raise his stick over the oceans and the Sea will split. The question is did god really need Moses to lift his stick for him to split the sea? The message is, being hopeful is cool but you must make an effort too.

Unfortunately it?s a double whammy, not just is business down because of the overall economy, fraud and free porn its also down because of lack of innovation, and I can credit that to the lazy bums all over the place, there is opportunity out there, ideas, money etc. but to many lazy fucking dicks who will have to be wall mart greeters at age 75 because they are currently lazy pieces of shit.

Sites are completely closing shop, and I don?t blame them, this is a business not a charity organization, if you can?t make money move on.

You will have to really understand the surfer, how he/she behaves in order to sell him/her anything, adult or non adult. But again making changes = taking action and that is going against the incredible laziness that is going around.

My goal for this year is simple, shake off every lazy fucker around me, these people have negative attitudes and are full of excuses and will kill your business, symptoms of a lazy fucker? Well you throw out an idea that involves him doing something and he throws back 100 reasons why it?s not a good idea or why it?s best to do it next week Friday, but here is the kicker, if you would of told him you are hiring someone to do that same concept for you he would of told you wow def. sounds great. It?s kill or be killed, these people are your enemies, so move on.

Let?s go over a few real examples and discuss the laws of progression.

AOL provides dial up service ? At one point they had over 35 Million subscribers, they where taking in about a billion dollars a month just off that. In 1998 They where urged to start looking into buying a cable provider so they can start the process of providing high speed services to their clients. They where on CNBC claiming that since most people only use it for email and don?t spend much time online the cost of $60 a month (back then on avg) won?t be justified. That was pure laziness talking. Today we all know what aol has, jack shit, they had 35 million subscribers and they could have been the largest high speed internet provider today. Verizon now is working on fios and without a doubt in 5 years from now everyone will be surfing using fiber and wifi will be as common as water regardless where you are.

Blockbuster ? founded in 1985, by far the place where several million people rent DVD?s a day, in 1998 they where asked over and over about if they feel netflix will have an effect on their business. They replied by saying that part of the movie watching experience is going to a stroe and renting the movie. Well this year alone that attitude can be credited to the closures of 980 blockbuster stores, and netflix has over 8 million people using that service. AGAIN the root cause of this stupidity is laziness, because making change means taking action. In turn blockbuster will be a company off the map within a few years.

Barnes and Noble ? by far they could have been the amazon of the online world, they should have been the ones to innovate a product like kindle, heck they where around since 1920! But the laziness and the constant telling themselves that nah the consumer is happy and amazon wont make it is why they will soon join borders and start closing store after store.

I have made tons of mistakes by not being realistic with myself of where certain things are going, and by listening to others and not going with my gut feelings on things. I am making this post not to insult anyone but rather to share my point of view. But once I started changing my mindset god helped and things started to work out.

Everything progresses.

Pigeons ? telegrams ? faxes ? email

Office phone where a secretary answers and manually plugs in a line to get you transferred ? regular phone systems ? automated pbx ? speech recognition ivr?s

Dialup ? DSL ? Cable ? Fiber

Cell phone large and bulky ? Smaller ? Analog ? Digital ? all the way to now complex tiny computer in your hand touch screen (remember those palms with a pen?)

Records ? Cassettes ? CD ? MP3?s

BBS ? AOL / Yahoo Chat ? Dating Sites ? Social Networking Sites / Twitter World

I can go on and on, to think that this won?t continue is stupid. Figure out where the progress is going and start working within that right now. Stop asking mommy and the girlfriend what they think of your idea.

Not being lazy goes against human nature, that?s why 99% of this planet is poor. Go against the grain, maybe live like Geroge Kastanza for a day and do everything the opposite you would usually do.

There is no doubt the next stage in porn will be 3D quality jerk off material, notice I said jerkoff material, not 20-40 minute flicks but rather 5 minute loop quality to the point jerk off stuff.

Dating and social networking are about to change too and so will every industry.

Walt Disney had a interesting way of thinking, when his engineers presented him with something he?s always say ?let?s plus it?, that?s why even some of the stuff they produced in the 50?s is still considered advanced even by today?s standards.

Here is a tip, if you have say an idea about a new concept for a site, ask yourself the following ?If a site like that would have been around already, what would you do to beat them?? Take your answer and make that your project.

Thinking what I wrote is junk is ok, but not reading it because it?s too long further will prove the laziness inside.

Happy New Year to all and I only wish the best to everyone, Im happy when I see people happy and making shit loads of money!

Originally Posted by fmltube (Post 16728936)

Way less on professional, huge increase in amateur/homemade. 2010 may be the year that the customers learn they no longer need to pay for professionally produced content and embrace the community factor of sharing their content with others for the love of content and not the profit of content. It's coming sooner than most think.

Originally Posted by Jay-Rock (Post 16727510)

Its about who pays a decent rate for content and shooting ugly amateur girls for programs usually means working for peanuts.

Originally Posted by Robbie (Post 16731917)

Yep, and the fucked up thing is...those same companies paying peanuts for "ugly" amateur girls are turning around and making great money on those girls!

That's why I was saying that you should start concentrating on shooting them yourself for your own site. Especially if you can shoot real amateur girls that have never shot before and never will again. That's what the people want to see. And to make it better...it won't be all over the tubes and torrents because the girls will be unknowns.

I'm telling you Jay, if I weren't doing the Claudia-Marie site and having the sucess I'm having with it...I would do EXACTLY what I'm advising you to do.

You're in L.A., you have your gear to shoot...I'd say take the money that any company will pay for those same old girls that get shot over and over by everybody...and invest it in tons of cheap shoots of you nailing amateur bitches. Hell, just do it POV. If you do it the right way and carefully set up each shoot with a little interview, and ONLY shoot real amateurs (no Sara Jays or Puma Swedes allowed) you can start creating an empire that will make more money than the guys paying you now to shoot content for them make.

Originally Posted by Robbie (Post 16731917)

Yep, and the fucked up thing is...those same companies paying peanuts for "ugly" amateur girls are turning around and making great money on those girls!

That's why I was saying that you should start concentrating on shooting them yourself for your own site. Especially if you can shoot real amateur girls that have never shot before and never will again. That's what the people want to see. And to make it better...it won't be all over the tubes and torrents because the girls will be unknowns.

I'm telling you Jay, if I weren't doing the Claudia-Marie site and having the sucess I'm having with it...I would do EXACTLY what I'm advising you to do.

You're in L.A., you have your gear to shoot...I'd say take the money that any company will pay for those same old girls that get shot over and over by everybody...and invest it in tons of cheap shoots of you nailing amateur bitches. Hell, just do it POV. If you do it the right way and carefully set up each shoot with a little interview, and ONLY shoot real amateurs (no Sara Jays or Puma Swedes allowed) you can start creating an empire that will make more money than the guys paying you now to shoot content for them make.

Originally Posted by Robbie (Post 16731917)

Yep, and the fucked up thing is...those same companies paying peanuts for "ugly" amateur girls are turning around and making great money on those girls!

That's why I was saying that you should start concentrating on shooting them yourself for your own site. Especially if you can shoot real amateur girls that have never shot before and never will again. That's what the people want to see. And to make it better...it won't be all over the tubes and torrents because the girls will be unknowns.

I'm telling you Jay, if I weren't doing the Claudia-Marie site and having the sucess I'm having with it...I would do EXACTLY what I'm advising you to do.

You're in L.A., you have your gear to shoot...I'd say take the money that any company will pay for those same old girls that get shot over and over by everybody...and invest it in tons of cheap shoots of you nailing amateur bitches. Hell, just do it POV. If you do it the right way and carefully set up each shoot with a little interview, and ONLY shoot real amateurs (no Sara Jays or Puma Swedes allowed) you can start creating an empire that will make more money than the guys paying you now to shoot content for them make.

Originally Posted by Jay-Rock (Post 16725256)

I have shot more content in 2009 then ever. I am shooting for more companies than ever as well. I have also seen quite a few programs come and go in my short time in this business. They are just like the fresh models that come to LA you never know how long they will last or if they will get shot out. One thing is for sure, you have to hustle to make money in this business and if you are lazy you will eventually fail.

I dont think raising models prices is such a bad thing if it raises the quality of the models either. There are some really fucking ugly girls that should not be in porn right now. There should be a higher rate for the hot ones and the ugly ones should do triple anal for $600 Most of the top girls here at AVN are sevens at best. We need some 10s to shoot.

Originally Posted by Biggy (Post 16730839)

I agree with the agents, I think production will skyrocket in 2010 due to one large catalyst: the invention of the time machine. Alas, we will be able to go back in time to better days and production will skyrocket once again!

All I am going to say is the production side of the business is heavily out of touch with the industry and heavily flawed.

Originally Posted by harvey (Post 16721503)

oh and btw, I think this is the time to try the female market. Of course I wouldn't recommend this to anyone before getting your shit straight, but right now it's an untapped market with a potential to make a killing ($$$ speaking). Of course, you'll need to think out of the box and as I said in the previous post, wise up. But the first program that makes a good adult site for females will cash in like mad. The sad part is that besides knowing what to do, I foresee some big investment in this kind of site

Originally Posted by Robbie (Post 16731917)

Especially if you can shoot real amateur girls that have never shot before and never will again. That's what the people want to see. And to make it better...it won't be all over the tubes and torrents because the girls will be unknowns.

Originally Posted by Porno Dan (Post 16734712)

I was the AEE show and AVN awards last night.

I first went to the AAE show in 1994 and have gone every since except for 2001.

I was shocked how much the show has changed in the last year. There was an increase in the number of companies that were selling goods i.e. bed sheets, clothes, "medical" marijuana stuff, etc...

There were less than 20 production companies that had booths and very few girls signing; however it seemed that the attendance was about the same as last year.

The people in this thread who think that will be more production should have talked to the companies at the show.

Originally Posted by Porno Dan (Post 16734712)

I was the AEE show and AVN awards last night.

I first went to the AAE show in 1994 and have gone every since except for 2001.

I was shocked how much the show has changed in the last year. There was an increase in the number of companies that were selling goods i.e. bed sheets, clothes, "medical" marijuana stuff, etc...

There were less than 20 production companies that had booths and very few girls signing; however it seemed that the attendance was about the same as last year.

The people in this thread who think that will be more production should have talked to the companies at the show.

Originally Posted by Porno Dan (Post 16734712)

There were less than 20 production companies that had booths and very few girls signing; however it seemed that the attendance was about the same as last year.

Originally Posted by DirtyWhiteBoy (Post 16735045)

When I read there were a lot of people there, I thought that was a good thing until I read this. I guess it was all just fans. I'm not surprised.

Originally Posted by DirtyWhiteBoy (Post 16735045)

When I read there were a lot of people there, I thought that was a good thing until I read this. I guess it was all just fans. I'm not surprised.

If there were less than 20 production companies there, then that speaks for itself.

Without even thinking about it for a second, I can guess who 7 or 8 of them were.

Evil Angel
Jules Jordan
Digital Playground
Hustler
Pure Play
IVD
Brazzers

Who else?

Originally Posted by Jay-Rock (Post 16735003)

Being a fish in a smaller pond isn't always a bad thing. I really got to thinking at the convention when I saw alot of the movies I have produced on my own being distributed by a monster company and heavily advertised. If only I had the money to do it myself my name would be on the boxcover.

Originally Posted by DirtyWhiteBoy (Post 16735045)

When I read there were a lot of people there, I thought that was a good thing until I read this. I guess it was all just fans. I'm not surprised.

If there were less than 20 production companies there, then that speaks for itself.

Without even thinking about it for a second, I can guess who 7 or 8 of them were.

Evil Angel
Jules Jordan
Digital Playground
Hustler
Pure Play
IVD
Brazzers

Who else?

Originally Posted by Bman (Post 16735431)

Call up the distributor yourself...

It's an investment but probably the best one you will ever do.

Originally Posted by Jay-Rock (Post 16736099)

My goal this year is to shoot my own series and start my own production line. :thumbsup

Originally Posted by amacontent (Post 16735042)

Exactly, show now is all about products and strippers. RIP AVN soon Im sure.

Originally Posted by Robbie (Post 16743351)

Dan you were a business monster at AEE and Internext.

I tried and tried to divert you but you were focused.

I was like: "Hey Dan! I've got an ounce of blow and a dozen whores...let's party!"

And then Dan would reply: "No thank you Robbie, I have a meeting with a distributor and afterwards a company meeting to discuss forward ranging projects"

No matter what I did...Dan couldn't be deterred from business.

Then finally a couple of days ago he comes up to me all excited and says: "Hey Robbie! I need to talk to you!"

So I'm thinking: "Finally! NOW we are gonna party!"

But nope, just more business! So now we need to schedule Claudia-Marie to kick over to L.A. for Big Titty Tuesday one week.

Porno Dan = Mr. Business

Originally Posted by Porno Dan (Post 17122574)

Here we are a little more than four months into the year and production is down...way down.

The biggest agency is doing 15 or less bookings a day and most of the smaller ones are doing 5 or less, yet the most agents still won't budge on their inflated rates.

Girls tell us all the time they are willing to take less to do scene, but their agents don't even give them the otpion.

Originally Posted by Porno Dan (Post 17122574)

Here we are a little more than four months into the year and production is down...way down.

The biggest agency is doing 15 or less bookings a day and most of the smaller ones are doing 5 or less, yet the most agents still won't budge on their inflated rates.

Girls tell us all the time they are willing to take less to do scene, but their agents don't even give them the otpion.

Originally Posted by GetSCORECash (Post 17122595)

We just started to shoot more because we need too. In general we have cut our production by 75% from two years ago.

Originally Posted by Jim_Gunn (Post 17122925)

Just a counterpoint for what it is worth- Production may be down in LA, but it's pretty busy in Florida. I hear about almost everything going on every week with all the various players and there are a lot of shoots going on almost every day of different types. I personally have never been busier shooting beautiful new girls from all over the country between the ages of 18 years up to 49 years old. Also spoke to one of the bigger agents in porn recently who I know for a long time and he told me that his agency's bookings were more than fifteen per day on each coast during the busiest weeks. And of course that doesn't take into acount the other agents, pimps, informal referrals and companies & models booking their own shoots, which are many.

Originally Posted by Jim_Gunn (Post 17122925)

Just a counterpoint for what it is worth- Production may be down in LA, but it's pretty busy in Florida. I hear about almost everything going on every week with all the various players and there are a lot of shoots going on almost every day of different types. I personally have never been busier shooting beautiful new girls from all over the country between the ages of 18 years up to 49 years old. Also spoke to one of the bigger agents in porn recently who I know for a long time and he told me that his agency's bookings were more than fifteen per day on each coast during the busiest weeks. And of course that doesn't take into acount the other agents, pimps, informal referrals and companies & models booking their own shoots, which are many.