What do Democratic values have to do with healthcare?

Are we talking medicine or healthcare? And who would spend the money and take the time to go to medical school if they were not going to be rewarded handsomely for it?

I asked him to find me a reference on wikipedia..



Amen.

http://www.nhscareers.nhs.uk/details...lt.aspx?Id=553

also see http://www.statistics.gov.uk/cci/nugget.asp?id=285
"The full-time occupations with the highest earnings in 2009 were ‘Health professionals', (median pay of full-time employees of £1,031 a week), followed by ‘Corporate managers’ (£745) and ‘Science and technology professionals’ (£698). The lowest paid of all full-time employees were those in ‘Sales occupations’, at £278 a week. "

right now on "NightLine" channel 7 they are talking about medicare fraud....its in the billions a year.

You are 100% correct. Chances are the bill will only end up bogging the system up even more. Now it is run by people who are only worried about making a profit. When you are involved with anything government run then you are talking about people who only want to keep their job and the more work they can create for themselves the safer their job is so it is not in their interests to actually try to streamline the system.

If the government really wanted to make it fair they would allow people to act on their own and import drugs from other countries that sell them for significantly lower prices. If I run a business building a product I will go out on the free market and find the best parts vendor I can. If that means buying the parts I use in my product from Canada, or China or whomever, so be it. Citizens should be given that same free market ability. I can either pay $300 for the medicine from my local pharmacy or I can order it online and get the exact same thing for $90.

The reason this hasn't happened yet is because most of the people out there have some kind of health insurance that covers the cost of prescriptions so they don't really care how much they cost as long as they only have to pay a small co-pay. They also don't care how much the hospital bill is and how much they were overcharged for some things because their insurance is paying for it.

If the government doesn't want to regulate how much the pharmaceutical companies increase their profit margins on the drugs they sell, fine. But they should afford me the same courtesy and free market availability that they do any business in this country. They can't allow these companies to charge 300% more here for the same drugs and force me to pay that by not letting me use the free market to find a better price.

Also, much of the research these companies do is funded by the government. The government funded labs develop these drugs and then sell them to pharm companies. Yes, the pharm companies do develop their own stuff, but it is not as much as most people would think.

Yep. My mom actually just got a check from her insurance company because they "accidentally" over-billed some things to medicare which caused my mom to have a higher co-pay. They were audited and forced to return some of her money.

Kane, I appreciate how you look at everything from an objective perspective.

I can often see both sides of an argument. With the current health care bill I see some good stuff in it, and I see some bad stuff in it. Like you, I'm just very wary of the government running anything because everything they touch ends up bloated, corrupt and not working nearly as well as it could.

One of the things that really gets me fired up is politicians going on TV and talking about the free market and how we have to let things fail if they will fail and let the free market run its course then forcing me to pay 300% more for my medicine because I don't get to use the free market and import it.

A good reason to change the system.

What few here don't understand is a National Health scheme is cheaper than a system run by private insurance companies. You end up paying less, getting the care and having the safety net of cover if anything goes wrong with your job situation.

I can see where that would be true. Unfortunately that is NOT what the "healthcare reform bill" is set up to do. What we are about to have here is every person in the U.S. being FORCED to buy insurance from private companies and then still having our taxes raised on top of that! I'd much rather go with singlepay health care system. But there was no way in hell that was gonna happen here. Too much money for the insurance, hospitals, and pharmaceuticals at stake. They are going to drain every penny that they can get from U.S. citizens.

The insurance companies pay for nothing. Those insured pay for everything through their premiums.

Which is why they are spending so much to keep the status quo.

I admit I do not know the workings of the health care bill in the US. I'm talking about a State run health care insurance scheme over a private companies run one. If what you say is right I understand your objections to it.

Your population is healthy, you have a better workforce. You treat people earlier and prevent future serious illness you save long term. Universal healthcare is not only something all governments should provide, but is also a wise investment in your people.

Being a business owner I tend to adopt more conservative stances on things, but I also see the need for government run education, protection, basic services and also ... healthcare. Its a no brainer.

Indeed he was........ so that is why we nailed that fucking worthless hippie rabble rouser to a fucking tree. :2 cents:

minte, you're trying to have a rational, educated discussion with those that are neither.
Most of the "free healthcare" advocates on this board are 20somethings with no life experience and failures. both who firmly believe the profit obama.

This post is exactly why this legislation is seriously flawed. There is no disagreement that the healthcare system needs an overhaul.

Why should US citizens get a better deal in Mexico and Canada for pharmacy items. How about tort reform, allowing group policy holders to shop for health insurance on a national level. There is a list of common sense things that could be done to get the process started. Yet none of it seems to matter to the current administration. They want to tax us for 10 years to pay for 6 years of coverage. And at the end of 10 years,then what?

qft......

You cannot say it's free. It's paid for a different way and without insurance companies, drug companies and hospitals more interested in the bottom line getting a huge slice of the cake. The US is the most expensive place, I have visited, for health care. You're getting ripped off and some of you seem to like it that way.

Great post, the only flaw is you don't end up with companies making billions of pounds out of those forced to pay.

That's a good point,thanks for the reminder.

Jobs bill getting signed today, and this first healthcare bill will pass on Sunday.

How are those other stimulus bills working out for us?

Yeah, suppose to create 250,000 jobs? How many new claims did they have last week?

The FIRST healthcare bill, then they can go in there and take complete control of everything, one step at a time

LOL@BFT3K. It's been announced that the CBO has not come out with any kind of definite numbers, it's just the Democrats touting "estimates".

Btw, you have to have a strong economy to create ANY jobs, but I don't think Obama's stupid ass knows that. Bernanke certainly doesn't.

Keep your hate hat on buddy - you have 7 more years of this coming at you!

Yeah, we were better off with the 750,000 jobs lost per month at the end of the Bush debacle. Good point!

From your mouth to God's ears!

As opposed to:

http://keithhennessey.com/2009/04/06...ion-has-saved/


I can just hear BFT3k's stupid ass saying "but it was Bush's fault!!"

Maybe you should take a look at the new electoral college projections. Looks like a lot of liberal states are losing votes while a lot of conservative states are gaining. Obama will be a one term president.


http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_...election,_2012

And maybe even more when the census is done. People are fleeing failing progressive states.

And when Obama loses next election..... The Republicans will have control of your health care.... Why on earth would you want that?! God knows I fucking dont want Republicans anywhere near my doctor!

I can't understand why you would want any politician near your doctor???

Point being that after a year as president, Obama has done nothing to help the unemployed ecept extend benifits


I thought you didn't want God in politics?

You think that qualifies as "VERY well paid?" Why would someone become a doctor when they can make more slinging porn?

I'm certain McCain/Palin would have fixed all of our problems by now.

Just a silly saying... you know that.

I guess that's why Clinton didn't get a second term... a majority of Republicans in power prevented that from happening.

Oh, wait a second....

Clinton didn't destroy our economy or had approval ratings as low as Obama, I don't think anybody had. But way to prove that you have no grasp on logic :)

So you are ok with people like Bush running your health care? I know I for one am not ok with that.

Some people on this board say you are a great asset. I tell them they are off by 2 letters.



Only kidding... no one thinks you're an asset.

McCain didn't win, Obama did and has done nothing but push the healthcare bill, some counties in California have unemployment rates above 20% and that JACK ASS is more concerned about healthcare. People that can't work, can't get healthcare, they have no money, pretty simple.

So lets focus on who is fucking us right now

one second later, Clinton got a second term, but lost the house and the senate and things got done.

Just like nobody thinks you are intelligent, or contribute anything to this forum :)