Damian, please check your icq.

Fiddy one solutions? lol

By the way...the people taking content are already taking it from the members area. So they already paid. My beef is with the torrents and illegit tubes that post it for free to draw massive traffic to monetize it. THEY are the thieves.
I am merely trying to keep my stuff off of their sites.

EDIT: And please answer your icq. I'm trying to set you up with a user/pass I already refunded your money so I don't want to use that user/pass for you

Well then, if it's not a technology thing - because, honestly, I agree with DamianJ that if what you are doing inside CM's mem area is tech-based then that's a sellable product that could change the face of Adult overnight.

But if what you're saying - without really saying it - is that you're using a 'Macgiver-like' low-tech solution that consists of clever editing and watermarking then that's great! That means the cleverer ones on here can 'figure it out' and try this or that....how about a giant blue bunny that flashes onscreen for a second or two every fifteen seconds? Oh wait, that would ruin the fantasy. LOL

So what I'm saying is if it's not some special script you yourself have (and no one else does, and you're not about to share/sell) then why not just use a Flash player, watermark the fuck out of the clips, insert an IP addy or username every minute or so and be done with it?

I feel like jilted lover. Damian....ANSWER YOUR ICQ

I have to jump in the shower and head to the gym. I refunded your money and I want to make you a new user/pass for free. I also want you to show me how you were able to download that stream so I can figure out how to stop that method to if possible.

No it wouldn't. I have spoken to many paysite owners who are living off of old rebills. They are all worried that putting in streaming might piss off their current customers and with new sales so slow they can't afford to do that.

I had the same trepidation when I first did it. It was scary. So no, the majority of sites and especially the bigger ones with a big member base of rebills aren't gonna take a chance of losing anybody.

I've cum already :1orglaugh

Can you watermark the flv if it is just downloaded without going through the player though?

Ok, Damian.

I just figured out what you THOUGHT you did.

We had an old movie as an flv in a temp folder that we were working on a player a long time ago. You didn't download the movie that was actually streaming. Matter of fact I just deleted that old temp folder because I had forgotten it was even there.

So you didn't really download the stream. Not that I want you to, and I'm not "challenging" anybody either. I'm sure there are folks on here plenty smart enough to do so. But I'd like to keep it from happening on a massive scale

And by the way...you downloaded a trailer. Which is what we had in that temp folder. Check it for yourself.

Well, since I do things the way i know how to do them - in other words, probably the wrong way - I watermark the vids before I convert them to Flash. Check out PeabodyCash and see the Fellucia Blow or MILF Mia clips I have on there. All FLVs (hosted) and all watermarked.

And Robbie, two things:

1. As trepidacious as I am you've convinced me to go for it anyway. Rebills are 'steady' - not down or up - and I've just started A/B testing this week. So I can always A/B test the new streaming mem area, send out an email before I make the switch asking members their thoughts, insert a poll on the site for mems to vote, etc. OR I could do nothing and continue to bitch and moan like many others do.
2. At the gym, breathe. Always b-r-e-a-t-h-e. :)

:1orglaugh:1orglaugh:1orglaugh:1orglaugh

I was thinking about the IP address and username marking. Always like to learn stuff :)

Fiddy one Robbie business threads.

Ahhh! Yes, I like learning things, too, like how to properly read a question. :)

I don't rightly no, that's the short answer, but I am thinking either a PHP solution (somehow) or a watermarking tool integrated into the stream/Flash player (and it's prolly not 'Flash', either). Guesses, tho.

You should stick to magic imo... No offense but you are fairly clueless on this particular subject by your posts.

I get so tired of the "parrots" repeating what they heard on some pirate site. The reason you don't know how Robbie, and I and a few others are stopping piracy is for a reason. We all keep it hush. I've been doing the same thing Robbie is doing for over 2 years now... infact I am the one that came up with the idea and concept. Infact I have numerous other methods that deter piracy without affecting your actual paying consumers experience. Stuff I haven't shared with Robbie yet either. Most of which are techniques to be used, and not tech that needs to be implemented.

Sticky, was it your code I seen on another other forum that was inserting the ummm let's just say 'digital fingerprints' on the fly? Can I ask if you guys went further with it as it was pretty impressive stuff even in those early stages of development from what I remember of it. I understand if you don't want to talk much about it, just thought it was pretty badass :)

Yeah it's a shame some of the really good posts get lost, might be actually worthy to check new threads by poster involved instead of the thread name

Few bring a thought and even less bring experience into their posts

No that is QuantumX I believe and it is another method. People get their heads stuck in the "box" too much.. Too many see it as black and white, there are many gray areas.

could i get a temp pass to poke around for a second? :)

I just have my doubts as to how effective this can really be. even with a streaming server, it's still fairly easy to rip a stream.

actually watermarking the video would require encoding the video in real time, which is far too computationally expensive, unless you were doing something similar to that whole "smooth streaming" concept and chopping the vid into chunks and watermarkin only random small portions.

i think its a great idea though even if not a 100% fullproof solution.

Lol. I am in England. I went out for the night salsa dancing. :)

As now you know as we are chatting on icq.

Hi, I can cure cancer. I am just not telling anyone. You know, you don't want EVERYONE finding out I can cure cancer. Cos then everyone would want to be cured and that would be such an effort.

:)

Only cure those who promise not to start Tubes. :D

Please show me a site you have a video where you think I cannot record it on my screen.

No offense, but if you really think you can serve a video locally on my mac and stop me recording it, the you are fairly clueless on this particular subject.

NOW we are onto something.

That would piss me off no end as a punter.

"Hi we think you might upload this so we are literally BRANDING you like a common thief".

Imagine if mainstream tried that with Avatar!

Also, it's a piece of piss to strip out. People are now managing to strip our bugs from TV show logos so obfuscating an ip and user name would be a piece of piss. Or just editing it out. If they really want the content, they would view this cat and mouse as a game. And guess what, the content owners will always, always lose.

Piracy is bad. Treating your legitimate customers as potential thieves from the gate is bad too.

This is a major, major fear right here - and one that I assume Robbie faced when he was feeling trepidation at first even attempting streaming (not to speak for you Robbie, sir - or is that Sir Robbie?).

I worry about that - treating my members as thieves - but since I know SOME of them ARE thieves (cause it's the unwatermarked vids I see out there; the watermarked ones I view as advertising) so it kinda has to be done. There are locks on doors for the 15% (my estimate) of actual thieves out there who would try to break in, not the 85% of 'good citizens' who would never think of even testing to see if the door was unlocked in the first place. Just sayin'. :)

I don't treat our members as potential thieves. They aren't. They are CM's fans.

But the whole surfer forum mentality of sites like pornbb tricks them into being pawns. They are shown an illusion of a forum where buddies are encouraged to share their collection of porn vids amongst each other.

Of course they don't know that the truth is that the owner of that site is using them to generate traffic for his pre-paid ad spots.

And I do my part to educate my members. I talk to them all the time as I personally do the support for CM's site. And when they have asked me about such things I explain to them the entire business model of a site like pornbb and of course the file sharing sites, torrents, and illegit tubes.

And they are always shocked. And our members send me links to CM's stuff whenever they see it out there on those kinds of sites. Our members do NOT feel like thieves. They feel like they are part of a community.

Who do you think helped Robbie initially get on the right track? lol And its already been tried to get my videos on my paysites I have this protection enabled on. No standard methods work, and YOU do not understand how RTMPE works at all, it is not the same as a standard flash stream. So right off the bat I know that YOU do not know what you are speaking of.

Incase you missed the last 2 or 3 years I have been preaching content protection and was initially laughed at... then less laughed... then big programs started hitting me up about how they can protect their product.... then only a few clueless people still keep parroting the same crap. ANYTHING that ANYONE wants they can get if they want it bad enough. IT comes down to this... Is the juice worth the squeeze? I've already had my doubters, and proved them wrong, so for me to waste anytime showing someone that uses a MAC anything is worthless... lol.. Steve Jobs is going to turn off porn on macs anyways, so you better go buy a nice properly priced PC before its too late.. :winkwink:

You are about a year or two behind on this whole topic... Catch up with the rest of us, and we'll talk more. :1orglaugh

I hear and appreciate what you are saying and didn't mean to imply that I view my Members as thieves. LOL What I mean is that some members - at least some - have scraped the content and put it 'out there' on torrent sites and such. It's the only way UN-watermarked videos can appear anywhere outside the member's area (since I don't post non-watermarked vids anywhere).

So what I'm saying is I don't want the members who aren't doing this - the 98.7% or something - I don't want them to FEEL like I'm treating them as thieves. LOL if that males sense. "Hey, I used to be able to download the vids, now..." And yes, I plan on giving them a downloadable (highly watermarked and lower quality) version, too.

Just saying it's a concern for some paysites, I would imagine, pissing off their members while trying to protect their shit.

It's all in the presentation of what you're doing. I don't have a big announcement on the site saying "I'm taking preventative measures to keep my stuff from being stolen"

You know what I mean. When I go to my favorite music store to look at new guitars and amplifiers, the staff is super friendly and I enjoy my experience there. Nobody accuses me of possibly wanting to steal anything. And yet, if I go back there at midnight...they have the place locked with an alarm system. I don't get offended by that.

And I don't take it to mean that they consider me a thief.

Most people on the internet these days are well aware of content theft. I'm sure that 99% of my members are smart enough to know what's going on in the world. And since not ONE of them has written me complaining, I'm gonna have to go with actual real world experience over what some people might theorize to you what MIGHT happen.

Reality is I do all the support for CM's site. Hell, I do EVERYTHING. lol And the only emails I get from our members are requests and ideas for scenes. They are FANS. And when they find one of her scenes out there they report it to me. They are anti-thieves if anything. Once you open their eyes to what's happening, they not only don't feel like I'm insinuating that they would steal...they also help me in stopping our stuff from being out there. :)

That is for sure.

thepiratebay still down :1orglaugh

The fact that CM members are fans first is what convinces me to try this with Fellucia Blow, since she has a very loyal fan base that rebills great. I, too, do everything. LOL So i read the emails, and the requests. I think you're right, about fans not being offended, and I think it's probably easier to 'make the switch' with sites like CM or FB because their members ARE 'fans' as opposed to guys who just want to beat it. I would think mega-sites or multi-girl sites would face angrier members maybe.

:thumbsup Thumbs up for Robbie's solution. It is all about keeping your content exclusive!

That is my feeling too. When you have a website full of the same LA models that every other site has and no interaction...it's a different beast than what we have going on. Matter of fact I'm not sure what the answer is for those kind of mega-sites. I know I wouldn't want to own one of them at this point. I'm guessing that the only thing that's going to save them now that x-sells aren't gonna be as profitable as before, will be when the new international treaty is signed by all the countries and puts an end to this stealing.

I performed a search for content with Claudia Marie.
As benchmark I used Samantha 38G. She is a curvy blonde milf with a solo site as well, and roughly equals CM in popularity.
Daily estimated google searches for Claudia Marie: 9,084
Daily estimated google searches for Samantha 38G (aka Samantha Anderson): 4,540+2,899

First I checked the Usenet:
Claudia Marie: One private show 99MB
Samantha 38G: 5000MB of HQ movies

Second I checked all the file storage services like rapidshare on filestube(dot)com
Claudia Marie: clicked through the first three pages of results, scenes from naughty America available, otherwise :”In response to a complaint we received under the US Digital Millennium Copyright Act (DMCA), we have removed this result.”
Samantha 38G: 160 Results ~30GB of content

Third I checked the tubes at tube search engine tubegals(dot)com
Claudia Marie: three full scenes from Naughty America and Sensationalcash, otherwise promotional samples
Samantha 38G: 23 full scenes

At last I did a google search (first 40 results):
Claudia Marie: only promotional content and movies from Naughty America
Samantha 38G: links to spankwire, youporn, xvideos… with dozens of full scenes

To sum up you CAN protect your content if you put some effort into it.

If sponsors would finally pull their heads out of their asses we could at least DOUBLE our income WITHIN A MONTH.

Just imagine if sponsors would start cleaning up the serps (which takes little effort), we could easily triple our SE traffic income. Instead of full scenes from tubes, torrents, storage services… the surfer would get our blogs and sites…

"No Damian. I will not tell you a single site that has my awesome system on."

Fair enough mate.

Been thinking about this overnight and maybe instead of the 127.0.0.1 thief-username watermarking a more nicer way of doing it would be to drop the IP Address and have something like This video was produced especially for username by Claudia Marie xxx.

Although without having a look this might be what's already being done and i've got the wrong end of the stick.

Point is, if you do it 'nicely' or 'crudely' it still says to me that you are expecting your customers to be thieves. AND it is totally ineffective as it is either gonna be removed through editing as it's only up for a little while, or through the same technology as pirates use to obfuscate tv channel bugs. etc.

What if you bought a digital file of a TV show or film from iTunes and every x minutes it popped up saying DAMIAN BOUGHT THIS.

There would be outrage!

rtmpe streams can be ripped

No wais!

Keep up the good work Robbie!

:pimp

I suppose so. A bit like the only dvds with anti piracy shit at the start are the legitimate ones.

Indeed

http://www.techxav.com/wp-content/up...iratelegal.jpg

Nice to see this business thread still going and staying on topic.
:thumbsup

Damian I'm not sure what your argument is... What is wrong with a paysite owner taking basic protective measures which have boosted his income?

i love your analogies
your justifying
the equivelent to putting a power adapter on an guitars that makes it impossible to use unless you play your instrument in the store (for a fee of course)
or having an annoying voice recording that plays bought for robbie every 30 seconds that the instrument is played.

and comparing it to the reasonable action of putting a lock on the door.

I see no proof that any of the time Robbie, or anyone, spent removing/"protecting" content has boosted income. People that infringe copyright are not (imho) a lost sale.

One would think that people like RYC would have case studies etc? But none I can find.

The point, and I am sorry this wasn't made more clearly, is that you will never stop piracy so the time you waste trying could be spent actually doing something to increase sales.

I go into this in more detail http://www.adultmarketing.co.uk/2010...-about-piracy/

Again, apologies for not being clear.

If Robbie, or anyone else, wants to spend what is a limited resource (time) trying to stop something that can't be stopped, then cool. As a marketeer, I think that spending that time doing some marketing would be a better choice.

But everyone has the choice to do as they want.

Hope my position is clear now.

Damian, as you know we have no heat with each other. I consider us "internet friends" :)

But just as you have given your opinions on what I'm doing...I'd like to give you MY opinion. My opinion is that I have been very successful in this business. I have a ton of experience owning, running, building a few companies in adult that all became wildly successful while I watched thousands of competitors fail.

My experience and knowledge has led me to do each and every move that I make. And yes, when someone shows me something I hadn't thought of I am all ears. Matter of fact what you said about not realizing that you needed to scroll down for the movies yesterday put me in action. You are the only one who ever made that comment...but guess what? That's one too many, and I respect your opinion. So we stuck a link under the first 3 vids with an anchor to take you to the rest. Thank you for that observation.

As far as protecting my content...you're damn right I do everything possible. I watched my sales come back. I watched our rebills come back. All AFTER I put the clamp on piracy. THAT is the result of protecting your content. It can be done, and it does have direct positive results. I just want other paysite owners to know that you CAN stop the bleeding. None of us are powerless.

On a side note...drop me an ICQ. I'm still wanting to get with you and find out if you have been able to download the streaming video yet. I'm hoping you haven't. :)

i think what your doing is certainly working in the right direction and i think both your hearts are in the right place.

robbie: good luck "nailing" someone who put a video on bit-torrent that they stream ripped off your site that has an IP on it once in a while. i doubt any court in the world would let that stand. tooo many variables, remember in court, its not what you know its what you can prove. and thats not "proof" of anything.