it's actually practiced by many owners because anybody can download all the videos in one day of their trial and the programs wont get an full members

really anyone can download a site in a day?
i don't believe someone could grab every scene from a site like brazzers, in 2 or 3 days.

wow i can't believe you are actually justifying making one sales pitch and then burying a limitation in the fine print.

look at mainstream business when they do something like that TOS falls in the way of the purchase, and is unclickable i accept until the person scrolls to the bottom of the TOS.

there is at least a reasonably credible arguement that the person saw the TOS and it therefore binding.

noob... :D

It doesn't have to be in the terms at all, it still isn't fraud...

Just curious as to what constitutes as fraud in this business (serious question)

So let me ask you guys this.

Say a person has a network of sites

person 1 signs up for a website within this network of sites, site A which is 24.95 a month. With an automatic checkedbox for a "trail membership" to website b for an additional 39.99 a month recurring 39.99 a month their after. Therefor paying a total of 65.00 a month

person 2 signs up for website A for 24.95 a month and website b (separately) for 24.95 a month, spending a total of 50.00 a month on the same 2 sites.

Person 1 and person 2 end up talking and realize the difference. Is it fraud?? Is it a charge back (through ccbill) waiting to happen? or is it just shit happens? :1orglaugh

Wouldn't a trial convert to full better if the trial member was actually able to access the content featuring the performer he was interested in seeing?

What you're talking about is a cross sale offer... this isn't the same thing. But to answer your question, if the xsale offer isn't spelled out, it's fraud. I think most people feel that's fraud.

What we're talking about is a trial membership that offers a very limited amount of content in the members area because it's a trial, they then upsell the member to the same site, for the full monthly rate. :)

You know, oddly.... no.

Natural trial to converts is 20%, good is 30%, anything natural above that is great. If you give away your full members area to trials, and simply offer the upgrade button.. heavily. You will get another 10% or so upgrades.. not bad.

Take away everything but updates, it's another 5-10%... take away everything but 3 scenes, you get 60% + BUT you also get some members bitching. I would say a balance is best, but to the less side.

I will say this though... when you really lock it down, you kill trial hoppers. If you give trial members updates, leased content, or too much shit - they will resignup for trials until they suck you dry.

I know what we are talking about, I was not referring directly to that. I was referring to the price when someone mentioned FRAUD and asked what is considered fraud. I think you missed my point, which was off topic of a trail. I thought the OP was talking about ripoffs in general also, since he was writing about it. :( sorry for that

Fitty tests..............

If I like what's on the tour, that new video you're pushing... and I sign up for the trial and get some joke of 3 or 4 videos... or unable to see the content you were pushing on the tour, I don't think I'd convert to a full join. I might find another site that has it, or maybe just surf the tube sites instead.

Oh... I think fraud is basically when you bill a customer without them knowing about it. Or they purchase something and didn't get any product, no support, etc. What fraud actually is.

I have been to taste testing places, $1 for samples - I really don't expect an entire plate full of food, I expected a sample and got that. At that, the flyer didn't say you only get 3 chips to taste salsa with, it said come try different flavors of salsa.

That's what a $1 trial gets you... in the door, heated up to try a few things, so maybe you buy more.

I agree, as a surfer if I saw fresh updates and didn't get that, I would be gone...

I really can't explain why more people upgrade the less you give and the less people upgrade the more you give. Unless people really are trying to leech content that much.

Did you get what I was saying though, the site price is 24.95 but when they try to crosssale the same site they charge 39.99?

isnt this illegal

Nope, didn't catch that... are you referring to the xsale as the upgrade? Cause you can't xsale to the same site if it's a more expensive xoffer, it's not fraud - it's just stupid. Upgrade wise though, it's normal for the trials upgrade monthly rate to be higher than if he took the standard monthly package at first. With the price points though, those are stated at the bottom of the join page.

This is ridiculous. Talk about selective reasoning. Perhaps chargebacks and refund requests dont go through the roof because we're talking about a fucking BUCK! Who the hell is going to take the time and do a chargeback or call customer service for a dollar. They just cancel and move on (to a tube).

Well, being that trial, full month and 3 month chargebacks all happen about the same rate, it's safe to assume people will cb/refund a trial just as fast as any other membership. And you get a 30-40+ increase in trial conversions with aggressive upgrades.

The numbers are screaming it's not fraud....


However the people without trial upgrades doing 20% trial to converts are getting ripped first, then 80% cancel to go watch tubes. Who is getting frauded?

Do you even read what you are typing? Are you telling me you read through every terms of service on something you purchase? Puhlease.

To go back to the NetFlix example. When someone signs up for a month trial to NetFlix they get access to every movie available, not 100 trailers or for that matter 10% of their inventory. Why? Because Netflix believes in their company and feels that if you experience their service for a month you will be hooked and stay a long term member. That's what a "trial" should be. A way for a potential customer to try out a service or product at a limited price and see if works for them. Not a chance to trick them in the door and then screw em.

When you get a trial with netflix, you can browse everything but you only get a limited amount of movies at once to view... that's how a trial works.

I find it incredibly hard to believe that $1 chargebacks happen at the same rate as $120 chargebacks. Common sense would dictate otherwise. It's like walking down the street and seeing a dollar on the ground or a penny. What do you stop to pick up? You're basically saying an equal amount would pick up both. I call bullshit.

I don't bill people for $120, 99% of programs don't and in this post, nobody is.

Why don't we just make up some random example, like you purchased a car and you got a goat?

LOL, no I never read the TOS which is how I get screwed with my cell phone bill.

No actually thats not how it works. You pick your plan and then get a month free trial for that plan. If you dont like it, you cancel it within the month and are charged nothing, if you like it, do nothing and you're billed for the plan you chose each month.

oh sweet.. but I was correct, you can't rent everything you want, it's limited. Might not be limited exactly like ours, but then again...

That's mainstream business which sends you something in the mail... we can't do what they do.

You said 3 month chargebacks happen at the same rate as trial memberships. I took creative liberty and went with $39.95 x 3 months versus the OP $1 Brazzers trial. So sorry if that isnt exact. Lets go with $30 versus $1. I still call bullshit.

aren't you supposed to have no less than 400 characters per post now?

i don't want to have to hit eric up on icq and tell on you... :thumbsup









.

WTF are you talking about? No you werent correct and you basically just made up a Netflix trial offer to suit your needs. The point is (and the point of the original thread) the trial NetFlix offers is the exact offer of their actual service. The trial isnt limited in any way compared to their actual service. You just get 1 month free to try it.

Huh? Once you remove affiliate fraud, if one price point got higher cb/refunds than others, people would drop them.

It's not rocket science.

I 100% agree with limited access trial members areas, I give some videos and they aren't hidden or anything, and of the 1000's of trials I get I get maybe 2 complaints a year, and am more than happy to give em the $1 they spent back, but I first offer full access for a cheaper rate and to date only 1 person wanted that $1.

I don't care how much content you have, if you do trials (all the math I've done says you will make more if you do) you 100% need to limit the access to content unless they upgrade or you will be out of biz very soon. Some give zero video I give 4 or 5 and some pics, and a taste of the feeds. I might give zero videos in the near future, the less content, the more upgrades you get.

No it's limited, if you purchase the unlimited package, you don't get unlimited dvd's your first month with your free trial.

As I have already said, they run it differently, it's a mainstream business that sends products, again we can't do that, thus our billing rules are greatly different.

You know what.. screw NetFlix, we were doing trial upgrades like this before NetFlix was around... in my opinion, they're ones doing it wrong.

absolutely the rule of thumb on trials. good post :thumbsup

Seems the better way to handle trials would be to limit the download & streaming amounts.

Trial gets say 400MB per day
Upgrade to full and get 5 gigs a day or unlimited

This way a trial can see the entire site. Just can't download all the content during the trial.

Hugs,
Danielle

Some programs do it that way... some limit total bw, some limit the amount of a video that streams or quality of video, some people turn off all the videos and only give you pictures. Some of the more technical stuff though, is just that tough to do...

Truly, I don't I could twist all the ways people use upgrades.

NO. Refer to this thread and maybe you wil get what I am saying. But the guy didnt so maybe I am explaining my point wrong lol

http://www.gfy.com/showthread.php?t=967114

Trial upgrades are one of the best things a paysite could ever do... :thumbsup

Quickly looking that over, I would say that's a program screwing up rather than someone trying to fraud surfers. That would bite him in the ass more than it helps, it's a total newb mistake... it happens a lot more than people know about.

Well, I'm gonna make this my 50th post in 6 or 8 years...
You don't have a clue about real member sites.
Our trials are 10 days access, and you get the full site.
There is no way in hell that anybody can download the full site in that short of a space of time.
Granted, we only allow 5 gigs at a time, but if you wait an hour or so, you can log in again and carry on.
A trial should be a trial. Ever heard of WYSIWYG?
Content is king, and real websites shouldn't have to resort to bullshit tactics.

I think that guy was purposely playing blind, deaf and dumb with me :1orglaugh:1orglaugh