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Hit me up with any questions you have once you guys start moving that direction. |
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drawing the conclusion that every person who doesn't complain is automatically ok with the sneaky tactic is bullshit. |
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i don't have an issue with a limited trial/streaming only /whatever you want to limit piracy solution as long as you disclose it on your tour like netflix did honest is the issue not weather one type of trial is valid or not. doc right trials mean different things to different people if you sell them with a download the movie, watch the full movie on the tour and you link to a page that list a trial open but doesn't allow you to download/watch that particular movie you are selling one thing and delivering another which is the point because if the customers really didn't feel cheated as thedoc keeps claiming telling them upfront about the limits wouldn't hurt your conversions at all the only reason he doesn't do it is because he knows that it would. |
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You can run a trial offer any way you want - that's was the actual point being made. |
gideon, I find it insulting you even took the time to reply to me in this thread... take your moral spew some place else.
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it like when you deliberately ignored the 3rd definition of a monopoly to make your claim that you could only be a monopoly if you abused the market. |
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As much as this isn't uncommon these days I think things like this make it all the more likely for the government and the banks to come down on the industry. I don't think anyone here wants that.
I've always wondered why more people don't make their trials different than the standard model. Here's an example. Give the trial member full access to the members area but tell them they can download or access no more than 5-20 (pick a number) videos of their choice and make this very clear on the join page. Once they go over the limit present the upsell to the full membership. They would have access to any video in theory (so no issues with movies being on the tour but not in the trial member area) but they are limited on how many they can access with their trial membership. Main disadvantage which I see would be some added complexity in the required scripting and databases (you need to keep track of access to the videos for trial members only). This approach might even increase revenues over the current model if done correctly. It certainly seems less shady as well. :2 cents: |
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put the words streaming only right beside the trial and make them upgrade to download the stuff |
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I'm sure trials can see everything with most paysites, they just can't access them all. They purchased a trial, that's what they got... They can test the features out, make sure they have what they said they do, make sure videos work, features work, login works, etc.. some give more than others, then the member upgrades for everything. Whatever your view is, at the end of the day members don't agree with you, the numbers simply don't support your view. It's very simple logic. |
I cancelled my Netflix account the other day and they rebilled me today.
It happens everywhere. |
And... Gideon, are you questioning our Industry our some peoples Business ethics when you basically think it's okay that paysites get pirated, that fair use is some how fair to paysites, that because paysites aren't doing some fake magic voodoo that nobody can find on torrents, that they are all losing out, its some how the paysites fault?
Please.... questioning what or how we do things. You need to stick a sock in it. |
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And that's still playing nice.... |
Come on guys. The people behind Brazzers are honest people. Stop acting like they had millions seized by the government for allegedly laundering it.
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btw that exactly what brazzers did in this case and you justified it with every arguement you made about how it was legitimate. Quote:
especially when your trying to justify lying on your tour because of piracy newsflash providing a limited trial and telling people about the tour would protect you from piracy just as much as providing a limited trial and not telling them on the tour. In terms of "protecting" your content there is no difference. So bring that issue up is just a red hering to try and justify being a lying scumbag. IF you were right and the customer didn't care/expected the limits then telling them the truth on the tour would adversely effect your sales one bit. so why do all the porn sites not do it the same way as netflix and explictly spell out the limits right on the tour. |
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Correct as well, I think what they are doing is legitimate and not fraud. However, that doesn't mean I have to agree with the direction they took. Quote:
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And no, I think it's pathetic you spew moral values here when you basically support our Industry being ripped off. Many porn sites tell them about the limits, I stated that at least 10 times in this thread. Equal or better than netflix does.. again, I don't care how Brazzers does it, I know it's not Fraud through the numbers and I personally don't care what your uneducated view on the subject is. |
I agree that a trial is a trial. 4 videos is a little ridiculous. But I would say if you try a site and dont like it. a refund should be issued. no questions asked.
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to misrepresent a scumbag slimeball cheat as some how legitimate. Quote:
your numbers were 1/200 charged back (.5%) and you used that to prove that most people accept your definition of a trial. how many people didn't accept the definition of a trial, felt ripped off but decided it a buck fuck it it not worth filling out all the paper work to get that money back. all of those people don't really accept your definition of a trial but you "count" them as if you do. the only way you could actually know if people really accepted your definition of "trial" is to split test them one telling them the conditions and another not telling them. If the definition in their minds was exactly the same there would be no difference between the two. you know that if you put a phrase like "100% money back guarrentee" you increase sales not decrease them since you made the bogus justification Quote:
so your numbers actually prove the opposite and your just misrepresenting them to make your bogus claim. |
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at least one of the reasons.... |
on the subjet of Brazzers ripping of there members
i know at lest 10 ex members who have been over billed not just for 1month but for months |
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Now its a standard feature in payment systems... you could say its kinda my fault ... and I still love the idea! :) Soooo many options with this... |
Nathan I knew you would pop in here lol how's it going over there? Hit me up if you get a chance michael at twistys would love to just talk business with you.
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End of the day you not know 'anything' about this Industry or business, or torrents, videos, piracy, etc.. your a bad pathological liar.... straight up. |
i posted here on page one...but some db error...removed it
:( anyway...if you want to get setup with trial members areas get in touch....we can set it up instantly...and pass them onto your upgrade link base don your constraints you can expect trial to full to go from 35% to 65% approximately so on 1000 trials a month that is an extra 300 that go to full price hows an extra 12k do ya? |
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so if your doing split test between giving them full access on the trial and giving them limited access on the trial so if in the 1st case people who backed out of charging back because they saw the penalty of fraud declaration could easily be replaced with people who actually were pissed didn't fear the fraud declaration but basically said fuck it it will cost me 60 cents to mail the fraud dispute it not worth it. when they had no justifiable reason to charge back fear of procecution would stop them when they did have a justifiable reason inconvience did you would still get zero change in charge backs and have people not agree with your definition of trial. you claim to have years of statistical analysis training you should understand this concept. matching the test to the claim, issolating the variables in the transaction, that stuff you learn in the 1st year of university. i will give you the benefit of the doubt how did you issolate /eliminate the transactional reasoning for a charge back from your test, maybe i am to stupid to see how you did that. Quote:
ryan diess(sp) did the same thing on his sites and averaged something over 6% puffy like the one brazzers has on it join page which implys a money back guarrentee but doesn't actually stat it will get 3.12% increase in conversion (as long as it is trusted which it won't be after someone gets screwed like above) limits can be stated as benefits for the non limited option in that context the limit would be a benefit (just like the brazzers + mofos on this join page) |
OMG BRO.
welcome to the Internet. |
OMG! Thieves are NOW stealing from us!
What has this world come to?! |
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Each price point has just about the same CB levels, so your theory is wrong. With or without upgrades, trials or not... Quote:
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Yes, a better balance can be found but not everyone agrees on that balance. |
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For example: Option A: A $1 trial that offers full access to the members area. 1 in 200 chargeback but 20 feel ripped off. Option B: A $1 trial that offers limited access and it is not disclosed on the tour that the trial is limited. 1 in 200 chargeback but 100 feel ripped off. The same number of users chargeback but the dissatisfaction level rises 5x. The chargeback numbers stay the same because the actual % of users willing to do a chargeback for $1 is so low as to not affect the outcome. What happens the next time that user who is dissatisfied comes across a trial offer? The more they are lied to, the less likely they are going to take up the next trial offer, even if that new sites offer is legitimate. You're building up a customer base that distrusts everything. I never once said that a site shouldnt or cant do a limited trial. My point is that if a site is going to go this route, what is offered in the trial should be clearly visable and explained (like the NetFlix example). |
Say it aint so!
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Nobody cares as long as they are paying the webmasters. Thats when people start caring in the adult scene.
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This industry does not care what is behind the curtain as long as they are paid, and on time. :pimp |
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Does the furniture store that sold you your couch care that they have a 200% mark up on it? HELL NO. Does the gas station owner give a shit that the gas prices are overpriced and gouging you? HELL NO. Apparently only the adult industry has salesmen that fret and worry about shit that is out of their league and out of their hands. No other business would tolerate the stupidity of having overpaid sales people like me running our cocksuckers and talking negatively about the very people who pay us. Crazy business for sure. |
I think the "little things" add up to big actions. It's completely true (in my experience) that "mainstream" sales tactics rarely (if ever) translate to Adult. I've tried some Frank Kearns techniques to little avail. You see, in "mainstream" people THINK.
In Adult, people FEEL. They SEE then they FEEL then they take action; THINKING just gets in the way of.....orgasm (more FEELING). So KISS. Keep It Simple Stupid. People laugh at my "old-school" designs but combine the fact that "old-school" can not only stand-out but also has a comfort factor with most customers being over-30 (under-30's spend the least and have been raised on "free") and you get $$$. Knowing this, the "BROgrams" gloss over the little details, things only "someone working on an article" would bother to notice. "Christ, I GOT MY DICK IN MY HAND!" says the surfer/potential member. " WHAT BUTTON DO I PUSH SO I CAN JACK IT?" Us little guys try to achieve the same affect, not through deception but through honesty: "HERE'S WHAT YOU GET! I TRUST YOU!" lol |
Sorry robbie but you are mixing up the webmasters and the salespersons in your comparison. But i think we agree.
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