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This thread is both hilarious and sad from both sides of the coin (that includes you, GFY Sleuths lol). It's providing excellent entertainment for some of us though.
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no reply to my question ?
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I don't suspect that the Mansef guys are ever gonna really sell their company. Hell, just naming it "Manwin" had to give them a pretty good laugh. :) And there's nothing wrong with that. It's their company, and I'm sure they are making moves based on legal and accounting advice. It really doesn't matter to me one way or another. I just found it kinda funny to watch this Nathan person suddenly come into this as a multi-millionaire with plenty of money to buy into a big company...but unable to straight talk to some of the folks here who had their very livelihoods smashed with pornhub, while the Mansef/Manwin crew got richer off of the stolen content. If you were in the paysite actual porn side of the biz you might not be quite as amused. I'm of the thought that it would be real nice if they stopped allowing stolen content. That would be great. It would also be great if they stopped putting up full scenes. But we both know that the minute they did that...their traffic would dry up immediately. So it's hard to discern what this Nathan guy is saying or doing. I'm not sure why he even came on GFY if he has nothing to really say. |
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As far as tubes go, though, you're right they don't affect me at all as the only adult project I'm involved with relies on social interaction and not content. I agree content theft is wrong and should be illegal, that they are exploiting a loophole right now in the legal system... Then again, as you have said millions of times, you took steps to protect your content and haven't suffered like others have. Other smart owners worked on providing members with more than just photos and videos; interactivity and an addictive member experience, and haven't suffered. Finally, there are many others, who instead of protecting their content better, or enhancing their offering, preferred to spend 99% of their day whining on a forum - I'm not sure how bad I'm supposed to feel for them. |
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They are scared basically. And you can't blame them. They are busting ass, taking all the risks and all the costs...and then watching it go down the drain. Meanwhile the review sites tell them that if they tried to protect their content then they will get bad reviews and lose even further potential sales. So yeah, I do feel bad for them. They didn't do anything wrong, and yet because others worked unscrupulously they are supposed to somehow change gears and now it's their fault for not being smart enough to "adapt" Hell man, I should NEVER have had to put in all the time and effort I have to keeping my shit from being everywhere. I'm a busy guy and my work time would be better spent dreaming up new creative ideas and working on the actual website instead of testing my shit against every download software known to man. So in a way, it has taken money from me. Time is money. I wonder how many scenes I didn't shoot, or how many really cool set ups for a vid I didn't think of because my mind was on fighting piracy? So yeah, I do feel for guys who came at this and gave it their all and just don't have the ability to stop their stuff from getting stolen. I don't know what's gonna become of all of them, pretty sure they are hurting real bad. I do agree about the GFY "detectives". But there is one guy in this thread who icq'ed me some info that was downright amazing. He IS in the know. Far more than you or I for sure. |
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We have gone after numerous mark infringements over the years. Always, we try to amicably and professionally try to find a resolution that protects our marks and creates a mutually profitable resolution first. We found the previous owners willing to work with us and the new ownership apparently also values a relationship with us. That doesn't make us liars. That doesn't make us enemies of the industry. If our decision is unpopular then so be it. I know that others that took our same approach have had positive results as well. Even now, in spite of all the accusations and insults, I am trying to help those here that are raising cain and grousing when they could be effecting a positive change. I don't expect anyone to listen since complaining is more fun and a hell of a lot easier to do. Which is fine by me, one of my favorite guilty pleasures is hearing my competition saying they are leaving the business, going bankrupt, selling their assets, or whatever. :thumbsup |
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This applies to any industry though, not just adult. The situation is similar to small town shops when a Wal-Mart rolled into town. Many were forced to close shop as they couldn't compete with the pricing of the retail giant. Which ones survived? The ones who offered a higher quality product and better service. I know I would rather buy a hand-crafted, high quality product from someone with knowledge and passion for the item (that costs 5x more) than a "made in taiwan" piece of shit that's dirt cheap and sold by clueless robotic minions :2 cents: Information is out there; help is out there. If one of your honest, hard-working people who did nothing wrong really wanted to find ways to survive; they could. Most I see, though, don't see that they should have to as they did nothing wrong (as you said) - which while correct, is the wrong attitude to take. It says "woe is me; I give up". With regards to the review site comment, that's a cheap excuse. Do you think that if a majority of the sites they review changed the same aspect of their site and communicate with them the reasons why, they won't modify their review structure? They want to make money too, they don't want to have their site full of bad reviews... Many people in adult were "in the right place at the right time" and have made a lot of money because of that. They believe this entitles them to always hold that position; it doesn't. What if next time, it isn't a "tube" but a new government regulation? Should we feel bad for those who simply whine and whine and do nothing but feel sorry for themselves ? |
Will you be releasing the IP address of serial uploaders of copyright material they don't own?
Or will you protect their privacy? As for the wolf turning into the sheep dog, this business was and still is littered with people who started out pirating content. Now some of them are in the Bro club. |
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Nothing is going to change. This whole move is nothing more than smoke and mirrors. They should have brought in Bob Rice, he would have had GFY sucking the nut out of his cock in a matter of seconds, but he's busy with Solo Converts right now and all the programs they have going under that umbrella, which are rumored to be not paying affiliates. I love this business. Crooks, cons and crybabies at every corner. I guess I'd fall into the crybaby category because I'm here in this thread wasting my time. :1orglaugh :thumbsup Meanwhile Mansuck or whatever they are called now have made a few hundred thousand dollars with stolen content. |
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And no, the review site comment is NOT a "cheap excuse" I've had several program owners come to me asking me how to protect their content and then tell me that they are afraid to do it because of review sites. And I don't give a shit what you or anybodies theories are on the pioneers of this online business. The FACT is you can NOT compete when your entire site is ripped and offered for free everywhere. I don't know what marketing classes all of you have taken that think that somehow you can just work harder and give better customer service...when YOUR PRODUCT IS AVAILABLE FOR FREE AND EVERYBODY IN THE WORLD KNOWS IT. Come on man. |
By the way Keith, I'm not trying to be an asshole to you. I still value your friendship. I'm just debating this, so please don't take anything personal that I'm saying. I just think you're not seeing things from the perspective of site owners who are trying to weigh several things at once in their judgments and decisions
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My point is, they are stealing your product to gain an unfair business advantage. I don't argue that. BUT, what I do argue is, most people prefer to mope and whine instead of doing something about it. Let's say you are right and protecting their content is beyond everyone's means/technical ability. What is to stop them from adding additional benefits and features to their site to start offering more to the surfer - things that can't be so easily stolen. The web is moving towards that direction full blast anyhow, so aside from combating piracy it's just good business sense. Interactivity is the key and 99% of adult sites lack that feature. That's my entire point; if they spent half the time they do bitching, in improving their product by adding interactivity, they would see their business grow not be killed. |
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And yeah, if Brazzers paysite was just so damn exceptional (and in many ways it is) that nobody could compete with it and everybody in the world wanted to join it...then that analogy would be perfect. But Walmart doesn't come to town and put things in it's store that are exclusively licensed to others and give it away for free. For instance Walmart doesn't steal Midas brake pads and give them away for free (which would put Midas out of business) and they don't go to Guitar Center, steal a bunch of guitars and give them all away for free. This isn't Walmart. This isn't even competing. This is theft and the destruction of the entire paysite/affiliate business model. |
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But not all of them can do that. How can sites that are built on paid-for content be interactive for instance? And if everybody starts doing what I'm doing and stops buying content...well then there is another sector of the business that is going to go down (content sellers) Or sites like Twistys for instance? How does Shap get girls to be interactive when he pays photographers to do all the shooting? Maybe those kinds of sites are going to have to change in MAJOR ways (again what happens to content providers?) or maybe they are going to become extinct. I don't know. |
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the sad thing is, half of the people taking shots at this guy for actually treating this business LIKE A BUSINESS, are most likely emailing him asking him if he wants to buy their business.
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You are right, sites in those situations are going to have a hard time changing their business model and may die off. IMO that would have happened eventually, though, as porn surfers WILL be seeking out sites that do more than show them videos and pics. The outbreak of tubes stealing everyone's traffic only serves to speed up that day (perhaps making it arrive years sooner than it would have otherwise). |
congrats nathan .. that's a huge acquisition
good for your future acquisition ! |
Robbie,
although I do not expect that I can in anyway influence your thoughts on this, I do think I need to at least comment on a few things you have written. There are tubes which I am sure do what you describe, ie actively stealing content and uploading it themself. However, our tubes, do not do this but I do not expect you to believe me. There are roughly 10 other tubes which are around our size (thousands that are smaller) which use a similar model to ours. If we would turn off our tubes, nothing will change since the others will simply pickup our traffic and you start back at zero. If we do changes to them as I have said we will, we might get others to follow, either way, our traffic can be used well by companies in our industry already today and it will likely be even better once we are done with all planned changes. You say people have to protect their content, it hurts reviews on review sites, and such things. People can not make sure their content is not put up for free anywhere, its too difficult to fight and thus nobody can make any money anymore. You do realize that we operate two of the biggest paysite networks in this industry, releasing multiple exclusive scenes each single day. Just because we run multiple tube sites does not mean we do not face the same problems everyone else faces with free content. On the contrary, our scenes are very popular, we release DVDs which adds another layer of attack next to online content, and we have to send out DMCA notices constantly. The business is changing, we decided to go the route its been taking in every industry, not only ours, that has to do with digital media, instead of sticking our head in the sand and complaining that DMCA exists. It simply does, and until its changed we need to live with it. In terms of Walmart, although I agree that Varius' analogy does not fit perfectly, neither does yours (for the reasons I explained above). But, please get more informed about Walmart's business practices, as well as those of rival mega-retail chains like the Metro Group. When they open a store in a city, they do not just open a really big store, they also FORCE major brands to sell them their products for dirt cheap so they can resell them for dirt cheap too, undercutting everyone else in the market and dumping the products below dealer prices. Of course they do not steal products from other stores and then give them away for free, but neither do we... |
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Hell. I like Bosco, and I think Brazzers has some of the best big tit paysites in the world But my point in this thread wasn't to attack you. But to explain to others who make flippant remarks that pornhub didn't hurt a lot of people. And it will continue to hurt a lot of people. No matter what you try to do with it. It's a big ass monster that quite frankly I don't think you or anybody can figure out how to properly monetize for an extended period of time. Like I said before NOBODY can compete with Free. Not even pornhub itself. So don't think I'm on some kind of crusade against you. I'm not. I did what I had to do a couple of years back to make sure my paysite didn't become another victim. Once I took action and it worked...I stopped being angry. Now the affiliate in me hates you guys. My tgps had 1.2 million uniques in 2007. I'm lucky to have a couple of friends stop by them now. Nobody is reading blogs, surfers don't go to freesites EXCEPT to see if there is anything new to steal that they haven't gotten yet. I did find it funny that you were kinda acting like you don't know anything about anything. That kinda came off like an insult to people. Anyway, you got nothing to convince me of one way or another. I've seen with my own two eyes from both the perspective of a paysite owner and an affiliate. Brazzers paysites are some of the very best in the world. Pornhub is a huge cancer. Your gonna change pornhub? I'm just saying the only changes that would be beneficial long term to paysite sales would be the very changes that would take your traffic down to nothing. There IS nothing you can do. If you actually did kill pornhub and decide to become a paysite oriented company again...somebody else would just take your place. |
Nathan, if you're serious as you say you are, then you see you have an opportunity, which I suspected is part of the reason you made this purchase, and why you made this public posting in the first place.
I think the industry as a whole has adapted to tubes, and the tubes themselves have adapted through either necessity or market position. The two seem somewhat ready to play together (industry vs tubes). Tube sites can now claim near legitimacy, by ushering in a new era of sanity and self control, and cement themselves as the free porn dispensers of these here internets. From rebels to noble leaders. I can't think of a decent analogy, but you get the picture. I think you have a rare (and strange...) opportunity to further legitimize tubes by helping to shut down the competition to the tubes, which is what's truly killing everybody. The pirate forums. Ze torrentz. Da rapidsharingg. What can you do? They're hurting you, and if they could be shut down, the tubes will reign fries supreme. Will the dark knight eschew his past and ride for the glory of the king and country? |
Robbie,
good that we understand eachother. I agree, it is not easy to change our tubes without hurting the, which is why we are doing it carefully. I do however disagree that the tubes are impossible to compete with or make money from. Our tubes also obviously took traffic away from a lot of people. But last time I checked, thats free market economy. If someone manages to produce a legal website which takes revenue away from us, I would be the last one to go and complain to them, instead of trying to figure out a way to beat them at their game. The thing that mostly annoys me about some people on GFY is that they seem to think I have to be sorry or ashamed of having a very professionally run corporation and a very good team of highly qualified people. Good old GFY... |
Socks,
tell me a way to get rid of sites like pornbb, torrents and such, and I'll be all over it... I think there are not many ways if any to do so. |
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Still some people fail to see through his stonewalling refusal to answer simple questions. Whatever happened to performing due diligence to know who is behind the company you are considering to do business with (and not just a single mouthpiece)? I swear, you guys would have loved Bernie Maddoff... :upsidedow It's like sheep being led to a slaughter (the sheep are content to eat the food that is fed to them, and it temporarily fattens them up, but only too late do they realize their ultimate fate): http://www.smh.com.au/ffximage/2007/..._470x311,0.jpg This industry never ceases to amaze me... :1orglaugh :helpme :disgust ADG |
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ADG,
you are an analytical genius... well, wait... sorry, you THINK you are an analytical genius. Yet you fail to realize, there actually are people making money in this industry. Good money... there is actually more to adult entertainment than GFY shockingly enough. Just because you have never heard of me or have not noticed me, does not mean I do not exist... The best people in this industry stay below the radar usually... So, again, believe me or not, this is how it is. You know whats the best about all of this? I could not care less if you believe me or not, since we are not doing business together (And of course you will reply with a grand remark like us of course never doing business in the future either since I'm a fraud anyway...)... The people that know me, the people that know Manwin and the people that do business with us or potentially would, those are the ones that believe me and that's all I will ever need. |
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Oh, I'm so hurt that you had to resort to trying to appear condescending towards me, while avoiding to answer the straightforward questions which I posed to you. That's the mark of a great Managing Partner or whatever you want people to believe you are... :1orglaugh :upsidedow http://www.coastalfloridarealestate....%20of%20oz.jpg ADG |
congrats
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ADG,
you do not want to trust me, like you claimed before.. you want to stir up shit because its fun... thats totally fine by me.. stir all you want, as I said, I could not care less.. ;) I have told you the Managing Partner explanation before.. translations obviously suck, I could not care less what some website defines "Managing Partner" to mean, I care how "Geschäftsführender Gesellschafter" is translated from german to english. Then your question about who is on the board of directors, seriously.. do you ask this to everyone? How is this any of your friggin business.. but you know, I won't make you look it up in public records: me and top level management is on the board... Again, something you will claim is all lies obviously, or will twist with some other hilarious remark trying to make me look stupid... have fun... |
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You have the influence to make such an alliance useful and beneficial, and clearly this industry needs something positive to happen. Perhaps offering an alternative in lieu of dealing with sites like pornbb would go a long way to mend bridges you seem to be intent on mending. If that's worth time and money to you, then spend it in a way that shows the rest of us that you're part of the solution going forward. This happens all the time on the world stage, and governments band together to villify, starve and hopefully eliminate their enemies. The other governments will agree to join in the parade, as long as their own needs are met in the deal. I see pornbb is sending traffic to programs like Bang Bros, Haze Cash, Program 3, etc. You could swing a deal with these companies to increase their visibility on your network of sites, in return for a harder line approach to advertising on piracy sites such as PornBB. Furthermore it's no loss to you, as those are good programs anyways that you'll make sales with. Just provide an attractive alternative for these networks to side with instead of the "bad guys" that are clearly spoiling things for the lot of us. If a network such as yours teamed up with the likes of RK, AFF, BangBros etc and actually took a stand together against these sites, things would clearly look brighter the day after. Plus you guys are so big that any positive change for the industry as a whole should benefit you the most, as you have a large percentage of that pie already for yourself. Carlos Slim who was at one point the wealthiest man in the world over the past year or two has said that being wealthy is a responsibility. A person like him must put his money to work, or the world suffers. He said that his businesses are like owning an apple orchard, in that he must try to sell all his apples every year, and never sell a tree. He also doesn't like to give money away, as he'd rather put it to use and make more with it, which he believes helps more than simply giving. Right now trees are free, apples are everywhere, and soon enough people won't even want an apple! |
Fabian, now that you guys are the new owners, will you start allowing rightful content owners to upload watermarked clips for free to your site?
if you really are interested in helping the industry out, this would be a great way to show that.. i dont think anyone would have a problem with some of their content being uploded if they were getting credit.. . |
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Socks,
in an ideal world, your approach might work. But I, and many others, have expressed the concern that there will always be some companies in this industry who will take advantage of this kind of an alliance. If RK et al stops advertising on pornbb, someone else will. It would be nice if this kind of an approach worked, and maybe it should be tried, but I think it will in the end not make a difference. I think we need to find an approach which allows everyone to make money although things are offered for free, and I am relatively sure that something will eventually be thought of that provides everyone with just that... Especially on the web, its hard to revert evolution. Also, do not forget, the nature of the web being hard to control is why we all like it. It gives us the freedom to develop our sites without having to really worry heavily about some specific country making what we do illegal... Something to think about... |
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The better the content, the more exposure it gets since people will be watching it more... |
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Every time i tried to upload my content in the past with watermarks, it was always rejected. I look forward to uploading some content and reporting back on the success... . |
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