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Talking about nazis, seems they had support in the USA : Quote:
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It's not a ridiculous charge about "war crimes" - It is a FACT G.W. Bush is a WAR CRIMINAL and should be prosecuted as such. |
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You assume I agree with having our troops in a 3rd world country protecting democracy, I don't. But then I think they should have our troops our border protecting the US from Illegal Aliens. Great thing about this country, I have the right to think that |
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For the record, since you don't seem the know the difference between a woman and man, or anything else for that matter, the guy in this pic is me. But then you think Obama should be sainted, so this is no surprise http://www.rochardsbunnyranch.com/rock/dramaparty01.jpg |
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Can't debate, so he insults, fuck you shit for brains |
What they got from Waterboarding
http://www.rightpundits.com/?p=3790 Is it Torture? http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2010/0..._n_632724.html |
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You keep using that word. I do not think it means what you think it means. :winkwink: |
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and really, if it weren't for politics i bet a lot of the people who bicker back and forth would get along. |
Has it occurred to you that George Bush doesn't really give a shit about travelling abroad and is quite happy at home or are you too busy ranting like an only-child having a tantrum?
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Have you read the new book by G.W. Bush where he ADMITS TO WAR CRIMES? It's a fact - deal with it. |
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As far as getting along with people, I only call people names that's only debate is to sink to insults and name calling, ignorant shit heads like YOU. I get along just fine with liberal people, but those with some reasoning and sense of decorum Quote:
I didn't know you could read! |
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It is a FACT that he admits to approving waterboarding of captured enemy combatants. It is your OPINION that this action constitutes "war crimes". You see the difference? :winkwink: |
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WOW really dude??? You really want to make it this easy for me to utterly destroy your pathetic logic? From Wiki: Waterboarding is a form of torture that consists of immobilizing the subject on his/her back with the head inclined downwards. Water is then poured over the face into breathing passages, thus triggering the mammalian diving reflex causing the captive to experience the sensations of drowning.[1][2] In contrast to submerging the head face-forward in water, waterboarding precipitates an almost immediate gag reflex.[3] It can cause extreme pain, dry drowning, damage to lungs, brain damage from oxygen deprivation, other physical injuries including broken bones due to struggling against restraints, lasting psychological damage and, if uninterrupted, death.[4] Adverse physical consequences can manifest themselves months after the event, while psychological effects can last for years.[5] The term waterboarding was coined in 2004.[6][7] Classification as torture Waterboarding is considered to be torture by a wide range of authorities, including legal experts,[4][34][35] politicians, war veterans,[36][37] intelligence officials,[38] military judges,[39] and human rights organizations.[22][40] David Miliband, then United Kingdom Foreign Secretary, described it as torture on 19 July 2008, and stated "the UK unreservedly condemns the use of torture."[41] Arguments have been put forward that it might not be torture in all cases, or that it is unclear.[17][42][43][44] The U.S. State Department has recognized "submersion of the head in water" as torture in other circumstances, for example, in its 2005 Country Report on Tunisia.[45] The United Nations' Report of the Committee Against Torture: Thirty-fifth Session of November 2006, stated that state parties should rescind any interrogation techniques, such as waterboarding, that constitutes torture or cruel, inhuman, or degrading treatment or punishment.[46] |
Legality
International law All nations that are signatory to the United Nations Convention Against Torture have agreed they are subject to the explicit prohibition on torture under any condition. This was affirmed by Saadi v. Italy in which the European Court of Human Rights, on 28 February 2008, upheld the absolute nature of the torture ban by ruling that international law permits no exceptions to it.[168][169] The treaty states "No exceptional circumstances whatsoever, whether a state of war or a threat of war, internal political instability or any other public emergency, may be invoked as a justification of torture".[170] Additionally, signatories of the Universal Declaration of Human Rights are bound to Article 5, which states, "No one shall be subjected to torture or to cruel, inhuman or degrading treatment or punishment".[171] Many signatories of the convention have made specific declarations and reservations regarding the interpretation of the term "torture" and restricted the jurisdiction of its enforcement.[172] However, UN High Commissioner for Human Rights, Louise Arbour, stated on the subject "I would have no problems with describing this practice as falling under the prohibition of torture", and that violators of the UN Convention Against Torture should be prosecuted under the principle of universal jurisdiction.[173] United States law The United States Supreme Court in Sosa v. Alvarez-Machain, said that the Universal Declaration of Human Rights "does not of its own force impose obligations as a matter of international law."[181] However, the United States has a historical record of regarding water torture as a war crime, and has prosecuted as war criminals individuals for the use of such practices in the past. In 1947, the United States prosecuted a Japanese civilian who had served in World War II as an interpreter for the Japanese military, Yukio Asano, for "Violation of the Laws and Customs of War," asserting that he "did unlawfully take and convert to his own use Red Cross packages and supplies intended for" prisoners, but, far worse, that he also "did willfully and unlawfully mistreat and torture" prisoners of war. Asano received a sentence of 15 years of hard labor.[115] The charges against Asano included "beating using hands, fists, club; kicking; water torture; burning using cigarettes; strapping on a stretcher head downward."[182] The specifications in the charges with regard to "water torture" consisted of "pouring water up [the] nostrils" of one prisoner, "forcing water into [the] mouths and noses" of two other prisoners, and "forcing water into [the] nose" of a fourth prisoner.[183] |
whats worse is that waterboarding is actually only ONE of MANY forms of illegal torture that Bush approved... Also MANY prisoners DIED while being tortured.
We signed the Geneva Conventions into LAW - that makes it US LAW... Waterboarding is a WAR CRIME - FACT: GW BUSH is a WAR CRIMINAL |
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I hope this girl is a family member or this is the creepiest picture I have ever seen. |
Fact you're an idiot.
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Your own quote makes my point for me. Thanks. :) Personally I support water boarding captured enemy combatants if necessary to save US lives just like I support the fire bombings of Tokyo and Dresden as necessary decisions made in the course of a total war. However, unlike you, I am able understand that there are legitimate arguments to be made on both sides of these issues. |
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So...if waterboarding is a crime...then every President since the end of the Korean conflict...which is when the military first began SERE training...has been guilty of committing a crime. BTW...military academies have used various forms of waterboarding during hazing and may still do so. |
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The statement you made was to imply that we don't need to follow the rules but we expect others to follow the rules we don't. It comes across as "do as i say not as i do" |
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rape is the act of sexual contact without consent. otherwise all sex would be rape. You consented to being waterboarded. surely you can see a difference in consenting to something as opposed to having it forced upon you ? |
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When it comes to terrorist, kill them all But at the same time, we should have never giving any arms to the middle east, any of the countries and we should have not trained them. You want to stop the wars, go back to where we only get 30% of our oil from foreign countries, back to when they fought with rocks Does that answer your first post a little more clearly? |
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will anything ever happen about it? of course not.. |
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Gotta love the liberal morons on this forum. They always make me happy knowing I'm not them. On another note, slutboat makes me question the usefulness of the welfare system.
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. go to a vet and get yourself put down |
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I think we all agree that terrorists are scumbags who should be locked away forever, the difference is i happen to think there should be some method to distinguish between a terrorist and a non-terrorist , and funnily enough , there is this thing called law and the legal system designed specifically for this purpose, many people including international laws agree we should use it. If you don't use the law to convict someone , how do you know they are really a terrorist ? Should we just trust the government ? If this is a better way to deal with criminals , why do we have a legal system at all , shouldn't we just trust the government 100% and lockup everyone for whatever they say and for however long they say ? Quote:
The way to stop wars is to stop killing people. |
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Either way it is an insane analogy to say waterboarding prisoners is the same as waterboarding trainees, and i would highly doubt the veracity of any claims that if you did not consent to waterboarding you would have been subject to it anyways. Were you aware of what was going to take place at any time before being strapped in ? Were you given the oportunity to stop the procedure at any point ? I would very highly doubt you answer no to either of those questions. |
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We have hate crime laws, I say that if you kill someone, you probably hate them, why adding the title of hate crime is a difference, but it makes some people feel better. Quote:
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In my case when I became aware that I indeed was going to be waterboarded...the opt out to avoid it was to sign a piece of propaganda they presented to me. Which in the case of capture by a real enemy would be a violation of the Soldiers Code of Conduct...which is a Court Martial offense...and in this case failing the class. Since I did not sign...I was physically forced to be waterboarded...as I physically resisted their efforts to waterboard me. The procedure went on for some period of time...until I agreed to sign. BTW...the waterboarding causes panic...not pain. The most painful thing I experienced was when they beat my stomach open handed until it was not blue but black...and I with stood this procedure without signing. Being repeatedly bitch slapped with an open hand was not pleasant either and my faced swelled up as if I had been stung by a swarm of bees...but I also withstood that as well as the sleep depravation and being strung up for hours...where only the tips of my toes touched the floor. I actually could have resisted the waterboarding for a longer period of time but I knew that I would eventually sign...so I did not hold out as long as I could have. The whole experience at SERE is a bad experience...but the thing that I remember the most is not all of the torture techniques but the experience of eating raw turtle meat...during the survival phase of training. This subject has been covered in a previous thread and there are a few others here that experienced SERE training. Every class is not identical...but similar. |
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