There was and still is an easy out to hold them without trial and that was and is to declare them to be POW's. POW's can be held for the duration of a conflict so in the case of "terrorism" this would be virtually until hell freezes over. I do not really understand why they chose to classify them as "enemy combatants" instead of POW's...but I suppose it is because they wanted to try them by Military Tribunal and put them to death...which cannot be done with POW's. POW's can only be held in confinement during the length of the conflict.

Lean forward bruddy

To those who endured SERE training my hat goes off to you and I thank you for your service to this nation.

However I do wonder if there is much similarity between military training and the actual torture of being waterboarded 183 times in a single month as Khalid Sheikh Mohammed was subjected to.

I'm sure the durations and severity were far worse than anything SERE would ever impose on our troops.

Completely agree that BUSH had a NAZI profile and the world is better without him.

That's for sure.

Bush has been the biggest Dictator and MASS MURDERER of the western hemisphere in the last 50 years.

.

i think when you are US pres... its your duty...... to flush...

alot..

of...

SHIT...

down the toilet..

my posts are always funny (when not edited).


Sabby:)

Uhhhhhhh what about LBJ in Vietnam????

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vietnam_war

I'm glad these retarded posts of extremism and exaggeration are confined to a porn forum and nothing else lol.

you completely missed the entire point but at least you agree they should b tried before a court system. The huge problem is the people waterboarded were not found guilty in civilian court OR military court. You seem to miss a few steps in procedure these details are important. You find someone guilty THEN you punish them not the other way around.

again you completely miss the point, the punishment has nothing to do with the problem. Killing someone is hardly punishment. What you fail to realise is most people aren't opposed to torture or killing terrorists, fill up their rectums with goat testicles , i could care less, chop off their hands and feet whatever .. the point is FOLLOW THE DAMN LAWS



the part thats hard to understand is how you equate 30% reliance on outside oil to no wars, there was plenty of wars during the carter administration. so your statement of if we don't want wars we should go to a time when we relied on 30% oil and there was lots of wars makes no sense.

haha that's such a joke

it could be true. after all once the guy is executed, there is no more investigating done so no new evidence would be found to realize he may be innocent.

political boards are "segregated" so you never have to worry about running into an opossing opinion. its pretty funny. a bunch of people with sore necks from agreeing with each other so much.

vendzilla will never realize this. he tries to act too hard to see the common sense right before his eyes. sure, it would be nice to shoot first and ask questions later but that is not what a civilized society does. he gets all defensive saying i said his thinking is that of a terrorist, well when you think you have the right to strike back by any means when you have been struck, yeah that is how a terrorist thinks. sorry. he just gets all butthurt instead of seeing how hypocritical he is. the sad thing is that he doesn't seem to care if they are innocent or guilty, as long as they represent that symbol that he hates so much and wants to destroy.

its really just gullibility, these people need someone to hate and fear - FOX News tells them to hate all Muslims and they believe it. Small minds need to hate and they are giving their marching orders from the higher ups...who are they to question their orders?

:1orglaugh:1orglaugh:1orglaugh:1orglaugh:1orglaugh :1orglaugh

moron x5

You failed to mention that the water boarding of Khalid Sheikh Mohammed was effective, not to mention the positive outcome of it. By his own admission, the fact that we water boarded him allowed him to give us information without betraying his religious faith. That information in turn saved lives..millions of them. Information we would have never gained if it hadn't been for techniques such as water boarding. To say this guy was "innocent" well, is just flat out wrong. If you remember a few years back there was a viral video on the net of an American being beheaded. Al Qaeda had it all over their site. That person was Wall Street Journal reporter Daniel Pearl. Well, Khalid Sheikh Mohammed admitted he did it.

I hate to be the one to break it to ya, but radical Islamists torture our troops and our prisoners of war...regularly. Their hatred of us is so deeply rooted alot of times it's for the pure sport of it This has been well documented by the way. Waterboarding is tickling them compared to what they do when one of ours is captured.
All the theories and feel good philosophies about "reasoning" with terrorists are just nice, warm and fuzzy in a theoretical world. In the real world, they aren't practical. It's humorous watching how enamored liberals get at the mere mention of the name G.W. Bush. Historians will eventually document his time in office with far more positives than negatives. This will surely piss off the 20% of the populous that has this never ending hard-on for him. :2 cents:

How about documenting your claims of torture of troops .. regularly ....
And with your thinking, why should they not do it to " extract " information that can give them info that would "... saved lives..millions of them " ....

Welcome back fake nick motherfucker - I got your ass banned last time...Now you want to tangle some more you clown? Glad you don't care about ever getting your old nick back (according to the new rules). Have fun starting over with 31 posts.

NOW about your opinion that the torture of prisoners "was effective" and "had a positive outcome" - It's well documented that the torture of prisoners does NOT produced any useful intel - NOT NOW, NOT EVER. The prisoner will say ANYTHING to get the torture to stop.

"Millions" of lives were saved? You have got to be kidding me? You are regurgitating a LIE - it was spread by FOX News... No lives were saved with the intel from KSM. ZERO

Fox News runs with dubious claim that KSM's interrogation thwarted L.A. plot

Fox News hosts and contributors have advanced the assertion that the use of harsh interrogation techniques on Khalid Shaikh Mohammed "stopped an attack on the Library Tower in Los Angeles." But the Bush administration said that the attack was thwarted in February 2002 -- more than a year before Mohammed was captured.
In recent days, several Fox News hosts and contributors have advanced the claim by former Bush speechwriter Marc A. Thiessen that the use of harsh interrogation techniques -- including waterboarding -- on Khalid Shaikh Mohammed "stopped an attack on the Library Tower in Los Angeles." But the claim conflicts with the chronology of events put forth on multiple occasions by the Bush administration, as Slate.com's Timothy Noah has noted. Indeed, the Bush administration said that the Library Tower attack was thwarted in February 2002 -- more than a year before Mohammed was captured in March 2003.
During an interview with Thiessen on the April 17 edition of Fox News' The Live Desk, co-host Rick Folbaum stated, "We haven't had a terror attack since 9-11 here in the United States. Might these techniques have been the reason that we haven't been attacked since then?" Thiessen responded, "It absolutely is. This attack -- this program stopped an attack on the Library Towers in Los Angeles." Neither Folbaum nor co-host Martha MacCallum challenged Thiessen's claim. Later, former federal prosecutor John Flannery said, "[T]he truth is people will say anything when they're tortured, including that the program worked." Thiessen replied, "That's absolutely false. ... The interrogation of Khalid Shaikh Mohammed -- the interrogation of Salid [sic] Shaikh Mohammed led to the capture of a cell of Jemaah Islamiyah terrorists who were planning to hijack a plane and fly it into the Library Tower in Los Angeles. And if it had not been for this program, there would be a hole in the ground in Los Angeles to match the one in New York City."



http://mediamatters.org/research/200904220032


Your are merely restating the LIES that FOX has told you - it's well documented from the ACTUAL INTERROGATORS that torture does not work. AND even if it did - this is the United States of America - are you forgetting that? We signed the Geneva Convention REMEMBER?

This is the USA, WE DO NOT TORTURE - WE are different than the terrorists, we are NOT THE SAME, we believe in the RULE OF LAW, we believe in HUMAN RIGHTS (or we used to). We hold ourselves to a HIGHER STANDARD Even if there are some idiots getting on planes with bombs WE DO NOT TOTURE.

Your statement of "NOT NOW, NOT EVER" is pigshit.

While it is true that a prisoner may say anything...that is one of the purposes...to get the prisoner to talking. What he says can be interpreted and often verified. The reason that a person would be waterboarded time and time again is because the truth is being separated from lies.

Torture works...as every single American POW...including Senator McCain...that was tortured by the Vietnamese knows. Every single one of them...other than a few that held out until death...submitted to the will of their captors...and signed or did whatever their captors wanted them to say or do.

Actually, YOU are a prime example of what's wrong with this country and I think about the entire population of GFY will back me up on this...

All your posts sound like you're an angry mad man. You associate things the way you want, you only see what you want to see, and you constantly berate people on this forum for their opinions and points of view. And by berate I mean just rip on people using whatever language you feel will get your point across but in reality you come off sounding like a complete asshole.

In fact, there is no way, ever... at any point... would I EVER consider doing business with you JUST from your attitude towards others on GFY. Your actions are self defeating and display a complete lack of self control as well as zero ability to process information logically and reasonably.

So lets assume that torture works (it's well documented that it does not produce useful intel - only fabricated stories of what the captor THINKS the interrogators want to hear) But for the sake of conversation, lets say it works... You seem like a patriotic American male - you're "TheKing" (which is odd) from the "Good ol USA"... Do you have any idea the DAMAGE to this nation (the fact that we now disregard international law and torture our prisoners) has done to this country. Do you realize that we have LOST all credibility as being a free and fair and just society in the eyes of the world?

Also let me ask you this - Do you travel internationally? I do - I'm a surfer (actual waves) and every year I travel to Muslim countries to find the best waves - MY LIFE is at risk due to the policies of War Criminal GW Bush. I have been in situations where my life was threatened just for being an American... This is a direct result of the War Crimes being committed at Gitmo.

You right wing cunts have no idea what its like to leave the US and be UNIVERSALLY hated (not feared) by other countries... Most of you guys don't leave your counties let alone country.

BTW...in every war...torture is used by members of the military when expediency dictates its use. Is it policy no...is it reality...yes.

Who cares?
Not me

You think I'm an asshole - ok I can live with that.. But I have no problem processing information logically and reasonably.. I started out a nice guy on GFY - then I got RIPPED a new asshole by all you right wingers.. I was called every name in the book for my views by all you logical and reasonable GFYers - I learned quickly that this is a place where you get destroyed for your political beliefs - and guess what I BITE BACK - deal with it you big pussy.. I'm not a wimpy liberal who is going to sit back and let people shit on me and not fight back.. I'm a product of the viciousness here, I didn't start it.

As for doing biz with me - I'm a shooter with some of the industries top dogs wanting my content.. You couldn't afford me.

Once again, drawing conclusions and spewing forth rubbish based on emotional jerk reactions without ever inquiring, much less paying attention to, the facts.

To start, I'm not a right winger, I'm a Libertarian. Given the history of the term, any self respecting Libertarian would have been sitting to the left in the French Legislative Assembly. However more accurately, I suppose, is that Libertarians aren't any wing. We don't claim to know how best to regulate everyone in a country because we believe it not only to be impossible but also to be an infringements on the natural born rights of every human being alive.

Republicrats, Communists, Socialists, and Fascists are all busy telling everyone the "best way to live" and what the "correct set" of morals are and how everything should be "fair" all the while fighting themselves for what the best "fair" actually is... Libertarians stand opposed to the notion that any one group of peoples' vision is "fair" and further more believe that to impose a given set of subjective laws on a people is unjust and rails against the inalienable rights of everyone.

But I digress... my point is, you didn't even both to find out before you cry out, "then I got RIPPED a new asshole by all you right wingers..[.]"

You've already invalidated anything you have to say by basing your post on incorrect information. Then, as if to back up your point, you write:

"and guess what I BITE BACK - deal with it you big pussy.. I'm not a wimpy liberal who is going to sit back and let people shit on me and not fight back.."

Resorting to typical middle school behavior you call me a "big pussy"...

"I'm a product of the viciousness here, I didn't start it."

Do you even realize how childish you sound?

And as for doing biz... I don't really have a need for content, being on the affiliate side of things but as for affording you... you don't even know who I am, much less how much capital I have. Once again, you show that you definitely have a problem processing information logically; your entire post was a knee jerk reaction.

Libertarian??? HAHAH thats as right wing as you can get!


Funny thing BestXXXPorn - I just saw a bunch of my content on your site - unlike you I don't decide who to do biz with based on their political beliefs, if I did I would contact my clients (your sponsors) and ask them to yank your account.

http://www.la-articles.org.uk/pc.htm

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Libertarianism
"Also noted is that libertarianism is not a "right-wing" doctrine..."

Once again, you don't even bother to investigate anything at all... You don't even understand what you're arguing because you aren't familiar enough with what it represents. You've already formulated what you think is "correct" and there is nothing anyone says that's going to change your mind. Even though you are, without a doubt, incorrect... Libertarians are not right-wing. I even broke out an extended explanation as to why...

And I would never be so bold as to tell a sponsor who to buy their content from. I may recommend someone I think is fantastic, does excellent work, and is great to work with but in the same respect, what I'm saying here, is you would never be recommended by me. Heartbreaking I'm sure but I'm just one of... probably more than a few on here that would be wary to do business with you because of the way you present yourself in a public forum.

See, I'm not basing who I do business with on political beliefs at all. In fact I know many people across all political affiliations and do great business with them. I DO, however, base "who I do business with" on how they represent themselves and what kind of person they are. Your posts here tell me you are misinformed, you jump to conclusions, you resort to childish name calling, and you don't bother to investigate anything if you even THINK you know the answer... those are the exact traits I stay away from when choosing who to do business with. They are most certainly not characteristics of someone who is stable and/or dependable... and that's what you're conveying to every GFY member.

Yea I'm brash and get pissed and lash back at people who post their vile hatred and racism on here - but lets be honest here - you are taking issue with me over my ideology not my conversational style...

I don't bother to investigate anything?? You think I am not well versed in the viewpoints of the Libertarian Party of 2010?
I know DAMN well what the majority of todays Libertarians stand for - and it's FAR RIGHT by TODAYS definition of what it means to be right or left (not the days of the French Revolution)... You know that, we all do.

It's really not... I'm not saying Wikipedia is 100% correct but it's certainly a much more viable source of information than just about anywhere else online :P In addition I linked you an entire article about the fact as well as expounded on the main reason myself. I will also tell you that I AM a Libertarian and I'm saying I'm not a right-winger. I'm not sure how much more proof you need, LOL

Currently the far right is reserved for; nationalists, religious extremists, fascists, and nazis... no Libertarians in that crowd ;)

In fact, "The US Department of Homeland Security defines right-wing extremism as hate groups who target racial, ethnic or religious minorities and may be dedicated to a single issue, such as opposition to abortion or immigration."

That's about as far away from Libertarians as you can possibly get, hahah.

Maybe if you told me WHY you think Libertarians are right-wingers I could understand why you hold that association. What I'm guessing is you see the right-wing as supporting a freer market and private property rights... these are indeed Libertarian core values but you need to also take into account all those things Libertarians do NOT support. Additionally there is even a "Right-wing Libertarian" separate affiliation... If the Libertarian party was considered right-wing then there would be no need for the distinction...

if we just randomly torture people walking down the street chances it would be effective, on the other hand we would create thousands of disgruntled innocent people who now hate us.. perhaps you can see where this is going. so one terrorist was stopped by torture, but you may have now created 10 terrorists out of the innocent people that were mistakenly tortured. news out of the uk is they just settled with many of the tortured detainees to the tune of millions of dollars. So many of those tortured at gitmo are now walking the streets pissed the fuck off with millions of dollars in their pockets.. great work..




That sounds umm like bullshit..

you are the only one who has said that so far.


lets say radical islamists are cannibals, should we start eating people suspected of terrorism ?
yet nobody has suggested this but you... nobody has suggested "reasoning" with terrorists at all, you made it up. What many are suggesting is you first find out if they are terrorists BEFORE you torture them perhaps. You seem to be lacking in order of things , which is why many of the tortured "supposed" terrorists are walking the streets right now.

SLutboat is a prime example of someone too stupid to make a living so he designs porn galleries. (Note: That's not an insult to the intelligent ones that do it).

I'm surprised this dumbass isn't banned yet.

Three people that were detained at Gitmo were subjected to "enhanced" interrogation...namely waterboarding. Enhanced interrogation techniques were outlawed after those three were subjected to it.

I have never designed a gallery - where did you get that? I'm a shooter (and talent) - did my first adult shoot in 1989 btw. I shoot for some of the top sites. What are you exactly? OH YEA - just a harmless troll.

You make the incorrect assumption that because my conversational style is confrontational and I'm known to sling some mud that I am uneducated, and you make the totally silly gesture of referring to Wiki to show me what the definition of Libertarian is. As if that would have any relevance to what the values that the majority of the followers of todays Libertarian leaders hold.

Your assumption that I don't know the history of Libertarianism, as well as what it means to be Libertarian in 2010 is utterly and completely incorrect. As a Poli-Sci major I had Professors who leaned Libertarian and I have followed the advance of Libertarianism from the earliest days right up to the rise of Ron Paul. Right now I have a very good friend who is a staunch Libertarian and have had long conversations for hours on what he believes is a good path for this society to lead towards. (it's incredibly kooky) I'm well versed in the various characters and ideologies that have been advanced by Libertarians over the years, my parents are both educators and political activists and I have been involved in various political arenas since the mid 80's. SO my point is - you don't need to show me links on Wiki to try to get others here on GFY who are less educated politically to think I don't know what I'm talking about...and trust me - it's NOT just me who perceives the Libertarian value system as ranging from right wing to FAR right wing to EXTREME right wing.

Your attempts to classify yourself as "Libertarian" but "not right wing" remind me of Sally Rand talking about how the Republican Party is the party of Dr. Martin Luther King Jr. and thus the party of equal rights. What a joke. The Republican Party of 2010 is at its core a racist organization. The Tea Party is even more extreme in it's overt racism and bigotry. Libertarians are not as overt in their racism and they have a much more level headed platform. But the driving force behind the movement is the same.. extreme racism and greed.

Libertarian's mantra is: Minimum Government - Maximum Freedom... This is in its essence a racist and exclusionary ideology. This is pure Timothy McVeigh shit. It's as FAR RIGHT as you can get...

So you ask - why do I think Libertarianism is fueled by racism? Many Libertarians want to abolish the public school system and end welfare for the inner city African American population. Think for a second what that could mean on a purely logistical level. The slums and ghettos would instantly get far worse, crime would escalate beyond control.. Disaster...Libertarians are talking about setting us back 50 years on the gains we have made for racial equality in this nation.

The biggest reason people are converting to Libertarianism is the issue of illegal immigration - in my opinion the Libertarian Party's stance on immigration is despicable and racist to it's core. Most all of us are immigrants to this nation in recent family history (our grandparents or their parents at least) this nation is founded as a melting pot and a beacon of freedom to all people. The nearly all white Libertarian Party has a record of abominable statements from it's leaders about keeping the dreaded brown people out.

When it comes to women's rights the views of most Libertarians are even more extreme and out of the mainstream. Ron Paul supposedly wants a smaller government? Yet he wants to allow states to create laws to throw women in JAIL for controlling their own reproduction. He wants states to be able to make laws to FORCE 14 year old girls to have their RAPISTS babies. This is pure lunacy.

Rand Paul wants to give restaurant owners the right to put up signs that read "WHITES ONLY" - great.. let's turn back the clock a few decades on racial equality.

The only other driving force behind Libertarianism is pure unadulterated greed - You want to pay less taxes or preferably no taxes. This is why the Libertarian Party is comprised of mostly upper middle class to the very wealthy. Who gives a shit about the welfare mother with two babies right Mr. Libertarian? You want to keep ALL your money...

My good friend the Libertarian explains his fantastically utopian vision for society that is so crazed it's no wonder that no matter how hard they try, Libertarians do not even have a seat at the table when it comes to political discourse these days. His vision of Libertarianism is that we need to privatize the police force and schools and jails and fire departments and give each community the right to form their own Militias. This fantasy is so far out there and SO FAR RIGHT that it enters the realm of science fiction.

When I asked my Libertarian friend about how the inner city black kids would get their education, his reply was "Libertarianism is about freedom, if they don't like the private schools they have then they are free to go back to Africa".

Now Mr. BestXXXporn guy - you seem like a very intelligent person, you are more cool and calm than me and I respect your conversational style so you wont get any name calling from me.. But tell me - how do you justify the far right positions of your Party and still have the audacity to claim that you are not right wing?

A way to go America! If you got no one guilty to kill, you will kill innocent ppl, because someone has to be punished.


I'm talking about your government of course, no offense please.