BareBacked

Lets start with $663.7 billion (+12.7%) ? Department of Defense (including Overseas Contingency Operations)

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Paul Markham

The unemployed are unemployed because the US imports goods it used to make. The bosses find it cheaper to make it in the third world.

Welfare goes to people who spend it on food, rent, heating and essentials. Imagine the chaos if they can't afford that. And all that money goes back into their local community. They buy very little manufactured outside the US compared with those not on welfare.

Look at my graphs and tell me the President who cut the budget in the last 30 years.

The only way out of this mess is to employ the unemployed making goods to export. How do you think China has become the second largest economy in the world?

Yes by filling your shops with goods you used to make.

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wig

Hey Ant. Just passing through.

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TheDoc

How is that hard to understand?

Have you never reduced the cost of one department in your company before, even though the costs of business are still going up? That's still a reduction, it is without question a cut.... even though your 'other costs' increased - it doesn't mean you authorized 'more' to be spent either.

Come on people.... this isn't highschool math or anything.

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xenigo

Agreed. But let's hear what our government spending authority 12Clicks has to say on the subject. I'm on the edge of my seat... sort of how I anticipate listening to Rush Limbaugh or Bill O'Reilly. I have to prepare myself with a vomit bag...

12clicks

Silly kid, I'm never wrong. Ever.
Now run along and get a chart of the total budget, not a chart showing discretionary spending.

Idiot

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wig

If it's any consolation, I understood what you said.

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xenigo

You're wrong. And I love how there's never any factual rebuttal, never any facts from you at all, just simplistic name calling. That's all you're capable of when it comes to arguing a point.

Go find the chart you're looking for... I already looked at the top ten results for government spending and every single fucking one of them confirmed what I already said in my first post.

All you can do is say "you're wrong, idiot". Did you attend the SleazyDouche School of Forum Trolling?

Anthony

I think you nailed it on the head earlier, either we raise taxes, cut abroad, or at home. There are inherent risks of lessening our presence in the oil rich middle east. At this point, there is zero hope unless we get this under control. I'm not a fan of 2012 will see an upsurge bullshit propaganda being spewed.

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12clicks

Dear idiot, when your credit card bill is $10k one month so you stop buying beer and instead buy wine and next months bill is $11k, you didn't cut spending.
An idiot like yourself would say you cut beer spending but that's all you can expect an idiot to say

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BareBacked

* Mandatory spending: $2.009 trillion (-20.1%)
o $695 billion (+4.9%) – Social Security
o $571 billion (−15.2%) – Other mandatory programs
o $453 billion (+6.6%) – Medicare
o $290 billion (+12.0%) – Medicaid
o $164 billion (+18.0%) – Interest on National Debt
o $11 billion (+275%) – Potential disaster costs
o $0 billion (−100%) – Troubled Asset Relief Program (TARP)
o $0 billion (−100%) – Financial stabilization efforts





Discretionary spending: $1.368 trillion (+13.1%)


# $663.7 billion (+12.7%) – Department of Defense (including Overseas Contingency Operations)
# $78.7 billion (−1.7%) – Department of Health and Human Services
# $72.5 billion (+2.8%) – Department of Transportation
# $52.5 billion (+10.3%) – Department of Veterans Affairs
# $51.7 billion (+40.9%) – Department of State and Other International Programs
# $47.5 billion (+18.5%) – Department of Housing and Urban Development
# $46.7 billion (+12.8%) – Department of Education
# $42.7 billion (+1.2%) – Department of Homeland Security
# $26.3 billion (−0.4%) – Department of Energy
# $26.0 billion (+8.8%) – Department of Agriculture
# $23.9 billion (−6.3%) – Department of Justice
# $18.7 billion (+5.1%) – National Aeronautics and Space Administration
# $13.8 billion (+48.4%) – Department of Commerce
# $13.3 billion (+4.7%) – Department of Labor
# $13.3 billion (+4.7%) – Department of the Treasury
# $12.0 billion (+6.2%) – Department of the Interior
# $10.5 billion (+34.6%) – Environmental Protection Agency
# $9.7 billion (+10.2%) – Social Security Administration
# $7.0 billion (+1.4%) – National Science Foundation
# $5.1 billion (−3.8%) – Corps of Engineers
# $5.0 billion (+100%) – National Infrastructure Bank
# $1.1 billion (+22.2%) – Corporation for National and Community Service
# $0.7 billion (0.0%) – Small Business Administration
# $0.6 billion (−14.3%) – General Services Administration

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12clicks

Thanks for proving me right, bareback

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12clicks

Ok children, I'm off to enjoy valentine's day dinner. Keep thinking you're right and that down is up

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TheDoc

Hahaha, leave it to 12clicks to take something like the entire U.S. economy, our deficit, fed spending, and the budget and wrap up into a credit card example, a very stupid one at that.

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TheDoc

Show up anytime, it helps tell us how correct we are.

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wig

Personally, I think Obama is generally doing the right thing. And, he’s doing exactly what Bush started doing once the crisis hit.

IOW, it is not complete idiocy to spend AND cut taxes (fiscal policy), AND inject liquidity into the system (monetary policy). There is a real threat that putting on the brakes – raising taxes, cutting spending, tightening money -- will send the economy into a deflationary tailspin where the best case is we end up with a Japan style deflation and the worse case that we witness a global deflation / depression (when the US sneezes, the world catches a cold).

I know there are a few people who advocate both slashing spending and having the FED stop what they are doing (ie; quantitative easing), and there is certainly global pressure to reign in the spending, protect the dollar, etc.

In the first case I think that these advocates don’t believe the threat I described is real (or more likely don't understand it), and in the second case these people have conflicting goals.

It will be interesting to see what happens in 2011 and 2012 as pressure is building within the US to reverse these policies. Right now, these people reside outside mainstream economic thought, although they make a lot of noise.

Either way, it’s going to be a difficult road ahead of us.

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Vendzilla

Where did Obama get even close to cutting 7.2 trillion? I just want the budget to reflect the budget deficit and balance out, so, end the war, pull them out tomorrow
Cut foreign aid.
Cut overseas military bases
Put the troops on the Mexico border
End the bureaucracy thats got a strangle hold on small business, you know, things like that!

Obama agrees that small business needs help, he's just not going to do what needs to be done.
Obama agrees we need to cut the budget, but he wants to cut 7% from the budget deficit, not the overall deficit.

Damn it would be nice to have an actually leader in the white house

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Carbon is not the problem, it makes up 0.041% of our atmosphere , 95% of that is from Volcanos and decomposing plants and stuff. So people in the US are responsible for 13% of the carbon in the atmosphere which 95% is not from Humans, like cars and trucks and stuff and they want to spend trillions to fix it while Solar Panel plants are powered by coal plants
think about that

TheDoc

A leader isn't someone that does something they know without question will never happen thus stopping all progress. If he takes a little from parts of this budget, makes more cuts like he has over the last two years, and hopefully even more aggressive over the next two, and we end the war which has a pull out date.... he will slowly take out bits of it until it's back under control.

Unless you want Obama to be a dictator, this is the process that has to be taken. Understand, that even if you were President, you could not cut everything you want, it wouldn't be approved and you end up exactly where you started.

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Vendzilla

What cuts, the deficit has increased and now he wants to make a new high speed rail, where is that a cut?
He doesn't have to be a dictator to lead, just a leader, he gives good speeches, thats about it, loads of promises, no substance.

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Carbon is not the problem, it makes up 0.041% of our atmosphere , 95% of that is from Volcanos and decomposing plants and stuff. So people in the US are responsible for 13% of the carbon in the atmosphere which 95% is not from Humans, like cars and trucks and stuff and they want to spend trillions to fix it while Solar Panel plants are powered by coal plants
think about that

wig

I like your style!

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sologirlcontent

links pulled

Rochard

Welfare was meant to help people, not support and raise entire families. It's pretty simple - if you hand someone an opportunity to make "$X" for the rest of their life, most people will take it. And they take welfare, Section 8 housing, and other benefits, and they live off of it. They never have to work a day; They might not live well but they don't have to work - Ever.

I have a friend of mine in a similar position. Former US Army, has water on the brain, is considered 100% disabled by the US Army and the state of California. Between the two he makes $4k a month - plenty for a single forty year old man to live off of. When his medical condition affects him, it completely disables him - He can't walk - and this goes on for months at a time. But his medical condition hasn't affected him in the past ten years. Let me re-phrase that - HIS MEDICAL CONDITION HASN'T AFFECTED HIM IN TEN YEARS YET HE COLLECTS $4K A MONTH IN BENEFITS. Why should he get a job when he makes $50k a year being "disabled"?

Do I want to see kids suffer? No, of course not. But why are my tax dollars going to raise entire families of welfare babies? If parents can't care for their children, they get cared for by the state.

But why stop here? My father died in Vietnam in 1969 when I was nine months old. My mother got the usual benefits from the military. But she also got payments from Social Security for having a deceased spouse, and I too, as a child, got benefits until I was eighteen. My mother re-married, and we were rather wealthy growing up with my step father. Between my mother and I we collected $2k a month. That's $25k a year in benefits you paid for with your tax dollars. Social Security for a deceased spouse is a wonderful idea, but should be dropped after a certain threshold - Once a family is making hundreds of thousands a year, these benefits should stop.

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TheDoc

He would have to be a dictator to force the change you expect of him.....

Obama has actually kept a damn good number of his promises and has broken very few. Plenty of sites that track his promises. When we compare his numbers to previous Presidents, Obama is straight up kicking ass. I can't agree with on the no substance part when he has kept his word so much and he's done so much, it has lit the right up - clearly he has some substance - just not the filling your looking for.

The Interstate Highway Project went rather well, was funded by the people, corps, bonds, and very little from our tax dollars, and it created a shit ton of jobs that have lasted through the decades. I can't think of many things that could benefit our Country more than going with high speed rail, in every aspect of the economy, jobs and even the deficit.

You have a lot of built up hate for Obama... he isn't any different than the last like 8 Presidents..

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Vendzilla

I love how the only way someone can boost up Obama is to compare him to fails of the past, I don't give a shit about how we got here, I want someone with some fucking intelligence to fix the problem

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Carbon is not the problem, it makes up 0.041% of our atmosphere , 95% of that is from Volcanos and decomposing plants and stuff. So people in the US are responsible for 13% of the carbon in the atmosphere which 95% is not from Humans, like cars and trucks and stuff and they want to spend trillions to fix it while Solar Panel plants are powered by coal plants
think about that

Vendzilla

OK, here's how he can fix the economy
first this needs to be changed
The GOP under Ronald Reagan and George H. W. Bush abandoned the protectionist ideology, and came out against quotas and in favor of the GATT/WTO policy of minimal economic barriers to global trade. Free trade with Canada came about as a result of the Canada-U.S. Free Trade Agreement of 1987, which led in 1994 to the North American Free Trade Agreement (NAFTA). It was based on President George H. W. Bush's plan to enlarge the scope of the market for American firms to include Canada and Mexico. US President Bill Clinton, with strong Republican support, pushed NAFTA through Congress over the vehement objection of labor unions. Likewise in 2000 he worked with Republicans to give China entry into WTO and "most favored nation" trading status (i.e., low tariffs). NAFTA and WTO advocates promoted an optimistic vision of the future, with prosperity to be based on intellectuals skills and managerial know-how more than on routine hand labor. They promised that free trade meant lower prices for consumers. Opposition to liberalized trade came increasingly from labor unions, who argued that this system also meant lower wages and fewer jobs for American workers who could not compete against wages of less than a dollar an hour. The shrinking size and diminished political clout of these unions repeatedly left them on the losing side.

I've been pissed about this for years


Then there is the money we spend on foreign countries, I say put that all to a vote!

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Carbon is not the problem, it makes up 0.041% of our atmosphere , 95% of that is from Volcanos and decomposing plants and stuff. So people in the US are responsible for 13% of the carbon in the atmosphere which 95% is not from Humans, like cars and trucks and stuff and they want to spend trillions to fix it while Solar Panel plants are powered by coal plants
think about that

Vendzilla

This is getting into the two party system and I have lost my stomach for it. I saw the interview with Obama and Oreilly, I saw no disrespect, I saw hard questions, that's what I wanted to hear, please tell me one question that he shouldn't have asked?

The great divide as you call it is smoke and mirrors, the GOP I believe has put up what they promised in the repeal effort, it put everyone on notice on the way they voted, now they move on. They are in power of the funding, that's where the real fight will be and they will push to defund it over budget concerns. There will be a big fight over the budget, and Obama will make concesions and tell everyone that when he goes for re-election. I don't give a rats ass what party he is, I don't like him, he has no leadership skills. Reagan worked with Democrats and GOP to get things done, hasn't been a leader in that office since.

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Carbon is not the problem, it makes up 0.041% of our atmosphere , 95% of that is from Volcanos and decomposing plants and stuff. So people in the US are responsible for 13% of the carbon in the atmosphere which 95% is not from Humans, like cars and trucks and stuff and they want to spend trillions to fix it while Solar Panel plants are powered by coal plants
think about that

mynameisjim

It's sort of funny. The top .01% of wage earners controlled the debate so they could get their tax cuts before the country could work on anything else. Quite cleverly, they got poor and middle class people to fight on their behalf. Now they are pushing the debate about the deficit so that the government slashes every program it has instead of asking the wealthy for more tax revenue again in two years.

If you are falling for this stuff, you have no idea how the new political/media clusterfuck actually works. But by all means, keep fighting for people that are looking to fuck over everyone they can.

Here is how it should break down for you.

1)If you make over $250K and don't care about the country, then keep calling for program cuts and tax cuts. This is TOTALLY FINE, but be honest about it and admit that you just want the tax cuts and could care less about the implications. Nothing wrong with the choice, but be honest about it.

2) If you make over $250K and you actually care about the country, you understand that taxes have to go up.

3) You make less than $250K so you should DEMAND that the two groups above start paying more taxes.

You need to pick one of those three groups to be in. They are all perfectly fine choices, but you have to choose one.

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Vendzilla

OK, just so you know ,you being a little slow in economics and MATH, the population of the US is about 308 million, so .01% of that number is about 30800 people, you credit 30k for the bad economy on the taxes paid of 30k those people?

11 million people in the US are illegal Aliens, they pay no taxes, they live on welfare with anchor babies and cost the country billions of dollars annually, maybe those numbers are easier? and that number is low I think!

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Carbon is not the problem, it makes up 0.041% of our atmosphere , 95% of that is from Volcanos and decomposing plants and stuff. So people in the US are responsible for 13% of the carbon in the atmosphere which 95% is not from Humans, like cars and trucks and stuff and they want to spend trillions to fix it while Solar Panel plants are powered by coal plants
think about that

tony286

Reagan raised taxes in fact the highest tax increases in peacetime and ran up a huge deficit which we had none before.

Vendzilla

Again, what question, he was told before the debate what he couldn't ask

But he worked with them, no matter the manner in which he did it, he did do it, Obama chooses to ignore the opposing side. I don't play left or right, people think because I hate Barry I'm a right winger, no, I just hate a bad leader. I liked Cinton, didnt care for either Bush and was pissed at Carter for being a moron because he served on a US submarine in the Navy.
A good government works with balance, we have not had any of that in over a decade.

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Carbon is not the problem, it makes up 0.041% of our atmosphere , 95% of that is from Volcanos and decomposing plants and stuff. So people in the US are responsible for 13% of the carbon in the atmosphere which 95% is not from Humans, like cars and trucks and stuff and they want to spend trillions to fix it while Solar Panel plants are powered by coal plants
think about that

Vendzilla

But he bankrupted the USSR ending the cold war, good trade off.

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Carbon is not the problem, it makes up 0.041% of our atmosphere , 95% of that is from Volcanos and decomposing plants and stuff. So people in the US are responsible for 13% of the carbon in the atmosphere which 95% is not from Humans, like cars and trucks and stuff and they want to spend trillions to fix it while Solar Panel plants are powered by coal plants
think about that

tony286

actually alot of illegals pay taxes to fake accounts they see no benefit from. Instead of blaming the mexicans who come here looking for work. Why don't you call for the head of the people that hire them? No work they wouldn't come here.

Dodododa

I don't know what you're all worried about. The US$ will rapidly depreciate in value, which will decrease the value of the debt and help US exports. Just go long AUD/USD and you'll come out on top.

tony286

hate to burst your balloon but Gorbachev ended Communist rule not Reagan.
http://www.usnews.com/opinion/articl...the-cold-war-2
The guy who says it was Reagan's Ambassador to the USSR

tony286

tony286

everyone loves cuts until they affect them.
Also to be fair if I hear Barry say one more time so the US worker can compete with anyworker in the world. I want to fucking scream. How can the US worker compete when the global worker has gov healthcare so the corporations dont have to pay for it and that they make 30 cents an hour. It will never never happen plan on 10 percent unemployment being the new normal.

scuba steve

i could be wrong, but i remember reading our oil isn't supplied by the middle east, just paid to them. comes from south america for less transportation costs. its like this weird trade off. we pay them, and they send a shipment from south america so we don't do business directly with chavez.

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tony286

sorry was busy all day so Im making up for lost time. lol High speed rails bring jobs here and the places those trains to go to. The chinese have high speed rails and they plan to be energy independent in 10 yrs. Hey we wont have shit but we will have a low deficit and 25 % unemployment.

Clean_Franck

12 clicks getting owned again?

boy he sure is turning into paul markham these days.

Barry-xlovecam

Won't happen.

The politicians don't have the balls to do anything real about this ...

mynameisjim

Actually, about 100 people tanked the economy with the banking, morgtage, and credit default swap scams. The number is actually probably much lower than that.

But do you really think that poor people have so much power that they can ruin a country and the wealthy people at the top with all the money are powerless to stop it? That's the dumbest thing ever. The wealthy trick you into blaming poor people or other immigrants to take the heat off of themselves. The wealthy at the very top are running off will all the money, they collapsed the banks and made huge profits, they shipped all your jobs over seas. Why do you blame the poor people and immigrants. They have ZERO power and influence, they can't ruin anything if they wanted to. It's just a smoke screen.

The wealthy want those immigrants in the country because they depress wages. Stop blaming the poor people, it's the wealthy that do all the damage to this country.

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Rangermoore

Thanks obama...You da man...

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Paul Markham

If you take that much money out of the system the results might be a lot worse than some think.

The days of full employment in proper jobs are over. Look at how many people it took to make a car 15 years ago and compare it with today. Automation and computerisation have made millions unemployed in manufacturing. This has happened in most industries.

Then there's the export of jobs to 3rd World Countries. How many times do you phone a call center and speak to someone in India?

Look at these countries to see what exporting jobs means.

Czech.

Yes steady growth.

India.

And if you look around the World you see the same pattern and it's not new. How did Japan get to be such a thriving economy? Yes by exporting cars, electrical goods and other things OUT of the country.

We were sold the myth that the West would replace these jobs with technical jobs. That was wrong. China is now putting men into space and Japan is leading on technical advancement. China 40 years ago couldn't feed itself, Japan was devastated after WW2. They both grew by EXPORTING.

We were sold the myth that they would only be making cheap goods and we would remain at the top by the powers of technology. Welcome to the truth.

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12clicks

yeah, just like a kindergarten teacher getting owned by a 6 yr old over 2+2

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Vendzilla

You mean like Reagan did? With the Immigration Reform and Control Act of 1986? It's the assholes we have had since that don't have the balls to go after them!

Gorby didn't have a choice, his country was bankrupt! Sort of like what Osama Bin Laden has done to this country, damn he must be proud!

Fucking presidents whittling away at Tariffs, NAFTA, then including china, fuck those asshats for that!

I completely agree, it's a fucking joke, we have Amtrak and it has to be federally funded

Dude, I was making fun of you, I thought you would see that, you stated that it was the top .01%, when it's the top 1% that they are arguing about, BIG difference!

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Carbon is not the problem, it makes up 0.041% of our atmosphere , 95% of that is from Volcanos and decomposing plants and stuff. So people in the US are responsible for 13% of the carbon in the atmosphere which 95% is not from Humans, like cars and trucks and stuff and they want to spend trillions to fix it while Solar Panel plants are powered by coal plants
think about that

Vendzilla

Most memorable question of the night? O?Reilly asked, ?does it bother you that so many people hate you?? O?Reilly later called his interview style ?suitably confrontational in a friendly way.?

http://thelastword.msnbc.msn.com/_ne...game-interview

He asked the same question to Bush during his interview with him, where was your outrage then?


Better than ignoring them

Um, right, you actually believe that? 12 to 24% depending on where you get your news believe that he is Muslim, I believe that he WAS a Muslim, he was RAISED Muslim and thats part of his life, he then became a Christian, How to I believe that, same thing happened with the Minister that Baptized my daughter! People can convert, But Barry converted to that Racist asshole minister Rev. Jeremiah Wright which I found to be more troubling.
So back to to the 12 to 24%, how is that the Shellacking as Barry calls it going to be the MAJORITY?
Face it Barry's politics are pissing off people

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Carbon is not the problem, it makes up 0.041% of our atmosphere , 95% of that is from Volcanos and decomposing plants and stuff. So people in the US are responsible for 13% of the carbon in the atmosphere which 95% is not from Humans, like cars and trucks and stuff and they want to spend trillions to fix it while Solar Panel plants are powered by coal plants
think about that

Paul Markham

What the unemployed are paid is questionable, but they have to be paid or found jobs. The chances of them getting jobs in manufacturing today are not good. Exporting jobs and automation has changed the dynamics.
Silicon Valley is shrinking

Government study shows the number of hi-tech jobs in the valley declined by 16.5 percent between 2001 and 2008

The number of high-tech jobs in all industries Silicon Valley declined by 86,000, or 16.5 percent, between 2001 and 2008, according a federal study of employment trends in the valley.

Read some more.

Not yet, will they is the question.

Dumbest part of your post. Sorry but it's not the end game yet. Those countries are on the rise and only time will tell if they create companies like those you name. I saw the same attitude when Japanese car makers started making cars. "They'll never make a car as goos as we do!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!"

I started work in 1965 at the age of 15, was working weekends before then as I was still officially at school. Worked right the way through to 2008. 43 years of continual employment. I'm one of the people paying taxes to support those who can't find a job. Well I was while I worked.

I think we need to give the unemployed jobs to do sweeping the streets, mowing lawns of public buildings, assisting old and infirm people and other jobs. In return for their welfare checks. Because no country can afford the political or civil consequences of having vast numbers of unemployed.

It was very different when I left school. The jobs in manufacturing were there to take. Today it's very different and we need a new mindset. We simply can't employ the number of people that are available in meaningful productive jobs. Service industries might take a lot but not all. Even Silicon Valley isn't doing so great.

But it's nice to see the I'm All Right Jack, So Fuck You" attitude from the short term thinkers on GFY. Imagine what will happen to your incomes if they try do balance the budget by massive cuts.

Our incomes largely rely on Americans signing up with disposable cash, they will go into the toilets if there are massive cuts. Less people with less money to spend = Less Sign Ups.

And that will effect my income.

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tony286

"An estimated 3 million unauthorized immigrants received amnesty under Reagan's program."
if barry did that they would be calling for his head. All this he is destroying the country bullshit. The market is over 12,000 , companies are flush with cash. The middle class isnt needed anymore. They got to get the people all jazzed up like they are on your side. They arent, you are not needed anymore. There is no right and left just corporatists and the sheep they manipulate.

scuba steve

if you don't live in this country paul why do you have such an invested interest in it? you always are quick to criticize, i take it you were that unhappy which is why you left to czech republic anyway? still its like you left, so you have nothing left to do with it. but you love telling others how bad it is

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12clicks

let me hear you baa.

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