12clicks

I told you to run along and play, troll

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Vendzilla

First Tea Party protest was in January of 2009

And as a slap in the face statement, hate to tell you this, the present WI administration campaigned on fixing the budget and talked about how the cost of the state unions were hurting the economy of the state, they won, they control.
The unions are out numbered and according to the Rasmussen polls, they have over a 10 difference, they have the support of the American people.

The big thing here is that if this goes thru, and I believe it will, it will domino with the other states, which has already started, it will kill the power of the unions and kill off the money going to the democrat party, this is a major game changer!!!

In 2006, people wanted change, they got it with Reid and Pelosi, they made it worse, now people want REAL change from their fuck ups,Evidence being the vote last Nov, I really think this is the end of how the democrat party works, if not killing if off completely.



The big thing I see is that the left has always been the rally people, they have always been the get out the vote people, now that the Tea Party has rallied, the left can only bitch and whine about it, claiming Racisim and voilence when there has been studies to prove otherwise. They are acting like children, and no one cares about them anymore.

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Carbon is not the problem, it makes up 0.041% of our atmosphere , 95% of that is from Volcanos and decomposing plants and stuff. So people in the US are responsible for 13% of the carbon in the atmosphere which 95% is not from Humans, like cars and trucks and stuff and they want to spend trillions to fix it while Solar Panel plants are powered by coal plants
think about that

Tom_PM

Thats right. It's all about changing the game. Out of the top 10 donators to political parties, 7 are republican supporters, and 3 are democrat supporters. The 3 democrat supporting donators are Unions. Bust them, and you bust donations to democrats nationally, and you run the game.

Now if only the governors of WI, IN, OH and NJ had the actual balls to be honest about it... But no, they lie to the idiot masses who trudge along behind them like a ghastly parade of zombie's out for fresh brains, which unfortunately they eat rather than insert into their heads.

It's a fight for the death of the "middle class" we're watching here, nothing less.

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43-922-863 Shut up and play your guitar.

_Richard_

funny how the tea party stands for 'small government', yet are backing up walker and his union/democratic busting agenda

Sly

I don't follow what irony you see in that.

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_Richard_

sorry to hear that

_Richard_

sperbonzo

Public sector unions are a different story than private sector unions. If they don't get what they want at the bargaining table they can go to the state legislatures and use the huge political fund reserves available to influence a change in state laws to get what they want, thus effectively going around the bargaining table. No private sector union has this power. (No state can pass a law forcing a private company to pay more, and no vote of the taxpayers can decide what a private company pays).


.

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AsianDivaGirlsWebDude

Gov. Scott Walker (Wisconsin) is a Koch whore - here is an audio recording of Walker talking a few days ago with a person on the other end whom he thinks is anti-union Billionaire David Koch, who is financing much of the tea party "grass roots" anti-union activity:





ADG

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12clicks

no, sorry. the idiot masses were the ones like yourself who wanted obama to take from your betters and give to you.
that was the "change" you voted for. I laugh at what you actually got. An invigorated intelligent voting block called the tea party.
and don't worry about NJ, we'll bust the unions too with full public support.

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_Richard_

that is great?

what does it have to do with a budget deficit created by tax cuts to walkers backers?

there is documents from the financial bureau of wisconsin saying so, what is countering THAT power?

TheDoc

I know, and Obama signed his stimulus plan 10 days before, the protest was dead before that happened.

None of that had to do with the protest or really even future protests.

I'm not sure how Unions, have anything to do with Reid or Pelosi, change, nov, or anything related. Just because you're a member of a Union, does not make you a left/democrat, at all, at any level, at any point, or even a tiny bit.

I know you guys like to think Unions are left/dem, but sorry to tell you, to crush your dreams of unions being these left groups, reality is - they are all over the board.

Studies? Hahaha, bullshit... I've heard it with my own ears, seen it with my own eyes, and watched enough video to know it's without question. And you ignoring it, pretending that it didn't happen shows your true colors.

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_Richard_

of course, according to the rhetoric, the majority apparently voted for this deficit and resulting union busting

not fixing the economy, again, of course. just union busting.

Tom_PM

The tea party chants get the government out of our lives, and smaller government. Now they support a single governor (not even sworn in yet btw) removing rights of individuals because the government knows best. (oh and because they donate to democrats, but dont tell anyone that)

I think I see a hole in their dont tread on me argument.

People seem to forget that Bush left with telling America and the world that our economy was hopelessly broken without his grand stimulus plan. Warning that the recession could turn into a depression. Now watch this drive.

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43-922-863 Shut up and play your guitar.

12clicks

dear idiot, the duly elected governor, house, and senate are all voting on this plan. there is no RIGHT to collective bargaining (regardless of how you pretend). You see, son, the people know best.
Bloated, overpaid, government workers are an evil the tea party is glad to see being handled.

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TheDoc

Wow... we overpay teachers? We overpay the police, fire and state protection services?

So you don't think the people that help build our country and protect our children, don't deserve to have the same working rights as you, wage increases with inflation, family benefits, the ability to make sure they don't get screwed over... they don't deserve the rights you enjoy - simply because they work for the State/Gov?

The people do know best, that's why they're protesting it.

Hey, I've got not problem blaming the tea party for the massive amount of police/firemen that have been laid off and the massive ignoring of our failing infrastructure - hell yeah, this is credit they deserve!

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Tom_PM

This junior governor having his 15 minutes gives tax breaks to corporations with one hand and tries to force public unionized employees* to give up their collective bargaining because of a fairy tale budget crisis with the other.

*except the unions that supported his run for office. Of course.

What are the recall laws in Wisconsin? Wonder how many signatures they've gotten so far.

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43-922-863 Shut up and play your guitar.

Tom_PM

Duh. We overpay everyone who leans democratic. But on the bright side, sales of luxury goods is spiking higher than ever. It's only the poor who think something is wrong. Get with it man.

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43-922-863 Shut up and play your guitar.

Minte

Recall? We just elected this administration to do precisely what they are doing.
And the good news for the taxpayers in this state is that the Governor will win.

You see a group of people making noise on the square. It's less than 1% of the states population. We have been one of the highest taxed stated for decades and that is going to change.

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You might not be as anonymous as you think you are.

marketsmart

you are so dumb, i am surprised you can even manage to breathe....

everything makes sense about you...

at the root, you are nothing more than a dumb republican blue collar worker...

you are mad at the world because you are a dinosaur, an ignorant oaf who got lucky and made a few dollars when adult was easy..

you are on a downward spiral and no matter how hard you try to act the opposite, everyone who has been around for awhile sees through your bullshit...

keep trying to convince yourself that you are relevant...

cross selling is a top notch way to make money...







.

IllTestYourGirls

The public sector unions do not have the right to collectively bargain. That would be called "a special right". They have the right to petition the government just like the rest of us.

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BFT3K

12 Dicks is a total ass clown. He's so proud to be an idiotic flag waving American capitalist, but in the end, all of his 2257 links point to a UK address. Scared of your own government maybe?

tony286

Its funny when the right wins its the people spoke and elections have consequences. When obama won it was he is taking my country. They are pushing things on the american people. Make up your mind which one?
As far as tea party bullshit , we have some of the lowest taxes of any country in the world and a large chunk of the tea party dont pay taxes so what the fuck are they talking about?They were played by the rich. Its sad really.

TheDoc

Looks like they do... when the people don't come back to work, they clearly have collective bargaining power and the State is clearly bargaining with them.

They have the right to stand up fight for what they believe in, just like the rest of us... it makes no difference who they work for.

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$5 submissions

My cable provider carries AL JAZEERA and I do watch it but it strikes me as to the left of CNN.

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12clicks

hahahaha. please, bottom rung chump.
trash like yourself have been saying this for 12yrs.
Its wishful thinking.
I'm smarter than you. Thats why I make the money I make in adult and you don't.
its ok to be envious, little bird.

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NaughtyVisions

Sorry, I'm stuck on "intelligent" and "tea party." Don't they strongly support both Sarah Palin and Christene O'Donnell?

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IllTestYourGirls

So they are willing to hurt the "common good"? Sounds like hypocrites to me. And FYI that is not collective bargaining. And like any person who does not show up for their job, they should be fired.

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TheDoc

Oh if we're doing this for the common good then we wouldn't want our politicians to align with the corporations this greatly benefits....you want to align with the people, that want to be taken care of for the work they've done.

Then fire 50,000 people... clearly Teachers, Firemen and Policemen don't care about the common good.

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IllTestYourGirls

This shows how ignorant of the situation you are. You have no idea what is going on in WI.

Even FDR said that public unions should not have the right to collectively bargain. Why? Because it gives them MORE rights than the average citizen. What happens when you give a group special rights?

Well in WI guess what %the public unions have paid of the pensions that have been paid out in the last 9 or 10 years? A whopping 0.5%! Guess how much of their health care premiums have they paid in the last 9 or 10 years? A whooping 5.0%! Oh those poor bastards!

Do you think leaving the lower and middle classes with a greater tax burden (everyone pays property tax, sales tax ect) and leaving the children they are teaching with 100s of billions of unfunded liability good or bad?

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TheDoc

And guess how much money they lost through the investment scandals that the Republicans help setup? Oh and why doesn't the Republicans go after those that stole the money from bad investment advice, funds, gov/state backed/forced programs that failed and lost everything? Why when it was a surplus did they find the need to screw with money that wasn't theirs?

Why do the people have to suffer for our politicians political blunders and corporate greed?

I think we should tax the living hell out of the elite class to pay back everyone, everything, ect for all the damage they've created. Why in hell would the lower, middle or wealthy class pay for something they never created, started, help, wanted, ect?

It's funny... just the idea you twist this back to the people shows how little you know about the situation, how brainwashed you are about the situation, how much you ignore the real issues just to argue that it's dem/left or rep/right.

You should be backing these people like mad and screaming the state/fed and corps to stop screwing US ALL OVER - Because it's damn sure NOT THE PEOPLE.....

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IllTestYourGirls

I am actually fighting this one from the LEFT. I keep quoting FDR, was he a tea bagger?

So, it is ok to leave 100s of billions in unfunded liabilities to the poor and middle class? We both agree that the rich wont get hurt by all this, yet you keep insisting on taxing and adding to the debt anyway. That does not make any sense.

The people are the ones who will have to pay for this, while the unions only pay 0.5% of their own pensions. Who are the greedy ones?

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TheDoc

Just because FDR is left, doesn't mean I agree with him....In many cases, he is correct... but not always.

It was funded - it was perfectly fine, it was a surplus until it was spent on bad investments and force investments from the State, that people had no choice over. Which was then profited on, and money used to fund other State projects rather than add to the pension, just in case crazy shit like today happens.

So that's actually wtf happened.. greedy bastards spent our damn tax dollars and forced bad investments, that sucked the State dry.. and now you want to punish the exact people that didn't create this problem.

Brilliant... How about, we go get the damn money back from the people that created the mess?

We could tax the living crap out of the elite class and super corporations, without question. And it does not add to the debt more, it collects a hellish amount of money and you fine them when they try to leave the State.

And without question, giving them more tax cuts, when they already have trillions of dollars, isn't going to spark job growth - but it will increase profits while WE continue to pay the damn bills. Bills that are now being transfered to the people, meaning - it will cost US more!

What you're supporting now, is the people losing the ability to stop getting fucked over.... so basically, they can get fucked over even more, have no power to do anything about it, meaning me and you and our kids will end up paying the bill, no mater what....

Why? Because the people in power aren't fixing the problem by taking out union powers and reducing these peoples pay, this only increases the power/money the Fed/State has. This is nothing more than a way for the elite to profit from mine and your tax dollars, even more - that's it... end of story.

Stop supporting this stupidity..

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Minte

The average teacher in Madison earns between 70-80k. They contribute little to nothing for their healthcare coverage or retirement. The average private citizen pays 25%.
They can retire after 30 years of teaching with a full pension. Consider,the average teacher finishes school at age 23. By 53 they retire with pension and ssn. Private citizen retirement is 62 with 75%ssn..65 for the full amount.

For every teacher actually teaching in Madison there are 2 being paid that are retired. As the average life span continues to increase this will only get worse. Business has gone to China. The property taxes are up dramatically.

What solution do you offer?

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RyuLion

Yooooooooooooo!

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Adult Biz Consultant A tech head since 1995

TheDoc

The average Wisconsin teacher salary in 2009-2010 was $52,644.... they start as low as $25k.

Every dollar they make is our tax dollars, so if it costs 25% then we need to do something about that as citizens, don't we?

Teachers are a core backbone of our Country, I think of them as important as our Military personal and should be treated with equal respect for what they do for our Nation.

The State still has a ton of corporations doing business, how about they cut capital gains tax on money brought in that is directly used to create jobs? Say cut it to 2% or nothing? That always sparks huge growth, huge tax revenue collection, and it actually creates jobs and stops them from going overseas.

Then tax the bastards correctly rather than letting super corps that make trillions get away with paying nothing and you damn sure, do not give them MORE tax cuts so they pay less. When the use our services, our people, everything and leave the State nothing but scraps - that's completely pathetic.

Then, start forcing the cost of insurance/medical costs, all around, ground it once and for all rather than pandering to the Insurance companies, making our tax dollars pay them even more money..

Every State in trouble has fallen to this crap in some twisted way... and every single one of the States could correct it by simply not letting the Corporations bend them over anymore. Oh and if they would stop pretending that tax cuts create jobs, that would help too...

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IllTestYourGirls

You live in a dream world. Come back to reality for a second. Taxing the hell out of the rich will NEVER happen. So what you are imposing is that the unions are getting "fucked" over because they are paying 0.5% of their pension while the rest is picked up by the lower and middle class? Come back to reality man.

Then pensions have NEVER been funded.

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_Richard_

greedy? that was the negotiated amount.

so because they went through the motions, they no longer be able to negotiate?

when this blows up in everyones faces down there, will we be taking away the republicans ability to get involved in the government?

TheDoc

The elite have been taxed 98% before, it could happen again if the rest of the classes would start yelling for it.

The union money is our tax dollars either way... paying .5 or all of it, is still our tax dollars, either way. Passing the cost onto the people, is still our tax dollars paying for it. Either way, our tax dollars pay 100% of the cost, directly or indirectly with every single employee of the State or Fed.

All you're doing... is forcing the money into the peoples hands which will have to pay a higher rate for everything to the corporations. Which is our tax dollars, paying more, directly to the super corps, which they are pushing for this so they have more power and you have less.

Yes, the pension funds used to be in positive cash flow... it's only in the last 10 years they started to get hammered.

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IllTestYourGirls

You are wrong. If they pay more into their own pension the less tax money that is spent on pensions. The pensions plan is a ponzi scheme kept afloat by the tax payer. You make the current investors pay more, the less tax money you need to pay for it. It is pretty simple math.

Why do you want the tax payer to be the only one paying for the pension? You are letting 5% of the population directly hinder the other 95%.

A higher rate for everything to the corporations?

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TheDoc

What I stated is not wrong, just like what you stated isn't wrong.

But what you're ignoring is you/me our taxes pay these people, either way. And if those people pay all or none of the pension, it's no different than the union or your tax dollars doing it directly.

It's still your tax dollars, paying 100% of it all, all the time, no mater what direction the money takes.

Every State worker has a massive insurance policy on them, once they die the State and Corps collect on those insurance policies, paying back everything that was ever paid to them. The problem is, that money doesn't go back into the pension fund, it goes to build other projects, just like profits made on pension accounts for the State.

The States are in debt because THEY badly managed OUR tax dollars. Changing this, will not correct the current problem we are having. The States will still continue to badly manage things and later will come ask the people to give up even more... and one day, they'll ask you to give your SS after you've paid into it.

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Minte

$52k is the average salary. The *fringe benefit* package averages $35k. The real cost is in the $70-80k range for teachers in Wisconsin. This is for a 9 month a year position.which in the private sector is considered part time.

The fact remains. Public workers retire at to young of an age. There are to many of them drawing from a system that can not sustain it.

You talk about raising capital gains tax. You obviously don't run a company. The state of WI does not offer any deals to corporations on taxable income. A city can defer property taxes for a period of time to entice a business to build in their community. There are various low interest loans available to build factories with. Those are loans. If you are a minority you can qualify for a few grants. Those are rare.

The only solution for the state is to reduce spending on every level. Raising taxes in a state that historically is one of the highest taxed states in the US will not bring business our way. In the last 8 years WI has lost 6 major corporations to states with lower taxes and wages.

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rabbit

as much as i like the ideals behind tea party movement, unfortunately its been hijacked by those big corporate interests which want less regulation and lower taxes for the rich. in the end tea party will help move wall street's liabilities on to the backs of average americans... as if that's not already being done enough...

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TheDoc

No... I said cut capital gains tax to nothing, if they invest the money. History has already proven this works. Then you can stop giving retarded tax breaks at the city/state, property, ect level and the state actually collect the money from the services the corps are using.

I don't run a company in WI, that is correct.. the companies I do have are the b.s. types of companies we all have here. None of which reach the level of business that would ever quality for a capital gains tax break, none of us have the billions it takes to make it a factor - none of us are in that league.

Every State would instantly profit simply by standing up to Insurance companies, then stopping the crazy ass bleeding of tax dollars to stupid projects that every city/state has, blowing tax dollars on useless projects rather than the last 30 years rebuilding the infrastructure of our Cities, Communities and Transportation.

Then stopping States from privately investing in Corporations just to show massive favoritism to that Corporation and allow them to bully the free market in those states, forcing those Companies that did hire people to leave.

Oh yeah... I can keep going for hours on the damage State leaders have caused the people of this Country. And it sickens me to hear another Americans blaming Americans - when no working american, ever, created the problem we have today - our leaders did by letting corporations suck us all dry.

The biggest business in our Industry, our entire Industry added together, doesn't play at this level, at any point. The elite class are so far past the super wealthy in our nation, it's not even funny. All of us, from Bill Gates down are nothing more than working class, broke bitches to these people.

And you're about to feed them a shit ton more of our tax dollars.

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sperbonzo

I find it bizarre that people in this thread still buy into that Marxist crap about taxing "elites" 98% because they are somehow to blame for all our problems. Ever time this kind of socialism has been tried it has merely succeeded in making everyone, even the middle class, poorer. It always fails for reasons that would require pages of text to go into. I can't believe there are still people that cling to that kind of failed thinking. Could I suggest that you read Ludwig Von Meses and Adam Smith?

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BlackCrayon

i think you mean made.. that generic piece of shit program you have is a total joke.

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TheDoc

A form of Socialism in Canada is kicking our ass right now.

Taxing the elite's, is not socialism, nobody is saying return the wealth they have to the people directly. Socialism would be taking the they money to pay for say... the poor's gas bill or welfare, something like that.. That's not what I'm suggesting - that's not fair or balanced on either side.

Right now, it's not balanced, it's not fair, and Right Now - It's reverse socialism where you are paying them through your taxes and interest and moving your own money... and they aren't paying into anything... an elite doesn't have to start a business to make billions in profits, they don't have to hire anyone, or do business with China or anyone or anything other than Money! All to make billions and trillions in profits, off the Citizens money flow!

It can be fixed... and it would start with the citizens at the State and Local level starting to get serious about what the real problem is in our Country, what is really sucking us all dry.. Greed!

States and Cities investing in crops, money markets, ect with our tax dollars, is crazy bad all around. Then not returning the profits back into the pool but spent on stupid projects. Corps getting more tax breaks after not paying taxes, after profiting billions/trillions across the Country and not hiring anyone but they are rolling the money offshore to show a loss here, to pay no taxes. Screw that...

If we start cutting them off at the local/state level with our tax dollars, that will put more money back into the flow for the citizens. Right now, the money is going up and out.... if it doesn't stay moving, we take the damage locally - just like we are.

This isn't about socialism... our system is being exploited to death, at every corner, angle, degree, ect from the super elite and super corporations, they are funding the damn fight to take away the union power. They already profit billions/trillions and this will do nothing but allow them to profit more ..... while YOU/ME/Citziens pay the same damn amount, to the teachers/police, ect - and our same tax dollars paying the same shit as it was - while they pay even less.

That... is not fair, balanced, and I'm not even sure how the hell it's legal - we're being sucked dry here, and it's this is probably the largest power slap the Country has seen in decades.

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_Richard_

we refer it to capitalism-socialism, no need to label us with those... labels..

12clicks

the rich pay for almost everything already. its long past time for the middle class and poor to chip in. Even though its barely more than symbolic

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_Richard_

cost of doing business, no?