How likely is another Great Depression in the USA? - Page 3 - GoFuckYourself.com

$5 submissions · 06-10-2011, 03:11 PM

Anyone see the Bilderberg list for this year. Interesting pattern.

MrMaxwell · 06-10-2011, 03:21 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by wig

Mr Maxwell, you won't be running for office then??

No no... I make too much sense

Our currency wouldn't be printed at will (well.. I could not reverse that right away because we HAVE TO print to pay interest on debt... just like you can't turn a cruise liner on a dime..) I would start turning the wheel in the right direction

I'd gut entitlement programs and lazy bums would stop getting good peoples money. No more stealing, period.

I'd limit as much as I could the rape of social security

I'd make as much progress toward making it POSSIBLE for businesses to do business here (lower business taxes to lure them back) ... which also can't happen over night

Then there are some other changes like letting Americans own firearms and allowing women to be topless in public

Some little shit like that really bothers me. Why the fuck can a disgustingly ugly horrible looking male go topless while a foxy sexy angel has to cover her eye dazzling rounded breasts?!!

It's too late to give power back to the people, I believe, though. Everyone is too god damned brain dead. WE use to give power to the government. Now THEY give us any power we're allowed to have.

And as stupid as everyone is, it's too late to go back

This is why no president even HINTING at being worth a shit will EVER be elected or even get 5% of votes. People will NOT vote for being responsible and actually paying for things ... the day that happens will be when the states crash - it'll vote itself in, believe me.

Bill8 · 06-10-2011, 03:49 PM

From this weeks TIME - very relevant to this discussion:

Wednesday, Jun. 08, 2011 - What U.S. Economic Recovery? Five Destructive Myths

Quote:

Myth No. 3: The private sector will make it all better

There is a fundamental disconnect between the fortunes of American companies, which are doing quite well, and American workers, most of whom are earning a lower hourly wage now than they did during the recession. The thing is, companies make plenty of money; they just don't spend it on workers here.

Half of Americans say they couldn't come up with $2,000 in 30 days without selling some of their possessions. Meanwhile, companies are flush: American firms generated $1.68 trillion in profit in the last quarter of 2010 alone. But many firms would think twice before putting their next factory or R&D center in the U.S. when they could put it in Brazil, China or India. These emerging-market nations are churning out 70 million new middle-class workers and consumers every year. That's one reason unemployment is high and wages are constrained here at home. This was true well before the recession and even before Obama arrived in office. From 2000 to 2007, the U.S. saw its weakest period of job creation since the Great Depression.

Nobel laureate Michael Spence, author of The Next Convergence, has looked at which American companies created jobs at home from 1990 to 2008, a period of extreme globalization. The results are startling. The companies that did business in global markets, including manufacturers, banks, exporters, energy firms and financial services, contributed almost nothing to overall American job growth. The firms that did contribute were those operating mostly in the U.S. market, immune to global competition — health care companies, government agencies, retailers and hotels. Sadly, jobs in these sectors are lower paid and lower skilled than those that were outsourced. "When I first looked at the data, I was kind of stunned," says Spence, who now advocates a German-style industrial policy to keep jobs in some high-value sectors at home. Clearly, it's a myth that businesses are simply waiting for more economic and regulatory "certainty" to invest back home. (See "As the Economy Sputters, D.C. Loses Its Will to Act.")

kryptonium241 · 06-10-2011, 04:11 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Vjo

Since noone is reading this

I also graduated in the late 80's with a degree in the worst thing possible: (although the best thing possible twenty years earlier) Engineering Technology (Industrial Engineering) In 1988 there were no jobs except on the coasts and competition was high.

In fact we studied how the Japanese were studying us at that time.

We knew they were coming.

@Vjo The education industry lied to my generation. They told us that an engineering degree is the key to open doors to opportunity. The only doors it opened for me were the double doors at Wal-mart. It will be my generation to fight (literally) for the right to survive.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jesus H Christ

Yes, I got that and was being a bit sarcastic.

The problem is it's a catch 22 because how can you gain/risk educational skills to compliment the needs of future innovative technologies that have not been invented yet?

Actually, we're not allowing them to stay in the US to protect American jobs. IMO in most cases it's a mood point because most of the countries they go back to won't allow them to utilize this education freely because it can/causes a power/financial struggle.

@Jesus H Christ I've worked in facilities where I was one of the few Americans. All the rest were cheap H1B laborers brought in from across the world. We're fucked from both sides, from overseas competition and H1B workers brought over here.

THE SOLUTION CAN BE FOUND HERE:
WhileRomeBurns.org/741776A/blogs/entry/Weiner

a page with photos that clearly sums up the situation

onwebcam · 06-10-2011, 04:29 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by uno

FDR is NOT Teddy's son. He's like a fifth cousin.

That part was an assumption on my part. Good to know. Appears they all end up being cousins.

Lassitor · 06-10-2011, 04:29 PM

Sorry peeps, but "Welcome to the Greatest Depression"

We are looking at 20 years of Yugoslavia style poverty with a tyrannical government making sure everyone has a pot to piss in.

There is no way out of this, because nobody wants out! There is no solution because nobody wants a solution. I only say this because everyone seems to agree that we are headed for shit city but nobody wants to actually change anything that would alter our expected arrival at shitville.

As for the porn industry? Well now that the government figured it can tax lap dances it is not long now that the government will simply take over and use SEX as a means to fund itself.

Vjo · 06-10-2011, 04:41 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by kryptonium241

It will be my generation to fight (literally) for the right to survive.

THE SOLUTION CAN BE FOUND HERE:
WhileRomeBurns.org/741776A/blogs/entry/Weiner

Actually even educational facilities are really about making money. Just another industry. Self educate yourself and save the 100K rather than get a formal ed unless maybe in nursing and a few technical areas which still pay.

Our heyday was prob a day after we won WW2 till the early 70s when many people lost tons over the oil embargo and market crash in the very early 70s. We never eally recovered and it was downhill since.

Each decade with less wealth for the masses as a whole. Since then we keep getting further from 1959 which may have been this country's greatest year. (for the masses as a whole) The peak year with Ike.

Dwight David "Ike" Eisenhower was a five-star general in the United States Army and the 34th President of the United States, from 1953 until 1961.

I looked at the link you posted and the US may be the modern Rome heading over the waterfalls but we sure were a short lived empire.

"I like Ike"

kryptonium241 · 06-10-2011, 04:45 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Lassitor

Sorry peeps, but "Welcome to the Greatest Depression"

There is no way out of this, because nobody wants out! There is no solution because nobody wants a solution. I only say this because everyone seems to agree that we are headed for shit city but nobody wants to actually change anything that would alter our expected arrival at shitville.

NOBODY wants a solution??? Then why the goddamn fuck are we all here talking about this matter?

kryptonium241 · 06-10-2011, 04:56 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Vjo

Actually even educational facilities are really about making money. Just another industry.

I've realized that in my senior year. The profs fought like hell to try to fail me out. Sick bunch of self-serving motherfuckers...a lot like politicians.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Vjo

I looked at the link you posted and the US may be the modern Rome heading over the waterfalls but we sure were a short lived empire.

Here's the way I see it: The US has 300 million people, thereabouts. The top ten percent may have the money, but they each only get one vote. As long as the election process isn't rigged, if the average folks would select a candidate from their own socioeconomic class they could support the candidacies of those individuals. Look, if the Egyptians could use FaceBook to unite millions for revolution why can't we use modern technology to end the dominance of the Democrats and Republicans by giving s/o with our own interests a real shot at winning?

Vjo · 06-10-2011, 05:08 PM

"Politics ought to be the part-time profession of every citizen who would protect the rights and privileges of free people and who would preserve what is good and fruitful in our national heritage."

"Leadership is the art of getting someone else to do something you want done because he wants to do it"

Dwight D. Eisenhower (1890–1969)
34th President of the United States (1953-1961 2 Terms)
5 Star General United States Army

kryptonium241 · 06-10-2011, 06:21 PM

"William Howard Taft, William Jennings Bryan, William Tell -- whoever. Their spirit is dead -- if they ever had one -- it's gone." Colonel Slade, Scent of a Woman

One can never rest on the laurels of the past-no matter how great they may have been. It is time for new leaders to come forth and lead us into the future.

Bill8 · 06-10-2011, 06:29 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by kryptonium241

Here's the way I see it: The US has 300 million people, thereabouts. The top ten percent may have the money, but they each only get one vote. As long as the election process isn't rigged, if the average folks would select a candidate from their own socioeconomic class they could support the candidacies of those individuals. Look, if the Egyptians could use FaceBook to unite millions for revolution why can't we use modern technology to end the dominance of the Democrats and Republicans by giving s/o with our own interests a real shot at winning?

In theory that's true, but in practice, the economic overlords control the media, they have controlled and gutted education for many years, so for all practical purposes the 90% are incapable of opposing them - as evidenced by the last 30 years of elections and the state of public debate as seen, as allowed to be seen, in the media.

People hoped at one point that the internet would promote freedom, but it is being used to spread disinformation, paranoia, phoney conspiracies, and divide-and-conquer hysteria at an even faster rate than it spreads freedom.

GFY here is a perfect example of that - in fact, we are one of the best examples you could ever find.

Vjo · 06-10-2011, 06:43 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by kryptonium241

why can't we use modern technology to end the dominance of the Democrats and Republicans by giving s/o with our own interests a real shot at winning?

I always vote third party. There is not a dimes worth of diff betw dem/rep and if either party wins the special ints got their boy in. All set up. Very convenient.

They pretend there is soooo much diff when they have there lil debates.

Prob is they even pick our third party like Ross Perot and the consumer guy Ralph Nader who keeps stealing dem votes and allowing the repubs to get back in. Still 3rd parties keep getting more votes every year.

We really need a real alternative candidate with a grass roots cmpn like Governor Jesse Ventura did in MN. But big money and media are so powerful they discredit them quick. Still it could happen. Folks will vote if given a real alternative.

Want to fight back? Cancel your TV service. It is all BS. You can get any show you want free on the web. (already happening with today's younger crowd) That will put some hurt in the stinking media.

Save about $500-$1000 in just 12 months and also get the daily BS out of your head. Also watch everything 100% commercial free.

Young guys, that's $25,000+ tax free in 20 years. It adds up. Years salary for many, that is $35,000 earned (before taxes). Want a gauranteed years paid vacation the next 20 years?

Now you got it.

Vjo · 06-10-2011, 07:14 PM

And for those who say isnt that the same as going to tubes and not paying for porn? Perhaps. But as you always tell me..

Adapt or die.

Not everyone is gonna cancel their TV service just like not everyone likes tubes. Incl me. I do buy adult memberships if I see something i like. Then I cancell usually the first month but you get $30 out of me. That is ok. That is a couple $30's a year for 2 memberships.

But the TV industry is recurring charges that never end until you wise up.

If you want to stay another 6 months on your vacation

dump the home phone now too and put the money aside.

Bill8 · 06-10-2011, 07:20 PM

Here's some Grade A Bullshit from the usual suspects - but it includes a few number projections that, while not really meaningfull, provide some scale.

We need to create 21 million jobs by 2020, just to keep up.

Grabbed the link from Big Picture: http://www.mckinsey.com/mgi/publicat...jobs/index.asp

Quote:

Recoveries are increasingly becoming "jobless" due to firm restructuring, skill and geographic mismatches between workers and jobs, and sharp decline in new start-ups.

The US needs to create 21 million new jobs by 2020 to regain full employment ? and only achieves this in our most optimistic job growth scenario.

The US workforce will continue to grow until 2020, but under current trends, many workers will not have the right skills for the available jobs. Technology is changing the nature of work: jobs are being disaggregated into tasks, work is becoming virtual, and firms are relying on flexible labor (temporary, contract workers). These trends offer new opportunities for creating jobs in the United States, a trend that some companies do not fully appreciate.

Progress on four dimensions will be essential for reviving the US job creation machine: develop the US workforces' skill to better match what employers are looking for; expand US workers' share of global economic growth by attracting foreign investment and spurring exports; revive the nation's spark by supporting emerging industries, ensuring more of them scale up in the United States, and reviving new business start-ups; and speed up regulatory decision-making that blocks business expansion and new investment.

So, what these guys are saying is, temp jobs are the future, sorry workers, your old idea of employment has been disaggregated.

"geographic mismatches between workers and jobs" - as in, you are in the wrong fucking country.

And, the standard coprorate line of "we need a more skilled workforce" - combined with a complete lack of ideas for where these 21 million new jobs are going to come from. "Attracting foreign investment" - really? That's your idea, attract foreign investment in this country?

Also note what is not mentioned - the chronically underemployed - we have 9% unemployment, but another 11% underemployment. (this doesn't even count the unemployable or those off the employment map altogether, like a lot of freelancers, and, oh yeah, people like us, self employed webmasters) The underemployed are just fucked - counted as employed by the government, they simply don't matter, because they aren't part of the media numbers propaganda.

So, if you want to try the give the chronically underemployed a living wage, and 21 million jobs are what is need to employ the officially unemployed and the oncoming generations, what we actually need to create is about 41 million new jobs.

So, what effect do you think that the need for 41 million new jobs is going to have on wages and salaries in general here in this country? Make them go up?

The companies are making money, the economic elites are making money, the international and multinational marketplace is booming, but if you are part of the working strata in america you are well and truly fucked.

Vjo · 06-10-2011, 07:38 PM

I literally took my house phone which was also a scanner/fax out and dumped it in the dumpster.

Keeeer plump! Very liberating. $250/year saved ($350 earned) not incl LD. Thank you very much. It all adds up.

My nut is now very low. THIS is the secret to survival in biz and personally in the next years. Get rid of unnec overhead now BEFORE you have to.

Agent 488 · 06-10-2011, 07:50 PM

anyone hear how many workers gave up and left the work force last month (and are thus not counted in unemploment stats any more?)

some months it's been as high as half a mil per month.

the official stats are bullshit. something out of soviet russia.

kryptonium241 · 06-10-2011, 07:53 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bill8

In theory that's true, but in practice, the economic overlords control the media,...

When the people can no longer afford TV, internet, or, hell, even a newspaper, this problem will be solved. Until then, people like us MUST spread the truth.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bill8

Clearly, it's a myth that businesses are simply waiting for more economic and regulatory "certainty" to invest back home

It's up to us to demonstrate this fact to as many people as possible. Personally I just try to reach the unemployed and the underemployed.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Vjo

We really need a real alternative candidate with a grass roots cmpn like ...

Maybe you should run. Find people that would have a vested self-interest in turning this ship around: the working poor and the unemployed. Plant seeds, find people that truly believe in what you say, and commission them to help you spread the gospel of unification and solidarity against the titans of commerce.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Vjo

But big money and media are so powerful they discredit them quick. Still it could happen. Folks will vote if given a real alternative..

Work initially from the shadows. Don't offer the mainstream media a target to hit. Once you have a core group of supporters then you could make a formal candidacy announcement. Engineer media events and conveniently have your backers with you. The media coverage with throngs of supporters around you would add legitimacy to your campaign and help propel you.

Vjo · 06-10-2011, 09:22 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by kryptonium241

Maybe you should run..

Very honered thank you. I think I could make good decisions and would be truly of the people. I know what it's like to scrap for a $ which is prereq number one.

But that is something you have to grow up with plus I am way too private a person.

Politics is actually not what I am. I am more a survivalist I like to think. The exact opposite. I say go underground as much as possible. A Henry David Thoreau loner.

You all have read "On Waldon Pond" of course? Nutshell in 1845 he went with $80 of beans and rice and seeds and lived for two years on that. He believed that to work your life away was wrong. He believed free time was the highest thing achievable. The worst thing was to be born a farmer's son. You inherit the farm, you have lots of money but you are sentenced to a lifetime of work.

If you are on you own and you want some inspiration check it out. Cool dude really. Wrote a book the whole time called.. On Waldon Pond (Concord, Massachusetts which makes it more amazing. Gets cold there.)

"gaurd your affections" as the Brits say.

Isnt that the Brits. They are so clever. I love the Brits!

I think I could do as well as either Bush tho.

488: I dont get much stats with no TV service. I am too busy dl'ng ***

That is your job to keep us informed.

I have no current facts. And I have other stuff to do.

Isolationist too.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Walden_Pond

Vjo · 06-10-2011, 09:43 PM

Walden Pond
Concord, Massachusetts

Henry David Thoreau

Maxham daguerreotype of Henry David Thoreau made in 1856

Born: July 12, 1817(1817-07-12)
Concord, Massachusetts

Died: May 6, 1862(1862-05-06) (aged 44)
Concord, Massachusetts

Era: 19th century philosophy

Region: Western Philosophy

School: Transcendentalism

Main interests: Natural history

Notable ideas: Abolitionism, tax resistance, development criticism, civil disobedience, conscientious objection, direct action, environmentalism, anarchism, simple living

Agent 488 · 06-10-2011, 09:44 PM

yes a great american ...

Bill8 · 06-11-2011, 07:27 PM

Krugman's most recent NYT editorial, Rule by Rentiers, also applies.

http://www.nytimes.com/2011/06/10/op...10krugman.html

Quote:

What lies behind this trans-Atlantic policy paralysis? I?m increasingly convinced that it?s a response to interest-group pressure. Consciously or not, policy makers are catering almost exclusively to the interests of rentiers ? those who derive lots of income from assets, who lent large sums of money in the past, often unwisely, but are now being protected from loss at everyone else?s expense.

Of course, that?s not the way what I call the Pain Caucus makes its case. Instead, the argument against helping the unemployed is framed in terms of economic risks: Do anything to create jobs and interest rates will soar, runaway inflation will break out, and so on. But these risks keep not materializing. Interest rates remain near historic lows, while inflation outside the price of oil ? which is determined by world markets and events, not U.S. policy ? remains low.

And against these hypothetical risks one must set the reality of an economy that remains deeply depressed, at great cost both to today?s workers and to our nation?s future. After all, how can we expect to prosper two decades from now when millions of young graduates are, in effect, being denied the chance to get started on their careers?

Ask for a coherent theory behind the abandonment of the unemployed and you won?t get an answer. Instead, members of the Pain Caucus seem to be making it up as they go along, inventing ever-changing rationales for their never-changing policy prescriptions.

While the ostensible reasons for inflicting pain keep changing, however, the policy prescriptions of the Pain Caucus all have one thing in common: They protect the interests of creditors, no matter the cost. Deficit spending could put the unemployed to work ? but it might hurt the interests of existing bondholders. More aggressive action by the Fed could help boost us out of this slump ? in fact, even Republican economists have argued that a bit of inflation might be exactly what the doctor ordered ? but deflation, not inflation, serves the interests of creditors. And, of course, there?s fierce opposition to anything smacking of debt relief.

Who are these creditors I?m talking about? Not hard-working, thrifty small business owners and workers, although it serves the interests of the big players to pretend that it?s all about protecting little guys who play by the rules. The reality is that both small businesses and workers are hurt far more by the weak economy than they would be by, say, modest inflation that helps promote recovery.

No, the only real beneficiaries of Pain Caucus policies (aside from the Chinese government) are the rentiers: bankers and wealthy individuals with lots of bonds in their portfolios.

And that explains why creditor interests bulk so large in policy; not only is this the class that makes big campaign contributions, it?s the class that has personal access to policy makers ? many of whom go to work for these people when they exit government through the revolving door. The process of influence doesn?t have to involve raw corruption (although that happens, too). All it requires is the tendency to assume that what?s good for the people you hang out with, the people who seem so impressive in meetings ? hey, they?re rich, they?re smart, and they have great tailors ? must be good for the economy as a whole.

But the reality is just the opposite: creditor-friendly policies are crippling the economy. This is a negative-sum game, in which the attempt to protect the rentiers from any losses is inflicting much larger losses on everyone else. And the only way to get a real recovery is to stop playing that game.

Krugman of course is part of the liberal elite, so over and over he tries to excuse the corruption, suggest it's unconscious, and soften what he is saying.

But his title, tho more grade a bullshit, still has it right - RULE by the Rentiers (a nice word for the rich fucks who are abandoning this country, not creating jobs here, but profiting from the bailout and the transfer of wealth from this country to the new world order of the multinationals).

While the republicans, the democrats, that uncle tom obama, and those dum fuck teabagers, help them steal this countrys last remaining dregs of real wealth.

View Poll Results: What are the chances the US will enter a Great Depression?
Very likely	40	36.70%
Quite likely	32	29.36%
Not really	30	27.52%
Absolutely No Way	7	6.42%
Voters: 109. You may not vote on this poll

06-10-2011, 03:11 PM	#101
$5 submissions I help you SUCCEED Industry Role: Join Date: Nov 2003 Location: The Pearl of the Orient Seas Posts: 32,195	Anyone see the Bilderberg list for this year. Interesting pattern. __________________ Need a NON-ADULT income stream? We build your YOUTUBE CHANNEL for only $20 per video! For Hire: $3/hour or $400 per month Marketing Specialist Virtual Assistants

06-10-2011, 05:08 PM	#110
Vjo So Fucking Banned Industry Role: Join Date: Oct 2002 Location: Happy 4th of July :) Posts: 6,082	"Politics ought to be the part-time profession of every citizen who would protect the rights and privileges of free people and who would preserve what is good and fruitful in our national heritage." "Leadership is the art of getting someone else to do something you want done because he wants to do it" Dwight D. Eisenhower (1890–1969) 34th President of the United States (1953-1961 2 Terms) 5 Star General United States Army Last edited by Vjo; 06-10-2011 at 05:20 PM..

06-10-2011, 07:14 PM	#114
Vjo So Fucking Banned Industry Role: Join Date: Oct 2002 Location: Happy 4th of July :) Posts: 6,082	And for those who say isnt that the same as going to tubes and not paying for porn? Perhaps. But as you always tell me.. Adapt or die. Not everyone is gonna cancel their TV service just like not everyone likes tubes. Incl me. I do buy adult memberships if I see something i like. Then I cancell usually the first month but you get $30 out of me. That is ok. That is a couple $30's a year for 2 memberships. But the TV industry is recurring charges that never end until you wise up. If you want to stay another 6 months on your vacation dump the home phone now too and put the money aside. Last edited by Vjo; 06-10-2011 at 07:27 PM..

06-10-2011, 04:29 PM	#106
Lassitor Confirmed User Join Date: Jun 2009 Posts: 278	Sorry peeps, but "Welcome to the Greatest Depression" We are looking at 20 years of Yugoslavia style poverty with a tyrannical government making sure everyone has a pot to piss in. There is no way out of this, because nobody wants out! There is no solution because nobody wants a solution. I only say this because everyone seems to agree that we are headed for shit city but nobody wants to actually change anything that would alter our expected arrival at shitville. As for the porn industry? Well now that the government figured it can tax lap dances it is not long now that the government will simply take over and use SEX as a means to fund itself.

06-10-2011, 06:21 PM	#111
kryptonium241 Registered User Industry Role: Join Date: Oct 2010 Posts: 9	"William Howard Taft, William Jennings Bryan, William Tell -- whoever. Their spirit is dead -- if they ever had one -- it's gone." Colonel Slade, Scent of a Woman One can never rest on the laurels of the past-no matter how great they may have been. It is time for new leaders to come forth and lead us into the future.

06-10-2011, 07:38 PM	#116
Vjo So Fucking Banned Industry Role: Join Date: Oct 2002 Location: Happy 4th of July :) Posts: 6,082	I literally took my house phone which was also a scanner/fax out and dumped it in the dumpster. Keeeer plump! Very liberating. $250/year saved ($350 earned) not incl LD. Thank you very much. It all adds up. My nut is now very low. THIS is the secret to survival in biz and personally in the next years. Get rid of unnec overhead now BEFORE you have to.

06-10-2011, 07:50 PM	#117
Agent 488 Registered User Industry Role: Join Date: Feb 2006 Posts: 22,511	anyone hear how many workers gave up and left the work force last month (and are thus not counted in unemploment stats any more?) some months it's been as high as half a mil per month. the official stats are bullshit. something out of soviet russia.

06-10-2011, 09:43 PM	#120
Vjo So Fucking Banned Industry Role: Join Date: Oct 2002 Location: Happy 4th of July :) Posts: 6,082	Walden Pond Concord, Massachusetts Henry David Thoreau Maxham daguerreotype of Henry David Thoreau made in 1856 Born: July 12, 1817(1817-07-12) Concord, Massachusetts Died: May 6, 1862(1862-05-06) (aged 44) Concord, Massachusetts Era: 19th century philosophy Region: Western Philosophy School: Transcendentalism Main interests: Natural history Notable ideas: Abolitionism, tax resistance, development criticism, civil disobedience, conscientious objection, direct action, environmentalism, anarchism, simple living

06-10-2011, 09:44 PM	#121
Agent 488 Registered User Industry Role: Join Date: Feb 2006 Posts: 22,511	yes a great american ...