BFT3K

What are your (everyone's) predictions regarding tonight's Wisconsin recall elections, taking place in just an hour or so?

BFT3K

China just increased their minimum wage.

http://www.chinapost.com.tw/business.../China-ups.htm

They are now paying some lucky workers ALMOST $1 per hour!

Our corporations would happily hire US workers for $1 per hour, but...

...those damned unions!

Minte

The votes are coming in now and the republicans are winning nearly all the races. A few by large margins.

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twistyneck

Not true, dipshit. Not even close.

TheDoc

Looks like Reps have taken two spots so far, one was a for sure win, and they have another that will probably go Republican as well. The other 3 are still to far out to call, but so far the Dems have those.

http://wisconsin.onpolitix.com/pages...ection-results

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BFT3K

So far 3 R wins - 2 D wins - and 1 still up in the air.

Coup

unions will always be necessary to fight against the corporations that are fucking us all over

directfiesta

Republicans love the big businesses. The big businesses fund the elections for the republicans who in turn give the big businesses more power and money to build more big businesses ( in fact to pay themselves hefty dividends and golden parachute ) in as many countries ( outside USA ) as they can. Nothing but parasites.

Fixed!

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I know that Asspimple is stoopid ... As he says, it is a FACT !

But I can't figure out how he can breathe or type , at the same time ....

baddog

Which is why they have outlived their usefulness. They have been giving up things gained in the past since the 80's. Seniority is the only thing they have not lost and it is what fucks things up for them.

baddog

Yeah, they have.

raymor

Quoting from YOUR source, wikipedia:
I understand you WISH that the democrats supported civil rights, but the fact is they strongly opposed civil rights and filibustered the bill.

Strom Thurmond, the democrat leader in the senate who personally filibustered the civil rights act for 24 hours and 18 minutes, was the continually reelected by democrats for decades until he passed away in 2003.

Thurmond served for decades along side his friend Robert Byrd, another democrat senator. The democrats weren't the first to elect Byrd, though. He first election victory was bring elected to a leadership position in the KKK.

I really do understand you want the democrats to be the good guys, just as any sports fan wants their chosen team to be great. The simple fact, though, is that the democrats were in violent opposition to civil rights, in 1964 just as they had been since 1875 and before. You're a union fan and that's fine, but the fact is the unions of 1964 didn't want negros taking their jobs.

If it's THAT important to you to have your team be on the right side, maybe it's time to consider if you were tricked and it's time to switch teams. If you want to be on the side that passed the civil rights acts rather than the side that filibustered them, welcome. Here's your elephant.

Mayve the democrats have changed?
The dems elected the KKK official Robert Byrd to the senate from 1959 until he died last year. Had Byrd, the democrat leader in the senate changed? As recently as 2001 he was still using the word "n i g g e r" in debate on the senate floor. That's the democrat leader, a man who thinks it's ok to talk about "n i g g e r s" while debating legislation even these days.

I know you want to be on the right side of these issues. You can be. Come on over.

TheDoc

I don't even know where to start.... so I'll start with, wtf does that bullshit have to do with you being off by a 100 years of the op or any damn subject in this thread? Not a damn thing, that's what!

And I wish dems supported civil rights and they were good guys? I'm shocked, I had no idea I felt this way... heck, I had no idea that I even cared, shit... I had no idea I was a democrat, I'm not registered as one, so this is all pretty new to me.

Next time, you should just say oops, my bad, I read it wrong... rather than coming up with stupid as long winded post where you assume you have a clue about someone you don't know.

I wouldn't want to be on the side of misinformation... so I'll stay put.

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Paul Markham

And yet you all buy the goods shipped in from overseas.

Barclays Bank are hinting they might move their offices out of the UK. If all of Barclays customers switched their accounts to another bank who stay in the UK, they wouldn't move.

Same goes for those who phone a help center and speak to someone in India, or outsource work to the Philippines.

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Chris GAMBA

Because of unions, you old ignorant twat.

Captain Kawaii

With top paid CEOs making 350 times the average workers salary...really? You've been duped sir by the people who want to get rid of them. Namely conservative democrats and republicans who call the financial shots in this country... Its clear if you step back for a moment the root causes of the current financial turmoil have not been corrected in any meaningful way...and that failure is only going to hurt mom and pop businesses and people making less than 50k a year, most of the population... I despise corrupt unions but unions are the last line of defense before a return to the days of 19th century industrial revolution period.

Chris GAMBA

You are so backwards it is unbelievable. Unions have been giving up gains? What the fuck do you think would happen without unions? Of course, every worker in the country would be able to negotiate a great deal with the corporation they work for!

Without organized labor, we would still have the working conditions of a 3rd world country. If we were to get rid of it, we would be back there in no time. The middle class exists because of unions. Everyone who is not unionized only has their benefits and wages because of unions.

The fact that anyone's brain is too weak to understand basic realities, yet they can still function in some capacity in our society, never ceases to amazes me. Get a fucking education instead of spouting off bullshit you heard some asshole ranting about on talk radio.

MrMaxwell

I always learn something from your posts.. keep posting

MrMaxwell

You make some good posts, too

Minte

And the winner is................................................ ............


The state of Wi.

Democrats fail attempt to take control of the senate

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12clicks

Leftist have have their moment in the sun to remind us all what idiots they are, now the pendulum will swing back

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12clicks

It's funny watching halfwits on this board blur the line (intentionally or thru lack of intelligence) between private and public unions.
Neither are any good but one at least was 70 years ago

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Minte

No question that rings true in Wis.

Last year the republicans took back complete control of state government,which was amazing when you consider Wis. has always been a democratic swing state. After the fall elections,the democrats left the state to avoid passing the new collective bargaining legislation,which eventually did pass.

During that process, out of state special interest groups(afl/cio) tossed serious money at the supreme court race to get a dem in,which failed.

And finally this recall attempt,which was also heavily funded by out of state special interest groups. The citizens have clearly spoken here.

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12clicks

Absolutely.
In a recall election the energy is always against the incumbent. The fact that this energy was snuffed out by the public is an amazing statement.

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dyna mo

adios unions in wisconsin.

Minte

I would enjoy sitting at the democratic breakfast strategy meeting today. I can imagine their spirits are a bit down.

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BlackCrayon

unions have become corrupt, in effect becoming a business themselves but this is not the fault of the unions but the fault of the people running them. they got greedy.

you can say unions are not needed, ect but get rid of all unions and how long will it be until worker rights start slipping away, one by one? 2,5,10 years? Maybe more but it will happen. Its time to give the unions back to the workers and use common sense when negotiating.

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you don't know you're wearing a leash if you sit by the peg all day..

_Richard_

.. so the righties can remind us what idiots they are?

TheDoc

The recalls aren't over... this was just the senate, more are coming. (others already happened) And it's still a massive hit that it they have lost seats, enough that if a few more go with the election(s), it would give Dem's a super majority after the Presidential election.

Thinking the Dems lost on this is... well, silly. They just didn't win as big as they wanted.

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baddog

Initially. Now because of LAWS.

I do not form my opinion of unions based on what ANYONE else has to say. I was a union member, shop steward, area steward and a VP candidate with 20+ years of service. Have you even been wiping your own ass for 20 years?

So, how much experience do you have working with unions? What union were you in? How long? What positions did you hold with them?


My mentor

Minte

They spent $31 million and they didn't get a supreme court justice,they had a recount and still lost..they did not get control of either house. Even if the last two recall elections go to the dems,they still won't have control.

I can appreciate looking at the glass and calling it half full. No matter how you want to spin it, the dems half full glass isn't as good as the repubs full glass.


edit...I am not talking about any national races. This is the state of Wis. and the mandates on unions rights to collective bargaining

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Vendzilla

Even if they lose the seats, do you really think they can reverse what Gov Walker did? Just the Unions blowing money to control the government, liken to the big business that everyone is against running the Governent.

The way the government should be run is thrown out the window for both

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Carbon is not the problem, it makes up 0.041% of our atmosphere , 95% of that is from Volcanos and decomposing plants and stuff. So people in the US are responsible for 13% of the carbon in the atmosphere which 95% is not from Humans, like cars and trucks and stuff and they want to spend trillions to fix it while Solar Panel plants are powered by coal plants
think about that

ReGGs

Most of the people against unions here probably are using nothing but anecdotal evidence at best as to whether or not unions are still needed. In fact. The whole reason wages are stagnant and workers have been taken advantage of is directly related to the loss of unions.

"Focusing on full-time, private sector workers, Western and Rosenfeld find that deunionization?the decline in the percentage of the labor force that is unionized?and educational stratification each explain about 33 percent of the rise in within-group wage inequality among men. Among women, deunionization explains about 20 percent of the increase in wage inequality, whereas education explains more than 40 percent."

http://www.newswise.com/articles/stu...age-inequality

You think corporations make people work 40 hours a week in non-sweatshop conditions because that's the right thing to do? Nice fantasy.

dyna mo

?The examination of the construction labor market and the facts concerning the postures of organized labor, unionized construction, and their political supporters, as well as of the cases in various states, demonstrate that the claimed advantages of government-mandated PLAs are not supported by factual evidence?

http://www.plawatch.com/studies

dyna mo

from the article:
inflated overall costs do not justify something that only accounts for 20-30% of wage inequality.

TheDoc

I personally don't care what direction it goes.... all I know is what I've read, and from what I gather, this was phase two, if they got it, it made it easier, if not - the fight was still on, and even if they got it, the fight would continue.

That's not half empty or half full of anything - that's just the way it is.

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TheDoc

I think most of what he has done will be reversed at some point in the future and replaced with a more fair labor system that still gives people union rights but not under the same ideals they had before.

Walker is a corporatist... all he cares about is the same thing elite corps care about, more profits, less going out, period. He didn't make anything better, he simply introduced an entire new set of problems to deal with in the future rather than actually solving the issues of unions when he had the chance.

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V_RocKs

I fuck you all in the ass...

V_RocKs

150 ways to get a job done for more money.

Vendzilla

Problem with that is what the federal employee's have, they had their collective bargaining taken away by Carter.
Thats how long it's been, I don't see this changing right away.

I think this could be only the beginning of the end for unions in public sectors. I just think it's not going to work in a bad economy. The government has too many bills to pay and getting less back as the unemployment rate stays fixed at above 9% and the kind of money some local governments have to pay for illegal aliens. They have to cut somewhere and the only thing they can cut is the employees benefits. It sucks, but until we start cutting away all the things we pay for that we shouldn't, thats the way it's going to be.
I would rather spend the money to have half decent cops, good teachers and keep the parks clean. But instead, we are blowing money on things like Los Angeles County spending over 600 million dollars a year on illegal aliens. That does not include the hundreds of millions the state and county pay for educating illegal aliens as mandated by federal law. Which put the total around 1.6 billion, this is one county. FAIR puts it at 22 billion for the state.

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Carbon is not the problem, it makes up 0.041% of our atmosphere , 95% of that is from Volcanos and decomposing plants and stuff. So people in the US are responsible for 13% of the carbon in the atmosphere which 95% is not from Humans, like cars and trucks and stuff and they want to spend trillions to fix it while Solar Panel plants are powered by coal plants
think about that

Joshua G

if we would just deport democrats, illegal aliens, old people, unemployed people, & fat people, we can be a great country again.

Vendzilla

No, just the illegal aliens that are sponging off the system, fucking over our schools.

Or did you not here about the kids that were sent home for wearing American Flags on Cinco De Mayo, the people celebrating were upset. Fuck Them.

We could send home everyone but the Native Americans, I would still be here

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Carbon is not the problem, it makes up 0.041% of our atmosphere , 95% of that is from Volcanos and decomposing plants and stuff. So people in the US are responsible for 13% of the carbon in the atmosphere which 95% is not from Humans, like cars and trucks and stuff and they want to spend trillions to fix it while Solar Panel plants are powered by coal plants
think about that

ReGGs

Says you. I'm sure most people you ask wouldn't mind getting an extra 30% if it meant being in a union which protected their rights. Unions also raise wages for non-union workers because they are able to argue for greater equity due to their ability to negotiate from a stronger point than individuals. Which is EXACTLY why large corporations like wal-mart hate them so much.

"Prior to the 1980s, productivity gains and workers? wages moved in tandem: as workers produced more per hour, they saw a commensurate increase in their earnings. Yet wages and productivity growth have decoupled since the late 1970s. Looking from 1980 to 2008, nationwide worker productivity grew by 75.0 percent, while workers? inflation-adjusted average wages increased by only 22.6 percent, which means that workers were compensated for only 30.2 percent of their productivity gains."

WOW they actually used to pay people for working harder. Imagine that.

"If American workers were rewarded for 100 percent of their increases in labor productivity between 1980 and 2008?as they were during the middle part of the 20th century?average wages would be $28.53 per hour?42.7 percent higher than the average real wage in 2008."

That is the real reason large companies don't want unions. They would have to pay their workers more plain and simple.

http://www.americanprogressaction.or...actsheets.html

Minte

There is nothing more the democrats can do in Wisconsin to try and wrestle back control.
They have lost every battle. And that is with significant special interest money backing them.

Doesn't it seem odd that these poor downtrodden people were able to ante up over $30m for negative television ads. The local news is saying the dems outspent the republicans 10-1. Where did all that cash come from?

The tides are turning against bleeding heart liberals. And for those of us who actually pay the bills,it's about damn time.

I'm expected to have enough money in the bank to pay my bills. So should the state. And since Walker came to office the changes he has made has done just that. The state no longer is facing certain deficits.

That's the way it is...here.

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BFT3K

Wisconsin Democrats will extend their recall battle into next year with an effort to oust Republican Governor Scott Walker, possibly on Election Day 2012, the state?s party chairman said today.

One day after falling short of a goal to recall three Republican state senators and gain control of the legislative chamber, Wisconsin Democratic Party Chairman Mike Tate said he would like to see a signature-gathering effort to force a vote ?as soon as feasible.?

Continues here...

http://www.bloomberg.com/news/2011-0...t-failure.html

ReGGs

I'm so tired of hearing this crap. It's the "conservative" states that feed off the government trough much the same way a lot of scrappy independent businessmen wouldn't have a dime if it wasn't for no-bid government contracts provided through bought and paid for political appointments.



So yeah keep feeding from the liberal trough.

http://taxprof.typepad.com/taxprof_b...ates_feed.html

TheDoc

Unions didn't bankrupt the State.... the State bankrupted itself by making bad investments in a market filled with fraud.

They did a great job of blaming someone else for the problems they created.

It's sad you think it was liberals, it's sad you think the State solved its problems.

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Sunny Day

Unions have been around for centuries, they were called guilds.
The minimum wage is BS. The minimum wage, is what a family needs to realistically live on. Say, the Flintstones, the Simpsons, The Beaver Cleaver family. It takes at least $70,000+ a year for a family of 2-4 to live basic American Dream. The average worker in the US makes a lot less than $70K per year
Walmart, America's largest retailer has no unions.
Of course, those pesky employees keep suing, since the Great, Wonderful Walmart makes them clock out after 40 hours to avoid overtime. But then makes them work for free. That's Slavery.
Walmart has no health benefits, but new employees are instructed on how to apply for food stamps and Medicaid.
Walmart has no retirement plan. Since you can't afford to work at Walmart and eat, how are you going to afford a 401K?
I used to eat with some older guys. One who bad mouthed welfare every day. But the govt. paid him to grow Angora Goats, for our next World War II. Same place, at the bar were 2 guys always bitching about "welfare mothers," while bragging about how they were getting federal money to rehab some old buildings, into condos, no one would ever buy.
The UAW was created after GM & Ford pulled so much crap. You never knew from day to day if you would work. You just showed up at the gate and hoped for the best. It was up to the supervisor to let you in. Sometimes the only way you got in, was your wife did his laundry. Sometimes she had to fuck him. That or let your family starve.
Anybody who bad mouths unions is a lackey for the Kochs. Unions aren't perfect, but without them, employees in the US would be working in the same conditions as China.
That's the ticket, fire all adult Americans. Hire children and make them work 16 hours, 7 days a week. So what if the factory burns down with all locked inside. there's plenty more children as people keep making more.
Long as rich, white folk are safe in their mansions, who cares?

TheDoc

That's sad... as they aren't the real issue.

As long as Cali has to sell its resources and buy back at a loss, it will always be screwed. Even if you removed every illegal and it cost the State nothing, the State would still be screwed. However, more border security, simply means that money will be moved, not saved and then add in the loss tax revenue, micro economy they do create, etc, even more lost. And the same real problems still in place....

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Minte

I hope that they do. Let them tap their union coffers for another $40 million only to get shot down again. What you people don't understand is that Wisconsin hasn't broken the union. They have only stopped the ability of the public union to bargain collectively.

All of this is available online if you actually care about it.

As far as private unions, I was in one early in my career. Aerospace and Machinists. Every other year they struck the company. This company had over 1100 of the highest paid employees in the state. After the 10th strike in 20 years. They closed te plant.

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MrMaxwell

It is very similar here in Wichita. We have people who aren't worth ten cents earning over $20 an hour and then striking over it. The people who do work carry the rest and nothing ever changes.

As an aside - never fly in anything Hawker Beechcraft has made in the past half decade because I am sure that my ex worked there between 2006-2007 and if she helped build it and you fly on it, you're just wrong.