JFK

200............and one............ damn slow hotel connection

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FlexxAeon

i gotta say it pained me when i heard him say the old 'i don't understand why people view porn on their mobile phones' stuff...

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Roald

Thanks

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SZNY

He explained in his speech what he thinks about piracy, how he fights it and also explained that you can't really exterminate it. Personally I think that file lockers and forum sites where you find complete copies from pay sites did more harm as tube sites.

Its pretty sucks when your content is free available on all kinds of sites, we also see that with the PornXN network. It sucks when you fire up something new and all the content is available for free to download.

The music and motion industry is much more organised to fight piracy as the adult industry.

His gesture do something in return to help others to make a buck in the adult industry is pretty positive and in many things he has a point and vision.

Personally I'm more interested what kind of new money making innovating things they will launch as a "tech company" and how they will monetize/secure their investments.

Having a pool of 900+ employees, an army of consultants/lawyers plus all the additional overhead should result in insane amount of operational costs. To cover this all plus to satisfy lenders their targets should be set pretty high.

Now with all that new sexy tech and multiple channels to make money they only need to adjust their chains and introduce new innovating things to reach their goals.

Personally I have deeply respect for anyone who worked hard, took the risks and live their dream. Doesn't matter if it's the ceo of Manwin or the guy on the corner who starts a restaurant.

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Mike Dutch

yeah thanks for uploading those clips

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DWB

They don't actually "fight" piracy, regardless of what he says he thinks of it. He's made a killing of of piracy. They just follow DMCA law, as they are supposed to. He won't/can't comment on the fact that Mansef at one time had in-house uploaders, which violated DMCA law. And if you think people are loading that many videos every day, you have another thing coming. Go look at the top uploaders and do the math. It doesn't make sense. Some of them would have to upload for 24 hours a day, every day, for months on end in order for the numbers to make sense. Look at the join dates. Point that out and they always say it's a system glitch that conveniently only happens on the biggest uploaders.

File lockers have not done anywhere close to the damage as tubes have, though they are indeed bad. See for yourself, go to google and type in any porn related keyword. Type in "porn" and see what comes up. Usually Manwin pirate properties are in the top few results.


No doubt they are a well oiled money making machine. But like I said, don't forget where most of that came from. Without their direct involvement in piracy, which in turn allowed them to have all the traffic, most of this would not be possible. And as they buy more tubes, it's not to clean up the internet or because they care about the industry. It's for the traffic. Period.

alias

Didn't you watch the keynote, it is not piracy it is free content.

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Yngwie

and here's part 4

https://youtube.com/watch?v=flXC5...eature=related

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Linguist

People are getting their panties in a bunch, wishing for a perfect world that'll never be. Those tube sites that Manwin bought existed before Manwin. They wouldn't have gone anywhere.

What people are afraid of it looks like, is smart corporate moving in (instead of bloated corporate) and working the "i'm doing websites in my pajamas" people out of business, with a lot of stats, brains and optimization. It's the gallery submitters crying over TGP saturation and tubes once again.

That, and if your content is on Manwin properties, sue them. That's what copyright is there for. But you probably can't because their legal team makes sure that they follow DMCA to the tee.

So Fabian bought out illegal tubes, is turning them legit, is working hard and is putting food on tables of 900+ people. Hate on.

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Linguist

That's bloody obvious. Of course they buy them for traffic. As a result though, those tubes are now owned by a corporation that can be sued instead of being owned by Ivan in buttfuck nowhere Ukraine.

So less piracy in total. How's that bad for webmasters in general? The end result is, less piracy than before Manwin.

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jigg

maybe its my gay brain but i pictured him like an italian hunk or something, wearing tight black shirts showin off his guns. He's got sexy accent tho

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Mike Dutch

Fabian has a mission, follows his dream and shared it with us with this speech. Keep doing what your doing, thanks for sharing your mind with us.

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SteveBee

I was at the show, and did not expect much from the keynote, but came away fairly impressed and glad that I made it. I was glad to see that Fabian is taking an active role in slimming down one of the biggest tubes, and is at least talking about the need to support content owners / producers and affiliates.

I wish the rest of the show had been better organized and updates and more information posted on the internext web site, I would of appreciated a slight change to the way the other seminars were run and several other things. The keynote was one of the better produced segments of the show. Thanks for presenting the wealth of information, and having several microphones going around for questions. It's too bad that the same amount of resources (space, time, mics, preparation, etc) was not dedicated to the rest of the show.

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Pipecrew

You Must not have been to past shows. This one was pretty damn organized and busier than I've seen in years.

CurrentlySober

I'd lick that nose...

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DWB

Was that the firm of SHAILESHKUMAR & SUDIN?

SteveBee

actually I was at internext in new orleans in like 2001 or so I think it was? And then the vegas show ofter that.. then a show in chicago for some webmaster forum after that maybe it was 2003ish - I can't remember.. and all of those shows were better organized and better attended. From what I hear it has fallen apart over the years, so if you are saying that the past few years were less organized and less attended - wow, glad I missed those -

For an industry to run around touting sound bites about how we are on the cutting edge of technology, this years show just proved that to be a joke.

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CamTraffic

Funny how quick people forget that...

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porno jew

you don't understand tube sites or tube promotion. look at what the people who upload all day are promoting and how.

and if you look at the top ten file sharing sites 9 are file lockers. traffic has changed. just because you don't understand something does not make it true.

Captain Kawaii

Wall Streeters and Porn Peeps...same peeps.

porno jew

not hard to figure out who the vc is. and what does a past bankruptcy have to do with the fact they have assets generating hundreds of thousands or maybe millions per day right now?

porno jew

yeah i watched the videos. seems like they had multiple loans over the years. that was just the latest. seems like their first major one was for mansef.

as for the vc google is your friend.

arock10

He claimed to buy everything with seller notes (seller financing) until after he had owned mansef for a few months

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stocktrader23

Come on man, where did most of this industry come from? If not the affiliate or program owner someone that sent them traffic and made them cash for sharing some titties online. Wasn't there some drama about how even TheHun got all of their traffic to start?

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DWB

+1


Hit google and look up "porn." Then try a few others like "sex videos." Let me know what you find out. I'll be waiting here for your report.

I'm not against tube sites. I'm against tube sites that prosper off the backs of everyone else.

File sites are an issue but Joe Blow just getting online and hitting google for the first time usually doesn't come across them or understand them right away. Like torrents, they are for slightly more advanced users.


Don't understand your point, but whatever it is you are right. I'd trust those Manwin and Mansef guys with my life. Pillars of the industry. Top notch, honest dudes. They probably spend their spare time feeding homeless children.

porno jew

study the alexa top 500 and come back and post results. sorry your preconceptions are distorting the new reality.

DWB

Forgot to add...

1) I use them for promotion.

2) People who upload "all day long" are uploading them without any watermarks.

stocktrader23

You want us to never forget that they bought illegal tubes while ignoring the fact that everyone here has associations with people / companies that have their own nefarious past. If we took out everyone that has in some way profited from something illegal the only people left would be those that have never received a check.

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DWB

I only have to look at #1, which is Google. Now like I said, go type "porn" into google and let me know how it all works out. Your argument is invalid.

Repeat visitors of Indians and Eastern Europeans uploading to file sharing sites as a profession vs guys searching for porn are two different things.

stocktrader23

Once they find the porn forums where every single link to every bit of content is posted they no longer have to search. Combine the traffic from all of those and it will eclipse Google porn traffic by miles. Pretty sure that was his point. Lockers are most likely magnitudes more damaging to your business than tubes.

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stocktrader23

I chose a Steve Lightspeed site as an example only because we all know that he was actively fighting piracy and even tried to make that a business model.

https://www.google.com/search?num=10...capri+site+rip

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DWB

You are 100% correct. All of us have some connection to something or someone that has a nefarious past or present. Self included. I've done business with some people who turned out to be real shit bags.

But you can't simplify it and say it's just about buying "some tubes" that were running illegally. It's bigger than that. Those sites have assisted in devastating a lot of the adult industry, and continue to do so today. I can't believe someone could even try to debate that fact. They have always been and continue to be a cancer, even if you can get some sales from them, because the sales you lost from them are much, much greater than anything you will ever get in return.

I've used the analogy in the past of being molested as a kid by your uncle, only to have him move into your house and eat at your dinner table every night, all the while your parents who beat you for accusing him of molesting you, try to convince you of what a good guy he is. The fact is, it doesn't matter how good he may be now, he molested you.

stocktrader23

What they did before they were bought by Manwin is not important. I am not 100% in tune with what Manwin is doing to clean them up but if you expect them to do more than the law provides you are asking for too much. You can't do more than the law provides while operating a site like that or you put yourself in danger. Responding correctly to DMCA's is all they can really do without opening up a can of worms. Of course you'll say that they could use their own content but that would defeat the purpose of owning a tube site in the first place which right now is a legitimate and legal business model whether we like it or not.

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DWB

I can only speak from my own experience, but based on the support emails I now get from guys who can't figure out that they have to scroll to see more of the site, or that you can't press a photo and make it play, I can only come to the conclusion that these guys are new to the internet. These are the guys I want and will fight for.

That in mind, I believe a large portion of guys joining pay sites these days are noobs because they have not yet found the porn boards or tubes. Or maybe they have and they don't feel comfortable with them yet. Whatever the case, they are still paying customers until that changes, then you lose them forever UNLESS the only place they can see what they want to see is inside your members area. Then a few may come back and join again.

Outside of a few guys here and there, I don't believe you can convert those who are comfortable with tubes and porn boards into paying customers again. So in that aspect, you are correct. But I see those guys as already lost and I don't care about them. I only care about the guys who are getting online for the first time. I want them. But it's very difficult to get them because Google gives every tube known to man better placement than most pay sites. Thus the issue I speak of.

stocktrader23

I see your point but I do think some of the forum guys would buy. They are the "collectors" and aren't happy without having every image and video on the internet that fits their tastes. That is one of the reasons I think a better pricing model would help convert some of them, they simply could not afford to pay for everything they want.

If they could buy a rip of your site from you personally then buy updates of single videos / photosets I'd imagine that there are many that would. Now whether or not the price point that would work at would be OK with both you and them is another issue.

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DWB

Manwin supposedly stopped in-house uploaders. But did they really? Do you really think all of those videos, unwatermarked, are really being uploaded every day? Maybe. It would be just easy to have Indians, Filipinos or others upload for them for pennies per upload, and they could make it untraceable. Who knows. But I don't personally believe they stopped in-house uploading and all of those videos are being uploaded by random guys for free.

And isn't it odd the largest uploaders always have "glitches" with when they joined vs how many videos they have uploaded, making it so they would have to upload 24 hours a day for months on end?

Some other tubes now give content owners limited admin access to delete their videos. If small companies can successfully do this, why can't the largest ones? Those who have taken this extra step ARE working with us and not simply feeding us full of shit and telling us it's pizza. Simply replying to a DMCA is all they are required to do, but Manwin could do much more, but they don't. And there is a reason for that.

I also don't get the part about them cleaning up their sites. How? Wouldn't that violate DMCA law to start removing content without DMCA notices? According to Fabian it would. So what are they doing, responding to DMCA notices like they are suppose to do? I don't really see that as cleaning up anything.

Anyway, you are right. They work within the law, as far as we know, and because of that there is nothing we can do other than praise them and blow them for traffic. So that's that. It is what it is and nothing will change that.

DWB

That's why I said "outside of a few guys" when I posted that. There are still a few who still do but when they want something.

We've tried every price point you can think of, from $9 to $49 and the best result every single time we test it, is $29.95 by a landslide. I don't understand it, but the stats don't lie.

I'm not going to give them a site rip, even though in theory it is a good idea, because they will just turn around and upload it for everyone else. If it wasn't for those dick heads, offering a site rip is a great idea. Maybe we can tag the rip with their data and sue them when they pass it around. Something to look into. I'm not against changing how we deliver content, I've gone through VHS to DVD to VOD to PPS to download only to streaming to encrypted streaming to now mobile, and we'll change again when we need to. If these dicks would just keep it for themselves we wouldn't have this problem.

stocktrader23

Just for the record, I don't get traffic from any of these people.

I assumed he meant that they killed any inside uploading, started responding to DMCA's as required and bans those with more than one strike against them for illegal material. I obviously do not know for sure.

As for them uploading internally, I seriously doubt they are. Six months ago I would agree with you about users uploading random vids for no reason but they try to do that shit on a tube I started which has nothing to do with standard porn. They come along and try to upload copyrighted videos for reasons I cannot even begin to comprehend. I could easily see the big uploaders on the huge sites just doing it for the praise of others or for no good reason at all. I could also see them writing scripts to upload 24/7 non stop for equally non existent reasons. These guys are even dumber than you thought and their motivations make absolutely zero sense.

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DWB

I'd like to think they killed in-house uploading too, but when you have guys loading 1000s of unwatermarked videos at breakneck speeds, I have a difficult time believing it, especially knowing they once did it. Even with scripts, for what purpose? If you will take that step to make/buy a script to upload videos, surly you would watermark them and try to make some money from them. However, I could be wrong. I'm just trying to use some common sense.

Common sense that also tells me that if you are going to get involved in such an unethical business, then I can't believe when they say they don't do that sort of thing anymore. Unethical people are usually that way to the very end.

I know he started, or at least did once after we posted it here, banned users after a few infringes. However, they did not delete his 2000+ videos, they just disabled them from uploading more. They said it may violate DMCA law and they would look into it, and then it died off as those threads usually do. However, youtube will wipe your entire account if they ban you, and I have to believe Google has better attorneys than Manwin.

Oh well. Nothing to do about it. Just pointing out some obvious things that seem to have been forgotten now that he's a great guy with vision who's fighting for the industry.

stocktrader23

Man I don't even remember what we were talking about but I don't think he's fighting for the industry at all. He's fighting for his pocketbook, lol. In fact, I am quite worried about one company buying up as much as they can, especially ones smart enough to generate their own traffic on an epic scale.

Now Paul will be in here saying I'm going to be at McDonalds soon because they will put me out of business. No, I just don't want to even worry about someone I promote getting bought out and things changing to something that has a negative effect on me. I won't die if they buy every adult company on earth Paul, leave me alone.

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DWB

You can stay 1 step ahead of Paul if you can calculate how many toilets they will need to add per office per each company they acquire.

MaDalton

buy shares of Villeroy & Boch and thank me later

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Qbert

Best advice I've seen on this board in years

JFK

Two fitty

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Paul Markham

File lockers are top of the tree for some downloaders. Remove them, the traffic ends up on Tubes. It's a cascading system.

As for fighting piracy, well that he's vague about. He said he can't delete whole accounts of people who break his TOS, well we know that's BS. He never did come back with a definitive answer from his lawyers on that one. Advertising on a piracy site isn't fighting piracy, it's funding it.

We are all assuming the money came from bankers. Knowing what's required to get a bank loan in good times in a flourishing industry and with a track record of a profit margin that would make many gasp. I doubt like you these financiers are bankers as we know them. The financial sector on this size of "loan" would of wanted some pretty water tight guarantees and collateral?

I said $100,000,000 Fabian implied it was a more. So does a financial organisation just "loan" a porn company $150,000,000 or $200,000,000. Or do they say "Go Public" and we will buy the shares?

Or did the money come from elsewhere?

One thing is 100% for sure. We will never be told.

You don't pitch to a banker. You lay down hard facts. Usually backed with collateral.

My company is currently worth $100,000,000 which we got from ??????????. Still here are my figures for the last 3-4 years, figures of the industry turn over for the last 5 years, figures of our projection of the industry for the next 5 years. Which is the time we will repay a loan from you of $200,000,000.

Yes that's a pitch. Into the dumpster.

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Paul Markham

+1

Now I've learned he said it was a WS bank. I'm getting more of the doubtful Thomas thoughts.

WS banks are not getting a good press at the moment. So what's the odds they will make a 9 figure cash loan to a porn company with a string of sites like Manwin has? I can think of one company not a million miles from WS who would love to know about this NYT is the initials you're looking for.

Forget about the spreadsheets, forecasts, collateral, etc. Think of the headlines.

WALL STREET BANKERS
LOAN ONLINE
PORN COMPANY
$200,000,000 IN CASH.

Now does that sound like something WS is going to get into in 2010?

Mainstream Internet with tangible goods, very likely. To a company with no record of this retail market on or offline? Not likely.

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Paul Markham

To fitty wun

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MaDalton

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Nicky

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