anti gun crybabies... inside: - Page 2 - GoFuckYourself.com

Grapesoda · 12-28-2012, 08:51 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by grumpy

i am pro putting (unarmed ) guards at schools and other public places. But the gun control thing has become to complicated. We need better regulations and learn to be more social. Its an attitude problem.

yes it's growing pains for society, and I do believe in trained armed guards... I see it at the Jewish schools when I've went with friends to pick their kids up.... maybe we could leave the miserable fucking Arabs alone and take care of our kids...

SuckOnThis · 12-28-2012, 08:59 AM

We need to arm the cops!

Gunman dead after shooting 3 cops at N.J. police station
http://usnews.nbcnews.com/_news/2012...e-station?lite

tony286 · 12-28-2012, 09:01 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Grapesoda

hummmm.. his kids have more right to live than my kids? and BTW I do pay for that

You want everyone's kids to have secret service protection?

grumpy · 12-28-2012, 09:02 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Grapesoda

.... maybe we could leave the miserable fucking Arabs alone and take care of our kids...

There is no oil downtown.

MaDalton · 12-28-2012, 09:02 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Grapesoda

okay next time you guys get fucked up we'll stay home... I wish

indirectly is was the peace movement after WWI that helped produce WWII, look it up. schools were forced to put anti war sentiment in text books as well as trying to place the suffering on both sides not just the French side but the German soldiers as well. Hitler did not have the military strength to take on France and his generals begged him not to attack France.... France lost in what... 3 weeks or some shit? the French had been betrayed by their intellectual class and the media... the young men had no will to defend their homes, their family's and their sovereign country.

you were brought up the same way I guess, which is fine if you don't live in a dangerous world like we do. peace is better than war, yes. unfortunately only a strong military allows peace.

as far as guns go, yes guns are dangerous BUT crazy people are more dangerous. maybe you should consider not blaming the tool and start looking at the carpenter?

actually you have no idea how it is to live in a place where people drop bombs on your head, all you get from your media is how "precision" bombs took out "terrorists".

i am pretty sure that if you would ever experience how that feels, the lust for war would go down quite a bit.

but this whole issue is not about military and wars - it's about people hording guns and ammunition at home.

but i said it in other threads already, i have learned that you guys feel different about this issue and i stopped arguing about it.

but yeah, i am happy to live in a place where i dont need to worry about guns (even though concealed carry is allowed here, just no one does it)

MaDalton · 12-28-2012, 09:23 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jesus H Christ

then why are you even in this discussion?

because i can

Rochard · 12-28-2012, 09:42 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Grapesoda

Richard we all wish that the situation wasn't like it is, BUT the cat is out of the bag... other than the men in black picking all the guns up in the middle of the night and then making us forget we ever had guns this isn't going away... and seriously, why not put guns in the hands of qualified people and 24 years olds? 24 year olds have been serving in the military with guns, well since they've had guns... remember? how old were you when you served and did you have a gun?

and no one is talking about arming all the teachers and you know it... you're being 'reactionary' we are talking about making a real life decision to protect our children, and taking action to follow through on the decision. this isn't about pie in the sky.... Jewish schools in the LA area are armed... ever hear any problems about that?

which brings me to this point: why not hire qualified teachers?

So the solution to the gun problem is more guns?

Why not hire more qualified teachers? They are qualified - to teach. They aren't law enforcement and shouldn't be required to. The majority of teachers I know aren't the kind to own or shoot firearms, no less take out a shooter in a tactical situation. You all watch way too much TV.

Your solution of arming teachers is like saying "Let's just remove security at the airports and arm the pilots". At that point, it's too late.

Why is it I have to take a written and a driving test to get my driver's license, and renew it every year, AND register my car every year but yet I can walk into any gun show and buy a fire arm no questions asked? That's fucking insane.

All I'm saying is we need to have some better monitoring and better laws here. You should be required to have a firearm license and register your firearms on a yearly basis. Pretty simple - if they can take away your DL because your blind as a bad and can no longer drive, they should be able to take away your license and your firearms. Common sense. When my father died, he left behind a handgun. He had no license for it and it wasn't registered; When he died it was passed on to my mother who had no interest in it and didn't know what to do with it. My mother has since remarried and divorced, and moved cross country. When I ask her what happened to the firearm she had no idea - it's unaccounted for. My wife also had a handgun and twenty years later we have no idea what happened to it. Why aren't these things tracked?

In order to pass my motorcycle test I took two days of classes - with Tanker and Lightspeed. When I purchased my handgun here in California the only test I had was making sure I knew if it was loaded or unloaded. Seriously. If I purchased at a gun show it would have been even easier.

You should be required to have a license to own a firearm of any sort - all that is required to have it is no felonies, no recent arrests for violent crimes such as robbery, assault, rape, etc, and a quick check of their mental health. If anyone lives with you has any history of mental health issues or is on certain kinds of medication, your license is revoked. This is common sense, and if the mother of this shooter obeyed such laws she wouldn't have owned firearms and this wouldn't have happened.

I have a friend of mine who is partially retarded. He's had a dozen or operations on his brain and operates on the level of a sixteen year old. He's on so much medication he doesn't know which way is up; He's had four or five automobile accidents in the past four or five years. He's on antidepressants, is divorced, hasn't gotten laid in nearly fifteen years, and has a host of medical problems. With the current system in place there was nothing stopping him from getting both handgun and an assault rifle. Even now, although he's a perfect candidate for going into the mall and killing a dozen people, there is nothing we can do to take away his firearms. (Ironically, he's the one who helped me get my assault rifle.)

I am okay with a handful of teachers arming themselves, but at the point a teacher has to pull out a firearm to protect hundreds of kids it's too late.

glamourmodels · 12-28-2012, 10:17 AM

I dunno, I think it's a toss-up :-)

Quote:

Originally Posted by Grapesoda

much better than the dead horse

Dirty F · 12-28-2012, 10:35 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by onwebcam

The person who made that text should have the stupidity beaten out of him. Preferable with the heads of the people who use this pic on forums.
My god...

notinmybackyard · 12-28-2012, 01:02 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Grapesoda

"You?re never going to get all the mentally and criminally insane people off the streets, and you?re never going to be able to disarm all the criminals, so logically what do you do?"

Close all borders, making sure no American citizen can leave the United States.
Then let Darwin's theory of evolution solve the problems.

Seriously
From my experiences in life it appears to me that the vast majority of gun fanatics have either 1) a small penis ... or 2) erection or premature ejaculation problems... or 3) gay in denile.

Arming school teachers will work until one day some teacher goes on a rampage killing. (Most probably because she had sex with a student and then caught him fooling around.) The solution is to clean up the social problems that plague the United States... Not turn it into a war zone.

MakingItPay · 12-28-2012, 01:53 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rochard

You are missing a large number of issues here.

1) Teachers with guns

Do you really want your kid's teacher's to be packing a firearm when they are with them? My kid's teacher is twenty-four years old and all of ninety-five pounds soaking wet... She can't hurt a fucking fly no less fire a handgun at a range. What is she gonna do - Strap a handgun to her thigh under her dress while she plays jump rope with the kids on the playground?

What happens when one of those teachers has their firearm unsupervised for more than moment and an eight year old kid picks it up and thinks it's a toy and shoots his classmate dead?

My kid's school has twenty-six teachers. Does that mean my child is going to be surrounded by twenty-six handguns eight hours a day? Do the math here... You put twenty-six guns onto a campus and an accident will happen, someone's kid will get shot, the school district will be sued, the teacher will loose their job (because in addition to all of their job responsibilities we now require them to be law enforcement officers), and that will be only the start of the problem.

I'm sorry, I don't want my child surrounded by firearms on a daily basis by people untrained to handle it.

2) Last Resort

Arming teachers and tell them to protect school kids after the shooting has stopped is too late. The bullets have already started to fly and people are already dead. It's too late. Instead, the goal here should be to stop these people from getting firearms.

Anyone can get a firearm at this point. You can't get a fucking driver's license without a test, and you have register your car every year, but with a firearm anyone can get one....

3) Only protecting schools

Great, let's say we arm all teachers with firearms. Awesome. That's not going to protect malls. Or churches. Or government offices.

Basically you want to surround school children daily with untrained teachers who have dangerous loaded firearms and expect them to handle a tactical situation AFTER the shots have already been fired? That's called desperation.

Guess who's kids have 9 to 11 armed guards and secret service at their school? If it's good enough for his kids, it's good enough for ours, right?

MakingItPay · 12-28-2012, 02:03 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dirty F

The person who made that text should have the stupidity beaten out of him. Preferable with the heads of the people who use this pic on forums.
My god...

The photo of armed guards at the school don't bother you? Just the text?

They should definitely shut whoever made this down. Hurts the no armed guards in school argument for sure, when the elites have em for their kids.

Grapesoda · 12-28-2012, 02:09 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MaDalton

actually you have no idea how it is to live in a place where people drop bombs on your head, all you get from your media is how "precision" bombs took out "terrorists".

i am pretty sure that if you would ever experience how that feels, the lust for war would go down quite a bit.

but this whole issue is not about military and wars - it's about people hording guns and ammunition at home.

but i said it in other threads already, i have learned that you guys feel different about this issue and i stopped arguing about it.

but yeah, i am happy to live in a place where i dont need to worry about guns (even though concealed carry is allowed here, just no one does it)

Ma I have no lust for war, just pointing out the reality of the world, just because I state a position doesn't mean I am a war lover or gun lover ... yes it would be very nice to live where I didn't need a gun or schools didn't need armed guards... just not the way it is over here... and you have no idea who is carrying a concealed weapon just because your drinking buddies and cronies don't

Grapesoda · 12-28-2012, 02:14 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by notinmybackyard

Close all borders, making sure no American citizen can leave the United States.
Then let Darwin's theory of evolution solve the problems.

Seriously
From my experiences in life it appears to me that the vast majority of gun fanatics have either 1) a small penis ... or 2) erection or premature ejaculation problems... or 3) gay in denile.

Arming school teachers will work until one day some teacher goes on a rampage killing. (Most probably because she had sex with a student and then caught him fooling around.) The solution is to clean up the social problems that plague the United States... Not turn it into a war zone.

do you feel better now that you have called people with guns fanatics with small penises, that are closet fags?

this is a great example of the anti gun peeps... no facts, just trying to degrade anyone that disagrees with you or your position.

Grapesoda · 12-28-2012, 02:17 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rochard

So the solution to the gun problem is more guns?

Why not hire more qualified teachers? They are qualified - to teach. They aren't law enforcement and shouldn't be required to. The majority of teachers I know aren't the kind to own or shoot firearms, no less take out a shooter in a tactical situation. You all watch way too much TV.

Your solution of arming teachers is like saying "Let's just remove security at the airports and arm the pilots". At that point, it's too late.

Why is it I have to take a written and a driving test to get my driver's license, and renew it every year, AND register my car every year but yet I can walk into any gun show and buy a fire arm no questions asked? That's fucking insane.

All I'm saying is we need to have some better monitoring and better laws here. You should be required to have a firearm license and register your firearms on a yearly basis. Pretty simple - if they can take away your DL because your blind as a bad and can no longer drive, they should be able to take away your license and your firearms. Common sense. When my father died, he left behind a handgun. He had no license for it and it wasn't registered; When he died it was passed on to my mother who had no interest in it and didn't know what to do with it. My mother has since remarried and divorced, and moved cross country. When I ask her what happened to the firearm she had no idea - it's unaccounted for. My wife also had a handgun and twenty years later we have no idea what happened to it. Why aren't these things tracked?

In order to pass my motorcycle test I took two days of classes - with Tanker and Lightspeed. When I purchased my handgun here in California the only test I had was making sure I knew if it was loaded or unloaded. Seriously. If I purchased at a gun show it would have been even easier.

You should be required to have a license to own a firearm of any sort - all that is required to have it is no felonies, no recent arrests for violent crimes such as robbery, assault, rape, etc, and a quick check of their mental health. If anyone lives with you has any history of mental health issues or is on certain kinds of medication, your license is revoked. This is common sense, and if the mother of this shooter obeyed such laws she wouldn't have owned firearms and this wouldn't have happened.

I have a friend of mine who is partially retarded. He's had a dozen or operations on his brain and operates on the level of a sixteen year old. He's on so much medication he doesn't know which way is up; He's had four or five automobile accidents in the past four or five years. He's on antidepressants, is divorced, hasn't gotten laid in nearly fifteen years, and has a host of medical problems. With the current system in place there was nothing stopping him from getting both handgun and an assault rifle. Even now, although he's a perfect candidate for going into the mall and killing a dozen people, there is nothing we can do to take away his firearms. (Ironically, he's the one who helped me get my assault rifle.)

I am okay with a handful of teachers arming themselves, but at the point a teacher has to pull out a firearm to protect hundreds of kids it's too late.

I agree with more training more investigation... so we'll just let creepos wonder into the schools and kill kids for the next few years while we work all that out? armed guards could be in the schools within a month... they could put the fucking national guard there tomorrow.

Grapesoda · 12-28-2012, 02:19 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dirty F

The person who made that text should have the stupidity beaten out of him. Preferable with the heads of the people who use this pic on forums.
My god...

sure am glad a bigot like you doesn't have a gun

bigot: somebody with strong opinions, especially on politics, religion, or ethnicity, who refuses to accept different views

Rochard · 12-28-2012, 02:58 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Grapesoda

I agree with more training more investigation... so we'll just let creepos wonder into the schools and kill kids for the next few years while we work all that out? armed guards could be in the schools within a month... they could put the fucking national guard there tomorrow.

No, they can't put guards into the schools "next month". Don't get me wrong, I wouldn't mind seeing it - two to four guards per school.

But long before you can make it happen you have to answer a lot of questions - such as who is going to pay for this. I read someplace it would cost $5billion just for California alone. Then you need to figure out who is going to train them, what qualifications are needed - heaven forbid should some school district hire some pedo or vet with mental issues, what weapons will be needed, etc etc....

I would imagine each local police department could hire two or three full time officers per school....

But still, is that the solution? We are talking about public schools here - The general public has full access to them, and most of us attend events at schools on a regular basis. We know the school layouts and Google Maps doesn't much either. Armed guards in schools is going to cost billions, will not prevent attacks, and will leave churches, movies, shopping malls, and government buildings wide open. This is only a small part of the solution - and it will cost a lot of money.

Armed guards in schools is a step we should take. We should also think about arming the mall cops too. But we need to do so much more, including creating a better mental health system and more checks and security features on gun ownership over all.

MakingItPay · 12-28-2012, 03:41 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rochard

No, they can't put guards into the schools "next month". Don't get me wrong, I wouldn't mind seeing it - two to four guards per school.

But long before you can make it happen you have to answer a lot of questions - such as who is going to pay for this. I read someplace it would cost $5billion just for California alone. Then you need to figure out who is going to train them, what qualifications are needed - heaven forbid should some school district hire some pedo or vet with mental issues, what weapons will be needed, etc etc....

I would imagine each local police department could hire two or three full time officers per school....

But still, is that the solution? We are talking about public schools here - The general public has full access to them, and most of us attend events at schools on a regular basis. We know the school layouts and Google Maps doesn't much either. Armed guards in schools is going to cost billions, will not prevent attacks, and will leave churches, movies, shopping malls, and government buildings wide open. This is only a small part of the solution - and it will cost a lot of money.

Armed guards in schools is a step we should take. We should also think about arming the mall cops too. But we need to do so much more, including creating a better mental health system and more checks and security features on gun ownership over all.

Yes!!!!! Why are we talking about costs? You know how much money we send to other countries? Maybe hold that back to protect our kids. You do realize all this talk about banning weapons has created a rush on them and 10 year worth of them will be sold in 1 year. We can not take guns out of the hands of crazy people with laws. If we could then we would just pass it and secret service could disarm. You know they won't, and you know why. I think my family is just as important as the elites. But you will notice that they don't agree with me.

tony286 · 12-28-2012, 03:45 PM

To get cold medicine I have give id and if I buy alot of it from different places. I will get a knock on my door. But 6000 rounds no questions asked.

Rochard · 12-28-2012, 03:58 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MakingItPay

Yes!!!!! Why are we talking about costs? You know how much money we send to other countries? Maybe hold that back to protect our kids. You do realize all this talk about banning weapons has created a rush on them and 10 year worth of them will be sold in 1 year. We can not take guns out of the hands of crazy people with laws. If we could then we would just pass it and secret service could disarm. You know they won't, and you know why. I think my family is just as important as the elites. But you will notice that they don't agree with me.

Why are we talking about costs? Because the costs will be astronomical, it will only protect schools, and it does not fully protect school kids. They had armed guards at Columbine and that failed to prevent the shooting. Having armed guards at a school doesn't mean they can prevent a shooting, but only increases the odds that law enforcement will be able to respond quicker.

For example, take a look at airport security. They have hundreds of armed guards, some with assault rifles, and that will not stop a gun man from driving up the curb and opening fire.

And then the problem is this ONLY protects schools - not malls, churches, movie theaters, government offices, etc....

Rochard · 12-28-2012, 04:01 PM

This is an example of a new law we should create:

Authorities have charged a woman for allegedly providing a convicted killer with the Bushmaster AR-15 assault rifle he used when he ambushed four volunteer firefighters and an off-duty cop at a fire scene in upstate New York on Christmas Eve, federal prosecutors said.

Dawn Nguyen, 24, was arrested today after allegedly making an illegal purchase of the weapon used by William Spengler, 62, who set a house and car on fire in Webster, N.Y., the morning of Dec. 24, then shot dead two firemen and himself.

(source)

Very simple law - if your handgun is used during a crime, you are held liable for it, and if found guilty it's a felony with a minimum of ten years in prison. Make this a federal law, make sure that everyone purchases a firearm knows and understands it....

Lock down the dealings at gun shows, and require a mental health check to purchase a firearm and now we are talking!

MakingItPay · 12-28-2012, 04:09 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rochard

This is an example of a new law we should create:

Authorities have charged a woman for allegedly providing a convicted killer with the Bushmaster AR-15 assault rifle he used when he ambushed four volunteer firefighters and an off-duty cop at a fire scene in upstate New York on Christmas Eve, federal prosecutors said.

Dawn Nguyen, 24, was arrested today after allegedly making an illegal purchase of the weapon used by William Spengler, 62, who set a house and car on fire in Webster, N.Y., the morning of Dec. 24, then shot dead two firemen and himself.

(source)

Very simple law - if your handgun is used during a crime, you are held liable for it, and if found guilty it's a felony with a minimum of ten years in prison. Make this a federal law, make sure that everyone purchases a firearm knows and understands it....

Lock down the dealings at gun shows, and require a mental health check to purchase a firearm and now we are talking!

So basically the victim of a gun theft, should be liable for the crime committed? Wrong. How about this one. If someone steals your property you should be charged as an accessory to the crime since you didn't lock it up well enough. Come on. That will just punish the innocent. You guys love to punish the innocent for the crimes of the guilty.

notinmybackyard · 12-28-2012, 04:11 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Grapesoda

do you feel better now that you have called people with guns fanatics with small penises, that are closet fags?

this is a great example of the anti gun peeps... no facts, just trying to degrade anyone that disagrees with you or your position.

My feelings are irrelevant the simple fact is that I wrote what I see based on my experiences.

Therefore if the people of the United States can not smarten up and turn away from their culture of war.
I think the only solution is to prevent americans from leaving their nation and let them go about killing themselves off. So if you can not clean up your social problems I hope you make more guns and buy more guns and get on with the job of killing each other.

Because less warmongers equals more peace for the rest of the world.

MakingItPay · 12-28-2012, 04:13 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rochard

Why are we talking about costs? Because the costs will be astronomical, it will only protect schools, and it does not fully protect school kids. They had armed guards at Columbine and that failed to prevent the shooting. Having armed guards at a school doesn't mean they can prevent a shooting, but only increases the odds that law enforcement will be able to respond quicker.

For example, take a look at airport security. They have hundreds of armed guards, some with assault rifles, and that will not stop a gun man from driving up the curb and opening fire.

And then the problem is this ONLY protects schools - not malls, churches, movie theaters, government offices, etc....

We give astronomical amounts to other countries. Now you libs want to save money? LOL
Having one armed guard at columbine saved lives. Google it. But I think I like your idea of having four armed guards. Columbine was a failed bombing, not really meant to be just a shooting. Had they been better at timers, they would have killed 500 people. What law would have prevented that?

Armed guards won't save every one. But it is at least a sporting chance. Stop making malls, theaters, etc "Gun Free" zones. I won't need a guard.

MakingItPay · 12-28-2012, 04:44 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by notinmybackyard

My feelings are irrelevant the simple fact is that I wrote what I see based on my experiences.

Therefore if the people of the United States can not smarten up and turn away from their culture of war.
I think the only solution is to prevent americans from leaving their nation and let them go about killing themselves off. So if you can not clean up your social problems I hope you make more guns and buy more guns and get on with the job of killing each other.

Because less warmongers equals more peace for the rest of the world.

That's the kind of thinking that starts wars.

Rochard · 12-28-2012, 04:51 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MakingItPay

So basically the victim of a gun theft, should be liable for the crime committed? Wrong. How about this one. If someone steals your property you should be charged as an accessory to the crime since you didn't lock it up well enough. Come on. That will just punish the innocent. You guys love to punish the innocent for the crimes of the guilty.

Not really. If you purchase a firearm with the attention of handing it over to a felon to kill people, yes, you should be held liable.

At the same time, if you are careless with your firearms and have multiple firearms that people have access to, yes, you can be held liable. If you and your wife keep a handgun in your dresser draw next to your bed for protection and someone breaks into your house and steals it, I don't believe you should be held liable. But if you have half a dozen assault rifles not secured and a sixteen year old son who has a shrink and is on antidepressants and he kills sixteen people at the mall, yes, you should be held liable.

MakingItPay · 12-28-2012, 05:01 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rochard

Not really. If you purchase a firearm with the attention of handing it over to a felon to kill people, yes, you should be held liable.

At the same time, if you are careless with your firearms and have multiple firearms that people have access to, yes, you can be held liable. If you and your wife keep a handgun in your dresser draw next to your bed for protection and someone breaks into your house and steals it, I don't believe you should be held liable. But if you have half a dozen assault rifles not secured and a sixteen year old son who has a shrink and is on antidepressants and he kills sixteen people at the mall, yes, you should be held liable.

I do agree with some of what you say Rochard. If you can prove intent, then you have an actual accomplice. However, with a child that has never committed a violent act, suddenly kills lots of people, you can not be expected to know that will happen. If they can prove negligence, then of course that could be a crime. But the woman you speak of died, so she didn't believe it would happen. She bet her life it wouldn't. If you have a psychopath that wants to get your weapons, they can get them. They could even kill you to get them. Spending money to go after the person who had their gun taken without their consent or knowledge seems like misplaced priorities. I would say that the policies that let that murderer out of jail to shoot the firemen in the recent case should be put on trial.

Rochard · 12-28-2012, 05:38 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MakingItPay

I do agree with some of what you say Rochard. If you can prove intent, then you have an actual accomplice. However, with a child that has never committed a violent act, suddenly kills lots of people, you can not be expected to know that will happen. If they can prove negligence, then of course that could be a crime. But the woman you speak of died, so she didn't believe it would happen. She bet her life it wouldn't. If you have a psychopath that wants to get your weapons, they can get them. They could even kill you to get them. Spending money to go after the person who had their gun taken without their consent or knowledge seems like misplaced priorities. I would say that the policies that let that murderer out of jail to shoot the firemen in the recent case should be put on trial.

The mother of the shooter who died is a great example.

Her son had mental issues, had a shrink assigned to him in high school, and everyone called him a "loner". The mother should have known he had a potential for violence. Instead of doing the right thing - and keeping firearms out of the house completely - she instead encouraged her son by taking him out shooting and thought nothing of the fact that her son spent most of his time in his room in the basement of the house playing Call Of Duty surrounded by posters of military hardware.

How could she not have seen this as being a potential problem?

She should be held liable here - she kept firearms in the house of someone who had recently received psychiatric help....

sandman! · 12-28-2012, 05:42 PM

Most NRA members have no problem with laws to keep guns away from mentally ill people

but everyone has a crazy cousin thats just not right and 99.9% of these people never do anything violent so where do you draw the line ?

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rochard

The mother of the shooter who died is a great example.

Her son had mental issues, had a shrink assigned to him in high school, and everyone called him a "loner". The mother should have known he had a potential for violence. Instead of doing the right thing - and keeping firearms out of the house completely - she instead encouraged her son by taking him out shooting and thought nothing of the fact that her son spent most of his time in his room in the basement of the house playing Call Of Duty surrounded by posters of military hardware.

How could she not have seen this as being a potential problem?

She should be held liable here - she kept firearms in the house of someone who had recently received psychiatric help....

bronco67 · 12-28-2012, 05:55 PM

My wife(a teacher) just got an email...

A portion of the supply budget is being re-directed towards armed security for every school in our city. It'll be for 2 months, and after that they'll decide if they make it permanent.

I'm all for it. Arming teachers is just the dumbest fucking idea I've ever heard -- but having a security professional on the grounds would be enough to deter a mass murderer, because if we're totally honest we know those people are cowards who don't want to get into an exchange of gunfire. They want the softest target possible.

It's the equivalent of having an air marshall. Maybe they wouldn't be able to stop an intruder, but they probably won't show up in the first place.

MakingItPay · 12-28-2012, 05:56 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rochard

The mother of the shooter who died is a great example.

Her son had mental issues, had a shrink assigned to him in high school, and everyone called him a "loner". The mother should have known he had a potential for violence. Instead of doing the right thing - and keeping firearms out of the house completely - she instead encouraged her son by taking him out shooting and thought nothing of the fact that her son spent most of his time in his room in the basement of the house playing Call Of Duty surrounded by posters of military hardware.

How could she not have seen this as being a potential problem?

She should be held liable here - she kept firearms in the house of someone who had recently received psychiatric help....

You can use hindsight to say these things, but I have to believe if she thought he would use guns on others, she would not have had them around. Remember, he shot her in the face four times. Let's put her in jail for not knowing in advance that her baby would do such a thing. But how many troubled kids play Call of Duty, and like military hardware? I like a little COD myself. How many troubled kids have shrinks? If she thought there was a 1% chance of this happening she would have not risked her life having guns around him. She died because of it. You can not arrest someone that has never committed a crime. What percentage of children that have shrinks, and play violent video games actually shoot people? It's a pretty good gamble that it isn't going to happen. It is so rare that it makes national and worldwide news when it does. But when they do, the only thing that can keep the body count down is to have an opposing force in place, whether it be guards, or armed citizens. Otherwise, we have to wait till the only guy with a gun in the place gets tired of killing people.

Grapesoda · 12-28-2012, 05:56 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rochard

No, they can't put guards into the schools "next month". Don't get me wrong, I wouldn't mind seeing it - two to four guards per school.

But long before you can make it happen you have to answer a lot of questions - such as who is going to pay for this. I read someplace it would cost $5billion just for California alone. Then you need to figure out who is going to train them, what qualifications are needed - heaven forbid should some school district hire some pedo or vet with mental issues, what weapons will be needed, etc etc....

I would imagine each local police department could hire two or three full time officers per school....

But still, is that the solution? We are talking about public schools here - The general public has full access to them, and most of us attend events at schools on a regular basis. We know the school layouts and Google Maps doesn't much either. Armed guards in schools is going to cost billions, will not prevent attacks, and will leave churches, movies, shopping malls, and government buildings wide open. This is only a small part of the solution - and it will cost a lot of money.

Armed guards in schools is a step we should take. We should also think about arming the mall cops too. But we need to do so much more, including creating a better mental health system and more checks and security features on gun ownership over all.

actually the general public doesn't have full access to schools. my daughter high school was fenced with a guard. when I went on campus I had to go the office and check in.... I was not able to wonder around at will. and a few guards is a quicker fix, and cheaper than tracking down psychopaths or trying to take guns away from people. either as a nation we are serious about safety in schools or it's just political bullshit and great news drama

Grapesoda · 12-28-2012, 05:58 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rochard

This is an example of a new law we should create:

Authorities have charged a woman for allegedly providing a convicted killer with the Bushmaster AR-15 assault rifle he used when he ambushed four volunteer firefighters and an off-duty cop at a fire scene in upstate New York on Christmas Eve, federal prosecutors said.

Dawn Nguyen, 24, was arrested today after allegedly making an illegal purchase of the weapon used by William Spengler, 62, who set a house and car on fire in Webster, N.Y., the morning of Dec. 24, then shot dead two firemen and himself.

(source)

Very simple law - if your handgun is used during a crime, you are held liable for it, and if found guilty it's a felony with a minimum of ten years in prison. Make this a federal law, make sure that everyone purchases a firearm knows and understands it....

Lock down the dealings at gun shows, and require a mental health check to purchase a firearm and now we are talking!

works for me

Grapesoda · 12-28-2012, 06:02 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by notinmybackyard

My feelings are irrelevant the simple fact is that I wrote what I see based on my experiences.

Therefore if the people of the United States can not smarten up and turn away from their culture of war.
I think the only solution is to prevent americans from leaving their nation and let them go about killing themselves off. So if you can not clean up your social problems I hope you make more guns and buy more guns and get on with the job of killing each other.

Because less warmongers equals more peace for the rest of the world.

works for me as well... think Africans and South Americans and East Asians and Ukrainians, and Middle Easterners, and Indians, and Pakistanis, and well.... I work on this list for hours ... should stay home as well? I'm sorry I hadn't realized ... about you...

Grapesoda · 12-28-2012, 06:04 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by sandman!

Most NRA members have no problem with laws to keep guns away from mentally ill people

but everyone has a crazy cousin thats just not right and 99.9% of these people never do anything violent so where do you draw the line ?

I wouldn't be surprised if no members of the NRA ever went on a killing spree

Rochard · 12-28-2012, 10:29 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by bronco67

My wife(a teacher) just got an email...

A portion of the supply budget is being re-directed towards armed security for every school in our city. It'll be for 2 months, and after that they'll decide if they make it permanent.

I'm all for it. Arming teachers is just the dumbest fucking idea I've ever heard -- but having a security professional on the grounds would be enough to deter a mass murderer, because if we're totally honest we know those people are cowards who don't want to get into an exchange of gunfire. They want the softest target possible.

It's the equivalent of having an air marshall. Maybe they wouldn't be able to stop an intruder, but they probably won't show up in the first place.

They already cut PE and after school sports, what else will they cut to afford this?

Rochard · 12-28-2012, 10:50 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Grapesoda

actually the general public doesn't have full access to schools. my daughter high school was fenced with a guard. when I went on campus I had to go the office and check in.... I was not able to wonder around at will. and a few guards is a quicker fix, and cheaper than tracking down psychopaths or trying to take guns away from people. either as a nation we are serious about safety in schools or it's just political bullshit and great news drama

The general public has full access to the local schools. Local schools host tons of events; The school up the street where my kid used to go to has a church that uses the gym on Sunday mornings.

My kid is in grade school, but yet I know the layout of the high school by heart. I've attended meetings in the library, the small (old) gym, and the band room. My kid has given choir performances in the new gym, and last week we had to turn in our fund raising money to some stranger in the teacher's lounge. I also spent a Saturday afternoon painting over graffiti at the high school. I went to every home football game on Friday nights; On Saturdays the entire football field, the grounds, the snack bar, and the security is controlled by my wife who runs the local youth sports league. During a football game there are three points of access - the front gate and the side gate for everyone, and the back gate for staff members - all of which are manned by volunteers filling up their volunteer hours. If you don't want to pay to get into the football game, you just park in the main parking lot, walk around the new gym, and your in - no problem.

I can tell you the same about my kid's prior school too, although during the day they lock up the school. Then again, any jackass can pop the curb and park their car next to the fence to gain access.

I can tell you the same about my kid's current school. Three points of access up front including a chain link fence gate for cars, but the back gate is the worst - The kids do PE on the track and the lower sports fields which means the back gate is always open.

This kid live in that town for years. He's been to that school dozens of times. If it wasn't for some sports league awards ceremony or some after school event or sports practice, then maybe some kind of "fall festival" or even open house when he went with a friend.

Schools are soft targets. They can put up fences all they want and try to restrict access, but anyone can get over those fences easily.

All I'm saying is securing a school is going to very difficult. It's not an airport or courthouse where access is extremely limited; Most of us know all about our local schools and have total access after hours.

Rochard · 12-28-2012, 11:05 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MakingItPay

You can use hindsight to say these things, but I have to believe if she thought he would use guns on others, she would not have had them around. Remember, he shot her in the face four times. Let's put her in jail for not knowing in advance that her baby would do such a thing. But how many troubled kids play Call of Duty, and like military hardware? I like a little COD myself. How many troubled kids have shrinks? If she thought there was a 1% chance of this happening she would have not risked her life having guns around him. She died because of it. You can not arrest someone that has never committed a crime. What percentage of children that have shrinks, and play violent video games actually shoot people? It's a pretty good gamble that it isn't going to happen. It is so rare that it makes national and worldwide news when it does. But when they do, the only thing that can keep the body count down is to have an opposing force in place, whether it be guards, or armed citizens. Otherwise, we have to wait till the only guy with a gun in the place gets tired of killing people.

But how could she not have seen this coming?

The kid checks all of the boxes of being a potential problem. He was a loner in school, not well liked, mediocre in school, had mental health issues to the point where he had a psychiatrist assigned to him in high school, he flunked out of college, didn't have a job, and locked himself up playing violent video games while surrounded by posters of firearms and military hardware.

A week before the shooting she was quoted as saying "I'm losing him". The very moment the kid was seeing the psychiatrist she should have said "Gee, maybe having firearms in the house isn't such a good idea".

Was she guilty of a crime? I have no idea. She enabled her son to have access to an assault rifle that killed twenty kids. If she didn't have firearms in the house, those kids would be alive today. You tell me if she's guilty or not.

What's even worse... This kid could have gone out and legally purchased a firearm. Maybe they have an age restriction in CT, but he would have passed a background check with no problem. That's fucking scary.

GrantMercury · 12-28-2012, 11:23 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by **********

Unfortunately, I can see that coming not too far down the road.

Gun Lovers:

Arming Teachers is INSANE.
Placing Armed guards at every school is INSANE!
Selling ridiculous firearms to people without proper registration is INSANE!
Making super-sized magazines available is INSANE!!!!!!

It's ok if you are a gun lover - I get it - everyone gets it. This is not the point. What is the point is that the NRA is filling you with fear and throws around words like Freedoms and second amendment rights, and is SELLING YOU on BUYING MORE GUNS. The NRA is just as responsible for the death of those poor kids as the shooter is, especially after the offensive comments that the NRA spokesperson made last week.

QTF.

MakingItPay · 12-29-2012, 08:02 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rochard

But how could she not have seen this coming?

The kid checks all of the boxes of being a potential problem. He was a loner in school, not well liked, mediocre in school, had mental health issues to the point where he had a psychiatrist assigned to him in high school, he flunked out of college, didn't have a job, and locked himself up playing violent video games while surrounded by posters of firearms and military hardware.

A week before the shooting she was quoted as saying "I'm losing him". The very moment the kid was seeing the psychiatrist she should have said "Gee, maybe having firearms in the house isn't such a good idea".

Was she guilty of a crime? I have no idea. She enabled her son to have access to an assault rifle that killed twenty kids. If she didn't have firearms in the house, those kids would be alive today. You tell me if she's guilty or not.

What's even worse... This kid could have gone out and legally purchased a firearm. Maybe they have an age restriction in CT, but he would have passed a background check with no problem. That's fucking scary.

She had no idea that he would do what he did. Neither did his Psychiatrist. You make my point that you can't stop a crazy person from doing damage before they do it. Only thing you can do is stop them as quickly as possible. He tried to buy a gun btw, and was rejected. But even if he had bought it. He was not a criminal until he did what he did. But thanks to gun free zones, he was able to do it unopposed. When a mom says I'm losing him, do you really think that means he will go homicidal? The odds against someone doing what he did are astronomical. More people win lotteries than do this. It is nice to get inflamed and want to try to make laws to fix things I guess, but there were plenty of laws to stop him. But laws don't stop criminals. They just help put them away after the crime is already done.

MakingItPay · 12-29-2012, 08:08 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by **********

Unfortunately, I can see that coming not too far down the road.

Gun Lovers:

Arming Teachers is INSANE.
Placing Armed guards at every school is INSANE!
Selling ridiculous firearms to people without proper registration is INSANE!
Making super-sized magazines available is INSANE!!!!!!

It's ok if you are a gun lover - I get it - everyone gets it. This is not the point. What is the point is that the NRA is filling you with fear and throws around words like Freedoms and second amendment rights, and is SELLING YOU on BUYING MORE GUNS. The NRA is just as responsible for the death of those poor kids as the shooter is, especially after the offensive comments that the NRA spokesperson made last week.

That sounds like a great argument. Problem is, the President's kids go to a school with armed guards in the double digits, and on top of that the secret service (armed guards) is there. So obviously the elites don't think it makes their kids less protected. But, the President does agree that our kids shouldn't have armed guards. The NRA would have liked the teachers to be allowed to protect themselves, but the laws were against them. So, the crazed killer picked the obvious soft target, and went unopposed. You will find "Gun Free Zones" are where these guys strike. The NRA does not want these Zones.

Grapesoda · 12-29-2012, 08:20 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rochard

But how could she not have seen this coming?

The kid checks all of the boxes of being a potential problem. He was a loner in school, not well liked, mediocre in school, had mental health issues to the point where he had a psychiatrist assigned to him in high school, he flunked out of college, didn't have a job, and locked himself up playing violent video games while surrounded by posters of firearms and military hardware.

A week before the shooting she was quoted as saying "I'm losing him". The very moment the kid was seeing the psychiatrist she should have said "Gee, maybe having firearms in the house isn't such a good idea".

Was she guilty of a crime? I have no idea. She enabled her son to have access to an assault rifle that killed twenty kids. If she didn't have firearms in the house, those kids would be alive today. You tell me if she's guilty or not.

What's even worse... This kid could have gone out and legally purchased a firearm. Maybe they have an age restriction in CT, but he would have passed a background check with no problem. That's fucking scary.

the high schools in the palm desert are like forts Richard, in fact my ex wife is a 6th grade teacher out there, her cars was fucked up by shotgun blast in the parking lot during a 'fight' between the 12 years old gangbangers...

Grapesoda · 12-29-2012, 08:21 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MakingItPay

That sounds like a great argument. Problem is, the President's kids go to a school with armed guards in the double digits, and on top of that the secret service (armed guards) is there. So obviously the elites don't think it makes their kids less protected. But, the President does agree that our kids shouldn't have armed guards. The NRA would have liked the teachers to be allowed to protect themselves, but the laws were against them. So, the crazed killer picked the obvious soft target, and went unopposed. You will find "Gun Free Zones" are where these guys strike. The NRA does not want these Zones.

yes nuts always go for the soft targets, and so do criminals

notinmybackyard · 12-29-2012, 08:29 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Grapesoda

works for me as well... think Africans and South Americans and East Asians and Ukrainians, and Middle Easterners, and Indians, and Pakistanis, and well.... I work on this list for hours ... should stay home as well? I'm sorry I hadn't realized ... about you...

Despite being very good, english is not my first language and I assume that I did not effectively communicate my opinion.

I think that if the citizens are unable (or not willing) to seriously address their social problems with anything other than short sighted quick fix responses. Then a giant wall should be built around the entire United States to turn it into a massive prison to keep all the United States citizens inside. Furthermore any american citizen not currently living in the United States should deported back to the United States.

Then when all the people of the United States are safely behind the "wall". They can hurry up and finish killing each other.

The culture of the United States is one of war. The average american appears to glorify violence. And regardless of the nature of any problem confronting their society, the first and most popular response is to confront situation with more violence.

Rochard · 12-30-2012, 12:30 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MakingItPay

She had no idea that he would do what he did. Neither did his Psychiatrist. You make my point that you can't stop a crazy person from doing damage before they do it. Only thing you can do is stop them as quickly as possible. He tried to buy a gun btw, and was rejected. But even if he had bought it. He was not a criminal until he did what he did. But thanks to gun free zones, he was able to do it unopposed. When a mom says I'm losing him, do you really think that means he will go homicidal? The odds against someone doing what he did are astronomical. More people win lotteries than do this. It is nice to get inflamed and want to try to make laws to fix things I guess, but there were plenty of laws to stop him. But laws don't stop criminals. They just help put them away after the crime is already done.

But why didn't she know there was a possibility he was going to go off the deep end and kill people? He ticked plenty of the boxes...

- a loner in school
- was assigned a shrink in high school
- obsessed with firearms and violent video games
- dropped out of college and unemployed

How could she NOT see this?

My friend I talk about is 48, diabetic, mentally stuck at age 16 due to multiple brain surgeries, divorced twice, has two kids in a foreign country that barely know him, hasn't gotten laid in twenty years, is former military, on more medication than anyone I've never met, and he's armed with an AR15. (If that's not enough he worked at the post office and has a massive grudge against them too!) There is nothing any of us can do - he can legally own a firearm and it's perfectly legal. He's the perfect candidate to go off into the deep end and kill people, yet there is not a single law in place to prevent this....

Rochard · 12-30-2012, 12:40 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Grapesoda

the high schools in the palm desert are like forts Richard, in fact my ex wife is a 6th grade teacher out there, her cars was fucked up by shotgun blast in the parking lot during a 'fight' between the 12 years old gangbangers...

Like a fort how? My kid calls their school a prison - and it looks like it with a turret and huge metal fence around it. The other side has a chain link fence.

Palm Desert High School (On Aztec road) has a huge football field behind it. I'm guessing that too is surrounded by a chain link fence - most schools are. That's very secure, right? I mean, it's not like any 12 year old girl can't scale a chain link fence, right? (Nice pool, btw.)

And while I'm talking about the high school in your home town, that's a huge freaking school. How many armed guards do you think it will take to cover all of that? Three? Six?

I'm sorry about no matter what our schools are soft targets. Anyone can pull up and start firing shoots. If they can't get in during school hours, all they need to do is show up at 7:45am when the majority of the kids are arriving.

12-28-2012, 04:01 PM	#71
Rochard Jägermeister Test Pilot Industry Role: Join Date: Dec 2001 Location: NORCAL Posts: 73,800	This is an example of a new law we should create: Authorities have charged a woman for allegedly providing a convicted killer with the Bushmaster AR-15 assault rifle he used when he ambushed four volunteer firefighters and an off-duty cop at a fire scene in upstate New York on Christmas Eve, federal prosecutors said. Dawn Nguyen, 24, was arrested today after allegedly making an illegal purchase of the weapon used by William Spengler, 62, who set a house and car on fire in Webster, N.Y., the morning of Dec. 24, then shot dead two firemen and himself. (source) Very simple law - if your handgun is used during a crime, you are held liable for it, and if found guilty it's a felony with a minimum of ten years in prison. Make this a federal law, make sure that everyone purchases a firearm knows and understands it.... Lock down the dealings at gun shows, and require a mental health check to purchase a firearm and now we are talking! __________________ “The choice is no longer between right or left. The choice is between normal and crazy.” - Sarah Huckabee Sanders YNOT MAIL \| THE BEST ADULT MAILING SOLUTION

12-28-2012, 05:55 PM	#80
bronco67 Too lazy to set a custom title Join Date: Dec 2006 Posts: 29,032	My wife(a teacher) just got an email... A portion of the supply budget is being re-directed towards armed security for every school in our city. It'll be for 2 months, and after that they'll decide if they make it permanent. I'm all for it. Arming teachers is just the dumbest fucking idea I've ever heard -- but having a security professional on the grounds would be enough to deter a mass murderer, because if we're totally honest we know those people are cowards who don't want to get into an exchange of gunfire. They want the softest target possible. It's the equivalent of having an air marshall. Maybe they wouldn't be able to stop an intruder, but they probably won't show up in the first place. __________________ Last edited by bronco67; 12-28-2012 at 05:56 PM..

12-28-2012, 08:59 AM	#52
SuckOnThis So Fucking Banned Join Date: Oct 2003 Location: In my head Posts: 6,844	We need to arm the cops! Gunman dead after shooting 3 cops at N.J. police station http://usnews.nbcnews.com/_news/2012...e-station?lite

12-28-2012, 03:45 PM	#69
tony286 lurker Industry Role: Join Date: Aug 2002 Location: atlanta Posts: 57,021	To get cold medicine I have give id and if I buy alot of it from different places. I will get a knock on my door. But 6000 rounds no questions asked.